Part time farming

nqtfarmer

I often think of the story of Sean Kelly as a young lad working on the farm before getting a summer to race on the continent, he returned to the farm in the Autumn until a European cycling manager travelled the country only to find Sean topping a field in South Tipp. Imagine if Sean had said that May, ‘nope there’s silage to be done’
Not that I'm an amazing athlete or anything but I farm part time and work full time with a young family and right now, I find the farm can hold you back. In terms of promotion, any more hours at the day job will impact the farm, hobbies and sports become negligible because it's a tough sell to spend all day Saturday farming to go compete on a Sunday. Have you ever found yourself curbing a passion or promotion because you know that at the end of the day, you've your jobs to get done?

Hard Knocks

nqtfarmer wrote: »

I often think of the story of Sean Kelly as a young lad working on the farm before getting a summer to race on the continent, he returned to the farm in the Autumn until a European cycling manager travelled the country only to find Sean topping a field in South Tipp.
Not that I'm an amazing athlete or anything but I farm part time and work full time with a young family and right now, I find the farm can hold you back. In terms of promotion, any more hours at the day job will impact the farm, hobbies and sports become negligible because it's a tough sell to spend all day Saturday farming to go compete on a Sunday. Have you ever found yourself curbing a passion or promotion because you know that at the end of the day, you've your jobs to get done?

Coarse you do, but it can make us better
Farming with a full time job means you have to plan more, but there are compromises
I’ve not topped nor stacked bales on out farm in 3 years, I now get contractors to do it, which frees up time for family or whatever
Farming shouldn’t be a burden

youllbemine

Many's a good man who didn't take an opportunity because of the farm. Family relation took over the farm at 18 after death of his father. Spent the next 40 years getting by on the bad land. He is a genius of the man and was set for a mechanical engineering degree. Who knows what that would have done for him. But at the end of it all, he's a happy man albeit a bachelor. You have plenty of options and choices throughout your life. You gotta shape it the way you want it to look.

nqtfarmer

That’s what I’m hoping, can see the massive benefits in being raised on a farm but sometimes it just feels constant. One thing affects another but everything is just a stage

kollegeknight

nqtfarmer wrote: »

I often think of the story of Sean Kelly as a young lad working on the farm before getting a summer to race on the continent, he returned to the farm in the Autumn until a European cycling manager travelled the country only to find Sean topping a field in South Tipp. Imagine if Sean had said that May, ‘nope there’s silage to be done’
Not that I'm an amazing athlete or anything but I farm part time and work full time with a young family and right now, I find the farm can hold you back. In terms of promotion, any more hours at the day job will impact the farm, hobbies and sports become negligible because it's a tough sell to spend all day Saturday farming to go compete on a Sunday. Have you ever found yourself curbing a passion or promotion because you know that at the end of the day, you've your jobs to get done?

My Principal’ husband is a farmer and she is all the time telling me the farm is not worth the effort and there are easier ways to excel in life. I’m middle management bit I’ve no plans going higher with the lads and atm would prefer the farmwork as extra work load. Ask me that if cattle break out.

As from hobbies etc. I gave up my muster supporters club membership years ago as I’d no time to go. Definitely won’t go now for a few years with the young crowd.

Went back Coaching a bit of soccer last year but depends on OHs work hours and not looking likely this year.

Am doing a bit of running as can go when free. Did 80km last year but only on 35 for this week as busy at work.

ruwithme

Depends on the individual really. Some are quite easy to long finger tasks & take a relaxed approach to them.others won't rest till the same tasks are done asap.

