Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118208720#Comment_118208720

But you have just been told, by multiple posters, that the risks of side effects such as myocarditis are far higher after infection than vaccination.

FintanMcluskey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118208743#Comment_118208743

In just under 2 years, 1 in 10 of us in Ireland have had a positive PCR test.

9 out of 10 of us have NOT had a positive test.

So I struggle to see how we will catch this multiple times?

Does no form of immunity exist?

How long would we have to live to get it multiple times?

floorpie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118208666#Comment_118208666

On what basis do you believe that any of the current vaccines in Ireland will prevent transmission to other people? I'm not saying you're wrong but what data is feeding into this medical direction.

Anita Blow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118208685#Comment_118208685

In the same way a parent will give their child Paracetamol for a fever when it carries a risk of hepatic necrosis, anaphylaxis or toxic epidermal necrolysis. I'm sure most never even heard of those side effects nor would it stop them giving their child Calpol when they're 40 degrees- it's because it all comes down to risk/benefit analysis. The chance of those side effects occurring is so infinitely small compared to the chance that the Calpol will bring your child's fever down and offer them some relief. There is no such thing in medicine that is risk-free.

In the case of COVID vaccines, the risk of a serious adverse event is negligible when you look at the HPRA data. 83 cases of myocarditis-like symptoms in 7.3 million vaccines gives an overall risk of 0.001%. The high incidence rate of COVID in Ireland at the moment is high and the PIMS-TS risk in children under 12 is around 1.5-1.7% (according to some papers, I don't think it's been these high in Ireland but may be wrong), with 40-50% of these being admitted to PICU. So a risk/benefit analysis of myocarditis in vaccine VS COVID favours the vaccine.

It's a very reasonable fear for a parent to have and it shouldn't be dismissed. My advice would be if you have concerns about the vaccine for your child then discuss with your GP. Avoid informal sources as these tend to be biased toward negative experiences (nobody comes online to post about how amazing they tolerated a vaccine). If you want to read up on the side effects of the vaccines the HPSC is a neutral source that processes and aims to investigate the nature of all side effects of treatments and vaccines.

RGARDINR

My little lad 8 got his pcr results back this evening was positive. Seems OK says his belly and head at him at moment but only in the last while said that so be interesting to see tomorrow. I have my pcr booked in tomorrow, I feel like **** at moment, was weird Thursday evening got this little cough and was there Saturday, little bit of a headache Saturday then as well. Got txt Saturday night saying one of his friends in school him and his sis just got results back and tested positive that's why put little lad in for pcr yesterday. Yesterday my headache got worse, still have it at moment, felt achy on back and few other places, when I sneezed and still happens it hurts my chest for a few mins afterwards and sneezing a bit as well. Can't smell since today, load of snots (nice I know), stomach in bits yesterday as well. Weird metallic taste for a few hrs today that's gone now tho was more morning until about 3. Went to bed last night I felt really cold yesterday, I woke 2 hrs later bed was drenched in my sweat. Seems that I get worse during the day when I wake I'm not in bits but feel like crap longer the day goes. Eyes water up tons and eyes bloodshot as well. Had my 2 vaccines as well. Late 30s here. Got msg from other parent while ago, her son went home not feeling well today from school. Out of 26 only 14 kids in the class today. Off with what I do not know but I can hazard a guess.

ACitizenErased

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118208686#Comment_118208686

2% higher than 8pm last Monday (588 -> 603).

Not bad, all things considered

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118208749#Comment_118208749

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118208753#Comment_118208753

You guys aren't getting it.

Covid 19 is a virus, a tiny insidious creature that seeks out and infects human beings. It can cause harm and even death if you can't avoid it.

A vaccine is a chemical, injected into your arm by a health worker, to combat the virus.

The parent consents to inject their child with the chemical.

If a parent has any doubts, any doubts at all, that the vaccine may cause their child more harm than the virus, the parent will not give their child the vaccine.f

If the parent thinks the vaccine might harm their child, the parent will likely take the chances with the virus rather than intentionally injecting a potentially harmful substance into their child.

They are responsible for administering the vaccine to their child. They are not responsible for Covid 19 shutting down society.

