Improving the stock ender 3: what to go for

iLikeWaffles

So have been printing pretty much daily since I got my Ender 3, about 3 weeks ago now. I'm looking at upgrading the springs first off because levelling is really hit and miss. Just touching the off the adjustment knob at the back power cable will cause the bed level to go out; really finicky. When the printer arrived this knob was loose in the box and the spring was a little bit stuck. Also I think my bed might be warped can't get a good consistent level. The corners have a noticeable difference in level compared to the middle. I'm having to double side a post it note for the corners to get a single side of a post it note to slightly touch the nozzle in the middle - is this normal?
Either way prints have been effected very little but I'm sure if I printed something large enough it might be a disaster.

These orange springs might be a purchase but not sure I like that there is 20 of them, does it mean they don't last?! Will upgrading to aluminium knobs make much difference.

Another thing I'm looking at is nozzles but what I've heard is the steps on the motor are what you want to match with, 0.04 steps. So multiples of this number is best to print at - i.e. layer height 1.2mm or 0.8, 0.4 etc for the 0.4mm nozzle - so if I have a 0.3 nozzle pointless printing at 0.6 or 0.9 but 1.2 etc would be okay, is this correct?
Also will printing with a 0.2 nozzle give better precision, this is something I'm looking to improve because prints can be ±0.5mm out.

The other thing I will be looking at is a firmware update, but it so happens I will need an Arduino Nano for a project so I can add a bootloader for the update before and use the Arduino for the project.

After this will have to get less noisy fans and maybe add some lighting wired into the mainboard. I'm not sure about moving to glass as the adhesion with the stock bed is fine, tbh.

geotrig

check what mb is in your ender 3 ?i presume its a vanilla ender 3 but if any of the 4.** MB is in it which some have got you can update from USB

Springs are good just firmer ,my motto now is if its working well dont change it on anything on it.

I didnt notice a huge difference between .4 and .2 nozzle (there was a slight improvement )but maybe I needed to print something more precise or tweak setting more

id say if bed is working for you know stick with it untill you need to change. i found the stock bed fine also

oscarBravo

iLikeWaffles wrote: »

Another thing I'm looking at is nozzles but what I've heard is the steps on the motor are what you want to match with, 0.04 steps. So multiples of this number is best to print at - i.e. layer height 1.2mm or 0.8, 0.4 etc for the 0.4mm nozzle - so if I have a 0.3 nozzle pointless printing at 0.6 or 0.9 but 1.2 etc would be okay, is this correct?

Nozzle diameter and layer height are not really correlated at all, apart from the fact that the nozzle diameter sets an upper limit on your layer height (you physically can't print a layer that's taller than your nozzle diameter, and you really shouldn't attempt bigger than about 0.75 of the nozzle).

The connection between motor steps and layer height is very well explained by CHEP:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIkT8asT90A

Kenny Logins

Do you have a glass bed on that?

Lucifer

Also you mentioned prints being 0.5mm out. Are you finding they are oversized always?

I watched a video that explains why. It is related to the nozzle size. Basically a 0.4mm nozzle will extrude 0.2mm each side of the center point of the nozzle. So if the nozzle were to move in a perfect square, say 100mm, you would expect the part to end up 100.4mm as there is 0.2mm more material on top of the path the nozzle took at each end.

It went on to say that when designing to allow for this, so if you want a 6 mm hole, design it at 6.4 mm and should give a good fit.

iLikeWaffles

Lucifer wrote: »

Also you mentioned prints being 0.5mm out. Are you finding they are oversized always?

I watched a video that explains why. It is related to the nozzle size. Basically a 0.4mm nozzle will extrude 0.2mm each side of the center point of the nozzle. So if the nozzle were to move in a perfect square, say 100mm, you would expect the part to end up 100.4mm as there is 0.2mm more material on top of the path the nozzle took at each end.

It went on to say that when designing to allow for this, so if you want a 6 mm hole, design it at 6.4 mm and should give a good fit.

