Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

SmokyMo

Himnydownunder wrote: »

Thanks. Yeah it’s like there is some rationality in the U.K. People have some chance to make a go of life, if they are willing to live outside of London. I couldn’t believe it when I saw you could buy in Liverpool for £50k. It’s like we have a very insular view of property and property prices in Ireland. To think that it is “normal” to pay 500k for any half decent property in Dublin is lunacy.

From what I understand, even properties up North are quite cheaper and better quality?

Villa05

MacronvFrugals wrote:

The optics of this are shocking for the government, this keeps housing front and center.

A couple of this time it's different lately

The epicentre of the last crash were ninja (no income, no jobs, or assets) loans in the US for housing. These loans were packaged and sold to investment firms.

Yet here we have the state leasing some of the most expensive properties in the state to house similar folk and the state is one of the most indebted in the world.

In the last crash one of our saving graces was that risk was spread out over multiple individual buyers, so naturally many fought there way out

This time risk is concentrated on the state which has decades of financial incompetence and will need to be bailed out by the taxpayer yet again

MacronvFrugals

Listening to Fionnán Sheahan's podcast in the indo this morning they reckon its now time for the state to step in and start building


https://www.independent.ie/podcasts/infocus-childhoods-have-been-lost-and-a-generation-locked-out-of-home-ownership-40438647.html

timmyntc

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

Listening to Fionnán Sheahan's podcast in the indo this morning they reckon its now time for the state to step in and start building


https://www.independent.ie/podcasts/infocus-childhoods-have-been-lost-and-a-generation-locked-out-of-home-ownership-40438647.html

The time to start building was about 8 years ago!

Seriously though, the one issue a lot of people don't seem to realise is that we cannot borrow that capital required for house building on a large scale. EU fiscal rules won't allow it. (Unless we borrow it all right now while said rules are temporarily suspended)

yagan

Brantley Ambitious Sunburn wrote: »

I find it strange the government doesn't see apartments as "homes". Do they think single people want protection to by 3bed semis in the suburbs but not apartments that might better suit their needs ?

It's not that strange really when detached, semi and terrace housing makes up 96% of our stock according to this wiki.

Apartments are still the exception to the norm nationally although I'd be interested to see the ratio of houses to apartments within the M50.

jill_valentine

Brantley Ambitious Sunburn wrote: »

I find it strange the government doesn't see apartments as "homes". Do they think single people want protection to by 3bed semis in the suburbs but not apartments that might better suit their needs ?

We're not supposed to live in apartments, apparently, they're for storing money in.

Single people don't exist, you must mean workers. And shur we have to head into work, we don't need anywhere to live, that's for real people, they stopped making them about 45 years ago.

yagan

SmokyMo wrote: »

From what I understand, even properties up North are quite cheaper and better quality?

We lived in North England for a while and to be honest while rent was very cheap to here most of the stock was extremely badly insulated and just generally of a different era. This map illustrates the point very well.

I developed an aversion to red brick victoriana after that, although they tended to be more sound than the houses built in the 60s and 70s.

Brantley Ambitious Sunburn

Brantley Ambitious Sunburn wrote: »

I find it strange the government doesn't see apartments as "homes". Do they think single people want protection to by 3bed semis in the suburbs but not apartments that might better suit their needs ?

From commentary I've seen over a period of time this seems to be an issue across the entire breadth of Irish society, be it people, Govt or opposition.

Every single development that isn't 3-4 bed semi-ds gets the same "but but but this is no good for young families" commentary as if they are the only people that need to be housed.

Villa05

Brantley Ambitious Sunburn wrote:

I find it strange the government doesn't see apartments as "homes". Do they think single people want protection to by 3bed semis in the suburbs but not apartments that might better suit their needs ?

