Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

Villa05

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120450880#Comment_120450880

Again aim to the market that suits your time horizon.

Villa05

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120451191#Comment_120451191

What regulations would block this strategy?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120451194#Comment_120451194

The aim though is to attract investors into the market, not just those who see it as a 20 year investment.

It will also be a consideration to prospective LLs that irrespective of whether they sell in 1 yr or 20yrs, the issue with owner-occupiers being excluded from the sale will not attract small investors.

dumb_parade

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120451206#Comment_120451206

As I said the regulations are not stable. Up until 7 days ago a tenant could not be evicted, and until Europe stepped a few days ago the government were trying to meddle more in the short term letting market. I sold my rental in March, because I was fed up with all the meddling, I had picked tenants that I knew wouldn't stay long term (3 tenancies in 6 years) and it worked out for me, but I still wasn't taking the risk of another tenancy on as I didn't trust that regulations had any balance in protecting landlords.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120451206#Comment_120451206

C’mon, don’t act as if you don’t know. Part 4 rights mean that the LL cannot move students out at the end of the academic year, and third level colleges are located in areas with more than 5k people so that even if the watered down legislation on short let’s is introduced, pp would be needed for short let’s, and likely denied.

You are the most regular poster here, it is inconceivable that you wouldn’t know the legislation that would block an owner aiming for the student market so that short letting is possible during the summer. The only investors who get to do that are possibly the institutional investors who buy/build whole student developments.

SwimClub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120451180#Comment_120451180

I don't think tenants that only want to commit to a short rental are the exception in Ireland, they are more the rule and always have been.

People want to buy here rather than rent. If that is going to change it is going to take a long time and the first step is to get new long term supply before getting rid of the existing shorter term supply.

If you offer someone out of college starting a new job that moves to Dublin a 10 year lease and they have to commit to that they will say no thanks, they want to commit for around 2 years probably.

Likewise someone experienced moving here for work, wants the option to buy in a year or two.

Lots of families moving look to rent for a year or two before picking somewhere to buy.

Landlords are already aiming their service to their time horizon.

dontmindme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120451283#Comment_120451283

Well if that's the argument then what we need is a no-fault eviction ban - once you pay and are a good tenant then you have the property on a yearly basis for as many years as you want. Landlord wants to sell - either sells as a going concern with tenants in situ, or else waits for a break in the lease...thems the choices.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120451366#Comment_120451366

How can an investor resist such an appealing prospect.

Villa05

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120451247#Comment_120451247

I have no involvement in the property sector so was not aware that regulations prevented LL's from approaching a college desperately seeking accomodation for students and offering their property for academic year and then allowing the owner stl for summer months.

It seemed to work well 20 years ago before Airbnb was ever heard of

Seems like an easy win to canvass and campaign for, as it would be the most efficient use of property

dontmindme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120451380#Comment_120451380

They purchase the business like they do any other business and decide if they can make a profit on it, I'm not sure what you're getting at?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120451387#Comment_120451387

The rental sector is not like any other business.

SwimClub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120451366#Comment_120451366

Who's we? I don't know how you got there from what I wrote.

Those aren't the choices, landlords have the right to end a lease and sell, they are doing that in their droves.

Thousands of them are exercising that choice every month and that is going to continue.

According to estate agent reports the majority of properties on the market are ex rentals and the majority of buyers are first time buyers.

You can't stop people from exercising their property rights, obviously they did for a while and would love to continue but they have been given legal advice and a ruling against them would cost the state an an absolute fortune in claims by anyone who was prevented from selling.

mcsean2163

If landlords are exiting that is fine.

The state should build and rent apartments and social housing for those who need. Small landlords that want to sweat an asset but without giving tenants reasonable rights shouldn't really be in the market.

Laws should be brought making it easy to evict troublesome tenants. <-- snip -->. REIT's should be obliged to pay tax in Ireland. Planning for private estates should be given on the condition they are not sold to funds, etc.

It all seems fairly straightforward and easy to resolve. Implement above and crisis over in 3 years.

-- Edited --

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120452033#Comment_120452033

What?

LLs exiting very obviously contracts supply, more people homeless, more people competing for limited houses available for sale.

Tenants have more than reasonable rights, in fact the reason LLs are leaving is because they have so many rights and LLs have so few.

How do you propose to slow non-EU immigration without EU approval, and I suspect you will find that EU citizens coming to Ireland and lack of emigration of Irish people has a greater effect.

