Engine died while driving

BlakeS94

Was driving on a dual carriageway today, when all of a sudden there was a lot of hesitation, bucking is how I would describe it, and then one big cloud of white smoke shot out the exhaust pipes, and the engine shut off. Got car towed to my mechanic, who originally thought the engine was seized, that is not the case because he was able to drive it onto the shop floor, but said when its given revs it just dies again, oil level was about a foot higher on the dipstick and he could smell diesel off it. The injectors were pulled and they covered the engine bay in diesel, He now reckons its the turbo that caused the puff of smoke out the back and the injectors could be at fault also. Would these be worth fixing on a 2013 i40 with 220kms on the clock? I've just paid 2000 for head gasket glow plugs and heater matrix recently so don't want to be throwing a lot more money at it if it won't fix anything, my worry is I could pay to replace injectors and turbo but the car conking out could have caused internal damage maybe? Coolant level is unchanged.

Some background info: I've put a lot of money into the car the last couple months, every aspect of cooling system has been replaced including head gasket and heater matrix. The car has been surging lately and failed to start once, so faulty injectors would make sense

Meeoow

My injectors went a few years ago. Sounds the same as your issue.
Can they replace the seals or do you need new ones? What kind are they. I bought mine directly from Siemens through a diesel place, they were far cheaper than buying the same ones from a main dealer, but I had to wait a few weeks for them.
Did you get dodgy diesel anywhere? The fuel pump might be damaged too if you did.

BorneTobyWilde

Not sure what Turbo has to do with diesel getting into engine oil. Oil level foot higher on the dipstick, that's your issue,injectors fine most likely, but the injector sleeve, or seal that separated diesel getting into oil is obviously gone.

Doublebusy

As these i40's get older and up the miles they seem to be very troublesome

BlakeS94

Meeoow wrote: »

My injectors went a few years ago. Sounds the same as your issue.
Can they replace the seals or do you need new ones? What kind are they. I bought mine directly from Siemens through a diesel place, they were far cheaper than buying the same ones from a main dealer, but I had to wait a few weeks for them.
Did you get dodgy diesel anywhere? The fuel pump might be damaged too if you did.

I'm not sure yet mechanic had only started looking when I left the place, I always get the premium diesel option every time I fill up

BlakeS94

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Not sure what Turbo has to do with diesel getting into engine oil. Oil level foot higher on the dipstick, that's your issue,injectors fine most likely, but the injector sleeve, or seal that separated diesel getting into oil is obviously gone.

My mechanic mentioned seals I didn't follow exactly what be said but maybe that was it, white smoke could have been cause by oil from turbo getting into exhaust

FDave

I think an O ring can fail in the fuel pump on those and dumps fuel into the head. You seem to be having alot of misfortune with that car.

BlakeS94

Doublebusy wrote: »

As these i40's get older and up the miles they seem to be very troublesome

That's simply not true, I bought mine at 165,000km and it now has 221,000km and the only things I've had to replace were the water pump, radiator, thermostat, head gasket, heater matrix, brake calliper, track rod ends, sway bar bushings front and back, sway bar links front and back, brake lines.

Wait, nevermind..

BlakeS94

FDave wrote: »

I think an O ring can fail in the fuel pump on those and dumps fuel into the head. You seem to be having alot of misfortune with that car.

Haven't considered that, yeah and the funny thing is I've never shown a car so much love and given it priority over my finances.yet it continues to hate me

LowOdour

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Not sure what Turbo has to do with diesel getting into engine oil. Oil level foot higher on the dipstick, that's your issue,injectors fine most likely, but the injector sleeve, or seal that separated diesel getting into oil is obviously gone.

I got my i30 serviced before xmas, and has been fine until the last week when the engine management kine came on. Luckily it came on just as I pulled into the drive.

Checked the oil dipstick and it was way above the limit. It was either the mechanic put a huge amount of oil in it 4 months ago, or a seal has gone and allowing diesel to seep in.

mk7r

Fuel pump seal is the likely culprit, engine may be goosed

BlakeS94

mk7r wrote: »

Fuel pump seal is the likely culprit, engine may be goosed

Could I hear the reasoning behind your theory please?

mk7r

BlakeS94 wrote: »

Could I hear the reasoning behind your theory please?

They fill the sump with diesel which dilutes the oil and the engine doesn't have enough protection so can score/seize up parts.

BlakeS94

mk7r wrote: »

They fill the sump with diesel which dilutes the oil and the engine doesn't have enough protection so can score/seize up parts.

As I said in OP the car was driven onto the shop floor, wouldn't injector seals also dump diesel fuel into the engine oil?

mk7r

BlakeS94 wrote: »

As I said in OP the car was driven onto the shop floor, wouldn't injector seals also dump diesel fuel into the engine oil?

