Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118523505#Comment_118523505

I am not sure if you would buy any new 3 bed semi house in Limerick for that. As far as I know present phases are some out and new phases will be more expensive.

snow_bunny

Abbey Gate Mungret is available, 299k for 3 bed terrace, my cousin is buying there.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118523705#Comment_118523705

That is a terrace. Is it the existing phase in that he will be in the house in the next 3-4 months. The present phase of development's are virtually sold out in Limerick. Next phases will be dearer is my understanding. I would expect a semi to be the bones of 40-50k more than a terrace

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118522960#Comment_118522960

There is often no hard and fast rules on bidding. Waiting can indicate indecision and encourage counter bidding. It can work the other way as well if you are being puffed, there is little of that around at present.

When the a bidder drop from 10 to 5k bids a trick is to counter with a 10k bid to indicate you are going nowhere sometimes it frighten's off a counter bid. However it can also indicate weakness as you may be trying to reach a price point. It's an education to sit down and watch a few online BidX auctions.

Bidding is an art in itself. However it can also be trying to get to a price point where a vendor will sell

kneejerk

I'm convinced we're in bubble territory now. Best off leave it. Buying at the peak is painful

Thargor

I'd agree in terms of share prices but what's going to reduce prices in Ireland? Demand completely outstrips supply and there are desperate cash buyers everywhere. Any dip will be bought up and hardly anyone is selling now, they're hardly going to start dumping houses on the market if prices drop.

combat14

Teacher, solicitor, tech worker: What kind of home can they buy?

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/teacher-solicitor-tech-worker-what-kind-of-home-can-they-buy-1.4778418

the answer appears to be sweet feck all .. in dublin anyway.. even the tech worker on €175k appears to struggle to buy according to this article .. unreal!!!

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524080#Comment_118524080

Not as many as there was twelve months ago

Amadan Dubh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118517121#Comment_118517121

Germany has been experiencing a massive credit-fuelled housing boom the last decade. It is so easy to get a mortgage and they often have no deposit requirements so one can obtain 100% mortgages. I would not view the purchasing market in Germany as sustainable!

To bring this back to Irish property; look at the cost of living comparison between Munich and Ireland https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Ireland&country2=Germany&city1=Dublin&city2=Munich&tracking=getDispatchComparison

Ignoring the less tangible advantages and disadvantages of Dublin versus Munich (for me I don't think Dublin can hold a candle to Munich), what is stark is the average rent compared to average salary between Dublin and Munich;

____________________________________Dublin_______Munich

Apartment (1 bedroom) in City Centre______1,701.43 €____1,297.88 €______-23.72 %

Apartment (1 bedroom) Outside of Centre___1,465.62 €____1,010.94 €______-31.02 %

Apartment (3 bedrooms) in City Centre______2,966.67 €____2,327.74 €______-21.54 %

Apartment (3 bedrooms) Outside of Centre___2,297.12 €____1,794.24 €______-21.89 %

Average Monthly Net Salary (After Tax)______3,047.01€_____3,123.62 €_______+2.51 %

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524740#Comment_118524740

Why single out Munich as a comparison, Try London, Paris, New York , Sydney and see where Dublin is. Regardless of your thoughts of how good bad or ugly Dublin it is seen as somewhere that is desirable to live in and this is a fact and its not only in Ireland but also out side of Ireland as well. There is no getting around paying top dollar for areas that are in high demand. If your looking to live somewhere in Europe and your an English speaker there are not many countries with English as their first language in the EU.

iColdFusion

What are peoples thoughts on this? Scheme will potentially have a lot of terms and conditions attached to it and ive seen some negativity about it not really working in real life as these properties aren't for sale and banks don't want to lend on them but I think its a good idea, anything that gets these crappy buildings back into use and alleviates demand is a good idea to me!

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40776951.html

cnocbui

Athens is 248% cheaper than Dublin for renting and 215% cheaper for buying an appartment in the city centre. The cost of living in Dublin is nearly 80% more than Athens. How hard is it to learn Greek? The alphabet looks like it would take some getting used to. ;-)

But then I read stories of Greek pensioners retiring to Bulgaria - what a world!

L1011

Something can't be over 100% cheaper, as 100% cheaper is zero - have you just reversed a 'dearer than' calculation? As percentages don't work that way.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524846#Comment_118524846

Badly needed, as particularly outside of cities in small and some large towns, the amount of vacant units in good locations is staggering. But since owners are seldom penalised for holding these, they have no urgency to sell.

Without proper, enforced vacant unit taxes, this measure will likely just inflate prices for vacant units. If someone has held onto a vacant unit for this long, its obviously not worth their while selling. That will only change if they either are penalised for holding and not using vacant units, or if asking prices increase substantially. This grant seems to do the latter.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524903#Comment_118524903

If you think Dublin is full of junkies, anti social behaviour and other undesirables, you wouldn't want to live in Athens!

DataDude

Seems to be a consensus forming in NZ that prices are about to start falling. When mortgage brokers are predicting 10% annual drops, reality might be much worse.

All five major banks now expect house prices to fall in 2022 | interest.co.nz

2022 will bring 'best chance of getting a property bargain in years' | Stuff.co.nz

Similar story in Australia.

Sydney, Melbourne house prices: Omicron effect sees uncertainty in market | news.com.au — Australia’s leading news site

China property market also seems ready to implode as has been widely reported

Very specific factors at play in each country which are not at all present here (and affordability is so so much worse in those countries than here), but as we've seen over last while and as many here have pointed out - global property markets in developed world are highly correlated so will be interesting to watch!