The lobbyists have the government's ear and suddenly apartments are apparently more expensive than houses, despite it being the opposite for decades. Nobody appears to be questioning the lobbyists gospel

Now is this because we need more apartments, smaller units therefore the industry decides let's up the price because this is where the money is with investment funds and a foolish government hovering up supply

Or is it because the industry recognises schmittels argument that we have an over supply of houses but many are under utilised
If the industry ups the price of apartments above the price of houses they kill the potential downsizer market.
This removes the threat of efficient use of property to solve the housing crisis. This will maintain the industry's stranglehold on supply and price

Nice cosy cartel

Mad_maxx

Himnydownunder wrote: »

Is it just me or does the U.K. give more options to buyers of houses? Quite major cities like Manchester and Liverpool offer quite good value for money. You would get a decent place in Liverpool for 100k or less. Lesser cities like Peterborough and the like offer good bang for your buck. There are viable affordable options when it comes to cities across the water, once you leave London. In Ireland when you go outside Dublin, cities like Cork, Limerick and Galway are all still quite expensive.

houses in England are more expensive than in Ireland even taking London out of the equation as far as i can see ?

Scotland and Wales as well as part of the North of England and midlands are cheaper

the South east of England and South West are more expensive than Ireland , rural parts of the South East and South West are considerably more expensive in England than in rural Ireland , granted those rural areas have much more to offer than here

point being , Ireland is not cheap but its incorrect to think its way out of line with other parts of Europe

L1011

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

Listening to Fionnán Sheahan's podcast in the indo this morning they reckon its now time for the state to step in and start building


https://www.independent.ie/podcasts/infocus-childhoods-have-been-lost-and-a-generation-locked-out-of-home-ownership-40438647.html

The time for the state to start building was, well, for them not to stop in late 1990s after FF came back to power.

cnocbui

Villa05 wrote: »

The lobbyists have the government's ear and suddenly apartments are apparently more expensive than houses, despite it being the opposite for decades. Nobody appears to be questioning the lobbyists gospel

Now is this because we need more apartments, smaller units therefore the industry decides let's up the price because this is where the money is with investment funds and a foolish government hovering up supply

Or is it because the industry recognises schmittels argument that we have an over supply of houses but many are under utilised
If the industry ups the price of apartments above the price of houses they kill the potential downsizer market.
This removes the threat of efficient use of property to solve the housing crisis. This will maintain the industry's stranglehold on supply and price

Nice cosy cartel

Apartments cost more to build:

Terraced Houses1,050 - 1,250 per m2
Semi Detached Houses1,100 - 1,350 per m2
Apartments (Build to Sell) 1,800 - 2,500 per m2
Apartments (Build to Rent)2,000 - 2,700 per m2

http://buildcost.ie/Buildcost-Construction-Cost-Guide-1st-Half-2019.pdf

DataDude

Could anyone get on board with this house?

https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/semi-detached-house-4-knockrabo-park-mount-anville-road-goatstown-dublin-14/3224589


Nice interior and decent location I guess, but Knocrabo is an incredibly soulless place and is about to get a whole lot busier when all the new apartments go in. If the first block is anything to go by (it's almost completely empty), the new phases are highly likely to end up as 25 year lease jobs. Find it mind boggling that a Semi-D with a putting green for a garden in that estate could fetch €1.4m+, which it probably will.
Would love to chat to whoever buys it to work out their thought process!

Himnydownunder

Mad_maxx wrote: »

houses in England are more expensive than in Ireland even taking London out of the equation as far as i can see ?

Scotland and Wales as well as part of the North of England and midlands are cheaper

the South east of England and South West are more expensive than Ireland , rural parts of the South East and South West are considerably more expensive in England than in rural Ireland , granted those rural areas have much more to offer than here

point being , Ireland is not cheap but its incorrect to think its way out of line with other parts of Europe

Point taken. But what I’m getting at is that in the U.K. you can live in a well serviced city outside of the capital quite cheaply. In Ireland every city is expensive including Kilkenny, I know I’ll open a can of worms by calling Kilkenny a city.

Browney7

DataDude wrote: »

Could anyone get on board with this house?

https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/semi-detached-house-4-knockrabo-park-mount-anville-road-goatstown-dublin-14/3224589


Nice interior and decent location I guess, but Knocrabo is an incredibly soulless place and is about to get a whole lot busier when all the new apartments go in. If the first block is anything to go by (it's almost completely empty), the new phases are highly likely to end up as 25 year lease jobs. Find it mind boggling that a Semi-D with a putting green for a garden in that estate could fetch €1.4m+, which it probably will.
Would love to chat to whoever buys it to work out their thought process!

