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2 story extension semi detached

  • 26-04-2021 11:54am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 49 Augustduck


    Hi all, has anyone experience getting planning for a two story extension of a semi detached? I want to convert my garage to a living space and add a story above the garage to add in an extra bedroom. I dont see many 2 story garage conversions in my area. In my town having drove around to different estates I have only come across 2. Is this because they are not allowed? Most houses in my area are occupied by original owners to the houses built in the 1960s, most people are elderly and would have no need to extend so i dont know if this is the reason or if it is because difficult to get planning.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭ JimmyVik


    I think you might find that next to impossible to get PP for nowadays.


  • Registered Users Posts: 215 ✭✭ KingCong


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    I think you might find that next to impossible to get PP for nowadays.

    Why may I ask? I see loads of 2 story extensions like this around my area, both older ones and some very recent or currently under construction.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭ The Mighty Quinn


    Well, in Limerick City I spotted this house the other day, 17 Corrib Drive, apply for planning to add a storey over the existing garage.
    If you check the planning pages, I'm sure you'll find their drawings for it.

    https://goo.gl/maps/5VDwktfzB8NBaYaA8


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,162 ✭✭✭✭ KKV


    I see this done. I won't say a lot, but definitely doesn't seem unusual to me, at all. I can't see it being particularly difficult to get planning permission for.


  • Registered Users Posts: 49 Augustduck


    Thanks, there are a couple of end of terrace houses in my estate that have done it - they have extra big gardens to the side but no houses that are in the same position as me. If i rang the planning office in my area, would they be able tell me if there was a blanket rule against this or would i have to put planning in and take it from there.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 49 Augustduck


    Oh how come? Is this a blanket rule?


  • Subscribers Posts: 36,237 ✭✭✭✭ sydthebeat


    Augustduck wrote: »
    Oh how come? Is this a blanket rule?

    theres no blanket rule... its not an unusual application.

    have a pre-planning consultation before going any further to suss out the planers opinion on such applications


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,271 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    Augustduck wrote: »
    Hi all, has anyone experience getting planning for a two story extension of a semi detached? I want to convert my garage to a living space and add a story above the garage to add in an extra bedroom. I dont see many 2 story garage conversions in my area. In my town having drove around to different estates I have only come across 2. Is this because they are not allowed? Most houses in my area are occupied by original owners to the houses built in the 1960s, most people are elderly and would have no need to extend so i dont know if this is the reason or if it is because difficult to get planning.

    Is the garage attached to the property?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭ JimmyVik


    It used to be done a lot, but they dont really give planning very much for two story extensions on semis anymore afaik.
    As was said above, speak to the planners before applying


  • Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 43,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭ muffler


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    I think you might find that next to impossible to get PP for nowadays.
    Can you post up details please?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭ JimmyVik


    muffler wrote: »
    Can you post up details please?


    Tried it myself on a couple of houses over the last few years.
    Speaking to planners they said it was a no go.


    When is the last time you have seen anyone in a terraced or a semi get PP for a two story extension?


    Now you might get it if its far away from the house attached to you, but talk to the planner and he will tell you exactly what the policy of the day is.


  • Registered Users Posts: 49 Augustduck


    Thanks, I just made an appointment in pre planning clinic, next available is not til the end of May so that should give me a better idea. Would love to hear of anyones experience if they were successful in getting permission for a 2 story conversion over garage of a semi detached. Have been tracking the sunlight - have an east facing garden and dont think it would effect neighbours light


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,271 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    It used to be done a lot, but they dont really give planning very much for two story extensions on semis anymore afaik.
    As was said above, speak to the planners before applying

    I’ve gotten permission for many over the last 2 years.
    Once the daylight test is demonstrated it can aid your application a lot.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,271 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    Tried it myself on a couple of houses over the last few years.
    Speaking to planners they said it was a no go.


    When is the last time you have seen anyone in a terraced or a semi get PP for a two story extension?


    Now you might get it if its far away from the house attached to you, but talk to the planner and he will tell you exactly what the policy of the day is.

    Got it recently for a house in sandyford. Another on a house in artane.
    Just about to lodge another in SDCC.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,271 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    Augustduck wrote: »
    Thanks, I just made an appointment in pre planning clinic, next available is not til the end of May so that should give me a better idea. Would love to hear of anyones experience if they were successful in getting permission for a 2 story conversion over garage of a semi detached. Have been tracking the sunlight - have an east facing garden and dont think it would effect neighbours light

    Can you answer my previous question. My oh may get more responses.

    Is this a typical garage that’s attached to the side of an existing dwelling?

    You should turn up to the pre planning clinic with a set of drawings showing your proposal.


  • Registered Users Posts: 49 Augustduck


    Yes the garage is attached to property and neighbours garage is attached to my garage - image attached


  • Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 43,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭ muffler


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    Tried it myself on a couple of houses over the last few years.
    Speaking to planners they said it was a no go.


    When is the last time you have seen anyone in a terraced or a semi get PP for a two story extension?


    Now you might get it if its far away from the house attached to you, but talk to the planner and he will tell you exactly what the policy of the day is.
    I have done a job like this maybe 8 or 9 months ago and had no issues. Probably done about 6 or 7 of them approx in the last 10 years.

    You say you tried this on a couple of houses - was this you as the owner or as the architect? Context here means a lot!


