Is this sort of repair even legal?

Top Dog

Work colleague sent me a link to this tonight, and it left me speechless. Didn't know where else to post it, hence the new thread.

I thought cut and shut repairs were illegal at this stage? Not only has the business posted the extent of the damage, they've also kindly included the registration so that it can be avoided in future.







Link to their public Facebook post with more photos - https://www.facebook.com/2556446967915835/posts/3131250760435450/

L1011

The normal idea of a cut and shut would be two crashed vehicles as donors, that rear end appears to be an actual repair part...somehow.

Is that repair preferable to pulling out the chassis and replacing the outer skins?

Toyotafanboi

There's a bigger collection of images than those three doing the rounds, the back end isn't repair panels, it's a cut section from another damaged Rav4.

A bit like that fella who does the repairs in the facebook videos, it took talent to get that car back looking well but IMO it shouldn't have been repaired. No one could predict how that would fare out in another accident.

PsychoPete

Why would you even bother going through that hassle, just have it written off and be done with it

greasepalm

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

There's a bigger collection of images than those three doing the rounds, the back end isn't repair panels, it's a cut section from another damaged Rav4.

A bit like that fella who does the repairs in the facebook videos, it took talent to get that car back looking well but IMO it shouldn't have been repaired. No one could predict how that would fare out in another accident.

Whats the worst that could happen as they part for their different ways:eek::eek:

shtpEdthePlum

Two lots of people possibly died in those wrecks.

CoBo55

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

There's a bigger collection of images than those three doing the rounds, the back end isn't repair panels, it's a cut section from another damaged Rav4.

A bit like that fella who does the repairs in the facebook videos, it took talent to get that car back looking well but IMO it shouldn't have been repaired. No one could predict how that would fare out in another accident.

You don't need a woman with a crystal ball to tell you how that yoke will fare in a smash, goodnight Dick to all who sail in her:mad::mad:
It ain't the only one on our roads like that.

mickdw

PsychoPete wrote: »

Why would you even bother going through that hassle, just have it written off and be done with it

Cant be right. Its a cut n shut in every sense.

That Aurthur fella on youtube at least takes them apart piece by piece and puts back all internal panels as per factory.
This looks nuts.
201 RN 444

L1011

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

There's a bigger collection of images than those three doing the rounds, the back end isn't repair panels, it's a cut section from another damaged Rav4.

Assumed from them being in primer. Even if had been a repair part it's still on the extreme side of a repair.

PsychoPete wrote: »

Why would you even bother going through that hassle, just have it written off and be done with it

It probably was written off and bought for salvage value. Most cases of serious damage to a car >1 year old are write offs as per the insurance policy, but the 'wreck' (can be quite minorly damaged, or not at all if its a stolen recovered) will be sold on.

shtpEdthePlum wrote: »

Two lots of people possibly died in those wrecks.

Not a chance.

A rear end collision isn't going to kill anyone and a front end collision that does is likely to have a Cat A (or 1, or whatever the current equivalent is here) status where parts cannot be recovered.

bazz26

PsychoPete wrote: »

Why would you even bother going through that hassle, just have it written off and be done with it

It was written off by the insurance company no doubt but the damaged car was sold on as salvage and somebody obviously bought it to repair and sell it on again for a profit. The problem now is that the car's true history may not follow it and a future owner maybe totally oblivious to it.

CoBo55

shtpEdthePlum wrote: »

Two lots of people possibly died in those wrecks.

Followed by a third set in that death trap. Some profit made on that yoke:mad:

maestroamado

bazz26 wrote: »

It was written off by the insurance company no doubt but the damaged car was sold on as salvage and somebody obviously bought it to repair and sell it on again for a profit. The problem now is that the car's true history may not follow it and a future owner maybe totally oblivious to it.

If a car is written-off by an insurance company afaik the vin number is recorded and that car cannot be made legal again for insurance purposes....

Jake.

How is this industry not regulated ?

I've worked in the electrical industry for years where there's inspection and oversight

E36Ross

Perfectly fine assuming they drilled and then rewelded all the factory spot welds, not like they got a con saw and used a stick welder.

If done properly, no real difference to how it'd be assembled by the robots on the production line.



Lads will cry about this, But a lad welding a Mk2 Escort chicken coup in a shed with a stick welder will get praised for saving it.

Mimon

Looking at a video on their Facebook, yer man is spraying a car with no breathing protection, look to me to be complete chancers.