Seems very expensive - you wouldn't want to be using public transport to get to the city.

Would agree with your conclusions - feels like a 1.1m house at most. What did they go for new?

Mad_maxx

Himnydownunder wrote: »

Point taken. But what I’m getting at is that in the U.K. you can live in a well serviced city outside of the capital quite cheaply. In Ireland every city is expensive including Kilkenny, I know I’ll open a can of worms by calling Kilkenny a city.

Kilkenny is a great spot


it depends what you mean by " expensive "

I think Limerick is still relatively good value , certainly far better than Galway , Waterford is not that expensive either and its big enough to provide services and entertainment to people , Limerick would have more job opportunities right now though

MacronvFrugals

DataDude wrote: »

Could anyone get on board with this house?

https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/semi-detached-house-4-knockrabo-park-mount-anville-road-goatstown-dublin-14/3224589


Nice interior and decent location I guess, but Knocrabo is an incredibly soulless place and is about to get a whole lot busier when all the new apartments go in. If the first block is anything to go by (it's almost completely empty), the new phases are highly likely to end up as 25 year lease jobs. Find it mind boggling that a Semi-D with a putting green for a garden in that estate could fetch €1.4m+, which it probably will.
Would love to chat to whoever buys it to work out their thought process!

The back garden is heartbreaking for that money!

awec

DataDude wrote: »

Could anyone get on board with this house?

https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/semi-detached-house-4-knockrabo-park-mount-anville-road-goatstown-dublin-14/3224589


Nice interior and decent location I guess, but Knocrabo is an incredibly soulless place and is about to get a whole lot busier when all the new apartments go in. If the first block is anything to go by (it's almost completely empty), the new phases are highly likely to end up as 25 year lease jobs. Find it mind boggling that a Semi-D with a putting green for a garden in that estate could fetch €1.4m+, which it probably will.
Would love to chat to whoever buys it to work out their thought process!

A bedroom and a shower room right beside the front door, weird layout.

Kitchen is IMO too small. It's like the kitchen you'd find in an apartment with an island added in.

DataDude

Browney7 wrote: »

Seems very expensive - you wouldn't want to be using public transport to get to the city.

Would agree with your conclusions - feels like a 1.1m house at most. What did they go for new?

Yeah I could understand it (but still wouldn't buy it) at the €1.0m - €1.1m range but at €1.4 it's completely bonkers.

They paid €1.2m for it in mid 2018 so I guess after putting in floors, "landscaping" etc. it probably stands them €1.3m or so.

Sort of house that looked like it would get crucified in 2019/2020 - doubt they'd have gotten €1.1 for it last year. Taking their opportunity to bail out with the COVID price bump and make a small profit.

Marius34

yagan wrote: »

I'm not going to argue with anyone about the nature of asset bubbles, they simply happen. Some people think Bitcoin is an asset!

We're seeing an asset inflation in our property market again, although the players and financial inputs are different, and thus how it unwinds will be different too.

When I warned family and friends against buying in 2006 I was told inflation would eat away the debt. And now the same argument is being trotted out again on this thread.

Hands off regulation seems like a rerun of the noughties up to the point when the Maynooth purchase stoked an existential crisis amongst the comfortable majority who now feared a cookoo fund would buy the house next door and move in the neighbours from hell.

Ok, I'm not arguing it. I simply arguing your initial comment. Someone who tried to see same current property market fundamentals with Credit crisis times, got totally wrong.

Villa05

cnocbui wrote:

Terraced Houses1,050 - 1,250 per m2 Semi Detached Houses1,100 - 1,350 per m2 Apartments (Build to Sell) 1,800 - 2,500 per m2 Apartments (Build to Rent)2,000 - 2,700 per m2[
Apartments cost more to build:

Thanks for the lobbyists gospel
Strange how they have increased as the required standards have reduced over the last 8 years

Ozark707

DataDude wrote: »

Yeah I could understand it (but still wouldn't buy it) at the €1.0m - €1.1m range but at €1.4 it's completely bonkers.

