Public Toilet plans beside English Market

sporina

oh oh traders are not happy..

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40284917.html

Mardyke

Id put a massive public toilet between Nash 19 and Clancy's.

rorrissey

Yeah I see where they're coming from. Yes, public toilets are needed, but that's not a great location.

Wildly Boaring

Always the same with amenities in this country.

We moan when we don't have them.
We moan when they pick the spot for them.

Jcb21

Cant really blame them. Especially when the toilets across the road are a boarded up eyesore.

Widdensushi

Taisce might object due to emissions

rorrissey

Jcb21 wrote: »

Cant really blame them. Especially when the toilets across the road are a boarded up eyesore.

Yep. Not to mention, there is a public toilet already inside the English Market. (I haven't used it since December, I'm assuming it's still open to the public.)

notAMember

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Always the same with amenities in this country.

We moan when we don't have them.
We moan when they pick the spot for them.

++ We don't listen to people with experience and expertise.

That building is the largest tourist attraction in the city.
It's a food-centric facility.
It's OLD. There are sewers in there currently with long-standing problems, needing a lot of back-flushing and constant maintenance.
It's beautiful, an asset to our city and should be maintained / improved.


Putting a set of stinky toilets beside veg and meat traders seems short-sighted when there is an abandoned boarded up set of toilets directly across the street. Redevelop those, and instead augment the english market with a tenancy at the front that is visually attractive.

sporina

notAMember wrote: »

++ We don't listen to people with experience and expertise.

That building is the largest tourist attraction in the city.
It's a food-centric facility.
It's OLD. There are sewers in there currently with long-standing problems, needing a lot of back-flushing and constant maintenance.
It's beautiful, an asset to our city and should be maintained / improved.


Putting a set of stinky toilets beside veg and meat traders seems short-sighted when there is an abandoned boarded up set of toilets directly across the street. Redevelop those, and instead augment the english market with a tenancy at the front that is visually attractive.

yeah a mate of mine works in TEM and was telling me that they have awful trouble as it is with the sewage system.. and apparently TEM have been trying to hav that building incorporated into THE for an age but to now avail..

Surely there has to be lots of other more suitable places where they could have public loos.. so many vacant buildings around the city

whisky_galore

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Always the same with amenities in this country.

We moan when we don't have them.
We moan when they pick the spot for them.

What wrong with reusing and renovating the existing toilet block that's not very far away to be fair?
But no, some city hall pen pusher has to choose a clearly ridiculous unsuitable location.
A child could see theres something wrong with it.

namloc1980

notAMember wrote: »

Putting a set of stinky toilets beside veg and meat traders seems short-sighted when there is an abandoned boarded up set of toilets directly across the street. Redevelop those, and instead augment the english market with a tenancy at the front that is visually attractive.

They aren't going to be next to the fruit and veg and there's already a toilet in the English Market - this one won't be.

notAMember

namloc1980 wrote: »

They aren't going to be next to the fruit and veg and there's already a toilet in the English Market - this one won't be.

The location being discussed is between Superfruit (fruit and veg) and O'Mahony's (meat).

the beer revolu

I'm not sure that this is the best location for these necessary toilets but when I hear that "the market traders" are up in arms, my gut tells me that the opposite to what these traders want is, in fact the best thing.

These are the same traders who blocked the extension of the market with the capitol development.
The same traders campaigned strongly against the pana traffic restrictions.

Also, in my experience, these are not the views of all the market traders, just the ones who shout the loudest and most often!

namloc1980

notAMember wrote: »

The location being discussed is between Superfruit (fruit and veg) and O'Mahony's (meat).

Hilsers between the two entrances.

namloc1980

the beer revolu wrote: »

I'm not sure that this is the best location for these necessary toilets but when I hear that "the market traders" are up in arms, my gut tells me that the opposite to what these traders want is, in fact the best thing.

These are the same traders who blocked the extension of the market with the capitol development.
The same traders campaigned strongly against the pana traffic restrictions.