Yes always oversized, printed a benchy the other day and this was not to spec, have not bothered to measure the exact yet. That kind of makes sense and just confirms something: you shouldn't have to account for that, Cura should be accounting for it. By the same logic if I changed the nozzle I would have to redesign? This seems like a major bug in Cura to me.

Think about it another way: cutting a piece of wood. If you cut exactly on the line you're loosing material (blade width / 2) this happens to be the complete wrong way to saw wood, btw. But if you cut after the line so the edge of the saw is at the line your piece of wood is exactly what was measured.

I've probably watched the same video and it goes on to say you have to measure how much it is off by and reprint with a -offset. That's the same as putting you finger in a leaky pipe.

iLikeWaffles

Kenny Logins wrote: »

Do you have a glass bed on that?

No, and I don't think I will be getting one.

iLikeWaffles

geotrig wrote: »

check what mb is in your ender 3 ?i presume its a vanilla ender 3 but if any of the 4.** MB is in it which some have got you can update from USB

Springs are good just firmer ,my motto now is if its working well dont change it on anything on it.

I didnt notice a huge difference between .4 and .2 nozzle (there was a slight improvement )but maybe I needed to print something more precise or tweak setting more

id say if bed is working for you know stick with it untill you need to change. i found the stock bed fine also

Is that mobo or mega bytes?? not sure which.

It is working well besides the inconsistency in the bed level corners/centre but I don't think springs will help there, I have noticed the extruder is at a slight angle on the x axis not sure if it supposed to be like this. I think I might have to adjust the belt tension also. I have been thinking about printing those X/Y belt tensioners to help with that. I'm with you on 'if it isn't broke'....

In terms of the bed.

1st step is always to get a ruler and lie it flat, across the bed. Check if it makes even contact the whole way across.
The one repeated complaint I see, regarding creality, is that their QC at this point is weak and thet do ship slightly warped beds.

mossym

mine is heavily modded, but if i was to pick the ones that i think are should do to any ender 3, in order i'd say

1) upgrade the main board , SKR mini e3 is pretty much a drop in replacement
2) the springs, cheap, effective upgrade
3) cooling fans ( i replaced with noctuas, what you go for here is based on your ability to wire in step down DC/DCs or stick with the stock voltages, but it's very easy)
4) glass bed

those have the biggest impact and what i'd look at first. after that you can print away a lot easier.

Kenny Logins

iLikeWaffles wrote: »

No, and I don't think I will be getting one.

Why not? It does make levelling and adhesion easier.

iLikeWaffles

Deleted User wrote: »

In terms of the bed.

1st step is always to get a ruler and lie it flat, across the bed. Check if it makes even contact the whole way across.
The one repeated complaint I see, regarding creality, is that their QC at this point is weak and thet do ship slightly warped beds.

It is really hard to tell if it is warped with a straight edge. The difference in level from the corners to the centre is probably 1/3rd the thickness of the post it note/paper. As I said though that and the springs make levelling a bit finicky but it is not a major issue as prints have been doing okay besides the wrong dimensions being printed.

iLikeWaffles

iLikeWaffles wrote: »

It is really hard to tell if it is warped with a straight edge. The difference in level from the corners to the centre is probably 1/3rd the thickness of the post it note/paper. As I said though that and the springs make levelling a bit finicky but it is not a major issue as prints have been doing okay besides the wrong dimensions being printed.

Oh, they've sent out much more noticeable variances

TychoCaine

Kenny Logins wrote: »

Why not? It does make levelling and adhesion easier.

+1 for this. I got the Ender 3 Pro off Amazon and it came with a Creality borosilicate (pyrex) glass bed in addition to the standard magnetic one. The prints just stick, and it's much easier to get a big print off a glass bed than the magnetic one.

Any issues with PETG?

TychoCaine

Deleted User wrote: »

Any issues with PETG?