No not unless it's a vw pd engine

BlakeS94

mk7r wrote: »

No not unless it's a vw pd engine

It's a hyundai, common rail fuel delivery system

mk7r

BlakeS94 wrote: »

It's a hyundai, common rail fuel delivery system

Yes I am aware, I was just saying only PD engines are set up in a way that the injector seals can leak diesel into the sump. A commonrail with exposed injectors cannot as they are a totally different design.

BlakeS94

Said I'd update this post for full disclosure and all that. Injectors were pulled from the car and sent to fuel system specialist who tested each one and they had failed, getting them refurbished and the oil and filter changed and sump dropped and cleaned out I think. The lad testing them said it could also be the fuel pump seal as mentioned by previous posters, but its also likely that the injectors, because they had completely sh1t themselves, allowed diesel into the combustion chamber and got through to the crankcase hence mixing with the oil. I gave the go ahead to do that bit of work for around €850 ( which I think is a good price for 4 refurb injectors, oil and filter, sump removal and all the labour) but once engine is running my mechanic will know if diesel is still getting into engine oil and if it is, well then I think I'll have it burned out in a field somewhere.

Hellrazer

Its almost 100% the fuel pump seal.

The injectors failed as a consequence of the fuel pump seal - the injectors were starved of diesel and failed.

Get the pump sorted first or else your new injectors will fail as well - not the other way around.

BlakeS94

Hellrazer wrote: »

Its almost 100% the fuel pump seal.

The injectors failed as a consequence of the fuel pump seal - the injectors were starved of diesel and failed.

Get the pump sorted first or else your new injectors will fail as well - not the other way around.

You could be right, the specialist garage testing the injectors only had the injectors, not the car itself, so all they could say was that the injectors were all bad. My garage reckons the pump may be okay. For now all I can afford are the injectors, the high pressure pump would be out of my budget at the moment and if that is what's causing the issue, then my money has run out for what I'm able to spend on the car and I'll have to figure something out. Injectors need to go in to get the engine running and once its running it'll be monitored and if there's stil diesel going into the oil then my mechanic will know for sure its the fuel pump also. I don't think an idling engine with a bad fuel pump will damage the injectors immediately, correct me if I'm wrong. I'm praying it'll turn out okay because I'm at my wits and wallets end with this car

Hellrazer

BlakeS94 wrote: »

Y
My garage reckons the pump may be okay.

Pump probably is ok - its the seal on the shaft of it that fails dumping diesel into the oil.

Injectors need to go in to get the engine running and once its running it'll be monitored and if there's stil diesel going into the oil then my mechanic will know for sure its the fuel pump also. I don't think an idling engine with a bad fuel pump will damage the injectors immediately, correct me if I'm wrong. I'm praying it'll turn out okay because I'm at my wits and wallets end with this car

Depends how bad the fuel pump seal is leaking - running injectors even for a few minutes with no diesel going through them will destroy the new ones in minutes.

Also he wont be able to tell if its pumping diesel into the oil until he takes it for
a long drive at high revs - at that stage the damage would already be done again.

Do it right and do the seal first - you could save the labour for the sump - that doesnt need to be removed and cleaned out and hes probably charging you a couple of hours labour for that - you could put towards the pump seal.

BlakeS94

Hellrazer wrote: »

Pump probably is ok - its the seal on the shaft of it that fails dumping diesel into the oil.



Depends how bad the fuel pump seal is leaking - running injectors even for a few minutes with no diesel going through them will destroy the new ones in minutes.

Also he wont be able to tell if its pumping diesel into the oil until he takes it for
a long drive at high revs - at that stage the damage would already be done again.

Do it right and do the seal first - you could save the labour for the sump - that doesnt need to be removed and cleaned out and hes probably charging you a couple of hours labour for that - you could put towards the pump seal.

Okay so the mechanical function of the fuel pump is fine, the person that tested the injectors mentioned that he's seen the seals go on the pumps in i40s, and said that the new seal usually goes aswell for some reason, which is why I'm thinking the entire fuel pump may need changing. I trust my mechanic from my experience he's one of the good ones and I don't think he'd give the car back if he thought it was going to come back again shortly after. Time will tell, I'll update again when I hear back, thanks for your insight

9935452

Hellrazer wrote: »

Pump probably is ok - its the seal on the shaft of it that fails dumping diesel into the oil.



Depends how bad the fuel pump seal is leaking - running injectors even for a few minutes with no diesel going through them will destroy the new ones in minutes.

Also he wont be able to tell if its pumping diesel into the oil until he takes it for
a long drive at high revs - at that stage the damage would already be done again.