Oops!

Even if you are going to do that sort of job for whatever reasons what sort of a clown puts up all those pics and even the reg on facebook for the world to see!

Mimon

E36Ross wrote: »

Perfectly fine assuming they drilled and then rewelded all the factory spot welds, not like they got a con saw and used a stick welder.

If done properly, no real difference to how it'd be assembled by the robots on the production line.



Lads will cry about this, But a lad welding a Mk2 Escort chicken coup in a shed with a stick welder will get praised for saving it.

You would buy it for one of your children to drive, or your mother?

Toyotafanboi

L1011 wrote: »

Assumed from them being in primer. Even if had been a repair part it's still on the extreme side of a repair.

If you look through the link you'll see an image with the white bootlid test fitted and the rear windscreen, spoiler and badges are already fitted to the bootlid which wouldn't be the case with a repair panel. Generally OE repair panels are supplied pre primed in matte black.

E36Ross wrote: »

Perfectly fine assuming they drilled and then rewelded all the factory spot welds, not like they got a con saw and used a stick welder.

If done properly, no real difference to how it'd be assembled by the robots on the production line.



Lads will cry about this, But a lad welding a Mk2 Escort chicken coup in a shed with a stick welder will get praised for saving it.

Look at how the D-pillar is cut. Lord Jaysis. That's nothing even remotely close to how an OE repair should be done. It's literally been chopped and butted back together. There was no spot weld drilling on this, you can clearly see it's been sawn.

Bass Reeves

Twas decent of them to put the number of that tub if sh!t up.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

Gotta be honest,

Last year I would've said that thing is a death trap and wouldn't want to be near it on the road etc.

But having seeing how cars are put together, quite frankly honestly, thats nothing.

When you see all the skins from the side of cars hanging from a rack like pigs in a butchers fridge and they just get a few welds together to make a square shape it is scary to think they go on the road. I'm being very honest when I say there's nothing in them and not much in the welding either.

So honestly ? I'm sure that Rav4 from kinsella is fine. I just don't like Toyota so I wouldn't bother with it anyway.

L1011

maestroamado wrote: »

If a car is written-off by an insurance company afaik the vin number is recorded and that car cannot be made legal again for insurance purposes....

There are multiple categories of write off and not all are terminal

Toyotafanboi

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

Gotta be honest,

Last year I would've said that thing is a death trap and wouldn't want to be near it on the road etc.

But having seeing how cars are put together, quite frankly honestly, thats nothing.

When you see all the skins from the side of cars hanging from a rack like pigs in a butchers fridge and they just get a few welds together to make a square shape it is scary to think they go on the road. I'm being very honest when I say there's nothing in them and not much in the welding either.

So honestly ? I'm sure that Rav4 from kinsella is fine. I just don't like Toyota so I wouldn't bother with it anyway.

It's how the skins intertwine that gives them their strength to stay formed, but they are designed to crumple to absorb an impact, just so, to protect the occupant.

The chassis rails have been chopped clean off and butt welded back together by the looks of those photos.

The back if that yoke will snap off if it's impacted again.

bazz26

maestroamado wrote: »

If a car is written-off by an insurance company afaik the vin number is recorded and that car cannot be made legal again for insurance purposes....

There are different level of write-off categories for insurance purposes. That does not automatically mean the car cannot be repaired and put back on the road. Also insurance write-off information is not very transparent here to the general public.

Larbre34

An OEM repair part? Lol

Dear Mr Toyota, please send me 1 No. 'More or less' 30% of a Rav4 back end.

Thats an appalling bit of work to accept. Appalling. Somebody's kids could be killed in the back of that shytbox.

endacl

Which end has a valid VIN?!?

TallGlass2

I think theres a bit more to just spot welding in the factory, after the welding there is a fair bit of fancy computer work that ensures the welds are up to the job and the structure is square, amoungst other tests on the car. Seen it on one of them How They Do It.

That said why not just break it? Seems like an awful amount of effort.

Atlantic Dawn

The hybrid battery on these is in the back, I can only imagine how that is lashed together...

maestroamado

L1011 wrote: »

There are multiple categories of write off and not all are terminal

A young guy from here sold a car about a year ago, then the buyer came back and said that the car had being written-off in the UK without the knowledge of any of the parties. He did get a report to say that the car was ok and the sale went through.
I did not really understand and i could not ask, personally i would not have a problem welding bits if i knew the guy doing and it was for me...
To be fair it takes talent to do this...