Personally speaking i try & order these same tasks in a priority order. For me it's the only way,otherwise you'd near never rest. (Surprising how many tasks aren't a immediate priority when you take time & think about them. )

I know what you mean op by your post.passage of time may guide you,if it's not too late by then for other opportunities.

carrollsno1

See two brothers where i work theyd be on serious twine but an opportunity to progress further came up and the fella not farming went for it and got it. I reckon if i was ever in the position to get to the top like that id be leasing the farm and maybe holding onto a bit around the house.
Was going to rear a good blast of calves this spring and get going at home myself but i realised i was only going to be burning myself out if i did it and could end up having an accident driving to/from work and thats not worth it one bit. See enough lads my age working all hours for very little around here, lockdown suits them now i suppose but ive a very different view on living compared to them.

kerryjack

I usually buy everything and do every bit of maintennce in the spring months and stay out of the agri stores and builders merchants for rest of year, not much done around here june july and August, The shorts go on and I am in holiday mode and its beer and barbecue time, I am lucky enough I work 7 to 1 most days it suits me and my employer I kind of created the position to suit my lifestyle.

Someyolk

A lot depends on the size of the farm and the mindset. I know two friends with 30 odd acres each who think they have 200. Talking about all they’ve to do and how hard it is to keep the job and the farm going and keep herself happy.
On the other hand another good friend has 150 acres, a lot of stock and a very good job, a working wife and a young family. He takes it in his stride. The place is well set up, sheds, fencing etc all good. Seems to do everything right. He never gives out about either the farm or the job. The farm hasn’t held him back and the job hasn’t let the farm suffer.

Albert Johnson

Someyolk wrote: »

A lot depends on the size of the farm and the mindset. I know two friends with 30 odd acres each who think they have 200. Talking about all they’ve to do and how hard it is to keep the job and the farm going and keep herself happy.
On the other hand another good friend has 150 acres, a lot of stock and a very good job, a working wife and a young family. He takes it in his stride. The place is well set up, sheds, fencing etc all good. Seems to do everything right. He never gives out about either the farm or the job. The farm hasn’t held him back and the job hasn’t let the farm suffer.

I'm not making excuses for those in the above examples but what is land quality like for the 30 acres compared to the 150 acres. By this I mean that 30 acres of poor land would take the same if not more management and labour that 150 acres of good ground.

The 150 acres would also probably have allowed previous generations to farm full-time and they might have had better facilities built up over the year's. If your friend was in the high tax bracket then it would suit him to invest in the farm and avail of tax write offs. Compare this to someone with a lesser acreage, less money coming in and it's a lot harder to invest in facilities that would leave life easier all round. All the above is based off assumptions and I could be way off the mark but it's very difficult to streamline a farming operation on small marginal farm's without massive investment of money that probably won't be sustainable from on farm income.

farawaygrass

Someyolk wrote: »

A lot depends on the size of the farm and the mindset. I know two friends with 30 odd acres each who think they have 200. Talking about all they’ve to do and how hard it is to keep the job and the farm going and keep herself happy.
On the other hand another good friend has 150 acres, a lot of stock and a very good job, a working wife and a young family. He takes it in his stride. The place is well set up, sheds, fencing etc all good. Seems to do everything right. He never gives out about either the farm or the job. The farm hasn’t held him back and the job hasn’t let the farm suffer.

100%. Things come easy to some people snd it’s not by chance.
One thing I’m starting to realise is that people would think it’s mad spending 10k on handling facilities or fencing, or even a a couple of k on a fully trained working dog, but wouldn’t think it odd spending the 10k plus on a bit of machinery that might be used a couple of times a year of putting it into a keep that’s not really needed.
All them things will come if you can get the work done efficiently, and not dread doing it.
I wish I thought like that thought when I was starting out, but we can we like magpies attracted to the shiney metal!

carrollsno1

farawaygrass wrote: »

100%. Things come easy to some people snd it’s not by chance.
One thing I’m starting to realise is that people would think it’s mad spending 10k on handling facilities or fencing, or even a a couple of k on a fully trained working dog, but wouldn’t think it odd spending the 10k plus on a bit of machinery that might be used a couple of times a year of putting it into a keep that’s not really needed.
All them things will come if you can get the work done efficiently, and not dread doing it.
I wish I thought like that thought when I was starting out, but we can we like magpies attracted to the shiney metal!