Do it right and do the seal first - you could save the labour for the sump - that doesnt need to be removed and cleaned out and hes probably charging you a couple of hours labour for that - you could put towards the pump seal.

Id agree with you. Known issue on the car,
Fix it right and know its right
Any idea of the cost of getting the seal done?

Hellrazer

BlakeS94 wrote: »

Okay so the mechanical function of the fuel pump is fine, the person that tested the injectors mentioned that he's seen the seals go on the pumps in i40s, and said that the new seal usually goes aswell for some reason, which is why I'm thinking the entire fuel pump may need changing. I trust my mechanic from my experience he's one of the good ones and I don't think he'd give the car back if he thought it was going to come back again shortly after. Time will tell, I'll update again when I hear back, thanks for your insight

The seal always fixes it as long as the pump is operating correctly. And honestly Ive never seen a seal fail again that we fitted unless its another couple of hundred thousand kms on it.

Hellrazer

9935452 wrote: »

Any idea of the cost of getting the seal done?

ive seen Indys charge 3-4 hours labour because its a pain of a job.

Hyundai dealers have a special tool that takes the job down to an hour or so.

BlakeS94

Hellrazer wrote: »

ive seen Indys charge 3-4 hours labour because its a pain of a job.

Hyundai dealers have a special tool that takes the job down to an hour or so.

I think I'll take your advice on asking my garage to replace the fuel pump seal, whether they think its bad or not, I can change the oil and filter again after the garage do it maybe 2 or 3 times to try flush out as much fuel as possible in my own time. The main dealer being able to do the job in much less time, would that be cancelled out by difference in hourly rate, or is it that it'll take them one hour, but they'll charge you more than one hour labour? If it's cheaper, or even the same price to get it done at main dealer, id go with them.

corks finest

BlakeS94 wrote: »

Was driving on a dual carriageway today, when all of a sudden there was a lot of hesitation, bucking is how I would describe it, and then one big cloud of white smoke shot out the exhaust pipes, and the engine shut off. Got car towed to my mechanic, who originally thought the engine was seized, that is not the case because he was able to drive it onto the shop floor, but said when its given revs it just dies again, oil level was about a foot higher on the dipstick and he could smell diesel off it. The injectors were pulled and they covered the engine bay in diesel, He now reckons its the turbo that caused the puff of smoke out the back and the injectors could be at fault also. Would these be worth fixing on a 2013 i40 with 220kms on the clock? I've just paid 2000 for head gasket glow plugs and heater matrix recently so don't want to be throwing a lot more money at it if it won't fix anything, my worry is I could pay to replace injectors and turbo but the car conking out could have caused internal damage maybe? Coolant level is unchanged.

Some background info: I've put a lot of money into the car the last couple months, every aspect of cooling system has been replaced including head gasket and heater matrix. The car has been surging lately and failed to start once, so faulty injectors would make sense

Might be an idea to get it checked by a different mechanic

BlakeS94

corks finest wrote: »

Might be an idea to get it checked by a different mechanic

Bit too late for that, the injectors are being done as we speak.

BlakeS94

Got a call from the garage there. Injectors are back in but High pressure diesel pump is facked, its located on the driver side of the engine, ran by the timing chain. looking for 2nd hand one from scrappers because new they're stupid money.

BlakeS94

Managed to pick up a 2nd hand part for €260 delivered, the garage need to order in a special tool to remove the high pressure pump socket, there's a hyundai main dealer 3 minutes away and they chanced borrowing the tool off them but of course Hyundai said go on away out of it. So it won't be done until the tool arrives

alan partridge aha

I hope when this is done your troubles are over. Best of luck.

BlakeS94

alan partridge aha wrote: »

I hope when this is done your troubles are over. Best of luck.

Me too, this job makes €3300 in repairs since March 2021. Someone once told me the cheapest part with a car is when you initially buy it.

Meeoow

If I win the euro millions tomorrow night, I'm going to PM you and buy you a new car.

BlakeS94

Meeoow wrote: »

If I win the euro millions tomorrow night, I'm going to PM you and buy you a new car.

I'll hold you to that, I'll take a BMW M8 competition please 😀

Cos20

BlakeS94: Hope you get sorted, you should fit a new seal to the secondhand pump before fitting.
Hellrazer: We have a 2013 I40 in work, would you recommend changing the seal now in case it fails?

BlakeS94

Cos20 wrote: »

BlakeS94: Hope you get sorted, you should fit a new seal to the secondhand pump before fitting.

Do you mean the auxiliary pump inside the fuel tank?

Hellrazer

Cos20 wrote: »

Hellrazer: We have a 2013 I40 in work, would you recommend changing the seal now in case it fails?

I would on a 2013.

BlakeS94 wrote: »

Do you mean the auxiliary pump inside the fuel tank?

High pressure pump.