We're finally moving into our place. Was wondering if finally "getting on the ladder" would make me suddenly want prices to rise. Not yet anyway - maybe gone from wanting and all out collapse to a slow bleeding of -5% p.a. for a number of years to get things back to a healthier place!

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118525005#Comment_118525005

I know that, I was just being lazy and speaking in a vernacular. Terminological precision wouldn't alter the underlying meaning which I suspect was conveyed.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118525181#Comment_118525181

That is true, but I wouldn't want to live 'in' a lot of cities, I much prefer a more secluded rural Idyll. I live near stab city, and I am yet to witness a stabbing.

In terms of negative social elements, I wouldn't want to live in Dublin, Athens or London, but there doesn't seem to be much in it between Athens and Dublin: https://www.numbeo.com/crime/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Ireland&country2=Greece&city1=Dublin&city2=Athens&tracking=getDispatchComparison

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118525195#Comment_118525195

Music to my ears :-)

China is about to implode:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffO3VxzQReM

snow_bunny

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118523830#Comment_118523830

Yeah, speaking of, there's a terraced house in King's Island in Limerick up for 200k last week, apparently current bidding is at over 270k...That's part of "the Island", around the corner and on route to and from St.Mary's Park.

Amadan Dubh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524802#Comment_118524802

I singled out Munich because the poster posted about Munich. Why did they single out an apartment in Munich is probably what you are asking but I'll let them respond to you.

On the English speaking point, we have had a lot of immigration to Ireland to take up MNC jobs particularly in tech but they haven't come here to do jobs with English as the language. They are coming to Dublin to speak their native language and service their own market. This seems very odd to me, that for example a French person comes to Ireland to work in a sales role with a tech company, speaking French and servicing the French market. This gravy train has likely collapsed due to covid and the exodus of MNC workers back to their home European countries and long term WFH or relocation policies of the big tech MNCs. Those looking to come to Ireland to learn English seem to be more along the lines of non-Europeans on student visas who of course can't afford the Dublin rents so cram into shared bedroom places - that isn't sustainable and won't justify current rents let alone further increases. We need the well paid immigrants to sustain our housing costs at these levels once the State withdraws its astronomical supports - I don't think this is guaranteed (for example, tik tok aiming to take on office space for 2500 workers in Dublin is just not going to work in this year or next year given the dearth in rentals available to house workers).

DataDude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118525282#Comment_118525282

I could never get my head around how a market where house prices are 50x income can sustain itself for any length of time!

Amadan Dubh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524903#Comment_118524903

If I was practically mortgage free and late 50s/early 60s I'd have the house sold and be off abroad with an early retirement - not to Athens mind you, somewhere a bit more West like Spain, Portugal or Italy. It could not be a better time to take advantage of the current situation and retire early if you were in this enviable position.

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118525743#Comment_118525743

so you must be spending all your time in the airport asking everyone coming to live in Ireland what they are going to be working at and apparently none or very few will be speaking English whilst doing their job? I call horsesh1t on that.

Villa05

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118525282#Comment_118525282

Hillaroius stuff

One bubble blower calling out another bubble blower in a video riddled with amazon get rich quick scams

Mother of God!

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/06/sell-off-in-cathie-woods-ark-innovation-fund-reached-48percent-at-low-point-thursday.html

Amadan Dubh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118525888#Comment_118525888

I can do desk research on this topic by going on jobs websites, searching for large tech MNCs and what jobs they have available to get an indication. Combined with anecdotal experience of knowing people who work in the large MNCs I can give a reasonably informed opinion that a significant number of people who come here to do well paid jobs in MNCs from other European countries are working in their own language and servicing their home market. These are the immigrants our rental market needs to sustain the rents on offer, not the students from South America and India happy to slum it up in hostel-style rentals; and the pandemic has potentially lead to our housing costs looking this gift horse (i.e. well paid, EU immigrants) in the mouth and the delayed return to the office/long-term WFH/ability to request a move to another EU office is all part of the arse falling out of the market that will manifest in the next 12 months (assuming no more BS with covid restrictions, in which case I will say 12 months + whenever covid restrictions finally end).

Amadan Dubh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118525934#Comment_118525934

Wood, like Musk, is a symptom of the euphoria in the markets the past few years where people buy into personalities more than anything else (people seem to think Musk is like some sort of Tony Stark character which would appear to explain his success in recent years with the movie franchise involving Tony Stark). In bubbles you get a lot of fraud and a lot of risk - Wood is an example of fraud I would say where she tries to nourish this almighty status but in reality she just invests in everything to do with tech and innovation; and just rode the Tesla wave with her investments. However, the last twelve months has seen a huge selloff among the rich and a conversion to cash, this should tell us something when the rich are the ones that are net sellers the past year.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118525934#Comment_118525934

Did you watch the video or are you just riffing off the apparent Cathy Woods linking? One needs to look at content vs medium.

fliball123

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118525868#Comment_118525868

That is the position I am in. Unfortunately I have been a year delayed as that's how long the sale of my holiday home/grazing property has so far taken. Meanwhile, it's less than comforting to see property prices have risen 12.8% since I agreed a price. I have to refrain from being greedy, but any more stuffing around by the borrowers feckless bank and their feckless lawyers and I'm going to lose it and might give in to greed.