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Rolex at retail prices

  • 25-04-2021 6:04pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,714 ✭✭✭ Neilw


    Hi all,

    I realise it’s difficult to get certain Rolex models at retail prices, but what about the likes of a black steel no date submariner?

    Weirs online price is €7850.

    Am I delusional? :D


«13

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,619 ✭✭✭✭ banie01


    Yes.

    Lots of info here
    https://touch.boards.ie/thread/post/116892942

    But the chances of landing a Rolex Sub at retail are much predicated on spending far more.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,714 ✭✭✭ Neilw


    banie01 wrote: »
    Yes.

    Lol, fair enough :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭ LawBoy2018


    What do you mean? I'm a bit of a nube when it comes to the watch scene. Do retailers ramp up the price?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,115 ✭✭✭ redlead


    LawBoy2018 wrote: »
    What do you mean? I'm a bit of a nube when it comes to the watch scene. Do retailers ramp up the price?

    No he means they'll likely only sell you the ss rolex if you spend a load of money on other non rolex stuff. Basically forget about getting a no date sub from an AD. You'll either have to pay over retail on the grey market if you want one or buy a load of dual tone Omega and Breitlings along with some ladies jewellery. I had a similar question on a less popular rolex model a while ago and the consensus was, sexual favours would be required .....


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,714 ✭✭✭ Neilw


    I suppose I naively thought a black submariner would be something that could be bought easily enough.
    I know the likes of hulks, kermits, Pepsi, Batman and so on are like hens teeth unless spending way above retail.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,309 ✭✭✭ Fitz II


    Neilw wrote: »
    I suppose I naively thought a black submariner would be something that could be bought easily enough.
    I know the likes of hulks, kermits, Pepsi, Batman and so on are like hens teeth unless spending way above retail.

    All Stainless sports Rolex are super hot. Submariners are always in high demand. And are generally sold by AD to preferred customers or as sweeteners to customers making other big purchases.

    Its a very funny market that makes no sense. Expect to pay about 2500 euro more to a secondary dealers (this is the so called grey market dealers) for nearly new watches of about 3000 exuro over retail for a brand new watch.

    If you go into a dealers ask about a Sub, buy another watch and ask to be put on the list. Then wait and wait and wait. Otherwise cough up the extra dosh and go grey.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,714 ✭✭✭ Neilw


    Fitz II wrote: »
    All Stainless sports Rolex are super hot. Submariners are always in high demand. And are generally sold by AD to preferred customers or as sweeteners to customers making other big purchases.

    Its a very funny market that makes no sense. Expect to pay about 2500 euro more to a secondary dealers (this is the so called grey market dealers) for nearly new watches of about 3000 exuro over retail for a brand new watch.

    If you go into a dealers ask about a Sub, buy another watch and ask to be put on the list. Then wait and wait and wait. Otherwise cough up the extra dosh and go grey.

    Thanks, I didn’t know it was all stainless sports that were in high demand.

    What about the green face milgauss, in similar high demand? I like it but would prefer a submariner.

    I’m not in a position to buy watches or jewellery to be put on a list and €3k over list puts it out of my price range unfortunately.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,309 ✭✭✭ Fitz II


    Milgauss all in demand and sell above list but not so much. Around 1k move on used Milgauss.
    Milgauss is a great watch BTW.
    Any stainless steel watch in mens size is super hot, why? You dont even see loose datejusts anymore in 41mm or 36mm.

    Its a hard situation, if you have 8k to spend on a sub thats a lot of money and to not be able to get the watch you want is frustrating. You could go for a second hand submariner. You would easily get a preceramic no date sub within budget and they are a lovely watch.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,714 ✭✭✭ Neilw


    Fitz II wrote: »
    Milgauss all in demand and sell above list but not so much. Around 1k move on used Milgauss.
    Milgauss is a great watch BTW.
    Any stainless steel watch in mens size is super hot, why? You dont even see loose datejusts anymore in 41mm or 36mm.

    Its a hard situation, if you have 8k to spend on a sub thats a lot of money and to not be able to get the watch you want is frustrating. You could go for a second hand submariner. You would easily get a preceramic no date sub within budget and they are a lovely watch.

    It is frustrating alright.

