2 story extension semi detached

Augustduck

Hi all, has anyone experience getting planning for a two story extension of a semi detached? I want to convert my garage to a living space and add a story above the garage to add in an extra bedroom. I dont see many 2 story garage conversions in my area. In my town having drove around to different estates I have only come across 2. Is this because they are not allowed? Most houses in my area are occupied by original owners to the houses built in the 1960s, most people are elderly and would have no need to extend so i dont know if this is the reason or if it is because difficult to get planning.

JimmyVik

I think you might find that next to impossible to get PP for nowadays.

KingCong

JimmyVik wrote: »

I think you might find that next to impossible to get PP for nowadays.

Why may I ask? I see loads of 2 story extensions like this around my area, both older ones and some very recent or currently under construction.

The Mighty Quinn

Well, in Limerick City I spotted this house the other day, 17 Corrib Drive, apply for planning to add a storey over the existing garage.
If you check the planning pages, I'm sure you'll find their drawings for it.

https://goo.gl/maps/5VDwktfzB8NBaYaA8

I see this done. I won't say a lot, but definitely doesn't seem unusual to me, at all. I can't see it being particularly difficult to get planning permission for.

Augustduck

Thanks, there are a couple of end of terrace houses in my estate that have done it - they have extra big gardens to the side but no houses that are in the same position as me. If i rang the planning office in my area, would they be able tell me if there was a blanket rule against this or would i have to put planning in and take it from there.

Augustduck

Oh how come? Is this a blanket rule?

sydthebeat

Augustduck wrote: »

Oh how come? Is this a blanket rule?

theres no blanket rule... its not an unusual application.

have a pre-planning consultation before going any further to suss out the planers opinion on such applications

Gumbo

Augustduck wrote: »

Hi all, has anyone experience getting planning for a two story extension of a semi detached? I want to convert my garage to a living space and add a story above the garage to add in an extra bedroom. I dont see many 2 story garage conversions in my area. In my town having drove around to different estates I have only come across 2. Is this because they are not allowed? Most houses in my area are occupied by original owners to the houses built in the 1960s, most people are elderly and would have no need to extend so i dont know if this is the reason or if it is because difficult to get planning.

Is the garage attached to the property?

JimmyVik

It used to be done a lot, but they dont really give planning very much for two story extensions on semis anymore afaik.
As was said above, speak to the planners before applying

muffler

JimmyVik wrote: »

I think you might find that next to impossible to get PP for nowadays.

Can you post up details please?

JimmyVik

muffler wrote: »

Can you post up details please?

Tried it myself on a couple of houses over the last few years.
Speaking to planners they said it was a no go.


When is the last time you have seen anyone in a terraced or a semi get PP for a two story extension?


Now you might get it if its far away from the house attached to you, but talk to the planner and he will tell you exactly what the policy of the day is.

Augustduck

Thanks, I just made an appointment in pre planning clinic, next available is not til the end of May so that should give me a better idea. Would love to hear of anyones experience if they were successful in getting permission for a 2 story conversion over garage of a semi detached. Have been tracking the sunlight - have an east facing garden and dont think it would effect neighbours light

Gumbo

JimmyVik wrote: »

It used to be done a lot, but they dont really give planning very much for two story extensions on semis anymore afaik.
As was said above, speak to the planners before applying

I’ve gotten permission for many over the last 2 years.
Once the daylight test is demonstrated it can aid your application a lot.

Gumbo

JimmyVik wrote: »

Tried it myself on a couple of houses over the last few years.
Speaking to planners they said it was a no go.


When is the last time you have seen anyone in a terraced or a semi get PP for a two story extension?


Now you might get it if its far away from the house attached to you, but talk to the planner and he will tell you exactly what the policy of the day is.

Got it recently for a house in sandyford. Another on a house in artane.
Just about to lodge another in SDCC.