Also, in my experience, these are not the views of all the market traders, just the ones who shout the loudest and most often!

They also demanded that Oliver Plunket Street be turned into a car infested rat run last year for click and collect. The English Market is great, but some of the traders are a joke.

the beer revolu

namloc1980 wrote: »

They also demanded that Oliver Plunket Street be turned into a car infested rat run last year for click and collect. The English Market is great, but some of the traders are a joke.

Yes, I forgot about that one.

I spoke to some traders who were very much against this but it wasn't their voices that were heard.

notAMember

namloc1980 wrote: »

Hilsers between the two entrances.

Yes exactly there.
Directly behind that is superfruit and to the right is the butcher.

the beer revolu

notAMember wrote: »

Yes exactly there.
Directly behind that is superfruit and to the right is the butcher.

I assume the proposed toilets will have walls.

Outkast_IRE

the beer revolu wrote: »

I assume the proposed toilets will have walls.

I was hoping more for an open air urinal like at a outdoor concert.

the beer revolu

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

I was hoping more for an open air urinal like at a outdoor concert.

Or just a hole dug in the ground with a fence around it!
Remember them?

notAMember

the beer revolu wrote: »

I assume the proposed toilets will have walls.

Yeah, walls are a solution to everything. Totally makes stinking excrement repositories stuffed with junkies both invisible and smell proof.
Well , unless they need to include doors too. Then the plan falls apart.

Outkast_IRE

notAMember wrote: »

What's your point?

The point is proximity to food service businesses are not a concern in this scenario . One would assume the door will be out to the streetside and like most major toilets have a lobby between the toilets and the street.

titan18

Ya, I'd with the traders here. There are toilets across the street that should be refurbished instead and something more appealing put here considering the English Market is probably the biggest attraction in the immediate city centre.

Pauliedragon

It looks like this is a response to the people on the piss over the last few months around the corner who are pissing everywhere. Apparantly these toilets if they go ahead will be closed at 8pm anyway so that will not stop people pissing in all the laneways between the South mall and Oliver Plunkett st anyway. You can smell the urine from Grafton st about 20 metres away. I've had my couple of cans there over the last few weeks in the evening but it has been getting out of control and I'm gone by 8pm.

notAMember

I can only imagine the front of some people’s homes if they think installing a toilet door on the front facade of a historic tourist attraction is a genius idea.

Talk about cowboy builder land!

yenom

Whether it's right or wrong, public toilets attract the drug addicts and drinkers.

TheChizler

notAMember wrote: »

I can only imagine the front of some people’s homes if they think installing a toilet door on the front facade of a historic tourist attraction is a genius idea.

Talk about cowboy builder land!

What is it now, stickers over the windows?

elperello

Apparently some of the traders had an alternative plan for that closed unit.

They wanted some sort of tourist display/reception area and were in discussions with another section of the council and other tourism bodies.

Outkast_IRE

elperello wrote: »

Apparently some of the traders had an alternative plan for that closed unit.

They wanted some sort of tourist display/reception area and were in discussions with another section of the council and other tourism bodies.

Yeah that's a good idea as currently people visit the market and its just to wander around . Something to add some cohesion to the experience might be good.

whisky_galore

yenom wrote: »

Whether it's right or wrong, public toilets attract the drug addicts and drinkers.

Not having public toilets doesn't make addicts and drinkers disappear magically.

Kerry25x

yenom wrote: »

Whether it's right or wrong, public toilets attract the drug addicts and drinkers.

These will be supervised toilets so would hope they'll be well maintained and safe - similar to toilets you'd get in a restaurant (am I being too optimistic here?). I actually wouldn't mind having to pay a small fee to a toilet attendant like you do in some European countries if it meant nice clean facilities.

lostinsuperfunk

Apparently some of the traders had an alternative plan for that closed unit.

They wanted some sort of tourist display/reception area and were in discussions with another section of the council and other tourism bodies.

But according to the Examiner, that's what is actually being proposed:

The council plans to renovate the ground floor of the former Hilser's building into a city council information and public display centre and to install public toilets and public changing facilities.