    May have to rethink my strategy as I have an Omega I would need to sell too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,085 ✭✭✭✭ Birneybau


    LawBoy2018 wrote: »
    What do you mean? I'm a bit of a nube when it comes to the watch scene. Do retailers ramp up the price?

    They sell for more than retail so they're essentially selling you something you can sell for more straightway.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 59,754 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    Neilw wrote: »
    It is frustrating alright.

    May have to rethink my strategy as I have an Omega I would need to sell too.

    Whatever you do, don't trade it in. Sell it privately on the likes of adverts.ie - you'll get a lot more for it. What Omega is it?

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,714 ✭✭✭ Neilw


    unkel wrote: »
    Whatever you do, don't trade it in. Sell it privately on the likes of adverts.ie - you'll get a lot more for it. What Omega is it?

    The usual blue dial seamaster, 41mm auto.

    https://www.omegawatches.com/watch-omega-seamaster-300-m-chronometer-25318000


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,719 ✭✭✭ 3DataModem


    Neilw wrote: »
    What about the green face milgauss, in similar high demand? I like it but would prefer a submariner..

    I did a LOT of research into getting the blue/green milgauss, like you assuming I could just buy one in a rolex dealer. Nope, unless you happen to be in one somewhere in the world and catch the salesperson in a good mood. If you want it in Ireland, Weirs told me 1-2 years to wait.

    So I got one via a dealer on Chrono24, as the poster above says the range is 1-2k above RRP. I'd suggest setting up a saved search for the model, with 2020/2021 as the year, "New/Unworn", full box and papers, and EU dealers only. Pick a dealer with a lot of positive feedback.


  • Registered Users Posts: 456 ✭✭ oxocube


    Neilw wrote: »

    Thats a really nice Seamaster. Shame you cannot keep this as well as getting the Sub :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,714 ✭✭✭ Neilw


    oxocube wrote: »
    Thats a really nice Seamaster. Shame you cannot keep this as well as getting the Sub :(
    It is nice and was my first and only good watch, I have it on a nice original omega blue nato strap and I think it looks great.

    Controversial but I prefer the look and design of omega over Rolex.
    Quality is probably pretty close but I know residuals are poor on omega and the lose quite a lot when purchased new.

    This is my favourite omega at the moment, ceramic and titanium.

    https://www.chrono24.com/omega/seamaster-diver-300m-co-axial-master-chronometer-keramik-schwarz-automatik-armband-kautschuk-44mm-bj2021-boxpap-full-set-ungetragen-neuheit-mit-zertifikat-ueber-7600---id18903819.htm


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,886 ✭✭✭ C0N0R


    Neilw wrote: »
    It is nice and was my first and only good watch, I have it on a nice original omega blue nato strap and I think it looks great.

    Controversial but I prefer the look and design of omega over Rolex.
    Quality is probably pretty close but I know residuals are poor on omega and the lose quite a lot when purchased new.

    This is my favourite omega at the moment, ceramic and titanium.

    https://www.chrono24.com/omega/seamaster-diver-300m-co-axial-master-chronometer-keramik-schwarz-automatik-armband-kautschuk-44mm-bj2021-boxpap-full-set-ungetragen-neuheit-mit-zertifikat-ueber-7600---id18903819.htm

    If you prefer the look of the omega, why the desire to change to the Rolex? What do you feel your seamaster is worth?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,714 ✭✭✭ Neilw


    C0N0R wrote: »
    If you prefer the look of the omega, why the desire to change to the Rolex? What do you feel your seamaster is worth?

    I do prefer the look of an omega but a submariner is timeless and a watch for life once looked after. Also if I did want to change I would be in a better position selling a Rolex than an omega that had lost a lot of value.

    I don’t know what my seamaster is worth, I have it a long time, 15 years or more. I only paid a 3 figure amount for it new when I bought it in Newcastle.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,299 ✭✭✭ Ri_Nollaig


    Neilw wrote: »
    I do prefer the look of an omega but a submariner is timeless and a watch for life once looked after. Also if I did want to change I would be in a better position selling a Rolex than an omega that had lost a lot of value.

    I don’t know what my seamaster is worth, I have it a long time, 15 years or more. I only paid a 3 figure amount for it new when I bought it in Newcastle.

    I would imagine your seamaster is worth about €2-2.5k

    If you are after a submariner, you probably are best off just making that your target and aiming for it. Anything else will just only be a stop gap till you get it.