They paid €1.2m for it in mid 2018 so I guess after putting in floors, "landscaping" etc. it probably stands them €1.3m or so.

Sort of house that looked like it would get crucified in 2019/2020 - doubt they'd have gotten €1.1 for it last year. Taking their opportunity to bail out with the COVID price bump and make a small profit.

The apartments up there have been listed by Savills for a long time and it does not seem like they are able to move them. As has being pointed out on numerous occasions you would worry who would end up in them. Hopefully if you are forking out 1.4m you might take the time to look into this a bit.

Cal4567

I love the way this thread dances from critical appraisal of our housing predicament, then morphs into property supplement mode whenever someone puts up the latest (not very good value) million € pile, normally in the swankier parts of town, and then careers back to moaning about investment funds. It is as dysfunctional as the present government's housing policy.

Rather sweet, actually.

mcsean2163

jill_valentine wrote: »

We're not supposed to live in apartments, apparently, they're for storing money in.

Single people don't exist, you must mean workers. And shur we have to head into work, we don't need anywhere to live, that's for real people, they stopped making them about 45 years ago.

I'm 44. So close, I could've been somebody, I could've been real but now I'm just a nonexistent person in the void imagining a reality that isn't.

Cyrus

Cal4567 wrote: »

I love the way this thread dances from critical appraisal of our housing predicament, then morphs into property supplement mode whenever someone puts up the latest (not very good value) million € pile, normally in the swankier parts of town, and then careers back to moaning about investment funds. It is as dysfunctional as the present government's housing policy.

Rather sweet, actually.

some of us come here to discuss properties in the main, i know thats my favourite type of post.

Cyrus

DataDude wrote: »

Yeah I could understand it (but still wouldn't buy it) at the €1.0m - €1.1m range but at €1.4 it's completely bonkers.

They paid €1.2m for it in mid 2018 so I guess after putting in floors, "landscaping" etc. it probably stands them €1.3m or so.

Sort of house that looked like it would get crucified in 2019/2020 - doubt they'd have gotten €1.1 for it last year. Taking their opportunity to bail out with the COVID price bump and make a small profit.

for an estate that size, with that size of a garden and that layout i cant see value in it. The location isnt special enough either. But someone will buy it at asking id wager.

Browney7

Cyrus wrote: »

for an estate that size, with that size of a garden and that layout i cant see value in it. The location isnt special enough either. But someone will buy it at asking id wager.

Suppose "value" is very subjective. The following is a house that although looks nice, is in my opinion, terrible value compared to the Mt Anville property linked earlier https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/terraced-house-67-richmond-road-drumcondra-dublin-3/3150250. Whilst it has "character" being a red brick, it is less than half the size, terraced, on a busy road (which would be a long way from the "nicer roads" in Drumcondra).

Some very aspirational pricing on show at present. Not that I'd be in a position to buy either!

jill_valentine

My company has a group scheme similar to ****e Groupon or something. Just got a mail offering me a month "free" in one of Kennedy Wilson's blocks if I take a lease before July. List includes Capital Dock and Alto Vetro (the skinny empty looking one you can see from Grand Canal), though not Clancy Quay.

The "free" month, we all know about, but I've never seen anything like this on this newsletter thing, which is usually stuff like gym gear or Halfords discounts.

Wonder if they're a bit squirmy about the recent attention on their low occupancy.

Cyrus

Browney7 wrote: »

Suppose "value" is very subjective. The following is a house that although looks nice, is in my opinion, terrible value compared to the Mt Anville property linked earlier https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/terraced-house-67-richmond-road-drumcondra-dublin-3/3150250. Whilst it has "character" being a red brick, it is less than half the size, terraced, on a busy road (which would be a long way from the "nicer roads" in Drumcondra).

Some very aspirational pricing on show at present. Not that I'd be in a position to buy either!

yes id agree similar price on a per sq foor basis but there is a much greater population of buyers at 650k v 1.4m to counter that.

Browney7

Cyrus wrote: »

yes id agree similar price on a per sq foor basis but there is a much greater population of buyers at 650k v 1.4m to counter that.

