request for assistance in dealing with aggressive teacher

irishgrover

Hello teachers,

I have a 1st year child who had dyslexia. She has some associated traits, including a level of distraction / forgetfulness etc.
She has a history of issues with one particular language teacher (this is the only teacher they has ever had any negative relationship with)
We got a call from the school explaining that our child was ill and collected her.
Later in the day we were contacted by multiple parents whose children had told them that the teacher had another run in with our child.
Our child forgot their text book. The teacher reacted extremely badly and screamed at my child until the teacher "turned bright red and has spit coming out of her mouth" (the description from another child to their mother)
Being blunt, I know that many will question if my child did something else to trigger such a reaction. I can tell you with 98% confidence that she did not.
But my question is, how does one deal with this situation. I will not have a teacher verbally abusing my child in a way that would not be appropriate for the childs parents. My child was genuinely scared that they were going to be assaulted.
I have a good working relationship with the school and have other children who do well socially and academically.

I'm struggling to identify a legitimate angle to address this. I know if I behaved in that manner at work I would be terminated.
However I know that teaching is a bit different in terms of what is acceptable.
I need to address this and I need to ensure that the teacher understands their behaviour is unacceptable and cannot be repeated. At the same time I dont want to unnecessarily antagonise the school and what to maintain a good working relationship

Any feedback would be appriciated

spurious

Firstly, you only know one version of what happened. There is probably a great deal of truth in it, but it will not be the whole story.

The person to speak to is clearly the teacher involved, but the tone of your post makes me think that might not be helpful at the moment.

Why would your child think they might be assaulted? Do teachers in that school assault children? I appreciate she may well have been scared, but did she say she thought she was going to be hit? Were children hit in another school she went to?

Does the school have a class teacher/year head system? Perhaps involve one of them. The class teacher will have a better overall view of how your child is getting on in all classes.

Other parents getting their children to report 'run ins' to them to relay it all to you is really quite strange. Do they do that for all children for all teachers in all classes? I would not mention that to the class teacher or Year Head.

Treppen

spurious wrote: »

Firstly, you only know one version of what happened. There is probably a great deal of truth in it, but it will not be the whole story.

The person to speak to is clearly the teacher involved, but the tone of your post makes me think that might not be helpful at the moment.

Why would your child think they might be assaulted? Do teachers in that school assault children? I appreciate she may well have been scared, but did she say she thought she was going to be hit? Were children hit in another school she went to?

Does the school have a class teacher/year head system? Perhaps involve one of them. The class teacher will have a better overall view of how your child is getting on in all classes.

Other parents getting their children to report 'run ins' to them to relay it all to you is really quite strange. Do they do that for all children for all teachers in all classes? I would not mention that to the class teacher or Year Head.

I'm not getting that from the OP at all, I don't think other parents 'got' their children to report to them. How would a parent 'get' their kids to report to them , they'd have to prep them before they go in and that day, that sounds a bit too contrived. In any event why would different children/parents concoct a similar story.

I suspect the teacher lost the head to such an extent that they were probably shocked by it and considered it newsworthy, or had to unburden. Fair play to them for telling if that's the case.

Regardless of the above, organise a meeting and tell the teacher what you heard, but... before that, contact the learning support co-ordinator and ask if the teacher is aware of your child's issues with organisation etc. Have you ever been in touch with the Learning Support in the school? They can be an advocate for the child as sometimes teachers are blind to learning difficulties. In a way that can mean they have the same expectations on your child as any other child ... so that's coming from a good place.. initially. It would be worse if a kid forgot their book and a teacher didn't really bother with the issue.

Our learning support regularly gets calls from parents to remind teachers to read the student profiles of certain students with learning needs.

am_zarathustra

Treppen wrote: »

I'm not getting that from the OP at all, I don't think other parents 'got' their children to report to them. How would a parent 'get' their kids to report to them , they'd have to prep them before they go in and that day, that sounds a bit too contrived. In any event why would different children/parents concoct a similar story.

I suspect the teacher lost the head to such an extent that they were probably shocked by it and considered it newsworthy, or had to unburden. Fair play to them for telling if that's the case.

Regardless of the above, organise a meeting and tell the teacher what you heard, but... before that, contact the learning support co-ordinator and ask if the teacher is aware of your child's issues with organisation etc. Have you ever been in touch with the Learning Support in the school? They can be an advocate for the child as sometimes teachers are blind to learning difficulties. In a way that can mean they have the same expectations on your child as any other child ... so that's coming from a good place.. initially. It would be worse if a kid forgot their book and a teacher didn't really bother with the issue.

Our learning support regularly gets calls from parents to remind teachers to read the student profiles of certain students with learning needs.

Good advice here. Sometimes a teacher is not fully informed of diagnosis etc so a check in with LS will help. They will also have a more informed read on where the teacher is coming from.

Although often there are two sides to a story I will say I've seen a small minority of teachers belittle students due to an inability to contextualize a situation. Occasionally even good, balance teachers will have a bad day. I have done it once myself, thankfully with an older student who I had a very good relationship with so I was able to explain my own circumstances and apologize at the time. It may be as simple as a bad day and a conversation might fix it. I think in a lot of jobs the frustrations can be there but different, the difficulty people had facilitating the education their kids at home shows that subject knowledge or having the information or work there is not the same as educating. That part is the skill but a teachers investment can often make them more emotional. It really could be as simple as that.