Gumbo

Augustduck wrote: »

Thanks, I just made an appointment in pre planning clinic, next available is not til the end of May so that should give me a better idea. Would love to hear of anyones experience if they were successful in getting permission for a 2 story conversion over garage of a semi detached. Have been tracking the sunlight - have an east facing garden and dont think it would effect neighbours light

Can you answer my previous question. My oh may get more responses.

Is this a typical garage that’s attached to the side of an existing dwelling?

You should turn up to the pre planning clinic with a set of drawings showing your proposal.

Augustduck

Yes the garage is attached to property and neighbours garage is attached to my garage - image attached

muffler

JimmyVik wrote: »

Tried it myself on a couple of houses over the last few years.
Speaking to planners they said it was a no go.


When is the last time you have seen anyone in a terraced or a semi get PP for a two story extension?


Now you might get it if its far away from the house attached to you, but talk to the planner and he will tell you exactly what the policy of the day is.

I have done a job like this maybe 8 or 9 months ago and had no issues. Probably done about 6 or 7 of them approx in the last 10 years.

You say you tried this on a couple of houses - was this you as the owner or as the architect? Context here means a lot!

Gumbo

Augustduck wrote: »

Yes the garage is attached to property and neighbours garage is attached to my garage - image attached

Pretty straight forward here in Dublin.
I have received planning (as the agent) for many over the last few years with some this year and one just about to be lodged also.

chooseusername

Augustduck wrote: »

Yes the garage is attached to property and neighbours garage is attached to my garage - image attached

If your neighbour decided to do the same you would end up with
terraced houses.
I can't see that getting past the planners.

Gumbo

chooseusername wrote: »

If your neighbour decided to do the same you would end up with
terraced houses.
I can't see that getting past the planners.

Been done many times and still getting planning.
Why do you think it won’t get planning?

Gumbo

This is Dublin City, but all councils will have their own development plan.
Figure 1, Section 17, Page 210 in the attached document actually shows a 2 storey to the side extension and how to compliment the existing dwelling and get it through the planning process.

https://www.dublincity.ie/sites/default/files/2020-08/dublin-city-development-plan-2016-2022-volume-2.pdf

chooseusername

Gumbo wrote: »

Been done many times and still getting planning.
Why do you think it won’t get planning?

I assumed op was thinking of plonking a full width 2 storey extension
out to the front building line .
This could be refused in the op's case as it could lead to a 'terracing' effect
if the neighbour on his right did the same.
Your linked document does not deal with this.
However a subordinate extension, set back a metre from the building line
with a lower ridge height may well get permission.

The Mighty Quinn

chooseusername wrote: »

I assumed op was thinking of plonking a full width 2 storey extension
out to the front building line .
This could be refused in the op's case as it could lead to a 'terracing' effect
if the neighbour on his right did the same.

This happens all over the place. Often semi-ds with a garage on the side, where the garages share a common wall, and then somebody or both parties decide to convert or build up. Yes, creating a 'terracing' effect, but common and seen all the time.

Bass Reeves

Where the issues are OP is that you may need permission from your neighbors. You will after all interfere with there roof. As well your facia and soffit could overhang there property. If you try to keep it all on your property it will limit the width of the extension.

You should assertain what type of structure the dividing wall of the garages is. Is it 6'' block, cavity block or 4'' blocks using a cavity or even on the he flat.

You need to talk to your neighbors first and move on from there

jmBuildExt

Yep - Our estate (SDCC) is full of them. Originally 1970s semid-Ds with garage. Almost a novelty to see ones that haven't had the garage converted to 2 storey extension.

I know a guy that owned 2 of them side by side in another estate and got permission to demolish the garages and put a terraced house (separate dwelling) between them.

Not sure why, from a planning point of view, "terracing" would be so frowned upon.

jmBuildExt

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Where the issues are OP is that you may need permission from your neighbors. You will after all interfere with there roof. As well your facia and soffit could overhang there property. If you try to keep it all on your property it will limit the width of the extension.

You should assertain what type of structure the dividing wall of the garages is. Is it 6'' block, cavity block or 4'' blocks using a cavity or even on the he flat.