Agree totally - but the better buy in my opinion is the Mt Anville property in that case but you don't have unlimited funds being the problem!

PropQueries

Some interesting developments in the UK according to the BBC with "Universities keeping lectures online into autumn term".

Here's some snippets:

"The University of Liverpool says it wants as "much face-to-face teaching as possible", but is expecting a blend of online and in-person.In practice this may mean instead of coming on to campus for lectures you may be asked to watch some short pre-recorded videos created by your tutor which cover the same themes and topics as the original lecture...But many lectures will be delivered online as part of an overall hybrid approach"

The London School of Economics "expects the vast majority of seminars and classes to be taught in-person, but lectures will be largely delivered online".

"An academic at a London university, speaking anonymously, contacted the BBC to suggest there would be financial savings for universities from reducing staffing levels and making a longer-term shift to keeping lectures online."

Most likely a similar development will happen here IMO. If most lectures will be online going forward, most students will only have to turn up for tutorials etc. a couple of days a week.

Given that most students in Ireland wouldn't be more than a 2 hour drive from their nearest university, it would appear to me that the demand for housing from students in our cities is going to start dropping very fast and most likely permanently if Irish universities follow suit for the coming term in September IMO

Link to article on BBC here: https://www.bbc.com/news/education-57150071

awec

PropQueries wrote: »

Some interesting developments in the UK according to the BBC with "Universities keeping lectures online into autumn term".

Here's some snippets:

"The University of Liverpool says it wants as "much face-to-face teaching as possible", but is expecting a blend of online and in-person.In practice this may mean instead of coming on to campus for lectures you may be asked to watch some short pre-recorded videos created by your tutor which cover the same themes and topics as the original lecture...But many lectures will be delivered online as part of an overall hybrid approach"

The London School of Economics "expects the vast majority of seminars and classes to be taught in-person, but lectures will be largely delivered online".

"An academic at a London university, speaking anonymously, contacted the BBC to suggest there would be financial savings for universities from reducing staffing levels and making a longer-term shift to keeping lectures online."

Most likely a similar development will happen here IMO. If most lectures will be online going forward, most students will only have to turn up for tutorials etc. a couple of days a week.

Given that most students in Ireland wouldn't be more than a 2 hour drive from their nearest university, it would appear to me that the demand for housing from students in our cities is going to start dropping very fast and most likely permanently if Irish universities follow suit for the coming term in September IMO

Link to article on BBC here: https://www.bbc.com/news/education-57150071

What does this have to do with anything? Universities are not schools, they are not chosen based on proximity.

yagan

PropQueries wrote: »

Given that most students in Ireland wouldn't be more than a 2 hour drive from their nearest university, it would appear to me that the demand for housing from students in our cities is going to start dropping very fast and most likely permanently if Irish universities follow suit for the coming term in September IMO

I was working with a recent grad from the USA who told me that it was far cheaper for them to do their masters in Dublin than in the USA, even when paying international fees.

As colleges in the USA are businesses I can imagine some will probably develop hybrids that saves on campus time and expense for both the college and student.

I believe WIT mentioned something about developing such an option.

PropQueries

awec wrote: »

What does this have to do with anything? Universities are not schools, they are not chosen based on proximity.

Apparently they do. According to the Irish Independent:

"Data compiled by the Sunday Independent over the past eight years displays some notable trends, outlining where students prefer to study and their chosen third level institution's proximity to home. An analysis of this data shows significant numbers of students from Dublin, Cork and Donegal choose to stay in their own counties to study."

"Almost two thirds (62pc) of University College Cork's (UCC) student population hail from Cork."

"Dublin students have also shown a willingness to stay at home across the past eight years, but are evenly spread around the multiple universities and colleges in the capital."

If lectures were to be primarily online, the incentive to live and choose locally would only increase even more IMO

Link to article in Irish Independent here: https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/school-league-tables/home-is-where-the-heart-is-for-a-lot-of-students-35404159.html

JimmyVik

yagan wrote: »

I was working with a recent grad from the USA who told me that it was far cheaper for them to do their masters in Dublin than in the USA, even when paying international fees.