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,271 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    Augustduck wrote: »
    Yes the garage is attached to property and neighbours garage is attached to my garage - image attached

    Pretty straight forward here in Dublin.
    I have received planning (as the agent) for many over the last few years with some this year and one just about to be lodged also.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,885 ✭✭✭ chooseusername


    Augustduck wrote: »
    Yes the garage is attached to property and neighbours garage is attached to my garage - image attached
    If your neighbour decided to do the same you would end up with
    terraced houses.
    I can't see that getting past the planners.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,271 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    If your neighbour decided to do the same you would end up with
    terraced houses.
    I can't see that getting past the planners.

    Been done many times and still getting planning.
    Why do you think it won’t get planning?


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,271 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    This is Dublin City, but all councils will have their own development plan.
    Figure 1, Section 17, Page 210 in the attached document actually shows a 2 storey to the side extension and how to compliment the existing dwelling and get it through the planning process.

    https://www.dublincity.ie/sites/default/files/2020-08/dublin-city-development-plan-2016-2022-volume-2.pdf


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,885 ✭✭✭ chooseusername


    Gumbo wrote: »
    Been done many times and still getting planning.
    Why do you think it won’t get planning?
    I assumed op was thinking of plonking a full width 2 storey extension
    out to the front building line .
    This could be refused in the op's case as it could lead to a 'terracing' effect
    if the neighbour on his right did the same.
    Your linked document does not deal with this.
    However a subordinate extension, set back a metre from the building line
    with a lower ridge height may well get permission.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭ The Mighty Quinn


    I assumed op was thinking of plonking a full width 2 storey extension
    out to the front building line .
    This could be refused in the op's case as it could lead to a 'terracing' effect
    if the neighbour on his right did the same.

    This happens all over the place. Often semi-ds with a garage on the side, where the garages share a common wall, and then somebody or both parties decide to convert or build up. Yes, creating a 'terracing' effect, but common and seen all the time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,612 ✭✭✭✭ Bass Reeves


    Where the issues are OP is that you may need permission from your neighbors. You will after all interfere with there roof. As well your facia and soffit could overhang there property. If you try to keep it all on your property it will limit the width of the extension.

    You should assertain what type of structure the dividing wall of the garages is. Is it 6'' block, cavity block or 4'' blocks using a cavity or even on the he flat.

    You need to talk to your neighbors first and move on from there

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 692 ✭✭✭ jmBuildExt


    Yep - Our estate (SDCC) is full of them. Originally 1970s semid-Ds with garage. Almost a novelty to see ones that haven't had the garage converted to 2 storey extension.

    I know a guy that owned 2 of them side by side in another estate and got permission to demolish the garages and put a terraced house (separate dwelling) between them.

    Not sure why, from a planning point of view, "terracing" would be so frowned upon.


  • Registered Users Posts: 692 ✭✭✭ jmBuildExt


    Where the issues are OP is that you may need permission from your neighbors. You will after all interfere with there roof. As well your facia and soffit could overhang there property. If you try to keep it all on your property it will limit the width of the extension.

    You should assertain what type of structure the dividing wall of the garages is. Is it 6'' block, cavity block or 4'' blocks using a cavity or even on the he flat.

    You need to talk to your neighbors first and move on from there

    See the pic in post 17 - it wont go near OP's neighbour's roof/house.
    OP doesn't have to talk to his neighbour (although I would as a courtesy) - but technically you don't need their permission.
    This is done all the time - it can be left in such a way that you build on the boundary using parapet wall and the neighbour can do the same in future - all very standard.

    Edit: See what you mean now about the neighbour's garage alright - i had amental block on that :) - But as i say, you don't strictly need the neighbour's permission, but doing it without them on board is not recommended.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,612 ✭✭✭✭ Bass Reeves


    jmBuildExt wrote: »
    See the pic in post 17 - it wont go near OP's neighbour's roof/house.
    OP doesn't have to talk to his neighbour (although I would as a courtesy) - but technically you don't need their permission.
    This is done all the time - it can be left in such a way that you build up to the boundary using parapet wall and the neighbour can do the same in future - all very standard.

    It's the roof of the garage I am referring to. The common wall of the garages may be the issue. The structure of this will d code if you can build directly on top. Your facia and soffit will overhand neighbors property, or else you go with a barge type finish. Another issue you will need to access outside of this wall from neighbouring property to plaster and finish it

    While the existing garage roof is higher than neighbours garage roof what structure was this rise in height carried out with. Knowing the structure of garages on semid's they can vary among the senario's I outlined in previous post. I did point out you could do the complete structure on you side but it will reduce the width of the extension.

    Like I said talk to neighbors and access your options

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭ JimmyVik


    OP, I would be interested to know how you get on with the planners on this.
    Let us know what happens anyway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,885 ✭✭✭ chooseusername


    This happens all over the place. Often semi-ds with a garage on the side, where the garages share a common wall, and then somebody or both parties decide to convert or build up. Yes, creating a 'terracing' effect, but common and seen all the time.
    I must admit I've never seen it, Baader Meinhoff will probably kick in now.
    I just dropped Google man in a random south Dublin area and found
    this;

    https://www.google.com/maps/@53.284137,-6.2516229,3a,48.8y,115.62h,90.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZThRvfcIsdBs3nuef08Fsw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
    Planners probably wouldn't allow a gable.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 613 ✭✭✭ houseyhouse


    This is common where I live BUT there is a side passage between the garages of the original houses so even if both houses do a full height extension there's no 'terracing'. Many houses in the estate were built without the garage and with a very wide side passage instead. Somebody did apply to build onto one of those going all the way to the party line a few years ago and it was denied.


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