Cos20

No i mean the high pressure pump run off the timing chain.

Hellrazer

Blake - spoke to a good friend of mine in hyundai last night - he reckons your 4 injectors are ok - hes never seen 4 go together - maybe one but definitely not 4.

Also said that before you fit the new pump get the dpf cleaned properly. And also check the fuel return pipe back to the tank and make sure the lad that did your cooling issue didnt put the return pipe where the feed goes - hes seen it in the past and will give the same symptoms of the fuel pump being fecked - worth trying.

Cos20

Hellrazer wrote: »

I would on a 2013.

Thanks, I was just onto my local dealer & they said the seal is not listed separate from the pump. Can they be got spurious?

BlakeS94

Hellrazer wrote: »

Blake - spoke to a good friend of mine in hyundai last night - he reckons your 4 injectors are ok - hes never seen 4 go together - maybe one but definitely not 4.

Also said that before you fit the new pump get the dpf cleaned properly. And also check the fuel return pipe back to the tank and make sure the lad that did your cooling issue didnt put the return pipe where the feed goes - hes seen it in the past and will give the same symptoms of the fuel pump being fecked - worth trying.

Thanks for looking into it for me it's much appreciated, injectors are done and back in the car so that much as been accounted for already, this issue only became noticeable after the head gasket job when I got the car back, before that it seemed fine, no hesitation or misfires. You could be right in saying that, but I wouldn't know how to bring it up with my garage without sounded like a you know what. With the dpf the car doesn't do short journeys and I religiously give it an Italian tune up on the dual carriageway every few weeks or so

BlakeS94

Cos20 wrote: »

Hellrazer wrote: »

I would on a 2013.

Thanks, I was just onto my local dealer & they said the seal is not listed separate from the pump. Can they be got spurious?

https://www.winparts.ie/engine-parts-accessories/fuelsystem/fuel-pump/c721/repair-kit-fuel-pump/p1213390.html would that include the HPP seal, says its for 2013 i40

cournioni

FDave wrote: »

I think an O ring can fail in the fuel pump on those and dumps fuel into the head. You seem to be having alot of misfortune with that car.

This, and also, there is an issue software where it is telling the injectors to inject into the DPF at the wrong time, causing diesel to get into the sump. Main dealer software update usually fixes this.

cournioni

Hellrazer wrote: »

Blake - spoke to a good friend of mine in hyundai last night - he reckons your 4 injectors are ok - hes never seen 4 go together - maybe one but definitely not 4.

Also said that before you fit the new pump get the dpf cleaned properly. And also check the fuel return pipe back to the tank and make sure the lad that did your cooling issue didnt put the return pipe where the feed goes - hes seen it in the past and will give the same symptoms of the fuel pump being fecked - worth trying.

No need to get a new fuel pump. An o-ring and a shaft can be changed in a diesel shop for about €300 with test (less if just a seal). It’ll be a Bosch pump so that will be the place to go.

BlakeS94

cournioni wrote: »

This, and also, there is an issue software where it is telling the injectors to inject into the DPF at the wrong time, causing diesel to get into the sump. Main dealer software update usually fixes this.

How would I go doing that just ring up main dealer and give my reg and ask if there's any updates outstanding

cournioni

BlakeS94 wrote: »

How would I go doing that just ring up main dealer and give my reg and ask if there's any updates outstanding

Pretty much Blake. Mention the issue you are having with diesel getting into the sump. I take it this is a Hyundai 1.7 diesel?

If you have had your injectors checked and your pump repair and checked (shaft seal and shaft) and they’re okay and your oil is still rising then the software is the most likely issue.

BlakeS94

cournioni wrote: »

Pretty much Blake. Mention the issue you are having with diesel getting into the sump. I take it this is a Hyundai 1.7 diesel?

If you have had your injectors checked and your pump repair and checked (shaft seal and shaft) and they’re okay and your oil is still rising then the software is the most likely issue.

Yeah it's the 1.7crdi. Injectors are refurbished, my mechanic had to go off and buy the special socket to remove high pressure pump so waiting on that, the 2nd hand part from the breakers was delivered to them earlier in the week

BlakeS94

Car is back from mechanic,€900 bill aaand......he said get rid of it. Reckons there's been engine damage from the day it went up in smoke. So I'm off to trade it in for a cheap ****box because that's all I can afford at this stage.

Truckermal

I clearly remember someone telling you that a few months ago.

BlakeS94

Truckermal wrote: »

I clearly remember someone telling you that a few months ago.

Yes but did I listen? Never again

landmarkjohn

BlakeS94 wrote: »

Yes but did I listen? Never again

Jeez, what a tale of woe! You have every right to feel sorry for yourself with the money gone into that car! Best of luck with your next one!