PETG sticks like glue to glass. People report pieces of the glass bed coming away with the print when using PETG. I bought a roll recently and am planning to print on a layer of blue painter's tape. I'll update you once it's finished

mossym

Deleted User wrote: »

Any issues with PETG?

done all my petg printing on a glass bed. Petg can be hard to get the first layer right. i've never hard to use glue/hairspray with PLA, but usually give a spray of hairspray to help the PETG stick

the magnetic beds are much easier to the prints off, you can just pop them off and bend them to pull away. i'm using tough pla from 3djake at the moment for stronger prints on some woodworking tools and i've been cycling between two glass plates to pop them in the freezer when done to get the prints off.

Kenny Logins

TychoCaine wrote: »

PETG sticks like glue to glass. People report pieces of the glass bed coming away with the print when using PETG. I bought a roll recently and am planning to print on a layer of blue painter's tape. I'll update you once it's finished

I have used green Frogtape (with PLA) but it doesn't make it any easier to remove the print, I think it might even make it more difficult.

I haven't opened my roll of PETG yet, but I'm planning to print on glass with a layer of Pritt Stick or something.

iLikeWaffles

Only used PLA myself. Sounds like the bottom layer would do with some sort of support that would more easily break away for PETG.

iLikeWaffles

Springs and new level knobs arrived today and I installed. Definite difference in levelling. Centre of the bed does not have as much bite now but there is still a difference in level from corners to centre.

Question about the power cable clip on the ender 3. Should it have been installed like this from the get go:


I had it the opposite end before (closer to the soldered wires), I couldn't get the spring in this way. This was the knob that was a bit finicky. Have no choice but to install it the way it is in the image above with the new springs as the tension is too great the way it came installed. Springs are slightly taller mind you but the Amazon page says they're for an Ender 3. Just have to adjust the z stop switch a few mm.

AirBiscuit

My Ender 3 arrived yesterday, the printed instructions were poor but got it built.

Didn't even finish the first layer of one of the sample files before the Bowden tube disconnected at the extruder. No matter what way we fiddled with the connector, it wouldn't properly grip the PTFE so it would always work itself free.

Any recommendations for a new tube and better connectors? Preferably something I can get from Ireland because I don't feel like waiting the added time for something from Amazon to arrive.

mossym

did you put the blue cerclip like thing in place? that's the locking mechanism

capricorn tubing is the usual recommendation for upgraded tubing

AirBiscuit

mossym wrote: »

did you put the blue cerclip like thing in place? that's the locking mechanism

Every time I had to re-fit the tube to the connector. When I get home I'm going to try using the thicker clip which I was originally using for the hot end connector and see if that makes any difference, but I'm not holding out much hope.

iLikeWaffles

Just looking at a firmware update there. Seems I might have a 32bit board v4.2.2

Updated from card, took 5 seconds.

iLikeWaffles

Well feck...

Turns out there is a stupid bug with the firmware where `M0 ; Pause print` will not work. Something to do with how the firmware communicates with the LCD waiting for the user to click.

There is a workaround but it pauses the print a different way, same command as going into the menu and pausing the print `M25 ; Pause SD print`so you have to go into the menu and resume the print which is unnecessary distraction when levelling.

Fixed by compiling the latest version from GitHub! No you don't need to pay for open source all the software and code you need to compile is already free.

Are the glass bed plates all pretty much the same?

AirBiscuit

Watched a video discussing the differences between Marlin 1.9 and 2.0. I wondered which I had: Neither, as it turns out.
4.2.2 board though so 2.0 was A-OK, so I stuck an up-to-date version on it with manual bed levelling built in.

TychoCaine

AirBiscuit wrote: »

Watched a video discussing the differences between Marlin 1.9 and 2.0. I wondered which I had: Neither, as it turns out.
4.2.2 board though so 2.0 was A-OK, so I stuck an up-to-date version on it with manual bed levelling built in.

Did you compile Marlin from scratch, or download it pre-compiled from somewhere?