But if it was my child I would certainly want some sort of explaination one way or the other. If the other students did say it to parents who relayed it to you it's obviously out of the ordinary.

irishgrover

spurious wrote: »

Firstly, you only know one version of what happened. There is probably a great deal of truth in it, but it will not be the whole story.

The person to speak to is clearly the teacher involved, but the tone of your post makes me think that might not be helpful at the moment.

Why would your child think they might be assaulted? Do teachers in that school assault children? I appreciate she may well have been scared, but did she say she thought she was going to be hit? Were children hit in another school she went to?

Does the school have a class teacher/year head system? Perhaps involve one of them. The class teacher will have a better overall view of how your child is getting on in all classes.

Other parents getting their children to report 'run ins' to them to relay it all to you is really quite strange. Do they do that for all children for all teachers in all classes? I would not mention that to the class teacher or Year Head.

thanks for the response Spurious.
I'll clarify a few things based on your response.

Why would your child think they might be assaulted? Do teachers in that school assault children? I appreciate she may well have been scared, but did she say she thought she was going to be hit? Were children hit in another school she went to?
They formed the opinion that based on the behaviour of the teacher, reacting in an extremely hostile manner to a situation that was not consistent with the situation. They felt that the teacher has lost control of themselves and was behaving irrationally and in an very aggressive manner.
Regarding other teachers hitting in that school or any other school; No, to the best of my belief there has never been a history or or exposure to any types of violence.
Overall the school has a deserved excellent reputation and is full of excellent teachers. Obviously not everyone is excellent in any place of work, but overall it is a very well run school with very professional and engaging staff.

Other parents getting their children to report 'run ins' to them to relay it all to you is really quite strange. Do they do that for all children for all teachers in all classes? I would not mention that to the class teacher or Year Head
I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying. There were a number of other students in the class who believed that the incident was sufficiently unusual to independently communicate it to their parents when they got home. Thereafter we received unsolicited communication from some/all of these parents. Based on the conversations they had with their children, they believed that it warranted them contacting us to ensure we were aware of what had happened, according to their childrens account of the incident.

Overall my primary or immediate concern is that the teachers behaviour is negatively impacting my child's welfare and development, in terms of schooling. My secondary concern is how to develop a strategy to facilitate my child continuing to study this subject, at a higher level, when this teacher is the only avenue for doing so.

thanks again for your input.

irishgrover

Treppen wrote: »

I'm not getting that from the OP at all, I don't think other parents 'got' their children to report to them. How would a parent 'get' their kids to report to them , they'd have to prep them before they go in and that day, that sounds a bit too contrived. In any event why would different children/parents concoct a similar story.

I suspect the teacher lost the head to such an extent that they were probably shocked by it and considered it newsworthy, or had to unburden. Fair play to them for telling if that's the case.

Regardless of the above, organise a meeting and tell the teacher what you heard, but... before that, contact the learning support co-ordinator and ask if the teacher is aware of your child's issues with organisation etc. Have you ever been in touch with the Learning Support in the school? They can be an advocate for the child as sometimes teachers are blind to learning difficulties. In a way that can mean they have the same expectations on your child as any other child ... so that's coming from a good place.. initially. It would be worse if a kid forgot their book and a teacher didn't really bother with the issue.

Our learning support regularly gets calls from parents to remind teachers to read the student profiles of certain students with learning needs.

Hi Treppen, thanks for feedback. The school and the teacher (in particular this teacher) are aware of the background. We have had multiple engagements with the school and shared the professional reports assessments and associated recommendations from professional assessments done when the child was 6 and 10 years old. Overall they are doing relatively well academically and the feedback from all other teachers is uniformly very positive. (generally falls into the catagory of "lovely child, works hard, very engaging, bit distracted, bit forgetful, needs to work on their handwriting etc etc"

Re your assessment of the other kids in the class and us getting phone calls from other parents. Your assessment is correct. This was done without our knowledge. It was only after we were contacted by other parents that we became aware of the situation. Our child had insisted that there was nothing wrong in school and that she was sick and she was upset because she was in pain. The child in question is very sociable but also very lacking in self confidence and extremely non confrontational and would obviously prefer that we forget the whole thing. However its having a negative impact on her welfare so I am compelled to act.
thanks again

irishgrover

am_zarathustra wrote: »

Good advice here. Sometimes a teacher is not fully informed of diagnosis etc so a check in with LS will help. They will also have a more informed read on where the teacher is coming from.

Although often there are two sides to a story I will say I've seen a small minority of teachers belittle students due to an inability to contextualize a situation. Occasionally even good, balance teachers will have a bad day. I have done it once myself, thankfully with an older student who I had a very good relationship with so I was able to explain my own circumstances and apologize at the time. It may be as simple as a bad day and a conversation might fix it. I think in a lot of jobs the frustrations can be there but different, the difficulty people had facilitating the education their kids at home shows that subject knowledge or having the information or work there is not the same as educating. That part is the skill but a teachers investment can often make them more emotional. It really could be as simple as that.

But if it was my child I would certainly want some sort of explaination one way or the other. If the other students did say it to parents who relayed it to you it's obviously out of the ordinary.

thanks Am, yeah, fully agree with what you are saying here. We are a "shouty" household generally. Specifically in terms of teachers, especially secondary teachers, I literally have no idea how people deal with the stress and fully understand when people occasionally loose it.