Auld fella here is extremely anti fencing and anti making life easier but he seems happy enough to tip away at it with the job as well. I just cant get my head around it at all, i wouldnt be able to sleep knowing ive no fence on the boundary.

kk.man

In short the answer to your question is yes, farming holds you back. I might have several promotions by now only for it. Do I regret it, no because I'm addicted to farming. I'd wish to do it full time but that's not possible with the amount of land available to me. It's very hard to serve two masters.

Grueller

Promotion is a cock anyhow. Working like a dog for years to look like you are capable, then get the promotion and have extra responsibility heaped on.
I have had one in a previous job worth €9000 per annum. I did it for one year and handed it back. I got €4000 in my hand from it and it cost me about 8 hours per week. €10 per hour in my hand. Not a hope of me doing that.

Albert Johnson

farawaygrass wrote: »

100%. Things come easy to some people snd it’s not by chance.
One thing I’m starting to realise is that people would think it’s mad spending 10k on handling facilities or fencing, or even a a couple of k on a fully trained working dog, but wouldn’t think it odd spending the 10k plus on a bit of machinery that might be used a couple of times a year of putting it into a keep that’s not really needed.
All them things will come if you can get the work done efficiently, and not dread doing it.
I wish I thought like that thought when I was starting out, but we can we like magpies attracted to the shiney metal!

I suppose the difference there is that shiny metal is instant gratification where as other investments are more of a slow burn and it's only over time you see the benefits. I'm still fully in agreement with you and it's amazing the amount of lads that will drop 10s of thousands on a piece of equipment they have little use for and wouldn't fence the land, put in roadways, facilities ect that would see daily use.

There's plenty of lad's who would drive a €50,000 tractor or jeep tipping about doing feck all and yet if it came to buying a bull would tell you that €1500 was plenty to spend. I'm becoming more and more of the opinion that money spent (wisely) on fencing or handling facilities is money well spent. There's no fortune out of drystock whatever way you look at it but pallets, rotten baling twine, cornering stock behind gates ect is a way of adding extra misery to the experience.

Dinzee Conlee

Grueller wrote: »

Promotion is a cock anyhow. Working like a dog for years to look like you are capable, then get the promotion and have extra responsibility heaped on.
I have had one in a previous job worth €9000 per annum. I did it for one year and handed it back. I got €4000 in my hand from it and it cost me about 8 hours per week. €10 per hour in my hand. Not a hope of me doing that.

Ha - got ‘promoted’ too a while back... Good bump in wages...
After I had a look at what was involved, dealing with a very **** customer, working all hours...
Not worth it...

Worked a job before like that, high hours every week, almost on call all the time... So, said fcuk that... damaged my career prospects in the place I am, but don’t regret turning em down one bit...

It’s a funny thing - do a good job and you’re rewarded with more work

Someyolk

Albert Johnson wrote: »

I'm not making excuses for those in the above examples but what is land quality like for the 30 acres compared to the 150 acres. By this I mean that 30 acres of poor land would take the same if not more management and labour that 150 acres of good ground.

The 150 acres would also probably have allowed previous generations to farm full-time and they might have had better facilities built up over the year's. If your friend was in the high tax bracket then it would suit him to invest in the farm and avail of tax write offs. Compare this to someone with a lesser acreage, less money coming in and it's a lot harder to invest in facilities that would leave life easier all round. All the above is based off assumptions and I could be way off the mark but it's very difficult to streamline a farming operation on small marginal farm's without massive investment of money that probably won't be sustainable from on farm income.