AirBiscuit

TychoCaine wrote: »

Did you compile Marlin from scratch, or download it pre-compiled from somewhere?

Compiled it, I had everything needed to compile it either way already installed.

iLikeWaffles

There isn't much to compiling it you just need Visual Studio Code and a couple of free plugins (platformio and auto build marlin). When you want to customise it can be tricky and you would want to at least know basics of coding. The only thing I customised in my compiled version was the order/name of the menu's and removing the swap media menu item. The print from Media menu item is miles down the page and requires scrolling to the bottom to get to it.

TychoCaine

iLikeWaffles wrote: »

There isn't much to compiling it you just need Visual Studio Code and a couple of free plugins (platformio and auto build marlin). When you want to customise it can be tricky and you would want to at least know basics of coding. The only thing I customised in my compiled version was the order/name of the menu's and removing the swap media menu item. The print from Media menu item is miles down the page and requires scrolling to the bottom to get to it.

I know, but life is too short. I got out of the compiling habit years ago when Linux distros stopped requiring you to compile every kernel update from source.

iLikeWaffles

TychoCaine wrote: »

I know, but life is too short. I got out of the compiling habit years ago when Linux distros stopped requiring you to compile every kernel update from source.

Compiling is short, you can literally have it done and installed in 2 minutes flat.

Or you can pay for a yearly subscription to pre built firmware which will take a lot longer than 2 minutes to set up.

AirBiscuit

I find that with the printable upgrades that deal with guiding the filament, they clicked and rattled like no tomorrow as the filament tended to slightly grip them. In particular, the arm that pushes into the top extrusion would grip so much that it would slightly bend until the filament slipped and the tension released. Needed to use teflon tape on the spool holder, the guide arm, and the extruder guide to stop the extra noise.

I did print a back cover for the LCD board

Has anyone put a BLTouch in a 4.2.7 mainboard?

iLikeWaffles

AirBiscuit wrote: »

I find that with the printable upgrades that deal with guiding the filament, they clicked and rattled like no tomorrow as the filament tended to slightly grip them. In particular, the arm that pushes into the top extrusion would grip so much that it would slightly bend until the filament slipped and the tension released. Needed to use teflon tape on the spool holder, the guide arm, and the extruder guide to stop the extra noise.

Yeah this is really annoying. First hearing it, I thought there was something up until I realised it is the tension and the spool. Seems to worsen as the spool is getting low. Doesn't help that the spool can rock back and forth also.

Have you an image of the fix?

AirBiscuit

iLikeWaffles wrote: »

Yeah this is really annoying. First hearing it, I thought there was something up until I realised it is the tension and the spool. Seems to worsen as the spool is getting low. Doesn't help that the spool can rock back and forth also.

Have you an image of the fix?

http://imgur.com/a/mOSTpwN

There are loads of different extruder guides so you might not need to do it like this, but the arm is very popular. It's a pain in the ass trying to get the tape on the arm though, (impossible I would say if you have the closed ring version).
I'm not sure if the tape is going to erode off and potentially clog the nozzle over time, so do at your own risk. The spool tape is already faded away a bit, but can be rotated around as needed.

iLikeWaffles

AirBiscuit wrote: »

There are loads of different extruder guides so you might not need to do it like this, but the arm is very popular. It's a pain in the ass trying to get the tape on the arm though, (impossible I would say if you have the closed ring version).
I'm not sure if the tape is going to erode off and potentially clog the nozzle over time, so do at your own risk. The spool tape is already faded away a bit, but can be rotated around as needed.

PTFE should not erode at all it absorbs friction very well. The tape may be more susceptible to damage, moulded Teflon might be good options.

Something similar/smaller than this with a 2-3mm hole could be ideal to sit into the top filament guide.

source: https://ningeplastics86.en.made-in-china.com/productimage/FZqJQlaKCzkH-2f1j00ReTGPytlVvoQ/China-0-5-mm-Colored-Flat-PTFE-Washers.html

el Fenomeno

Where would the best place be to get some finer nozzles for printing very fine (and small) lettering?