However based on the reaction of the other children, and my childs reluctant description of this situation I need to address it.
thanks again

am_zarathustra

irishgrover wrote: »

thanks Am, yeah, fully agree with what you are saying here. We are a "shouty" household generally. Specifically in terms of teachers, especially secondary teachers, I literally have no idea how people deal with the stress and fully understand when people occasionally loose it.

However based on the reaction of the other children, and my childs reluctant description of this situation I need to address it.
thanks again

Completely agree, especially given your child's generally positive experience. Seems like you are balanced and just want a resolution, I find, as a YH, when people approach these situations like this with that attitude a resolution is generally found. I would also definitely want to know if students in my group had had this experience.

Even the other students telling parents (nice sign of a school and the type of students you child is surrounded by to btw) shows it might have been a single over reaction by a stressed teacher where a sit down might completely resolve the issue provided the teacher is receptive. The could be dealing with loads of exam classes, or home pressures etc. But you are completely right to teach your kid that this is not ok too, teachers are human but that means we need to be able to apologise, even to be good role models.

byhookorbycrook

I’m a primary SET but had to respond. It seems your child and this teacher have had a few “ run ins?” I have experience of a second level teacher “ who doesn’t believe in dyslexia.” I’d echo the advice to talk to the year head and SET.

Bobtheman

Take a step back. The teacher probably had a particularly bad day. You don't know everything your child does in class. Don't assume you do.
Leave it a week or two.. You sound like you are very stressed by it.
The teacher did not hit your kid. To say he was about to or looked like it is to go into dangerous territory.
If you alienate the teacher it will damage your child's education
I'd ask to speak to the teacher directly in about two weeks.
Keep it calm.
I give kids a huge amount of flexibility but if a parent came at me with guns blazing I'd be inclined to operate by the book with that child and the entire class.
The teacher probably had a bad day. I bet you that your child has been provocative in other ways.
Don't be foolish and just accept kids views. Some of those kids probably have axes to Grind against that teacher.
Long term when your kid goes to work they will have to deal with irrational people. It's part of life.

Bobtheman

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

I’m a primary SET but had to respond. It seems your child and this teacher have had a few “ run ins?” I have experience of a second level teacher “ who doesn’t believe in dyslexia.” I’d echo the advice to talk to the year head and SET.

The teacher never said they don't believe in dyslexia. Lots of kids are forgetful and it has nothing to do with dyslexia. Kids without books is a big issue with covid. They can't share books. It's getting to the point where half a class is claiming some disability and want to be left off normal procedures. God help them when they go into employment.

Garibaldi?

Bobtheman wrote: »

The teacher never said they don't believe in dyslexia. Lots of kids are forgetful and it has nothing to do with dyslexia. Kids without books is a big issue with covid. They can't share books. It's getting to the point where half a class is claiming some disability and want to be left off normal procedures. God help them when they go into employment.

Totally agree with this. I forget who said this but it's very true "If you think your teacher is bad wait until you meet your boss".I'd be very wary of believing everything children carry home about what happened in school. Even more wary of some parents who seem to swallow the stories hook line and sinker. It's in your child's best interests to maintain a positive and friendly relationship with this teacher.

Vestiapx

Garibaldi? wrote: »

Totally agree with this. I forget who said this but it's very true "If you think your teacher is bad wait until you meet your boss".I'd be very wary of believing everything children carry home about what happened in school. Even more wary of some parents who seem to swallow the stories hook line and sinker. It's in your child's best interests to maintain a positive and friendly relationship with this teacher.

If a boss :

reacted extremely badly and screamed at my child until the teacher "turned bright red and has spit coming out of her mouth

They would be in a lot of trouble, a lot. Am I reading this wrong or are people saying that if this is a true reflection of what occured that it's not a disciplinary issue?

Garibaldi?

A nasty way to behave, certainly, if it actually happened like that. I would have my doubts.It's the easiest thing in the world for pupils who resent authority to invent and exaggerate. I wouldn't take their accounts as gospel truth and go in all guns blazing, that's for sure.

shtpEdthePlum

Eh, bosses do that all the time.

Please direct me to a line of work with civil rational people in positions of authority.

If the child is 5th year +, I would 100% be telling them that we know it's a sticky situation but we're going to log it (the incident) and do our best to avoid that psychotic reaction in future. Then if anything else like that happens, as a parent you will inquire on their behalf as to why the outbursts are occurring.

That puts the ball in your child's court to take some responsibility for continuing to fly under the radar with that teacher as best they can. This is a valuable life skill to have.

The teacher is probably freaked about the consequences anyway if it's out of character for them to have reacted like that.

Bobtheman

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

I’m a primary SET but had to respond. It seems your child and this teacher have had a few “ run ins?” I have experience of a second level teacher “ who doesn’t believe in dyslexia.” I’d echo the advice to talk to the year head and SET.

Vestiapx wrote: »

If a boss :



They would be in a lot of trouble, a lot. Am I reading this wrong or are people saying that if this is a true reflection of what occured that it's not a disciplinary issue?