The REITs bit I agree with, but bear in mind, without the REITs/institutional investors providing forward financing, a lot of developments would not have been built and there would be far less rental accommodation.

herbalplants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120452129#Comment_120452129

What he said was..... Non EU immigration to be slowed down.... Not EU immigration.

Yes that should be possible and should be in plan already.

All this non sense that jobs cannot be filled up by eu citizens is garbage, in my opinion. Most Non eu getting a job in Ireland then request for their family to join them.... I know of few cases and where are all these houses coming from. These particular ones don't have special skills that cannot be found in Ireland.

L1011

Read the warnings in Post 1 before continuing down the immigration rabbit-hole again.

Edit: Sorry, meant to send as PM rather than post.

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120451366#Comment_120451366

You forgot an important detail. A no-fault eviction ban might be OK if rents were not so heavily regulated. An eviction ban with rents effectively frozen well below market rates is/was a sure way of promoting mass exodus of landlords and a lower supply of rental properties.

ingo1984

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120456807#Comment_120456807

Pretty much correct. For what you pay in Dublin for what you get in terms of culture, heritage, infrastructure, quality of life, junkie free streets. It's a rip off. I say that having grown up and spending 30 years living in Dublin before moving away 7 years ago.

Villa05

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120456807#Comment_120456807

You know how the unions play this, roll out the worst affected, pay rises for all teachers with consequential effects on teacher pensions. Teachers on pensions earn more than some of those actually doing the job

Weak government plays along. Massive cost inhibiting employment of further teachers where needed. House prices continue to be driven up until the whole thing blows up again

This all happened in the noughties populist "solutions" that make the problem worse and spreads the issues nationwide.

Villa05

If only they had such foresight when they were tasked with auditing the banks before the great financial crash and advising clients on their property portfolios

https://www.businesspost.ie/article/pwc-warns-clients-to-sell-assets-before-sinn-fein-gets-into-power/?cx_testId=1&cx_testVariant=cx_1&cx_artPos=3&cx_experienceId=EXWCU17AYCAW#cxrecs_s

Guildenstern

Reading the PwC story, I am reminded of when I was in London 30 years ago, and a resurgent Labour Party under Blair was rising in the ranks against the Tories who after more than a decade in power were giving the newspapers almost weekly examples of Tory sleaze. It was all about how the incoming socialists would strip you off your assets. All very reds in the bed stuff.

In all honesty, if you are so feckin' thick to assume SF will be so radical, you probably don't deserve to keep your assets in the first place. The article comes with the standard FG rent a quote loon offering words of wisdom. This time it's Peter Burke. If your only argument is to have to resort to scare tactics..................

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120457541#Comment_120457541

When you say “assume”, are you saying PwC/investors should ignore what SF have promised to do if elected?

Villa05

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120457597#Comment_120457597

Promoting a rush to the exits is the ultimate wealth destruction.

What exactly have SF promised? I'm pretty sure they know they will need landlords to help in easing housing issues

dontmindme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120457418#Comment_120457418

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120457597#Comment_120457597

The PwC advice note also suggests that clients could “avail of reliefs” to blunt the impact of Sinn Féin’s tax policies. Those mentioned include business property relief, retirement relief, entrepreneur relief, agricultural relief and pension lump sums. All these tax reliefs could potentially be used to reduce a person’s tax bill.

J_1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120457418#Comment_120457418

This is such nonsense.

all left wing loons are pretty much chained by eu law/eu commission.

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120457541#Comment_120457541

If SF have rather extreme left radical policy proposals then PwC are dead right to warn clients. If SF turn out to be moderate, as you seem to hint, then SF are lying when to peddle radical policies.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120457541#Comment_120457541

Labour under Tony Blair were to the right of FG here so it’s hardly a solid analogy

amacca

In fairness you do suspect a large chunk of people who vote for sinn fein might be of the free money for life type....I'd be surprised if they didn't pander more to them and some sort of wealth transfer wasn't made more possible.

Guildenstern

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120458158#Comment_120458158

On social policy I'd have to disagree. I can only use my own experiences working in the social sector then in London. The difference between the then new government and its policy initiatives from 1997 onwards compared to what the Tories were offering just prior to that, was enormous. This was a much more traditional and historic left/right split than what has transpired now and a lot easier to separate the two political philosophies.