As colleges in the USA are businesses I can imagine some will probably develop hybrids that saves on campus time and expense for both the college and student.

I believe WIT mentioned something about developing such an option.

I feel so sorry for the kids going to Uni these days.
Imagine spending your college years (the best and most fun years of your life) at a desk in your parents house.
Covid has a lot to answer for.

yagan

awec wrote: »

What does this have to do with anything? Universities are not schools, they are not chosen based on proximity.

This is a thread about Irish property and student accommodation has been prominent in the mix, especially in Dublin.

Last summer I think one developer applied for retrospective planning permission for 500 student units down in the docklands to be switched to private residential.

Zenify

awec wrote: »

What does this have to do with anything? Universities are not schools, they are not chosen based on proximity.

I thought is was a good point... and most people choose university based on location. The top end choose the best university usually Trinity or UCD but everyone else is mostly based on locality unless what they want to do is not available locally.

yagan

JimmyVik wrote: »

I feel so sorry for the kids going to Uni these days.
Imagine spending your college years (the best and most fun years of your life) at a desk in your parents house.
Covid has a lot to answer for.

There's plusses and minuses. On the plus side they save rent and on the social side I had far more fun when I was earning than when I was a broke student.

The social aspect is important, but a blended model with staggered on campus residency may actually allow a better overall experience.

If I had to do all over again I'd look look through eunicas.ie for courses in the EU too. Many options are far cheaper than Ireland, with the added bonus of picking up other languages.

awec

PropQueries wrote: »

Apparently they do. According to the Irish Independent:

"Data compiled by the Sunday Independent over the past eight years displays some notable trends, outlining where students prefer to study and their chosen third level institution's proximity to home. An analysis of this data shows significant numbers of students from Dublin, Cork and Donegal choose to stay in their own counties to study."

"Almost two thirds (62pc) of University College Cork's (UCC) student population hail from Cork."

"Dublin students have also shown a willingness to stay at home across the past eight years, but are evenly spread around the multiple universities and colleges in the capital."

If lectures were to be primarily online, the incentive to live and choose locally would only increase even more IMO

Link to article in Irish Independent here: https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/school-league-tables/home-is-where-the-heart-is-for-a-lot-of-students-35404159.html

62% of UCC's students are from Cork.

But what % of Cork students are at UCC.

The two stats are very different.

JimmyVik

yagan wrote: »

There's plusses and minuses. On the plus side they save rent and on the social side I had far more fun when I was earning than when I was a broke student.

The social aspect is important, but a blended model with staggered on campus residency may actually allow a better overall experience.

If I had to do all over again I'd look look through eunicas.ie for courses in the EU too. Many options are far cheaper than Ireland, with the added bonus of picking up other languages.

I'll say it again
Imagine spending your college years at a desk in your parents house.

Cyrus

awec wrote: »

62% of UCC's students are from Cork.

But what % of Cork students are at UCC.

The two stats are very different.

Plus you'd assume locals going to ucc are living at home anyway same as with Dublin kids in ucd, they aren't the ones driving demand for accommodation

PropQueries

Cyrus wrote: »

Plus you'd assume locals going to ucc are living at home anyway same as with Dublin kids in ucd, they aren't the ones driving demand for accommodation

I think you’re trying to be as positive as possible that everything will return to 2019 post-covid.

But the cities are going to be permanently a lot less busy post-covid from the permanent decline in business travel (carbon footprints) and companies like AIB already stating they will be going to 3 days home, 2 days in office post-covid etc. etc.

The housing markets in the cities are going to take a massive, permanent hit and most likely this year IMO

yagan

JimmyVik wrote: »

I'll say it again
Imagine spending your college years at a desk in your parents house.

Read my post again and you'll see that there may develop an blended option where students aren't at home for the whole time.

As someone else linked there's already a preference for staying near home colleges.

Another aspect I think that will impact the student accommodation model that's so popular is that Asian parents may feel less inclined to send their offspring to countries where there may an anti-Chinese sentiment after Covid.

Cyrus

PropQueries wrote: »

I think you’re trying to be as positive as possible that everything will return to 2019 post-covid.