You must live in a very sheltered environment. Let's say your boss does that to you and you complain. You can kiss your promotion prospects good bye. Let's say the boss is the owner. Get real

irishgrover

Hi Bob, thanksfor the response
your post hits a few relevant points so I'll breakdown my replies

Bobtheman wrote: »

Take a step back. The teacher probably had a particularly bad day. You don't know everything your child does in class. Don't assume you do.

Totally agree. I will not be accusing the teacher of anything. I will be asking them for an account of what happened, from their point of view, and my subsequent actions will be dependent on their response.

Bobtheman wrote: »

Leave it a week or two.. You sound like you are very stressed by it.

Not that stressed to be honest. The child has 3 older siblings. I'm too old and too experienced to be freaking out over this. However it is something that needs to be addressed. My communication tone in an online forum and my communication in a more officious setting would be quite different. Nonetheless your point is valid - anyone going into a situation where they are "hot headed", assume they know the facts and are not willing for there assumptions to be challenged and corrected is really just wasting time.

Bobtheman wrote: »

The teacher did not hit your kid. To say he was about to or looked like it is to go into dangerous territory.
If you alienate the teacher it will damage your child's education
I'd ask to speak to the teacher directly in about two weeks.
Keep it calm.

I do not believe for one moment that the teacher was about to hit the child. Nonetheless I believe it is probable that the teacher acted in a manner sufficiently unprofessional and lacking self control that it caused the child to legitimately fear for their welfare, be that physical/mental etc

Bobtheman wrote: »

I give kids a huge amount of flexibility but if a parent came at me with guns blazing I'd be inclined to operate by the book with that child and the entire class.
The teacher probably had a bad day. I bet you that your child has been provocative in other ways.
Don't be foolish and just accept kids views. Some of those kids probably have axes to Grind against that teacher.
Long term when your kid goes to work they will have to deal with irrational people. It's part of life.

Going in guns blazing is of no use in any situation,
The teacher may have had a bad day.
I understand that my child's lack of attention to detail and general lack of concentration can trigger anger. It happens at home.
I'm slightly more dismissive of the "axe to grind" theory in this specific case. Primarily due to the independent nature of the behaviour of multiple children after the incident.
Re: Dealing with irrational people - yes, life is full of stress and a-holes of various degrees. However part of life is learning to deal with difficult situations and ensuring you react appropriately when people are behaving inappropriately.

Thanks again for the feedback

Garibaldi?

I would let the tales of pupils and their parents in one ear and out the other. Even the description of the red face and the spit sounds a bit mean and vindictive, to be quite honest.There are people who love a bit of drama! Provided they are not the ones at centre stage and liable to suffer any adverse consequences. People like that are inclined to back off like scalded cats as soon as there is any risk to their own comfortable status. What's important here is the most positive outcome for the pupil, The way to achieve this is to engage with the teacher, to trust him/her and to consider any advice given. Enough time has been lost over the past year. No place for dramatics in the current climate!

irishgrover

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

I’m a primary SET but had to respond. It seems your child and this teacher have had a few “ run ins?” I have experience of a second level teacher “ who doesn’t believe in dyslexia.” I’d echo the advice to talk to the year head and SET.

Hi Byhook...
This is the only class where my child is not doing well, academically and otherwise. We contacted the YH previously and had a conversation with the teacher. We shared the clinical reports in terms of manifestations of difficulties and specifically the recommendations in terms encouragement, positive triggers etc.
The response from the teacher was that their class was full of high achievers and they had limited time or resources to deal with students with specific or special needs and that the child should go to the non honours class. This may be 100% true in the perception of this teacher, however if is at odds with the behaviour of all other teachers in the school.

irishgrover

Bobtheman wrote: »

The teacher never said they don't believe in dyslexia. Lots of kids are forgetful and it has nothing to do with dyslexia. Kids without books is a big issue with covid. They can't share books. It's getting to the point where half a class is claiming some disability and want to be left off normal procedures. God help them when they go into employment.

the above may be anecdotally true. However in this specific case there is no request to be "let off" normal procedure. My child misbehaved in terms of not having a text book and deserves the appropriate reaction to such behaviour. The question is if the teacher reacted appropriated and if not how is the situation addressed to ensure it is not repeated.

irishgrover

Garibaldi? wrote: »

Totally agree with this. I forget who said this but it's very true "If you think your teacher is bad wait until you meet your boss".I'd be very wary of believing everything children carry home about what happened in school. Even more wary of some parents who seem to swallow the stories hook line and sinker. It's in your child's best interests to maintain a positive and friendly relationship with this teacher.

Thanks Garibaldi. I fully agree with your last sentence. The rest does not really apply to this situation.

Garibaldi?