    I say that; loving both Omegas and Rolexes.
    I love the new seamaster 300m and it is, on paper, better than the submariner in every possible way.
    But if were were to measure watches based entirely on spec, then we would have all fw91's so what does that even mean?
    Its if you like it or not that matters (and if it actual fits your wrist I guess)

    But obviously the other side to this is, if you want to sell it on again or see it as an investment than its Rolex all day long. Any steel Rolex is going to be worth more than what you paid for it, assuming you get it at RRP. Will that last forever? who knows. But has lasted a long time so far.

    The big thing to consider with Omega, is atleast you will actually be able to get one, easily enough. And no one ever pays their RRP, it will be atleast 10-15% less than that, maybe more if you get a bargain. That really cuts into any money lost if you were than to sell it on again. If anything this is what any watch purchase should be! Its crazy we live in a world where its possible to buy a submariner, wear it every day for 20+ years and STILL sell it on for atleast what you paid (maybe even for a bit more) for it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,619 ✭✭✭✭ banie01


    Ri_Nollaig wrote: »
    I would imagine your seamaster is worth about €2-2.5k.

    Aww man!
    I was just about to offer him the 3 figure sum he originally paid for it :P

    Other than that tho, I agree with everything you said.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 59,390 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Wibbs


    Ri_Nollaig wrote: »
    The big thing to consider with Omega, is atleast you will actually be able to get one, easily enough. And no one ever pays their RRP, it will be atleast 10-15% less than that, maybe more if you get a bargain. That really cuts into any money lost if you were than to sell it on again.
    or get one used and cut even more of a deal.
    Its crazy we live in a world where its possible to buy a submariner, wear it every day for 20+ years and STILL sell it on for atleast what you paid (maybe even for a bit more) for it.
    Currently. That's the important part Ri. Yes if you bought one in 2001, when they were cheaper at retail you'd get all your money back today, if not more. If you'd bought one in 1980, you wouldn't have in 2000. If you buy one today(where they've since gone up quite a bit in RRP, never mind the grey market) there is no guarantee that in 2041 the same will hold. It almost certainly won't.

    You don't even have to go back that far to see this. Take this very forum that kicked off in 2009. Watch collecting was already and long a thing on the interwebs. Hodinkee which was actually late to the party had started in 08, Watchuseek had been around since 05, others had been around for a lot longer back into the 90's. Anyway if we go back to here in 09 it's a few pages before Rolex is mentioned and it's in this thread "Buying a Rolex". To save clicking here are some highlights:


    I'm sort of interested in buying a Rolex, there's some sites where you can buy a discounted one


    there are very good places like timezone or watchuseek where you can get a bargain


    You should join up with www.rolexforums.com

    There is a buy/sell section where very respected members of the forum sell watches for great prices with lots of availability.


    Now to read dealers and other vested industry interests you'd be forgiven for believing that steel sports Rolex have always gone up in value and were always an "investment". Well they actually state that clearly. The Belfast based Pride and Pinion crowd states that no steel Rolex has gone down in value since the 1970's. Yeah. Utter bollocks, but they've copied and pasted that utter bollocks from others(like most of their copy). And yet a decade ago bargains were to be had and availability was not even an issue. A decade before that talk on the forums would be along the lines of IWC, Rolex or TAG, which would you buy? Followed by positives and negatives of each. These days TAG is a dirty word and IWC seem to have fallen off a cliff in popularity and exposure. Look at Hodinkee's first talking watches with the guitarist Mayer guy. The takeaways from that were his Rolex Milsub and his IWC Big Pilot. The latter was a big deal for a few years. Today? Barely gets a mention and now the same Mayer is hoovering up Rolex jewellery items that look like Liberace's codpiece. Well, that's what his dealer told him to "invest" in.

    TL;DR? If you want to buy a [insert brand here] as a lifetime watch, do your research, try and find someone who has one so you can try it on for size, buy secondhand if you can. If it's a currently "hot" and overpriced model Rolex, buy it, because unless you're into flipping watches every few months what it costs now will matter little enough in decades to come. Don't buy for investment. The time for that in any market is when the general public don't see the items as investments. It's nearly always too late by the time they do. As far as making big returns anyway. This goes double if there's the hint of hype and need to jump now before it's too late.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,299 ✭✭✭ Ri_Nollaig


    banie01 wrote: »
    Aww man!
    I was just about to offer him the 3 figure sum he originally paid for it :P

    Only just noticed that, ...£999.99 I assume?
    if so that was some bargain!!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,299 ✭✭✭ Ri_Nollaig


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Don't buy for investment. The time for that in any market is when the general public don't see the items as investments. It's nearly always too late by the time they do. As far as making big returns anyway. This goes double if there's the hint of hype and need to jump now before it's too late.