You need to talk to your neighbors first and move on from there

See the pic in post 17 - it wont go near OP's neighbour's roof/house.
OP doesn't have to talk to his neighbour (although I would as a courtesy) - but technically you don't need their permission.
This is done all the time - it can be left in such a way that you build on the boundary using parapet wall and the neighbour can do the same in future - all very standard.

Edit: See what you mean now about the neighbour's garage alright - i had amental block on that - But as i say, you don't strictly need the neighbour's permission, but doing it without them on board is not recommended.

Bass Reeves

jmBuildExt wrote: »

See the pic in post 17 - it wont go near OP's neighbour's roof/house.
OP doesn't have to talk to his neighbour (although I would as a courtesy) - but technically you don't need their permission.
This is done all the time - it can be left in such a way that you build up to the boundary using parapet wall and the neighbour can do the same in future - all very standard.

It's the roof of the garage I am referring to. The common wall of the garages may be the issue. The structure of this will d code if you can build directly on top. Your facia and soffit will overhand neighbors property, or else you go with a barge type finish. Another issue you will need to access outside of this wall from neighbouring property to plaster and finish it

While the existing garage roof is higher than neighbours garage roof what structure was this rise in height carried out with. Knowing the structure of garages on semid's they can vary among the senario's I outlined in previous post. I did point out you could do the complete structure on you side but it will reduce the width of the extension.

Like I said talk to neighbors and access your options

JimmyVik

OP, I would be interested to know how you get on with the planners on this.
Let us know what happens anyway.

chooseusername

The Mighty Quinn wrote: »

This happens all over the place. Often semi-ds with a garage on the side, where the garages share a common wall, and then somebody or both parties decide to convert or build up. Yes, creating a 'terracing' effect, but common and seen all the time.

I must admit I've never seen it, Baader Meinhoff will probably kick in now.
I just dropped Google man in a random south Dublin area and found
this;

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.284137,-6.2516229,3a,48.8y,115.62h,90.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZThRvfcIsdBs3nuef08Fsw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Planners probably wouldn't allow a gable.

houseyhouse

This is common where I live BUT there is a side passage between the garages of the original houses so even if both houses do a full height extension there's no 'terracing'. Many houses in the estate were built without the garage and with a very wide side passage instead. Somebody did apply to build onto one of those going all the way to the party line a few years ago and it was denied.

Goldengirl

Did this in Dublin a few years ago , but on end of row and had side passage .
Needed a lot of steel support even though lower level built properly with good foundations.
Might be better to price for knocking the garage completely and rebuilding the two storeys properly but yes understand that's a big undertaking .
My point being , we nearly did that anyhow

Augustduck

Thanks a mill for all the replies, seems to be possible anyway from many of your replies. had an architect come have a look and he didnt seem to think it would be any problem. have the planning meeting in couple of weeks so will see where i will go from there then.

Gumbo

Many examples of this.
One i passed today was https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.3787785,-6.2316158,3a,75y,18.94h,83.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ss8PeRdJE94nTzoJFlpAwww!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

244 Collins Avenue
Not my favourite design but it is what it is...

muffler

Gumbo wrote: »

Many examples of this.
One i passed today was https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.3787785,-6.2316158,3a,75y,18.94h,83.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ss8PeRdJE94nTzoJFlpAwww!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

244 Collins Avenue
Not my favourite design but it is what it is...

As my sister doesnt live too far from there I decided to have a wee "drive" along the avenue and lo and behold I found Dr. Who's Tardis sitting in the front garden of a house. Move forward a couple of meters and its gone!

chooseusername

muffler wrote: »

As my sister doesnt live too far from there I decided to have a wee "drive" along the avenue and lo and behold I found Dr. Who's Tardis sitting in the front garden of a house. Move forward a couple of meters and its gone!

If you travel back in time to July 2018 and look behind you it magically materialises with a red alien one.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.3781318,-6.2285371,3a,75y,261.7h,103.5t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sqjqq14SCD9ISY2bUd5sj1A!2e0!5s20180701T000000!7i16384!8i8192