Covid vaccines - thread banned users in First Post

Fr0g

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119408421#Comment_119408421

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119408296#Comment_119408296

The data shows, as I have said, that the more vaccines you take the more you are likely to end up in hospital with COVID. That has nothing to do with the proportion vaccinated or the demographic.

Biden has tested positive again after 4 jabs and a treatment of paxlovid. Now they're calling it "rebound covid". We have never eradicated an airborne respiratory virus. To think you can is simply human arrogance and hubris.

Clearly we don't have the technology to do it. The mRNA vaccines are not doing it. We have come a long way from "it will stop you getting it and spreading it".

Defend these useless vaccines all you want. We've been had.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119410476#Comment_119410476

OK. Please show evidence for this claim.

Please show a study that concludes that the vaccines have negatively effected fertility.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119410693#Comment_119410693

Show us where the study controlled for age or risk.

Is the risk of hospitalisation the same if you have an 80 year old and 30 year old?

And is this study comparing unvaccinated 30 year olds with vaccinated 80 year olds.

Or vaccinated 80 yos and unvaccinated 80 yos.

Simple questions a simple study should be able to answer.

So if it isnt controlling for the likeliness of hospitalisation based on age not vaccination status. It cannot be used to support a claim that vaccination increases your chances of hospitalisation.

Show us the age breakdown and the other major drivers of admissions - then show us the likelihoods.

The vaccines are proven as per the Lancet study to significantly reduce risk of hospitalisation.

So to say they are useless is factually incorrect. If its merely your opinion state so but dont pretend this junk simplistic study supports it unless you also think an 80 year old is as likely as 30 to end up in hospital with covid. Do you?

Fr0g

https://www.normanfenton.com/post/how-wikipedia-defames-and-delegitimizes-anybody-raising-concerns-against-the-who-narrative-on-covid

A little insight into what happens to highly qualified scientists who question the WHO narrative on COVID and the oh so ordinary people who set themselves as arbiters of truth.

Fr0g

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119410844#Comment_119410844

It doesn't matter what the demographics are and repeating yourself is only going to force me to repeat myself. Regardless of age the more vaccines you take the more likely you are to end up in hospital. Much the same as abusing any drug will. 4th and subsequent treatments are not improving the situation for anyone

Fr0g

"unless you also think an 80 year old is as likely as 30 to end up in hospital with covid. Do you?"

Let me explain in even more simple terms to help you understand.

If a 30 year old takes 4 vaccines they are more likely to end up in hospital than a 30 year old who took none. Same for 80 year olds. The data is about the number of vaccines taken. The more you take the higher the the likelihood.

Does that help you at all?

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119410898#Comment_119410898

Where did you get that statement from? What is the source for what you allege is fact?

odyssey06

...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119410898#Comment_119410898

Did you just make that up?

Because no such data is present in the link you provided.

https://metatron.substack.com/p/new-south-wales-australia-covid-update?utm_source=%2Fprofile%2F30382446-joel-smalley&utm_medium=reader2

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119410898#Comment_119410898

Lol

another anti vaxxer not understanding what they are looking at

Click "age group raw" and compare the results.

😂😂

”up to”…. like the “up to 50% off” and you can only find 1 item on the clothes rack with that reduction. In up to 100% of the cases the vaccine begins to fade after 3 months.

The Nal

More people posting "evidence" they havent even read. Love it.

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119410460#Comment_119410460

There are no decades of experience or evidence of safety of mRNA vaccines. Zero long term safety studies since it is quite new technology used on unprecedented scale.

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411253#Comment_119411253

A decade is 10 years. mRNA vaccines existed in the 1990’s. It is currently 2022. Decades means more than one decade. There has already been 2 full decades this century, not including the extra few years, plus the years in the 1990’s. Decades is correct.

covid vaccines are now 2 years old. So not exactly new either as evidence shows that vaccines normally result in side effects within the first few months. That time has passed. Vaccines are very well studied, and the covid ones received unprecedented scrutiny since development.

Fr0g

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119410988#Comment_119410988

• I don't see it but I found this:
• "146 COVID-19 deaths were reported this week, a 3% increase from 142 reported last week. All 146 deaths were eligible for a third dose of COVID-19 vaccine and 100 (68%) had received a third dose. Five deaths were in people aged under 65 years. Deaths may not have occurred in the week in which they were reported."
• This is even worse. 100% had at least 2, 68% had 3 so all deaths vaccinated. 3 dosed are more highly represented. No deaths were unvaccinated but NSW still try to say the unvaccinated are over represented.
• What difference does it make what age they are vaccines aren't saving them and look like they are worse of with it than without.
• You should be seeing the opposite of this.

robinph

He does have a point, if a 30 year old is vaccinated then they are far more likely to be hospitalised than an unvaccinated 80 year old.