Jake.

TallGlass2 wrote: »

I think theres a bit more to just spot welding in the factory, after the welding there is a fair bit of fancy computer work that ensures the welds are up to the job and the structure is square, amoungst other tests on the car. Seen it on one of them How They Do It.

That said why not just break it? Seems like an awful amount of effort.

$$

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

It's how the skins intertwine that gives them their strength to stay formed, but they are designed to crumple to absorb an impact, just so, to protect the occupant.

The chassis rails have been chopped clean off and butt welded back together by the looks of those photos.

The back if that yoke will snap off if it's impacted again.

Yeah I get what you're trying to say but honestly, I've seeing the entire process on a few different models now and all I'll say is the process in the factory doesn't fill me with hope at all.

They don't seem that stable to me at all, the metal being so thin you'd poke a screw driver through the body without any rust on it. Underbody, sides , the lot.

The process of the skins being pieced together isint at intertwined as you make it I don't think, again looking at the japs do it, it's really just a bit of welding here and there and out it goes.

Ok sure they won't just "fall off the road" but I've absolutely no faith in surviving a serious accident in a brand new car with no damage, never mind that Rav4.

And I'll say it again, they did a decent job, the quality they did is quite high and OE spec I would say, because quite honestly what goes on in several japanese company factories that I've seen is shockingly bad. Brand New cars coming off the line with massive defects sending them back as scrap to be dismantled, re-used and rebuilt again. Unreal carry on some of the stuff I've seen so far.

The best one was a rag in the oil sump of a car and it wasn't caught.... I can't for the life of me work that one out but anyway !

TallGlass2

Jake. wrote: »

$$

Surely given the age, breaking it would return more a profit over time?

I do think some lads get notions sometimes and can't disconnect when something is just a bad idea and shouldn't be done.

It's rife on YouTube. Lads putting fully burnt out cars back on the road.

L1011

maestroamado wrote: »

A young guy from here sold a car about a year ago, then the buyer came back and said that the car had being written-off in the UK without the knowledge of any of the parties. He did get a report to say that the car was ok and the sale went through.
I did not really understand and i could not ask, personally i would not have a problem welding bits if i knew the guy doing and it was for me...

A car can be written off for very little damage at all, either under a first year replacement policy or if parts are dear - my own car would be written off with a slight front corner whack that took out the bumper, wing, wheel and driveshaft based on current part supply but it would be easily repairable.

There are also write off categories where the car cannot be returned to the road or even its parts can't be reused

E36Ross

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Look at how the D-pillar is cut. Lord Jaysis. That's nothing even remotely close to how an OE repair should be done. It's literally been chopped and butted back together. There was no spot weld drilling on this, you can clearly see it's been sawn.

Seems to be exactly how the OE panels are done, Can also buy the rails and rear floor as separate parts from Toyota......




Link here if anyones bored, Shows all the sperate body parts you can buy for them,

https://www.oemgenuineparts.com/v-2020-toyota-rav4--hybrid-xle--2-5l-l4-electric-gas/body--quarter-panel-and-components

wotzgoingon

I watched over the past 2 or 3 months a guy doing the same on YouTube. He is making a evo wagon and used a standard evo body with a lancer wagon and welded it up the same way the OP's car is done. So the floor and bottom half at the back is a evo and the upper part is from a standard lancer wagon.

But most cars aren't made up of one big piece of steel they are glued and spot welded the same way he done his Frankenstein wagon is done. It took a lot of work and he even said himself in the videos it was more work than he was expecting.

mickdw

E36Ross wrote: »

Seems to be exactly how the OE panels are done, Can also buy the rails and rear floor as separate parts from Toyota......




Link here if anyones bored, Shows all the sperate body parts you can buy for them,

https://www.oemgenuineparts.com/v-2020-toyota-rav4--hybrid-xle--2-5l-l4-electric-gas/body--quarter-panel-and-components

Thats an outer quarter panel - a skin as such. You will find toyota will have all joints in different places as you go in through the layers of bodywork. Im far from convinced that these guys did a proper rebuild here.

Jake.

I know little about cars but I'm shocked at the lack of regulation coming from the electrical industry

I mean isn't there a thing called type testing where the manufactured chassis acts in a certain way in a crash

Something assembled randomly is not predictable in an accident ?

Toyotafanboi

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

And I'll say it again, they did a decent job, the quality they did is quite high and OE spec I would say,

Then it is quite clear, unfortunately, that you have absolutely no idea about what you are commenting on, sorry.