TychoCaine

el Fenomeno wrote: »

Where would the best place be to get some finer nozzles for printing very fine (and small) lettering?

Amazon or AliExpress are good options.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/sourcing-map-Printer-Replacement-Extruder/dp/B07TW7YV7R/ref=sr_1_8?crid=1WJE17966SX91&dchild=1&keywords=ender+3+nozzle+0.2mm&qid=1621365267&sprefix=ender+3+nozzle%2Caps%2C152&sr=8-8

mossym

el Fenomeno wrote: »

Where would the best place be to get some finer nozzles for printing very fine (and small) lettering?

3djake

AirBiscuit

Just ordered a load of buck converters for the Ender and other projects.
Also bit the bullet and went for a 3Dtouch, many Youtubers saying clones of the BLtouch are crap but I've often found myself wondering is there an ulterior motive behind always recommending the most expensive option because it seems to be the de rigueur thing for them to do, not just in 3D printing.

I'll keep you posted if I've just bought a dud, but as it stands my bed is so warped it needs 5x5 mesh levelling and it gets tiring having to redo it manually any time I make an adjustment or take the removable surface off.

AirBiscuit

Arrived, fitted, and (after an hour or 2 of frustration) working. Not bad for €24


Opted for a 3D printed mount that fits over the hotend enclosure rather than the included metal one that fits to the vents on the side of it.
If you get one I really don't recommend feeding it through the nylon sleeving like I did. It's a pain in the ass to feed through, and the cable isn't long enough to make it all the way back to the motherboard so I had to cut a hole in the sleeving after it emerges from the cable chain I use, then needed to cut the probe connector off the short version of the wiring harness they also included, then crimp on male dupont connectors instead and join the 2 leads.
Easiest just to cable tie it to the PTFE and wiring as far as the extruder and just drop it down to the motherboard from there.
The worst part was trying to figure out why it would send out a STOPPED message on the LCD the first few times I used it. Turns out the 5 pin header,despite having a stop and ground pin, still needed me to unplug the Z endstop switch and use that port instead (though I might have missed something in the configuration when I was building marlin)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJV6LAjQZHw

What MB and Firmware are you using?

AirBiscuit

Deleted User wrote: »

What MB and Firmware are you using?

4.2.2 and Marlin 2.0.8 that I compiled myself.

AirBiscuit

Update: After or during longer prints it starts to misbehave. It didn't deploy while auto-homing one time, and with the endstop switch now unplugged the nozzle crashed hard into the bed. Solution to that was apparently to let the printer cool down for a few hours between prints, or be ready to kill the power during homing and probing in case it fails to deploy.
During the current print it just deployed mid-print and smashed against the side of the print multiple times. Still waiting for it to finish before I can inspect the damage, but I think it's FUBAR.

AirBiscuit

Can't edit my prior post, but here's an update: It would seem that the motherboard becomes much hotter than I thought during use, or maybe my dupont crimping is just crap: The issue seems to be that the connectors work themselves loose from the pin header. Hot glueing the pin headers into their slots seems to have resolved my problems for now. Didn't want to do it to allow for maintenance, but it seems to need it to prevent constant maintenance.

iLikeWaffles

AirBiscuit wrote: »

Can't edit my prior post, but here's an update: It would seem that the motherboard becomes much hotter than I thought during use, or maybe my dupont crimping is just crap: The issue seems to be that the connectors work themselves loose from the pin header. Hot glueing the pin headers into their slots seems to have resolved my problems for now. Didn't want to do it to allow for maintenance, but it seems to need it to prevent constant maintenance.

Warrenty!

dvntie

I have a full trianglelabs direct drive kit sitting here if you're interested I ordered 2 and the second one arrived months before this one sonits totting in a boxngatheting dust