If the pupil has no issues with other teachers is it possible that there may be a difficulty with this particular subject? If, as the teacher stated, this is a class of high achievers, there must be a lot of pressure to complete the year's curriculum given the unusual circumstances of the past year. I would ask the teacher's opinion on the advisability of taking the honours course in this subject. If the teacher thinks the pupil is capable of taking honours I would promise every support possible, including basic organisation concerning textbooks. If the teacher suggests that honours is placing the pupil under excessive pressure, the alternative might be advisable.

irishgrover

Garibaldi? wrote: »

If the pupil has no issues with other teachers is it possible that there may be a difficulty with this particular subject? If, as the teacher stated, this is a class of high achievers, there must be a lot of pressure to complete the year's curriculum given the unusual circumstances of the past year. I would ask the teacher's opinion on the advisability of taking the honours course in this subject. If the teacher thinks the pupil is capable of taking honours I would promise every support possible, including basic organisation concerning textbooks. If the teacher suggests that honours is placing the pupil under excessive pressure, the alternative might be advisable.

this is all very plausible - 100% agree

Calahonda52

irishgrover wrote: »

the above may be anecdotally true. However in this specific case there is no request to be "let off" normal procedure. My child misbehaved in terms of not having a text book and deserves the appropriate reaction to such behaviour. The question is if the teacher reacted appropriated and if not how is the situation addressed to ensure it is not repeated.

.
As a father/grand father of a daughter/child with a disability, I share your pain, however I think the language, eg I]The question is if the teacher reacted appropriated and if not how is the situation addressed to ensure it is not repeated[/I and the underlying mindset, here is not the language/mind set that is IMO, appropriate for a child in first class, regardless.

The conversation should start with putting the the child's welfare etc first and centre of any discussion.
.
Anything I have learned in this space says it's in a child's DNA to avoid accountability and responsibility for as long as possible, so bear that in mind.
If that means manipulating/exploiting mammy/daddy/situations, then tough, I didn't chose them anyway.:)

Keep well and I wish you the best for you and your child/ren

Vestiapx

Bobtheman wrote: »

You must live in a very sheltered environment. Let's say your boss does that to you and you complain. You can kiss your promotion prospects good bye. Let's say the boss is the owner. Get real

Not at all, losing your temper is a big no no anywhere i have worked but maybe its ok in your profession what do you do?

Garibaldi?

Vestiapx wrote: »

Not at all, losing your temper is a big no no anywhere i have worked but maybe its ok in your profession what do you do?

Losing your temper is never acceptable but it does happen and people do get away with it in all walks of life. But that's not really the point here. A number of pupils have told their parents that the teacher lost his/her temper with a pupil and those adults have contacted the pupil's parent. The parent has to decide on the best course of action. The rather unkind and graphic "red face and spit"" detail frankly smacks of pupils who probably don't fancy being required to "knuckle down after lockdown" and have decided to clip teacher's wings a little. Don't rise to the bait. Ask to meet with the teacher and make a reasonable enquiry as to what happened.The teacher is clearly anxious that the child progress. The child was not just left idle. Both parent and child have the same objective.

Treppen

irishgrover wrote: »

Hi Byhook...
This is the only class where my child is not doing well, academically and otherwise. We contacted the YH previously and had a conversation with the teacher. We shared the clinical reports in terms of manifestations of difficulties and specifically the recommendations in terms encouragement, positive triggers etc.

The response from the teacher was that their class was full of high achievers and they had limited time or resources to deal with students with specific or special needs and that the child should go to the non honours class. This may be 100% true in the perception of this teacher, however if is at odds with the behaviour of all other teachers in the school.

That's a big no-no in my book, a teacher can't abdicate their responsibility just because the child has a learning difficulty. We've had students with dyslexia getting over 600 points in our school.

"Accordingly, subject teachers should ensure that they plan their lessons carefully to address the diverse needs within the classroom. They may need to adapt their teaching approaches for some students whose application, motivation, communication, behaviour or interaction with peers are causes of concern. This may require targeted interventions to develop relevant adaptive skills related to these needs. Students should be provided with opportunities to be active participants in their own learning through lessons that are carefully planned to include independent and collaborative tasks and reinforcement of skills’ development. All subject teachers should implement teaching approaches and methodologies that facilitate the meaningful inclusion of students with special educational needs."

So.. ask the teacher how have they adapted their teaching approaches if they try and fob you off with the high-achievers malarkey. I suspect you'll get nowhere with this teacher but asking the Principal for their Inclusion Policy and if the teachers have had any training in SEN would change their tune. I know the type of teacher you are talking about but they simply cannot say they don't have time to educate your child because of an SEN.

That's from the 2017 Guidelines for Supporting Students with Special Educational Needs. PG 13 ... Role of the classroom teacher. Download Here

In fairness I found students with dyslexia generally tend to find languages/English the hardest but it can be done.

Ok so a student forgot their book, so what.. I've forgotten my teacher's book before... take note of it, get over it. Shouting doesn't contribute anything to your child's education. Your child also didn't disrupt the class in any way.

This business about accepting it because they might have a boss like this in the future!!! I'm having none of it, the point is ... Don't accept it because you might have a boss like this in the future, don't be a walkover to anyone. In my experience the people who call other people out rarely get walked on.

Bobtheman

Vestiapx wrote: »

Not at all, losing your temper is a big no no anywhere i have worked but maybe its ok in your profession what do you do?

I'm a teacher and we all lose our tempers
I think I have said everything I'm going to say on this topic but you are in some fantasy world where employers or people don't act irrationally and get away with it. Day in day out.. Anyway if I want fantasy I will switch on the TV.
I'm glad in your career you don't witness it but don't extrapolate your life to humanity. Perhaps you worked in a monastery!!
<snip>

Bobtheman

Vestiapx wrote: »

Not at all, losing your temper is a big no no anywhere i have worked but maybe its ok in your profession what do you do?