And that's all there is to it.

hotmail.com

Claire Byrne quoting what she heard on a WhatsApp group.

Journalists repeating the rubbish on whatsapp groups on a live programme.

FintanMcluskey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118208749#Comment_118208749

These risk based calculations assume everyone will catch the virus though

1 in 10 so far has caught Covid (PCR) in Ireland since March 2020

So disease risks in children should be adjusted to account for the diminished risk of actually contracting the virus over a time period, knowing the vaccine seems to have a 6 month effectiveness or maybe more, I don't remember but we're getting boosters soon

Ie your child could likely have a 50% chance of reaching adult hood before actually contracting the virus, or a 90% chance of not contracting the virus before the booster is required.

And of course the likelihood that the booster will further vary the risk level.

-I'm fully vaccinated BTW just a curious observation I've always had reading these conversations

Anita Blow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118208762#Comment_118208762

Here are 4 papers on the impact vaccination has on transmission

Scotland- https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2106757

Netherlands- https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34355689/

Israel- https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.12.21260377v1

Finland- https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.27.21257896v2

For example the first paper demonstrated a 68.3% decline in transmission rates to household contacts of those who were vaccinated, two weeks after their second dose.

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118208686#Comment_118208686

My guess is most of the 82 didn't even need to be there in the first place.

lawred2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118208824#Comment_118208824

She's such a Helen Lovejoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118208824#Comment_118208824

Stop watching rte

FintanMcluskey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118208827#Comment_118208827

For example the first paper demonstrated a 68.3% decline in transmission rates to household contacts of those who were vaccinated, two weeks after their second dose

Does that effectiveness at preventing transmission last long?

Happydays2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118208139#Comment_118208139

I was probably a bit unfair.

Anita Blow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118208875#Comment_118208875

The papers weren't designed to examine the duration of efficacy as they only looked at transmission rates for a defined period after 1st and 2nd dose. I think real-world data is showing us now that protection starts to wane after 6 months. I think it's important to say that that doesn't imply there's something deficient about the vaccines, but moreso highlights the difficulty of vaccinating against many types of viruses. The causes of common viral respiratory illnesses (RSV, Parainfluenza, Rhinovirus, non-COVID coronaviruses) are notoriously difficult to vaccinate against due to their rate of mutation.

FintanMcluskey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118208899#Comment_118208899

In the discussion about vaccine risks do we account for a bi-annual population vaccination?

Because that appears the course the vaccine programme will take.

Will the Covid risks not remain static, while the vaccine risks will continue to increase with boosters?

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118208826#Comment_118208826

There's a couple of aspects here, first is that the PCR positive % is the minimum infection rate, it will be higher than that due to people not being tested (for whatever reasons), on top of that we're heading into a new phase of "living with COVID" where the case rates will be allowed to stay high (helped by vaccines reducing hospitalisations and R rate), so the chances of meeting SARS-COV2 in the wild will start getting higher and higher. For most people it won't matter, for children it likely won't matter but if they're vaccinated it'll matter even less. These vaccines are safe, they're widely used, understood and tracked in minute detail, multiple studies have been run and will continue to run, the abundance of data can make this hard to track and it can overwhelm people, but there's nothing, realistically, to worry about here, especially as the virus itself has a much worse impact.

Germany's health minister has said that every adult will be "vaccinated, recovered or dead" by the end of winter to give you a good idea of where things are heading.

Stheno

https://twitter.com/RiochtConor2/status/1462920967789981696?t=5Q8TRR-GafiiNtkhL_cqjw&s=19

Massive drop in hospitalizations 11%

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118208915#Comment_118208915

The risk of COVID will occur with every exposure to the virus, it's not a "one and done" either. The flu vaccine is rolled out yearly, SARS-COV2 vaccines will probably follow the same pattern for general population (probably aimed at getting ~50% vaxxed) and potentially more often in vulnerable groups and elderly (who will often be on recurring medicines anyway).

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118208942#Comment_118208942

Part of surge planning is early discharge, looks like some of the Dublin hospitals are preparing themselves.

fits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118208915#Comment_118208915

Who has ever said anything about twice yearly vaccination?

also yes everyone will catch covid in the same way everyone has caught a cold or the flu.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118208805#Comment_118208805

I fail to see how a parent would not factor in the fact that those child will be exposed to Covid and the risk of adverse outcomes is far greater with Covid, even if small compared to the risk in adults.