E36Ross wrote: »

Seems to be exactly how the OE panels are done, Can also buy the rails and rear floor as separate parts from Toyota......




Link here if anyones bored, Shows all the sperate body parts you can buy for them,

https://www.oemgenuineparts.com/v-2020-toyota-rav4--hybrid-xle--2-5l-l4-electric-gas/body--quarter-panel-and-components

That image is an outer quarter panel skin, it's popular to cut the outer skin there for a cosmetic repair. That part doesn't contain the inner panel and shouldn't be confused with an entire 1/4 cut from another car.

kirving

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

hanging from a rack like pigs in a butchers fridge and they just get a few welds together to make a square shape it is scary to think they go on the road. I'm being very honest when I say there's nothing in them and not much in the welding either.

But every single weld from the factory is precisely designed through dozens if not hundreds of simulations and real world crash tests to prove its compliance.

There once was a relationship between how beefy a component looked, and how much force it could endure, but that's been broken down by FEA simulation and newer materials.

They could have done a good job, it probably would hold up in the vast majority of accidents, but I wouldn't be betting against Toyota's chassis engineering department in favour of a few lads in a shed for the sake of a few grand.

E36Ross

mickdw wrote: »

Thats an outer quarter panel - a skin as such. You will find toyota will have all joints in different places as you go in through the layers of bodywork. Im far from convinced that these guys did a proper rebuild here.

In theory it's possible as all the panels can be purchased separately.

wotzgoingon

Reg should be 666 not 444 as you will meet the devil when you crash that yoke.

Oops!

Jake. wrote: »

I know little about cars but I'm shocked at the lack of regulation coming from the electrical industry

I mean isn't there a thing called type testing where the manufactured chassis acts in a certain way in a crash

Something assembled randomly is not predictable in an accident ?

Assembled randomly?? I'm sure whoever did the job didn't put it back together in their spare time at the wknd.:rolleyes: To the untrained eye this looks bad.... But the truth is none of us know what exactly has been done and in what way... In otherwords the full story.... That's why i stated already it was a bad idea to post these pics on a public facebook page....

Toyotafanboi

At least the cut section is massive, encompassing the entire rear subframe and all the rear seatbelt anchors so when it splits in half the rear seat occupants will be securely tethered to the rear half of the vehicle and wherever it choses to go.

Oops!

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

At least the cut section is massive, encompassing the entire rear subframe and all the rear seatbelt anchors so when it splits in half the rear seat occupants will be securely tethered to the rear half of the vehicle and wherever it choses to go.

Give over with the scaremongering..... No need for it.

Toyotafanboi

E36Ross wrote: »

In theory it's possible as all the panels can be purchased separately.

Yer man has swan straight through 1, 7, 14, 15 and possibly 12. That diagram is proof that it's been done wrong.

Oops!

That diagram proves nothing....

Toyotafanboi

Oops! wrote: »

Give over with the scaremongering..... No need for it.

Ah look, i'll never be in it and i dont get off on "please think of the children", i dont honestly care, but if we're discussing the repair method based on those photos, it looks well finished but the process is terrible and simply not right.

Chances of it being rear ended again are slim but honestly if by slim chance it gets rear ended again as hard as it did the first time, the rear seat occupants will be worse off, no question.

Oops!

But how do you know that?

kirving

Oops! wrote: »

Give over with the scaremongering..... No need for it.

Let's reverse that logoc for a second.

Would you prefer to sit in the back seat of that car, or another RAV4, and be hit from the side by a truck?

E36Ross

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Yer man has swan straight through 1, 7, 14, 15 and possibly 12. That diagram is proof that it's been done wrong.

Not on the repair panels, Most looks to be as per the diagram.

Oops!

It wouldn't be a good experience and possibly fatal anyway no matter if it was the RAV 4 in question or another one fresh out of the showroom if a 10 ton or more truck was involved.

Toyotafanboi

Oops! wrote: »

But how do you know that?

College and industry experience.

You dont need to know a lot about cars or engineering to look at how that car has been reconnected vs the cross section you can see to appreciate how it's rigidity is compromised.

Look at the section cut of the D pillar and how 4 different skins are all folded into one another to give it strenght, they rely on being in their original form. Cutting straight through it, butting another section up to it and running a weld around the outside of it and skimming it with filler offers a fraction of the strength it once had.