Treppen wrote: »

That's a big no-no in my book, a teacher can't abdicate their responsibility just because the child has a learning difficulty. We've had students with dyslexia getting over 600 points in our school.


So.. ask the teacher how have they adapted their teaching approaches if they try and fob you off with the high-achievers malarkey. I suspect you'll get nowhere with this teacher but asking the Principal for their Inclusion Policy and if the teachers have had any training in SEN would change their tune. I know the type of teacher you are talking about but they simply cannot say they don't have time to educate your child because of an SEN.

That's from the 2017 Guidelines for Supporting Students with Special Educational Needs. PG 13 ... Role of the classroom teacher. Download Here

In fairness I found students with dyslexia generally tend to find languages/English the hardest but it can be done.

Ok so a student forgot their book, so what.. I've forgotten my teacher's book before... take note of it, get over it. Shouting doesn't contribute anything to your child's education. Your child also didn't disrupt the class in any way.

This business about accepting it because they might have a boss like this in the future!!! I'm having none of it, the point is ... Don't accept it because you might have a boss like this in the future, don't be a walkover to anyone. In my experience the people who call other people out rarely get walked on.

Mother of God. You really believe this don't you. An employee who calls out their boss goes off to live happily ever after. Depends on the employment. Depends who owns it etc. How secure your employment is. A variety of factors. We all have to work with difficult and imperfect situations. Except unless we live in a fantasy world.
Adieu

Garibaldi?

What matters here is the best outcome for the pupil. You'll find that the teacher is au fait with the theory and the practice of inclusion. To confront the teacher with policies with which he/she is doubtlessly familiar is certainly ones right as a parent. However, in the present uncertain and challenging aftermath of Lockdown it will hardly endear the person to that teacher who is diligently attempting to play catch-up. I think that this parent needs to talk to the teacher, quietly making him/her aware that the pupil was upset at the way he/she was spoken to, and suggesting the exploration of solutions to this problem, given the child's difficulty with organisation. What I most emphatically would not do is mention what the other parents said.In the interests of the entire group this would be best avoided. The priority is to get everyone back on track.

Vestiapx

Garibaldi? wrote: »

Losing your temper is never acceptable but it does happen and people do get away with it in all walks of life. But that's not really the point here. A number of pupils have told their parents that the teacher lost his/her temper with a pupil and those adults have contacted the pupil's parent. The parent has to decide on the best course of action. The rather unkind and graphic "red face and spit"" detail frankly smacks of pupils who probably don't fancy being required to "knuckle down after lockdown" and have decided to clip teacher's wings a little. Don't rise to the bait. Ask to meet with the teacher and make a reasonable enquiry as to what happened.The teacher is clearly anxious that the child progress. The child was not just left idle. Both parent and child have the same objective.

my original question asks whether its acceptable if the description is accurate. its clear that if the kids are lying that there is no issue but we don't know.

Treppen

Garibaldi? wrote: »

What matters here is the best outcome for the pupil. You'll find that the teacher is au fait with the theory and the practice of inclusion. To confront the teacher with policies with which he/she is doubtlessly familiar is certainly ones right as a parent. However, in the present uncertain and challenging aftermath of Lockdown it will hardly endear the person to that teacher who is diligently attempting to play catch-up. I think that this parent needs to talk to the teacher, quietly making him/her aware that the pupil was upset at the way he/she was spoken to, and suggesting the exploration of solutions to this problem, given the child's difficulty with organisation. What I most emphatically would not do is mention what the other parents said.In the interests of the entire group this would be best avoided. The priority is to get everyone back on track.

From working with teachers , a lot are not 'au fait' , some often think that a student with an additional need is someone else's problem like the learning support teacher or outside agencies. Also there is often the perception that a learning difficulty = an inability to achieve 100% in a subject... hence why they might be suggesting Ordinary level.

Very very very few know about the 2017 guidelines.

What I would emphatically do is outline what happened. Including being contacted by other separate parents. The truth is the truth.

The OP seems very measured and factual , usually these things rile parents to the point of becoming angry with responses from teachers on here (as has happened in umpteen threads before, sometimes warranted sometimes not). So I would have faith in this parent putting all the cards on the table, and listening to the teacher.

Garibaldi?

Originally Posted by Garibaldi? View Post
Losing your temper is never acceptable but it does happen and people do get away with it in all walks of life. But that's not really the point here. A number of pupils have told their parents that the teacher lost his/her temper with a pupil and those adults have contacted the pupil's parent. The parent has to decide on the best course of action. The rather unkind and graphic "red face and spit"" detail frankly smacks of pupils who probably don't fancy being required to "knuckle down after lockdown" and have decided to clip teacher's wings a little. Don't rise to the bait. Ask to meet with the teacher and make a reasonable enquiry as to what happened.The teacher is clearly anxious that the child progress. The child was not just left idle. Both parent and child have the same objective.
my original question asks whether its acceptable if the description is accurate. its clear that if the kids are lying that there is no issue but we don't know.
__________________
This too shall pass. If I were that parent I wouldn't spend another nano second of head time on what the other pupils or their parents have said. I would make an appointment with that teacher and let the person know that the pupil himself/herself was upset about what happened in school. If the teacher spoke too robustly it is right to make him/her aware of this. Communication is key. Maybe it's something the teacher needs to reflect upon. I would ask the teacher for his/her professional opinion on how the whole situation might be addressed. Is it possible that the pupil, although working at honours level in other subjects, is punching above his/her weight in this one? Sometimes a lack of organisation concerning class textbooks/materials etc signals the subconscious desire to avoid a particular task. This is not to deny neurodiversity, to suggest that the pupil does not have a genuine difficulty with self-organisation. This pupil may be feeling anxious and overwhelmed and unfortunately the cracks are appearing in this particular subject area.The teacher may reply that the pupil is perfectly capable of sitting honours. If so, the parties involved can work from there.

spurious

Calling other posters names is not acceptable in this forum.
Some examples and responses have been deleted. Please keep things civil.