And even so, myocarditis, if triggered, will occur within days of vaccination. If the child is feeling unwell more than 2 days post inoculation, contact gp and monitor and even if it does develop, which is exceedingly rare, they will be fine.

With the virus it’s different, when triggered after exposure to the virus it could be anytime. Your child may not encounter it for 6 months, a year, or two. But they will. There will likely be the assumption it’s just a cold and after a couple of days you may think they are back to normal and there will head back doing sport maybe. Physical exertion while suffering myocarditis is the highest risk factor for significant impact from the condition. Thankfully this risk is also very low, however still much higher than with the vaccine, which will reduce both the odds of them getting it and the severity should they get it and the occurrence of a unusual immune responses triggering inflammatory conditions including myocarditis

Lumen

FWIW I didn't hold my childrens' hands whilst they got vaccinated because none of us are scared of needles.

prunudo

Another day, another survey on the radio telling us how the majority want restrictions reintroduced, this time brought to you by the Department of Health. Allegedly the first time since January that people want restrictions reintroduced.

As I said in an earlier post, a bit of context on what level of restrictions those that were surveyed wanted would be great.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118209238#Comment_118209238

Market research tends not to be that detailed and the severe warnings over the last week or so have really amped up anxiety levels. One positive from that is the 60% drop in contacts, no bad thing anyway.

FintanMcluskey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118209186#Comment_118209186

Your child may not encounter it for 6 months, a year, or two. 

Unlikely to have caught it by then.

By the end of the decade there would be a 1 in 2 chance of having had Covid

CruelSummer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118208437#Comment_118208437

Show me proof of all the children in Ireland right now suffering from myocarditis post Covid infection, where are these figures? So quick to accuse me of lying and dismiss. Another poster who’s a big fan of the totalitarian path Ireland is heading down and dismisses any debate on it.

In the last month or so Varadkar, Government and media have come out stating:

1. There should be separate ‘police’ checking if people have Covid Certs when socialising.
2. All of the current problems here are due to the unvaccinated - repeated ad nauseam daily by all parties. Low ICU capacity? Unvaccinated. Crap hospitals overflowing with patients - unvaccinated. Current increase in NON-COVID mortality? Unvaccinated. Despite the fact most unvaccinated are actually younger healthy people unaffected by Covid.
3. Goes on CNN blaming 8% of an adult population for our crap health service. Where is the acknowledgement of the 92% who came forward? Or better yet their extra capacity for the health service if it’s so badly needed? They spent 40 billion keeping Ireland closed. The fact Ireland stayed closed ridiculously long for almost the full half of 2021 and wasted billions seemed to have slipped his mind also.
4. Varadkar peddling boosters for the whole adult population early on without any scientific data to back it up. Israel? Where they’re already talking about booster no. 4? I’m not opposed to boosters for older and vulnerable. I’m most certainly opposed to forced / coerced boosters for all.
5. Cheerleading media having segments on Claire Byrne and other shows about how to ostracise people from society - should they be allowed to buy food, should they be forced into it?
6. Now they’re after the children and soon babies also - using tiny trials and basing all side effects on adult studies.
7. International data from Gibraltar suggest these vaccines are not doing what Pfizer claimed - they’ve just cancelled Christmas despite 100% vaccination rate. England has no vaccine pass - they’re doing well. Sweden also. Florida has an older population and yet isn’t in trouble. I thought we were supposed to be following international best practices?

fits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118209273#Comment_118209273

Do you really care about children or is it just another string in your anti vax anti everything mindset? Do you have children?

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118209174#Comment_118209174

I imagine it is the fact that the vaccines were rolled out this year and we are already lining people up for their third jab, along with all the people talking about vaccine effectiveness waning after 6 months.

That is probably why twice yearly vaccination can be mentioned.

bloopy

Has the vaccine cert been rolled out to doctors offices.

Work colleague was made stand out in the street with a sick one year old yesterday evening because he was not vaccinated.