Yeah you are right in a way. The big farm was full time years ago but he has invested too with sheds and some land also.
All land I mention would be average. The main difference i think is the attitudes. He has 5 times the stock of the other men and he can still spend an hour talking to a neighbour on the road on a Saturday morning. All because he is organised. He has little machinery and contracts out all slurry and silage where as one of the smaller lads makes his own bales and puts out his own slurry with newish machinery.
I suppose to answer the op’s question it depends on the individual if the farm will hold you back in your career or if You will let it hold you back.
The way I see work and and depending on the industry of course, the more work you do the more You will get to do. Then promotion with more work and responsibility and more hours. The extra money with tax the way it is just isn’t worth it. If you’ve a bit of land you are better at home in the evening’s with family (rather than working late in an office/site) and use the farm as tax efficiently as you can.

ruwithme

What might be overlooked in looking at how others cope so well at part time farming is the availability of a father/Mother,uncle,spouse e.t.c on farm also or close by who might run errands,look at stock in a shed or field &other little reliefs. Undoubtedly a massive help to someone farming & attending a full-time job .

Jb1989

ruwithme wrote: »

What might be overlooked in looking at how others cope so well at part time farming is the availability of a father/Mother,uncle,spouse e.t.c on farm also or close by who might run errands,look at stock in a shed or field &other little reliefs. Undoubtedly a massive help to someone farming & attending a full-time job .

+1

biblio

https://youtu.be/SFEQRQTDbHM?t=65
I often think of what Billy Coleman said about other career Vs farming .

emaherx

nqtfarmer wrote: »

Not that I'm an amazing athlete or anything but I farm part time and work full time with a young family and right now, I find the farm can hold you back. In terms of promotion, any more hours at the day job will impact the farm, hobbies and sports become negligible because it's a tough sell to spend all day Saturday farming to go compete on a Sunday. Have you ever found yourself curbing a passion or promotion because you know that at the end of the day, you've your jobs to get done?

Definitely passed up promotions and opportunities in my off farm career because of the farm and I don't regret it either. I even left a good position in a large multinational with plenty of opportunity for advancement at the beginning of this year in favor of a more agri orientated career. I was never big into sport, a bit of recreational cycling and swimming with the kids is about the height of it. As for hobbies and interests, mine involve mechanics, electronics and engineering and projects with the kids, I find the farm has been a great place to bring these things together and worth a lot more to me than putting in more hours working for a large company that will continue on the same with or without me. In 16 years working for the same company I had put a lot into several of their projects only for contracts to change hands and months or years of my work to simply disappear, at least with the farm at home there is some lasting accomplishment for me in everything I do to improve the place. I often see lads commenting on lost potential income if I did things a different way but I do things the way I enjoy doing them while ensuring they remain manageable and profitable.

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Coarse you do, but it can make us better
Farming with a full time job means you have to plan more, but there are compromises
I’ve not topped nor stacked bales on out farm in 3 years, I now get contractors to do it, which frees up time for family or whatever
Farming shouldn’t be a burden

I've probably got one of the most mechanized small farms around and don't rely much on contractors. But then again nearly all of my machines are antiques which have been here since a time when my Dad farmed a much bigger farm. Working with and on machines is one of the parts of farming that I enjoy the most. I do agree that the farm should not be a burden and we all need to draw our own lines as to where it may become a burden.

ruwithme wrote: »

Depends on the individual really. Some are quite easy to long finger tasks & take a relaxed approach to them.others won't rest till the same tasks are done asap.

Personally speaking i try & order these same tasks in a priority order. For me it's the only way,otherwise you'd near never rest. (Surprising how many tasks aren't a immediate priority when you take time & think about them. )

I know what you mean op by your post.passage of time may guide you,if it's not too late by then for other opportunities.

I more or less have a list of major tasks required to be done for the place, but its a fairly dynamic list with items moving up or down the list according to the feasibility of being done in the short term depending on available time/funds and the weather etc.

Albert Johnson wrote: »

I'm not making excuses for those in the above examples but what is land quality like for the 30 acres compared to the 150 acres. By this I mean that 30 acres of poor land would take the same if not more management and labour that 150 acres of good ground.

