Are we excited yet?

fritzelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118367407#Comment_118367407

Ok now you're forgiven

wotzgoingon

Over €45k for people on this side of the Atlantic.

antimatterx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118367474#Comment_118367474

I just follow dollar price because it seems to be the main currency used by all the crypto commentators I followZ

FFVII

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/currencies/countries-that-have-banned-crypto-bitcoin-china-library-of-congress-2021-12

creeping

fritzelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118368654#Comment_118368654

Hey now - wrong thread for that

Meanwhile - State Media Xinhua to Issue NFTs

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-22/china-s-state-media-xinhua-to-issue-nfts-amid-crypto-crackdown

(Comes with full personal tracking implemented on each sold)

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118365567#Comment_118365567

New Zealand, to me, is an even more premium location - and it doesn't have CGT, death duties, VRT, DIRT, 23% VAT, imputed disposal of ETFs, the HSE or €150,000 of debt per taxpayer. Most years they even manage to balance their budgets.

AlmightyCushion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118370487#Comment_118370487

Their housing crisis is worse than ours.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118370600#Comment_118370600

No contest there. A definite fly in the ointment, but I'll take it.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118370487#Comment_118370487

Not much good to you with your crypto millions though. Given that you'd be taxed on them there in NZ. Ya might want to check up the rules before you go over there and wait a few years to be non resident from Irish tax, only to be a landed with a shock upon discovering that you're gonna be taxed on them in NZ anyway.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118370880#Comment_118370880

I dont have millions, unfortunately. The post was a joke, which should have been obvious from referencing the far shorter period my wallet has been dormant for.

I'll cross any crypto tax roads when I come to them. My intention to emigrate was never about tax on crypto and pre-dates even acquiring any.

Harryd225

I remember a while back my friend tried to convince me to invest in bitcoin while I was saving for a house, I looked at him as if he asked me to put my savings on an odds on favorite at ascot.

Anyone know though just for my own curiosity what the odds would roughly be say if I put 5 grand into bitcoin now what would I likely win or lose in 6 months time?

HGVRHKYY

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118370880#Comment_118370880

If you emigrate permanently to NZ, or anywhere outside the EU, you can disregard the whole 3 years to become non resident bullshit, that's another disgraceful tax law as well

wotzgoingon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371184#Comment_118371184

Tbh with you the big wins are in alts but nobody knows the market but if you could predict the future you would be a millionaire with alts in a very short time.

Example 5 grand on Bitcoin now you would make €1500 profit if it rises to €60k in the future.

On a alt coin worth 0.13 at the minute if it rose to 0.4 you would make €10k profit but as I said to know which one is going to do that is impossible.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371190#Comment_118371190

Nope. You would remain ordinarily resident in Ireland for tax purposes for those 3 years. You won't get charged on income tax where that income is generated fully outside of Ireland during that time. But you are still ordinarily resident.

It's not disgraceful at all. It is to stop people moving temporarily to avoid tax. In the extreme case, if there were no time requirements, you could have a company pay it's CEO a million quid salary on say 1st Dec every year, and that CEO could take a day trip on Ryanair to a very low income tax jurisdiction, say he was resident there for that day, come home the next day and have paid hardly any tax on it.

If you genuinely want to move somewhere then you can go. Move to El Salvador if you want. Just wait out your three years there, then cash in and you'll be happy out. If you'd prefer to stay here for those three years then you should be expected to contribute.

HGVRHKYY

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371290#Comment_118371290

I'm well informed on all of that, my point is outside of the EU, there's nothing that could be done to recover - and probably even discover - the potential liability you'd owe to Irish revenue if you dispose of your assets within the 3 years. Why do you think I specifically mentioned emigrating permanently?

As for your example justifying this, having the period be one year should be enough as this is how it is for many countries as far as I know. Pretty ridiculous to infer that I would think people should be able to become tax resident elsewhere based off of only one day

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371290#Comment_118371290

You only have to wait 3 years if your move is temporary. Irish laws have no jurisdiction beyond Ireland's borders Do you think that If NZ passes a law that everyone in Ireland should pay 1% of their income to them that it would have legitimacy? If you move to a foreign country, the only laws you have to abide by are that countrie's.

Laws are meaningless without a means to enforce them. Ireland has no means of enforcing it's taxation laws on individuals living in foreign countries, anymore than those countries have the means to enforce their laws on residents of Ireland.