    I think thats the real take away!
    You should only go after a watch you actually like and want.

    I really didn't mean to class it as 'investment' but when it comes to Rolex its hard not to when you look at their grey market/second hand prices.

    And yes, it was the datejusts in the 80s, apparently daytonas might have been thrown in to sweeten a deal. Its like when you watch those Antique Roadshow clips, some grandparent's Patek (a brand they never heard of) has sky rocketed in value. But that watch was never purchased based on a future value, it was bought because they liked it!


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 59,390 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Wibbs


    Yeah Daytonas as a desirable model is a remarkably recent thing. The reason the 60's ones are so rare is because they just couldn't sell them. They were essentially a flop. Now it's been suggested it was because they couldn't be had as automatics until the 90's, when they started to get some interest, but there were plenty of chronographs that sold and sold well in from the 20's to the 60's before auto chronos were available. Rolex weren't seen as a chronograph manufacturer. Again some reckon it's because they didn't make their own movements, but that didn't stop Heuer becoming a chronograph brand. Rolex were always the mid tier solid tool watch brand. Cellinis save for a brief time in the 80's/90's didn't sell either, because Rolex weren't/aren't seen as a dress watch company. TBH I like a few of the Cellini designs down the years.

    Datejusts were popular in the 80's but again were cheaper used. Different market. Pateks were always pricey. Not as mad as today but not cheap, but yeah very few people would have ever had heard of them. Pre the internet when I was into "old watches" the only brands I knew were those I saw in ads in magazines and what was on display in shop windows. I had heard of Patek because my dad had one and there was usually a fancy complicated one in the window of Weir on Grafton Street. For 8000 punts!!! :eek: :D I never saw one come up in house/general auctions I attended. And funny enough because my dad had one I had seen them as "oul lad" watches. His was a time only 50's gold dress job mind you. If he'd had a steel Nautilus I'd likely have had a very different view. Back then you could have offered me a Blancpain Fifty Fathoms for a hundred quid and I might have passed because the name would have meant nada to me. Like I say different times.

    The investment angle with Rolex is certainly there Ri. Currently. My point being that it's quite the recent thing, less than ten years and the wider hype mania is less than five years. Great if you're flipping watches today. Crap if you just want to buy one without selling your soul to some muppet in a shop or paying well over the odds to some other muppet, so you can brag to more muppets with shaved wrists on instagram. No one can divine the future and anyone who tells you they can is trying to sell you an imaginary future that suits them, but one thing is consistently true; these trends always and I mean always come and then go and the bigger the hype the more this is in play. Will Rolex prices collapse? No. Mainly because at the sniff of that Rolex will constrain supply. Again. However they will almost certainly soften and the paying over the odds for a new model will go away. It's just a case of when, not if.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,309 ✭✭✭ Fitz II


    Do not let things frustrate you from you goal. You are at a dangerous time. You have saved a good amount but are just short of the goal. You are looking around at what else you can get for the money you have (and there is good sh1t in that bracket). Hold tight, save hard for a bit longer and get the Rolex. Anything else you get will be a compromise (even if its technically a better watch). I have been in your position so many times and its so tempting to just go out there and get something else.

    Rolex being a good store of money or an investment is a new thing (anything that happens in the last 20 years is new to Wibbs :) ) but it is a thing, thats just reality. In this uncertain environment of potential high interest rates and inflation, people are looking towards luxury goods as a safe store of money.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,714 ✭✭✭ Neilw


    Fitz II wrote: »
    Do not let things frustrate you from you goal. You are at a dangerous time. You have saved a good amount but are just short of the goal. You are looking around at what else you can get for the money you have (and there is good sh1t in that bracket). Hold tight, save hard for a bit longer and get the Rolex. Anything else you get will be a compromise (even if its technically a better watch). I have been in your position so many times and its so tempting to just go out there and get something else.