The 150 acres would also probably have allowed previous generations to farm full-time and they might have had better facilities built up over the year's. If your friend was in the high tax bracket then it would suit him to invest in the farm and avail of tax write offs. Compare this to someone with a lesser acreage, less money coming in and it's a lot harder to invest in facilities that would leave life easier all round. All the above is based off assumptions and I could be way off the mark but it's very difficult to streamline a farming operation on small marginal farm's without massive investment of money that probably won't be sustainable from on farm income.

It is very easy to judge from a distance. I only took over the farm here 3 years ago after my Dad passed away, as much as I loved farming with him he was a fair bit of a rooter and was reluctant to allow much change from his ways. since taking over I have invested in improving perimeter fences and water infrastructure, I've also gathered up several loads of scrap and filled a few skips with the junk that was lying about. Over the next few I plan on improving existing sheds, internal fences and handling facilities, but Rome wasn't built in a day either. I don't plan any particularly massive investments as like you say the return wouldn't be there for a very long time but I will chip away with a mix of DIY, off the shelf and secondhand.

ruwithme wrote: »

What might be overlooked in looking at how others cope so well at part time farming is the availability of a father/Mother,uncle,spouse e.t.c on farm also or close by who might run errands,look at stock in a shed or field &other little reliefs. Undoubtedly a massive help to someone farming & attending a full-time job .

Absolutely, I wouldn't be doing half of what I am at the moment without the support of a few family members.

Kevhog1988

Ive never found that working at home causes me any issues but i would be on a very small scale. The thing i find about the day job is i can often take an hour during the day to do something but seem to get as much if not more done than others in the same role.
If i was to be moving up the ladder any more than i currently am i would be asking to go in as a contractor and set up my own company for tax purposes. At a certain stage a couple of k increase in wages can mean feck all squared at the end of the month. Got a bonus last month and paid over half in tax

carrollsno1

Kevhog1988 wrote: »

Ive never found that working at home causes me any issues but i would be on a very small scale. The thing i find about the day job is i can often take an hour during the day to do something but seem to get as much if not more done than others in the same role.
If i was to be moving up the ladder any more than i currently am i would be asking to go in as a contractor and set up my own company for tax purposes. At a certain stage a couple of k increase in wages can mean feck all squared at the end of the month. Got a bonus last month and paid over half in tax

Engineer was explaining how they get the easter bonus relative to company performance he put most of it into the pension last year just to make it worth getting. Tax system is a balls here from what i can make of it is if you earn €1 over the treshold youre whole income is taxed at the higher rate. I worked out my projected income when qualified being conservative too as i reckon there is room for more at €60,000/annum, i compared it to the Australian taxation system which has a few tiers and only taxes the income in each tier at that rate it came back as being $7000 better off on there system compared to ours this also included paying a medicare levy and you would also benefit from all the other benefits of living over there.

Someyolk

carrollsno1 wrote: »

Engineer was explaining how they get the easter bonus relative to company performance he put most of it into the pension last year just to make it worth getting. Tax system is a balls here from what i can make of it is if you earn €1 over the treshold youre whole income is taxed at the higher rate. I worked out my projected income when qualified being conservative too as i reckon there is room for more at €60,000/annum, i compared it to the Australian taxation system which has a few tiers and only taxes the income in each tier at that rate it came back as being $7000 better off on there system compared to ours this also included paying a medicare levy and you would also benefit from all the other benefits of living over there.

If you earn €1 extra and it brings you into the higher tax bracket you pay the higher tax rate on that €1 not on anything else.

carrollsno1

Someyolk wrote: »

If you earn €1 extra and it brings you into the higher tax bracket you pay the higher tax rate on that €1 not on anything else.

I stand corrected, ive foubd it awful hard to figure out how it works over here.

Kevhog1988

carrollsno1 wrote: »

I stand corrected, ive foubd it awful hard to figure out how it works over here.