Have you considered working with your child to help them not make such basic errors as 'forgetting' their books? In current circumstances teachers can't even run down to the photocopier and copy it for the child, or ask them to share with someone else. Whatever extra steps the teacher goes to to accommodate your child (which almost always results in neglect of other children) it is all for naught if they do not turn up with the minimum needed to partake in the lesson, i.e. the books. This is the real issue here, not the teachers overreaction (if it is true).

I think it is highly likely that your child said something cheeky when they were given out to for forgetting their book that tipped the teacher over the edge.

teachinggal123

I am genuinely stunned and shocked that people are blaming the child here and saying that it is acceptable for a teacher to lose their temper in this way.

BuzzMcdonnell

I think it’s a bit unfair here to presume the child did something else to provoke the teacher other than forget their book. There seems to be a bit of an attitude from some that a teacher can do no wrong and somehow the op’s child and the other children are exaggerating the story.

I completed the leaving certificate in 2018 at 19 years of age. I have seen teachers go red in the face to the point where spit has come out of their mouth for relatively minor issues with students. I have seen teachers react in completely unnecessary ways that would not be accepted in any other line of work. I have no reason to lie about my experience with teachers as a now almost 22 year old entering my final year of university.

I’ve seen students do worse things in university without anything close to such an out of proportion reaction by my lecturers/tutors/professors. Is it possible it is because a minority and I emphasise minority, of teachers think they can treat and speak to children worse than they would if dealing with adults? I don’t know.

Garibaldi?

The teacher did not assault the child. Full stop. He/she could probably have been kinder. True. The teacher is probably aware of that himself/herself. But to pursue that issue is to flog a dead horse.These issues are frequently fuelled by onlookers who have nothing to lose by meddling and passing comments. Like people who stop at the scene of an accident although they have nothing to contribute to assisting the injured. The pupil at the centre of this story could find himself/herself embroiled in a time and energy consuming "I said, he/she said" scenario, The sort of self-righteous and non-productive drama which diverts a pupil's attention from the actual purpose of being in school. The spectators will have long forgotten the incident and will be concentrating on passing their exams. The parent needs to carefully consider how he/she will address this situation. I would certainly let the teacher know that my child had been upset. Then I would swiftly move on in search of a solution.

teachinggal123

Garibaldi? wrote: »

The teacher did not assault the child. Full stop. He/she could probably have been kinder. True. The teacher is probably aware of that himself/herself. But to pursue that issue is to flog a dead horse.These issues are frequently fuelled by onlookers who have nothing to lose by meddling and passing comments. Like people who stop at the scene of an accident although they have nothing to contribute to assisting the injured. The pupil at the centre of this story could find himself/herself embroiled in a time and energy consuming "I said, he/she said" scenario, The sort of self-righteous and non-productive drama which diverts a pupil's attention from the actual purpose of being in school. The spectators will have long forgotten the incident and will be concentrating on passing their exams. The parent needs to carefully consider how he/she will address this situation. I would certainly let the teacher know that my child had been upset. Then I would swiftly move on in search of a solution.

Would you have this attitude if your boss did the exact same thing to you? Shouted and screamed in your face until spit can out and you were afraid you’d get assaulted they were so angry. Would this be your attitude?

I agree that it was not “assault”. Would you call it abuse?

Edited to add - if the story is true do you think the teacher should be sanctioned in any way?

jrosen

OP I think the best thing you can do is contact the teacher and ask for a meeting and take it from there. You could ask that the year head sit in on this meeting.
I would start by asking them to explain in their own words what happened that day. They may have been having a particularly bad day (no excuse) but could hold their hands up and accept the part they played. Or of course they could have a different version. Its hard to know what to do when you only have one side. While I find teens have a tendency to exaggerate there is often truth to what they have to say. Its also common for people to play down their actions in order to deflect from what they have done.

Home and school have to work together to create a environment where a student can be successful. Perhaps this is an opportunity for you all to try and come up with some strategies that will help your daughter in school.

Garibaldi?

jrosen wrote: »

OP I think the best thing you can do is contact the teacher and ask for a meeting and take it from there. You could ask that the year head sit in on this meeting.
I would start by asking them to explain in their own words what happened that day. They may have been having a particularly bad day (no excuse) but could hold their hands up and accept the part they played. Or of course they could have a different version. Its hard to know what to do when you only have one side. While I find teens have a tendency to exaggerate there is often truth to what they have to say. Its also common for people to play down their actions in order to deflect from what they have done.

Home and school have to work together to create a environment where a student can be successful. Perhaps this is an opportunity for you all to try and come up with some strategies that will help your daughter in school.

I think this is great advice.