If someone returns to Ireland, then the law could be enforced - if Revenue had a means of being informed of the disposal, which they don't. Financial institutions go on physical residential address and don't deal with notions foreign governments might have of 'normally tax resident'. Try moving to another country and remitting your tax back to Ireland for 6 months, instead of the local tax authorities, and see what happens. You are tax resident in a country as soon as you are living and earning there.

fritzelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371688#Comment_118371688

IRS says hello

HGVRHKYY

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371688#Comment_118371688

You are right for countries outside the EU, but EU countries can absolutely enforce cross border recovery of taxes for each other, I remember this coming up on a thread here before and someone linked to specific details about this on revenue. So it's possible - maybe not likely - that someone who relocates to another EU country, makes a large amount from selling assets, and then returns to Ireland within a few years and transfers over that wealth to Irish accounts could get questioned on the new found wealth, and then they'd probably contact the other country for some assistance in finding out what went on. Could revenue contact the main exchanges for info as well? Since they'd all have KYC

fritzelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371718#Comment_118371718

Dunno about the intra EU tax implications but Revenue can certainly ask the exchanges for info - that's the whole reason behind why they have to do KYC if they want to operate within Europe

How many countries in the EU would you really be saving that much to move there for 3 years - bit of a false dichotomy

HGVRHKYY

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371726#Comment_118371726

Better off moving for well beyond the 3 years in my opinion, just live there if the place has favourable taxes.

Portugal is absolutely ideal within the EU since they've no taxes on crypto at all, and you can live really cheaply in a lot of areas there and it's generally a very nice country once you've no worries about supporting yourself. If you've a €1m+ portfolio and relocated to avoid the 33% CGT here, that's a minimum of ~€330k saved for basically going to live somewhere more affordable with better weather. Sounds like a good deal to me, could do a lot with that €330k you'd have saved alone

Better off going outside the EU though if possible, if you've a portfolio large enough that this is all realistically in the plan

fritzelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371727#Comment_118371727

True, an outlier, but that could all change next year but you are still liable in Ireland for 3 years - cannot see Portugal not doing anything within the next few years, too much money to be made off it and nothing governments like more than taxing people...

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371184#Comment_118371184

Nobody can tell you that and anyone who try to claim they know is simply hoping, dreaming or hating.

Take one grand put it in and forget about it for a year or few.

We told our son several times when ethereum was around 200 to buy couple of them he was laughing. Then his friend "selfproclaimed crypto expert" managed to convince him to buy few thousands worth of doge I nearly got heart attack.

He is down about 40% for now and will be waiting long time to get his money back. If that actually happens.

fritzelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371754#Comment_118371754

Ouch

Meme coins are good for some day trading but that's all (made a tidy profit on shiba, told a few people to sell and they held, now they are still holding hoping to make their money back or even profit ffs)

Isn't there a dedicated Tax thread, in this very forum?

Grumpypants

If Elon pulls the finger out we can all head to mars with our bitcoin and the tax man will never find us.

massdebater

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371864#Comment_118371864

Dogeelon Mars will be the currency on Mars.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371864#Comment_118371864

Like anyone will own anything, if he sends them to Mars.

Lifetime of indentured servitude, at best, for any poor souls drinking his Kool-aid

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371731#Comment_118371731

Portugal were deliberate in the exemption, just as they were with the retiree incentives. They didn't make a mistake. Greece is another with special tax holidays for retirees.

My son built an Etherium miner, with my funding. I very much regret we decommissioned it and sold off the RX580s, as they went up in value substantially and ethirium then quintupled in value. At least we didn't sell the coins.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371688#Comment_118371688

Try moving to another country and remitting your tax back to Ireland for 6 months, instead of the local tax authorities, and see what happens. You are tax resident in a country as soon as you are living and earning there.

It seems that you have your conclusion arseways. While it is very true that that other country won't care about you remitting taxes to Ireland (assuming absence of a double taxation treaty), it does not mean that both countries won't assess you as liable for tax. That is the reason why such treaties exist - they allow you to subtract tax paid to one from your liability due to the other.

The US for example, has a general provision that it subjects its citizens to tax regardless of where they live (in effect this does not impact many people due to other provisions and offsets but the concept is there). One notable case was Boris Johnson who got caught for CGT a few years back. He was born in the US but had not lived there since he was a child. He sold his house in London and made a few quid. No CGT due in UK as it was his principle residence but it was due in the US and he had to pay it.

The remainder of your post implicitly condones/encourages tax evasion.

massdebater

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118373671#Comment_118373671

US probably isn't a good example to use as they have a very unique and all-encompassing way of taxing their citizens on global income. It's bad enough that many Americans renounce their citizenship just to avoid it. That's unlikely to be the case with irish citizens.