I don't know that the traders' issue is. We need more public toilets, and this sounds like a good facility. The existing toilet in the English Market is inadequate and even if the closed Grand Parade toilet was reopened it still wouldn't be sufficient.

yenom

whisky_galore wrote: »

Not having public toilets doesn't make addicts and drinkers disappear magically.

They use the bus station toilets at the moment to shoot up. I imagine the traders don't want them shooting up next to the market.

sporina

lostinsuperfunk wrote: »

But according to the Examiner, that's what is actually being proposed:


I don't know that the traders' issue is. We need more public toilets, and this sounds like a good facility. The existing toilet in the English Market is inadequate and even if the closed Grand Parade toilet was reopened it still wouldn't be sufficient.

from the same article, what do they mean by this? "It’s proposed to open the Grand Parade building's toilets to the general public from 10am to 8pm, seven days a week, at 50c a go"

whisky_galore

yenom wrote: »

They use the bus station toilets at the moment to shoot up. I imagine the traders don't want them shooting up next to the market.

Can you think of any public building with a prominent sh1tter right in front, at the entrance?
Does your house have a toilet in the front?

beer enigma

Fully support additional facilities in the area, especially if they are manned and maintained, but this just isn't the place for one. Its slap bang in between the two open entrances to the market.

I'm sure it wont smell :rolleyes: but even the thought of it feels wrong. The other side is that any queuing for the toilets will intermingle with the people in and out of the market. At the moment with limited access it would be unworkable with the security and queues on the market. That area is jammers in the Summer an a 'loo queue' would be messy.

As I say totally in favour of more facilities....just not there...imagine that whole middle section as a toilet

sporina

beer enigma wrote: »

Fully support additional facilities in the area, especially if they are manned and maintained, but this just isn't the place for one. Its slap bang in between the two open entrances to the market.

I'm sure it wont smell :rolleyes: but even the thought of it feels wrong. The other side is that any queuing for the toilets will intermingle with the people in and out of the market. At the moment with limited access it would be unworkable with the security and queues on the market. That area is jammers in the Summer an a 'loo queue' would be messy.

As I say totally in favour of more facilities....just not there...imagine that whole middle section as a toilet

excellent post - take a bow! you should show that pic to City Council... it really shows how that building should be turned into something perhaps representative of the market... not fecking loos! and yes - such a good point regarding queues for loos.. I am telling you - go to CCC with this! Obv we need public loos but not there. Such a waste of a prominent building/location..

beer enigma

The other issue that putting toilets there doesn't address is the drug use reason the old ones were closed for - it would be same problem, different location.

Leave the old ones closed because of drug misuse, but open a new location ? where's the thinking or logic in that. This photo shows why the old ones were closed.

RINO87

I've always wondered this, but why is the English market seen as a tourist attraction? Genuine question! I mean they are everywhere on the continent, most towns over a certain size have them.

beer enigma

Because if you are into food then they are a huge attraction. One of the main reasons I visited Barcelona was to see the Boqueria, likewise the Time Out in Lisbon and Borough Market in London.

Probably doesn't translate to everyone but 30% of all the visitors to the English Market during the summer are tourists.

sprucemoose

ive proposed some questionable designs in my career, but to use the street-facing facade of arguably the most popular tourist destination in the city, facing onto a very busy street - lunacy. Im not too familiar with who owns the unit or who is proposing this idea, but it just shows the lack of intelligence that the owners/designers/council/planning dept (delete as appropriate) have. add to this, there are already existing toilets a few metres across the road - clean/fix these and ensure theyre safe before doing anything else

who_me

RINO87 wrote: »

I've always wondered this, but why is the English market seen as a tourist attraction? Genuine question! I mean they are everywhere on the continent, most towns over a certain size have them.

Not sure why either, but it seems to be. Have heard that a lot of traders previously were complaining about people coming in for a look but not necessarily buying anything, making it crowded for paying customers.