But the cities are going to be permanently a lot less busy post-covid from the permanent decline in business travel (carbon footprints) and companies like AIB already stating they will be going to 3 days home, 2 days in office post-covid etc. etc.

The housing markets in the cities are going to take a massive, permanent hit and most likely this year IMO

It won't be this year if they do.

IMO

L1011

PropQueries wrote: »

Apparently they do. According to the Irish Independent:

"Data compiled by the Sunday Independent over the past eight years displays some notable trends, outlining where students prefer to study and their chosen third level institution's proximity to home. An analysis of this data shows significant numbers of students from Dublin, Cork and Donegal choose to stay in their own counties to study."

"Almost two thirds (62pc) of University College Cork's (UCC) student population hail from Cork."

"Dublin students have also shown a willingness to stay at home across the past eight years, but are evenly spread around the multiple universities and colleges in the capital."

If lectures were to be primarily online, the incentive to live and choose locally would only increase even more IMO

Link to article in Irish Independent here: https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/school-league-tables/home-is-where-the-heart-is-for-a-lot-of-students-35404159.html

The figures you are citing do not support what you are trying to claim they support.

Please learn some basics of how statistics work - either you don't, or you are misrepresenting the content of an article again.

Zenify

Things couldn't have changed in the few years since I left college.

People from Dublin, study in Dublin. People from Cork study in Cork.

I'm from Dublin and studied in Dublin. I played sport at 3rd level. When we played against UCC they were from Cork, UL - Limerick etc. obviously a few exceptions but that's the way it was.

I remember less than 10% being from outside Dublin in my course and most of them were the surrounding counties. Lots of them rented the first few years but commuted the last year (2013) as it got too expensive so they commuted in.

I'd guess it will be a similar thing. Dublin people who are studying in Dublin will still stay at home as they did before. It will probably be the students on the outskirts who will manage much better now with commuting 1 or 2 days a week and won't need to rent.

The outskirts people rent. Kildare, Louth etc for Dublin. Kerry, Clare for Cork or Galway.

awec

Zenify wrote: »

Things couldn't have changed in the few years since I left college.

People from Dublin, study in Dublin. People from Cork study in Cork.

I'm from Dublin and studied in Dublin. I played sport at 3rd level. When we played against UCC they were from Cork, UL - Limerick etc. obviously a few exceptions but that's the way it was.

I remember less than 10% being from outside Dublin in my course and most of them were the surrounding counties. Lots of them rented the first few years but commuted the last year (2013) as it got too expensive so they commuted in.

I'd guess it will be a similar thing. Dublin people who are studying in Dublin will still stay at home as they did before. It will probably be the students on the outskirts who will manage much better now with commuting 1 or 2 days a week and won't need to rent.

People from Dublin and people from Cork study all over the world.

Zenify

awec wrote: »

People from Dublin and people from Cork study all over the world.

Of course they do. I'm a little lost here. Maybe I'm missing something.... Do you not agree that most Dublin 3rd level students study in Dublin?

edit

I did say there are exceptions

Graham

Zenify wrote: »

I'm a little lost here. Maybe I'm missing something....

I think there's a few of us in the same boat Zenify.

The rather confused theory appears to be something like this......

Some UK Universities are going to be keeping some lectures online this autumn and because Irish students in 2017 preferred to study in/near their home town or home county there's going to be significant impact on the post-covid property market.

PropQueries

Graham wrote: »

I think there's a few of us in the same boat Zenify.

The rather confused theory appears to be something like this......

Some UK Universities are going to be keeping some lectures online this autumn and because Irish students in 2017 preferred to study in/near their home town or home county there's going to be significant impact on the post-covid property market.

Well, given that over 10,000 purpose built student bed spaces have been completed since 2016, there must have been some level of excess student demand for housing in our cities pre-covid.

If our universities follow what that BBC report says the UK universities are planning to do, that demand could reverse significantly post-covid, and it will have a significant negative impact on the property markets in all our university cities, most likely to be seen in the next 4 months IMO

And, if anything, it will definitely obliterate the student digs market IMO