    Good advice there, thanks, and thanks to all for the replies and advice.

    When retail opens up again I’m going to talk to an AD and chance my arm to see if I can get on a list, worth a try at least.

    I would like to see a sub and try it on to be sure.
    Ri_Nollaig wrote: »
    Only just noticed that, ...£999.99 I assume?
    if so that was some bargain!!!!

    Nothing to hide on what I paid for it, £925.
    I think at the time the watch was €2250 here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 87 ✭✭✭ PunkIPA


    Two questions here for the more knowledgeable members of the forum:

    1. How useful would a series of "lower end" purchases be towards getting a list-price Sub in the likes of Weirs? For example, if I was to buy the likes of a BB58, Tank Solo, Santos, Reverso, El Primero at reasonably regular intervals over a few years, would this be enough to get yourself bumped up the list or do you need to splash five figures a pop on precious metal ****e that they can't shift? I've no real problem in theory with establishing a purchase record so long as I could do it with pieces I actually wanted.

    2. How difficult is it to get a Yacht-Master 40 in steel/platinum at the minute? I have seen the steel/rose one in the Weirs window on occasion, but never the blue steel/platinum one. It's a stunning piece. Was on the continent last year and saw them in practically every boutique so I presume the availability isn't at the SS Sub levels yet.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,309 ✭✭✭ Fitz II


    Two questions here for the more knowledgeable members of the forum:

    1. How useful would a series of "lower end" purchases be towards getting a list-price Sub in the likes of Weirs? For example, if I was to buy the likes of a BB58, Tank Solo, Santos, Reverso, El Primero at reasonably regular intervals over a few years, would this be enough to get yourself bumped up the list or do you need to splash five figures a pop on precious metal ****e that they can't shift? I've no real problem in theory with establishing a purchase record so long as I could do it with pieces I actually wanted.

    Definatly, if you were looking for a sub or a GMT these sorts of purchases would go a long long long way, just make your intentions known and try to always deal with the same sales person.

    2. How difficult is it to get a Yacht-Master 40 in steel/platinum at the minute? I have seen the steel/rose one in the Weirs window on occasion, but never the blue steel/platinum one. It's a stunning piece. Was on the continent last year and saw them in practically every boutique so I presume the availability isn't at the SS Sub levels yet.

    They are harder to get than they were in the past for sure, but if you ask for one I am sure it would turn up eventually if you were a regular customer. They are not too bad on the gray market either only a small premium.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭ Cyclingtourist


    What other luxury item would consumers put up with this type of **** to buy?

    Cars? If you won the lottery and wanted a top of the range Merc for instance, would you be expected to buy a load of Volkswagen golfs or entry level Mercedes before you were allowed to buy the car of your dreams for the RRP????

    If any brand treated me this way I would refuse to buy it on principal if for no other reason.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,299 ✭✭✭ Ri_Nollaig


    What other luxury item would consumers put up with this type of **** to buy?

    Cars? If you won the lottery and wanted a top of the range Merc for instance, would you be expected to buy a load of Volkswagen golfs or entry level Mercedes before you were allowed to buy the car of your dreams for the RRP????

    If any brand treated me this way I would refuse to buy it on principal if for no other reason.

    For some high end cars
    They absolutely do!
    If you won the lotto and wanted a Porsche, yes you can have one but don't expect to get a GT3 for example.
    Same for some of the other makes, waiting lists/limited numbers etc.

    And said it before, if you actually do really want one particular model, just pay the grey price and be done with it. Unless you actually do want the other pieces as it will easily cost as much if not more and with no guarantee.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,192 ✭✭✭ pg633


    What other luxury item would consumers put up with this type of **** to buy?

    Cars? If you won the lottery and wanted a top of the range Merc for instance, would you be expected to buy a load of Volkswagen golfs or entry level Mercedes before you were allowed to buy the car of your dreams for the RRP????

    If any brand treated me this way I would refuse to buy it on principal if for no other reason.
    They do though. If say a Porsche dealer was allocated a single limited edition model, do you think they would sell it to a whoever was first in the door or someone who has been a regular customer over the years?
    Porsche themselves have mulled leasing limited edition cars to avoid them being flipped or dealers cashing in.

    Or this for example:
    https://www.mercedes-benz.com/en/vehicles/passenger-cars/s-class/mercedes-amg-s-65-final-edition/


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