Yeah you only pay on the amount in the higher bracket. Last place i was at used to be giving us all types of subsistence payments in lieu of salary but its no use when your going to the bank for a mortgage.

carrollsno1

Kevhog1988 wrote: »

Yeah you only pay on the amount in the higher bracket. Last place i was at used to be giving us all types of subsistence payments in lieu of salary but its no use when your going to the bank for a mortgage.

Were lucky to get Subsistence when away from base but some crews are on it all year round, €8,800 in the arse pocket at the end of the year all the same if you can get it.

Tileman

carrollsno1 wrote: »

Engineer was explaining how they get the easter bonus relative to company performance he put most of it into the pension last year just to make it worth getting. Tax system is a balls here from what i can make of it is if you earn €1 over the treshold youre whole income is taxed at the higher rate. I worked out my projected income when qualified being conservative too as i reckon there is room for more at €60,000/annum, i compared it to the Australian taxation system which has a few tiers and only taxes the income in each tier at that rate it came back as being $7000 better off on there system compared to ours this also included paying a medicare levy and you would also benefit from all the other benefits of living over there.

U hand it wrong there. U pay lower rate (20% I think] up to about 35€k. Anything over that u pay at the higher rate

duffysfarm

Work full time as a self employed office job and have 30 acres as well. Worked hard to get where i am in work and i know for a fact that the farming side is holding me back big time at work but would gladly give up the day job to go farming full time if i could!

Siamsa Sessions

nqtfarmer wrote: »

I often think of the story of Sean Kelly as a young lad working on the farm before getting a summer to race on the continent, he returned to the farm in the Autumn until a European cycling manager travelled the country only to find Sean topping a field in South Tipp. Imagine if Sean had said that May, ‘nope there’s silage to be done’
Not that I'm an amazing athlete or anything but I farm part time and work full time with a young family and right now, I find the farm can hold you back. In terms of promotion, any more hours at the day job will impact the farm, hobbies and sports become negligible because it's a tough sell to spend all day Saturday farming to go compete on a Sunday. Have you ever found yourself curbing a passion or promotion because you know that at the end of the day, you've your jobs to get done?

Far-away hills are always greener.

But if you've decided the farm is holding you back, then do something about it. That young family is only borrowed and they'll be up and gone soon.

If it's any help, I farm part-time and work off-farm 3 days/week. Our place was leased out for over 15 years and I slowly took back a few fields at a time since 2015. If I knew then what I know now, I don't think I'd have taken it on. I didn't realise how much work was needed to get it to where it's heading today. Fencing, water, reseeding, building stock numbers, learning how to manage at technical/animal level and financial level. I've invested way too many hours in it.

But I am where I am and there's no going back. I can see how the hours invested are paying off now. I am simplifying the enterprise(s) and cutting back on stock numbers. The hours needed on a weekly basis will reduce. And I have an understanding of the world now that I would never have had if I stayed in the office job 5 days/week. I'm hoping a more-rounded Daddy will help our young lads too, as well as them now being reared on a farm rather than just in a nice suburban house.

I guess what I'm saying is that things change all the time.

Simplify whatever farming you're at. Or failing that, get out of farming. Have a think about it, ask questions on here, and then decide. There's too many variables in the world to try and process all the permutations (I've been that fool!). Decide and move on.

popa smurf

Walked away from family farm 30 odd years ago, done the greencert and went on farm placement. Went to a good farm well paid and appreciated not like I was at home and never really settled after going back, got mind for a bit of independence, the drink and the women all needed to be paid for so took a job with local plant hire guys and no time for farming moved to dublin mid 90s driving machines met herself on a night out in McGowan in dublin and the rest is history, The only regret I have is my kids didn't grow up on a farm they don't have the same work ethic as we had, A farmers son were highly saugh after on the building sites of Dublin Londan and Newyork and still today they stand out from the rest