I remember walking by a group of (German, maybe) girls on the Grand Parade, who got all excited when they spotted it and had to go in. Strange, but then I guess the city doesn't really have many destinations/draws either, so happy to have anything.

Pandiculation

It’s unusual in an Irish context or even compared to most British cities, as most of those markets have gone.

You see a similar fuss in the US with the Seattle Public Market and Faneuil Hall in Boston and plenty of lesser known ones.

Surely there must be a better option for toilets though? They’re not likely to be needed forever and certainly making that location a permanent toilet bloc is a bad idea.

Surely there are better locations? There are plenty of empty spaces around.

PreCocious

The proposal is to convert Hilsers into an information centre that also contains toilets. Hopefully these would be better than the crap ones that are already in the Market within feet of food stalls including the ones used by market traders.

It is a good point about the touristic aspects of the market. Before Covid the traders imposed a ban on walking tours at certain periods - rightly so because tourists aren't going to be buying most of the stuff in there. If you look at the touristy markets abroad the Boqueria is becoming full of juice bars and places dealing purely with tourists and not folk who are purchasing to bring home and cook their dinner.

RINO87

beer enigma wrote: »

Because if you are into food then they are a huge attraction. One of the main reasons I visited Barcelona was to see the Boqueria, likewise the Time Out in Lisbon and Borough Market in London.

Probably doesn't translate to everyone but 30% of all the visitors to the English Market during the summer are tourists.

I agree, but the places you have listed are on another level completely to the English market.

notAMember

RINO87 wrote: »

I agree, but the places you have listed are on another level completely to the English market.

Cork city is ~500k people. London is close to 9 million? I think we're punching above our weight here in fairness with this kind of facility.

Also, it was created in the 1780's... and still functions as a working market. Not too shabby lads!

titan18

beer enigma wrote: »

Because if you are into food then they are a huge attraction. One of the main reasons I visited Barcelona was to see the Boqueria, likewise the Time Out in Lisbon and Borough Market in London.

Probably doesn't translate to everyone but 30% of all the visitors to the English Market during the summer are tourists.

TimeOut markets are a completely different level than the English Market tbf. I've been in the one in Lisbon and it is fantastic though.

I'd also imagine the reason it's popular with tourists is cos what else is there in the city.

the beer revolu

I love The English Market and I love visiting markets abroad. I even enjoy visiting supermarkets abroad.

notAMember

titan18 wrote: »

I'd also imagine the reason it's popular with tourists is cos what else is there in the city.

Galleries- there are loads of them, Museums (butter museum is great in particular!), Shandon bells, st finbarrs cathedral, the city gaol. Pubs and music venues, cafes, restaurants. Walking tours of the bridges, amazing stories around some of those. Kayaking tours on the river. There's loads of tourist stuff in Cork!


Sometimes it's nice to take a few days and be a tourist in your own city. Enjoy!

notAMember

notAMember wrote: »

Galleries- there are loads of them, Museums (butter museum is great in particular!), Shandon bells, st finbarrs cathedral, the city gaol. Pubs and music venues, cafes, restaurants. Walking tours of the bridges, amazing stories around some of those. Kayaking tours on the river. There's loads of tourist stuff in Cork!


Sometimes it's nice to take a few days and be a tourist in your own city. Enjoy!

You can see everything there is to see in Cork City in a day.

notAMember

Deleted User wrote: »

You can see everything there is to see in Cork City in a day.

Ah now, You boardsies are a fierce mopey lot! Would want to get out more. Cork is absolutely stuffed with interesting things.

I've lived here for decades and still not seen it all, after showing many visitors around. I haven't been in every restaurant, every cafe. I don't know the story of every bridge, only saw the drowning cell under south gate bridge a few years ago.

Not everyone knows this story either...
https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/dr-james-barry-the-irishwoman-who-fooled-the-british-empire-1.2781260


Taking a walk up military hill, over to the barracks and around that area would take you a day in itself and you still wouldn't know it.

There are plenty of nooks and crannys in UCC too. Ever explored the Honan?