Treppen

Gerardo Faithful Stowaway wrote: »

Have you considered working with your child to help them not make such basic errors as 'forgetting' their books? In current circumstances teachers can't even run down to the photocopier and copy it for the child, or ask them to share with someone else. Whatever extra steps the teacher goes to to accommodate your child (which almost always results in neglect of other children) it is all for naught if they do not turn up with the minimum needed to partake in the lesson, i.e. the books. This is the real issue here, not the teachers overreaction (if it is true).

I think it is highly likely that your child said something cheeky when they were given out to for forgetting their book that tipped the teacher over the edge.

If a child forgetting a book tips a teacher over the edge then the teacher has real serious issues.

I deal with about 150 students a day... do you honestly think not one of them will come in without a book, pencil, homework not done, homework not taken down, forget to get a note signed? I'm in the wrong job if I'm going to be tipped over the edge on a daily basis because of that.

Treppen

Treppen wrote: »

If a child forgetting a book tips a teacher over the edge then the teacher has real serious issues.

I deal with about 150 students a day... do you honestly think not one of them will come in without a book, pencil, homework not done, homework not taken down, forget to get a note signed? I'm in the wrong job if I'm going to be tipped over the edge on a daily basis because of that.

Try reading it again.

Random sample

Am I the only one wondering how anyone knew how if the teacher had spit coming out of their mouth if they were wearing a mask?

Garibaldi?

Random sample wrote: »

Am I the only one wondering how anyone knew how if the teacher had spit coming out of their mouth if they were wearing a mask?

Gosh you're right! And presumably it was just the forehead that turned red!(unless we are to add "anti-masker" to this person's vices;););)

Garibaldi?

Random sample wrote: »

Am I the only one wondering how anyone knew how if the teacher had spit coming out of their mouth if they were wearing a mask?

Perhaps this observation calls into question the veracity of the whole incident. Still, even as a hypothetical situation it requires comment.The teacher in question could have chosen to take the line of least resistance here. It would have been much easier. When the pupil appeared without the required resources the teacher could have said"Don't worry about it. Try and follow the lesson as best you can". It's highly debatable whether that would have been in the child's interest. Maybe the child would take it as a licence to arrive unprepared the next time. Perhaps others in the class might also. If the teacher is subjected to the third degree about the incident,will he/she be predisposed to keeping a low profile in the future, to keeping one's head below the parapet when an assertive stand would benefit a pupil in the long-term? How will other teachers view the situation? They may become wary of this pupil and of his/her parents.They will not want to draw trouble down on their own heads. The job can be challenging enough without that. The child is in First Year and has a long way to go in the school.While the parent has the right and the duty to protect the child, the best approach, as a rule, is the non-confrontational, low -profile, conciliatory one.

Jeremy Sproket

jrosen wrote: »

They may have been having a particularly bad day

am_zarathustra wrote: »

Occasionally even good, balance teachers will have a bad day. .

Bad day? I have bad days but I've never lashed out at anyone in work because I would be severely sanctioned, brought in front of HR sent home etc, if I did.
Why aren't teachers punished the same? Oh, right, because they're untouchable.

In that case the teacher should apologise to the student, the parent and do it humbly in front of the class.

am_zarathustra wrote: »

Although often there are two sides to a story I will say I've seen a small minority of teachers belittle students due to an inability to contextualize a situation. Occasionally even good, balance teachers will have a bad day. .

If someone in the private sector behaved like that they would (rightfully) be out on their ass. Why is that allowed to happen?

amacca

Jeremy Sproket wrote: »

Bad day? I have bad days but I've never lashed out at anyone in work because I would be severely sanctioned, brought in front of HR sent home etc, if I did.
Why aren't teachers punished the same? Oh, right, because they're untouchable.

In that case the teacher should apologise to the student, the parent and do it humbly in front of the class.



If someone in the private sector behaved like that they would (rightfully) be out on their ass. Why is that allowed to happen?

In what job in the private sector are you the boss and expected to achieve outcomes with the people you instruct where a significant cohort of the people you are supposed to instruct do the exact opposite of what you ask them to do (and these are not unreasonable requests - - you know bring materials, carry out simple tasks, don't disrupt others, make a reasonable effort etc) putting the quality of their outcomes in jeopardy and their colleagues and making the working environment an incredibly stressful and tense place on a regular basis for everyone except themselves and the significant number of students that come to school with zero intention of doing anything but disrupt, bully and intimidate.

If you want to compare to the private sector lets not compare apples to oranges .... what job in the private sector where you need minimum degree and postgrad to work there are you expected remain powerless in the face of dip****tery like that on a continuous basis?

Flinty997

A teacher pupil relationship is entirely different to work. That's a ridiculous comparison. Children are not adults. That makes its entirely different.

Flinty997

I've often found you hear about what happens in school or class from other parents and pupils. It's not that unusual.

You'll often hear consistent stories from pupils and parents about teachers they've had in the past.
So while you can dismiss one or few reports. Many reports over years are very credible. Be that about a good teacher as well everything else.

Flinty997

irishgrover wrote: »

....Any feedback would be appriciated

Depends on the school. Usually I've had best outcomes going through the headmaster. Ask them how to deal with it.

It maybe the class and teacher are not a good match with the child. But I'd let the school come up with some suggestions.