Insulate between studs of timber frame house

silkey

Hi,

I recently moved a socket on an external wall of a timber frame house and took a few pictures with my phone of the area between the wall studs. There doesn't seem to be any insulation between the studs. Is it possible/ advisable to pump foam insulation or beads into the gaps? Would have to be pumped through the plasterboard on the inside

BryanF

Not really foam or beads. Would need to understand build-up if construction and how complete breathable felt/cavity on the outside of stud frame is.

silkey

BryanF wrote: »

Not really foam or beads. Would need to understand build-up if construction and how complete breathable felt/cavity on the outside of stud frame is.

From what I can see the buildup, starting from the inside is
Plasterboard
Timber studs
A timber board fixed to the outside of the studs
And I can't see beyond that.

The outer leaf is plastered block work

Thanks

Calahonda52

what depth are the studs you see?

it could be a service cavity
did the wire penetrate the board?

MicktheMan

Calahonda52 wrote: »

what depth are the studs you see?

it could be a service cavity
did the wire penetrate the board?

That would be my thinking, an uninsulated service cavity.

silkey

Calahonda52 wrote: »

what depth are the studs you see?

it could be a service cavity
did the wire penetrate the board?

I think it's about 75mm, but not sure.
I didn't think there was much distance between the inside of the window frame and the board connected to the outside of the stud. Would the window frame usually be in the same plane as the timber frame, or in the cavity?
I didn't see the cable going through the board, but I wasn't looking for it!
If it is a service cavity, there should be insulation outside the board, is that correct? Plasterboard isn't insulated.

BryanF

How old is the house?

silkey

BryanF wrote: »

How old is the house?

Around 20 years old. Early 2000s

Fine Cheers

Is the socket close to ground level ? I wonder was it quilt insulation that may have slipped down ? Can you drill a small hole into the plywood board and see if any insulation comes out with drill bit ? Was it a one off house or part of estate ? Ours is similar vintage, timber framed and part of small estate. Poorly built I have to say. Planning on getting thermal survey and or air tightness test done as I have my doubts re quality of t/f wall construction. Service ducts in repeat houses would not be standard as far as I know at that time. Window would normally be in the cavity zone.

invara

Can I jump on this comment.

I have an old 1930s timber frame house, with a narrow slip brick leaf, and empty timber cavity before plasterboard- zero insulation, freezing cold and expensive to even get lukewarm.

Can I put solid insulation (kingspan kooltherm or equivalent) in the cavity, between the existing batton, with tape or expanding foam to seal the cavity on the and then put insulated plasterboard replacing the old and failing plasterboard.

I was planning on just putting insulated plasterboard, but as I opened it up, I saw an opportunity for more insulation. Worried about moisture, but both the solid infill insulation and new insulated plasterboard have foil back. Thanks

MicktheMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123058596#Comment_123058596

Your terminology is a bit confusing so it would be helpful perhaps if you sketched out what you have and what you are proposing to do.

invara

Thanks. Not sure I can sketch on boards….
Working from the outside in, first there is a thin (4 inch) block, then there is a 9 inch cavity with timber battons, then plasterboard.

My original plan was to replace the final innear leaf of plasterboard (which is failing, wallpaper and plasterboard for almost a century), but as I removed it I saw the cavity and wondered about putting insulation (rockwool or solid kinspan panels) into the cavity. I am worried about moisture, mold and ventilation and wonder would putting this insulation in that cavity store up trouble for the future.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123061324#Comment_123061324

A brick slip is 1". A 4" brick is a normal brick. I doubt the cavity is 9", so presumably you've missed the timber frame part of the wall. The frame is the structural part of the wall

MicktheMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123065453#Comment_123065453

Agreed. I reckon that they have opened up a section of the external wall and are seeing nothing except the outer block leaf and the cavity they are referring to includes the structural timber frame depth and the ventilated cavity. Hence my request for a sketch and the confused terminology comment (e.g. battens = stud/frame).

Clarification from them would be helpful.

invara

Sorry for the confusion.
Exterior is 4'' block, there is a small gap/cavity of around 3'' and then a 4'' stud frame- 175mm for both stud and cavity. The roof appears to sit on the stud frame.

My plan is to use 100mm PIR panels (Unilin Cavity Wall Insulation) to fill the stud, leaving the gap behind it, and then use insulated plasterboard to replace the old plasterboard. The blocks are damp/stained (not wet) on the back, a few cracks in the morter to fill- so worried about mold and moisture.

MicktheMan

So no insulation or air tight barrier … no wonder you're freezing!

So I wouldn't worry too much about the damp blocks once the cavity is maintained between the TF and block wall. Check for small ventilation holes in the outer block wall especially on the bottom. If not present then perhaps consider adding some.

Because of the TF nature of the structure I would be paranoid about introducing a risk of moisture getting into the timber from inside. Using diffusion closed products such as pir is therefore imo not a great idea and it would be much better to use semi-rigid rockwool batts between the studs instead. If you want to add more insulation inside the frame then counter batten and add more rockwool between the battens. In any case make sure to install a good air tight membrane (lapped and taped and fully sealed to all floors ceilings etc) before fixing the plaster board. Don't forget to include appropriate ventilation in your plan.

Calahonda52

If this were my gaff I would leave the 4" stud alone and not try infill with anything as how will you support it on the inside face and stop it falling into the cavity, also if cavity is ventilated I would be concerned about the effectiveness of the batts with out a wind side barrier.

I would skip off all the existing pb and remove and pipes, cables, SH lamps and line the inside face with a wall wind barrier, stapled and taped with the exterior side into the cavity.

If you wanted to strengthen the stud walls you could then sheet it with OSB 3 asa racking sheet]

Then sheet the inside with breathable , ie no tin foil insulation you like, then an airtight vapour barrier taped and sealed to floors and ceiling then fix studs on the room side to create a service cavity and face with pb.

May be a bit more expensive but much easier to get right.

This is one place to get the gear

https://www.partel.ie

another

https://www.ecologicalbuildingsystems.com

there are others

pauly58

Hard to believe you have no insulation. Our's was built 2006, concrete block outer, then a cavity, vapour barrier on a board onto the timbers. We have kingspan 65mm between the timber joists, we could have had rockwool, then plaster board on the inside. Having the heating on for an hour is plenty, otherwise it get's too warm.

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123066358#Comment_123066358

Might help to read the posts

I have an old 1930s timber frame house,

invara

Thanks a million for the advice - really appreciate it.

Calahonda52

https://www.seai.ie/sites/default/files/documents/S.R.54-2014.pdf

will help, its free but you need to sign up and your pdf will be branded with your details