Is this a new thing or something?

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118209303#Comment_118209303

Its just a 2 tier society, no big deal.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118209303#Comment_118209303

Well, it would be part of your medical records and a GP would be aware of your status.

seamus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118209303#Comment_118209303

Standard practice at current infection rates where space is limited in GP offices. Anyone attending with symptoms is asked to wait outside. I'd say your colleague embellished the "unvaccinated" bit.

Our GP put a line of chairs on the path and is doing boosters doses out there rather than bring everyone into a crammed waiting room.

stephenjmcd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118209273#Comment_118209273

Point 7 regarding Gibraltar, might want to tell the chief minister of Gibraltar that he's wrong so.

Gibraltar cancels Christmas was a headline run by tabloids and its not accurate. Seen it peddled here as well

https://twitter.com/FabianPicardo/status/1461643095423000583?t=EhOrRrH1Ag65kcNx7DP82A&s=19

fits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118209301#Comment_118209301

It’s a novel virus and a new vaccine. There is nothing to suggest yet that it will need twice yearly jabs - just people making assumptions.

FintanMcluskey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118209327#Comment_118209327

So there isn't a booster programme?

fits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118209322#Comment_118209322

We are asked to wait in car if we have one and I’m totally happy with that. Don’t want to be picking up any bugs in packed waiting rooms. He did that even before covid for people with respiratory symptoms in flu season.

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118209303#Comment_118209303

I'm surprised the GP didn't make them go for a test first. Seems to be the new entry requirement to even set foot in a surgery these days.

stephenjmcd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118209322#Comment_118209322

Yeah room for 4 in my GPs waiting room now so they ask you to wait in the car until your appointment time then come in and take a seat if they're running late.

If I wasn't driving down then I'd probably be waiting on the street as well

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118209327#Comment_118209327

Sure, absolutely nothing to suggest it whatsoever.

Except of course that we are right this minute giving 6 month boosters to people, but apart from that there is nothing at all to suggest it.

Apart from the boosters and the people getting their 3rd jab in less than a year you are completely right.

FintanMcluskey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118209326#Comment_118209326

The pedantry is amusing Stephen

They've cancelled any official Christmas celebration parties and advised people not to hold gatherings.

I would struggle to see how anyone doesn't see the significance of that move in a country with a 99% vaccine uptake

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118209349#Comment_118209349

Wheres the pedantry from Stephen?

stephenjmcd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118209349#Comment_118209349

You know what Fintan, take it up with Gibraltar, DM the man in charge if you want, I'm sure Mr Picardo will be delighted to hear your insight into his country, I'm not really bothered about Gibraltar though, but where something needs to be called out it gets called out. Call it whatever you want

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118209308#Comment_118209308

You mean its the fathers decision?

Gusser09

Hopefully we continue to see steady increase in hospital discharges and someone in Government has the balls to take on NPHET. What our CMO done yesterday was appalling. He doesn't seem to care about the worry he puts on people with fabricated numbers. Even if the numbers he came up with were correct the way he went about putting out that tweet was unacceptable from a PR point of view. I really think daily numbers should be stopped at this point and people let get on with their lives abiding by the restrictions of the day. We really don't need someone like the CMO dictating to us anymore. He has lost us.

Be right back

This is the headline in the Guardian today.

Apothic_Red

On the subject of Tony & his inflated hospitalisation maths.

I take it he means out of every 1000 people who get Covid & not just the 400 of those thousand we pick up on the PCR test centres.

Remember MM & the 40:60 split, I take it that maths comes from somewhere.

Perhaps it's based on how many of the hospitalised actually registered a positive PCR 2 weeks previous.

It's a theory but makes more sense of Tony's figures.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118209398#Comment_118209398

That's not what the CMO said though. He put out a tweet knowing full well that it was alarmist. Even what you are saying makes no sense. All theory rather than solid hospitalisation figures which the CMO was referring too.

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118209238#Comment_118209238

This is classic behavioural economics. You create the impression that "most people" are in favour of more restrictions so that when/if additional restrictions do come in it's welcomed because most people wanted it anyway. Make no mistake this is just all about laying the groundwork in case they wish to ramp up restrictions.