They will likely break some bones at some point, have a baby, get some injury at work, trip over in the street, catch some tropical illness on holiday, catch something from their kid, burn themselves cooking. All that will add up to multiple hospital visits over the years, whilst the 80 year old may well just die peacefully in their sleep in the care home.

So if that is their argument then they are correct that the vaccinated will be more likely to go to hospital over their lifetime.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411584#Comment_119411584

You can't keep your story straight. Does the article control for age or not?

You were saying: "If a 30 year old takes 4 vaccines they are more likely to end up in hospital than a 30 year old who took none. Same for 80 year olds."

You were completely unable to substantiate this claim or point to its source in the data.

So, now you are saying what difference does age make! 

This is from the New South Wales data, which the article you posted referenced.

• In the peak fortnight of the outbreak to date (25 August to 7 September), the COVID-19 case rate among 2-dose vaccinated people was 49.5 per 100,000 while in unvaccinated people it was 561 per 100,000, a more than 10-fold difference. The rates of COVID-19 ICU admissions or deaths peaked in the fortnight 8 September to 21 September at 0.9 per 100,000 in 2-dose vaccinated people compared to 15.6 per 100,000 in unvaccinated people, a greater than 16-fold difference. 

https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/covid-19/Documents/in-focus/covid-19-vaccination-case-surveillance-051121.pdf

Fr0g

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119412127#Comment_119412127

No, I always said that the age doesn't matter. It is about the number of doses.

Since you are deliberately trying to misunderstand I attempted to explain it in more simple terms for you.

The numbers you are quoting above are from last year. I am talking about the most recent data.

Dohnjoe

Most posts in this thread

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119412387#Comment_119412387

I'm not looking for explanations. I'm looking for the data, recent or otherwise, that shows that, as per your claim:

"If a 30 year old takes 4 vaccines they are more likely to end up in hospital than a 30 year old who took none. Same for 80 year olds."

And we're talking about covid related admissions. Not going in for a broken leg, or someone who is 30 and vaccinated cos they are immuno-compromised versus a random 30 year old.

snowcat

https://elpais.com/sociedad/2022-08-01/el-exceso-de-muertes-este-julio-quintuplica-la-media-de-ese-mes-y-no-solo-por-el-calor-y-la-covid.html

For the Spanish speakers. Excess Mortality going through the roof

EyesClosed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119416624#Comment_119416624

How does this relate to vaccine safety?

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119416704#Comment_119416704

Perhaps because it is possibly caused by the vaccine?

Non covid excess mortality is sky high everywhere, precisely when you'd expect it to be lower.

Nobody seems to know why. In the absence of any explanations of what is causing it, vaccinations have to be at least considered a possibility.

Unless you have any reason to believe it couldn't possibly be the vaccines?

snowcat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119416724#Comment_119416724

Yes as the article stated it is not Covid or the Heatwave so what has changed in the last 2 years?

EyesClosed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119416724#Comment_119416724

There is nothing in that article to suggest it is. Nobody here has shown anything to suggest the vaccine is killing people.

snowcat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119416740#Comment_119416740

No One has suggested that, The question is why is there is a massive increase in mortality if it is not Covid or the Heatwave. Is there anything else?

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119416740#Comment_119416740

And there is nothing in that article to suggest it is not the vaccines. The point of that article is that the bulk of the excess mortality is a total mystery. Nobody knows what is causing it.

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119416756#Comment_119416756

Lockdowns. This is seen as a potential contributing factor in the increased cases of hepatitis in children. We isolated everyone for a couple of years, opened up and exposed everyone to lots of infections at the same time. Who knows what damage that could do.

Also, diagnoses of illness was pretty much suspended for a long period of time. It was known from the start that would kill many people.

EyesClosed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119416756#Comment_119416756

Then why post it here, this thread is for vaccine safety. You posting that here implies you think it's the vaccine. If that's your opinion grand, but at least state it or not.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119416756#Comment_119416756

How if it is vaccine related, can this occur - Spain does not have significantly higher vaccination rates.

Half a dozen epidemiologists consulted agree that this is a very striking figure that, moreover, is unparalleled in other European countries. The statistics show a small rise in mortality in the rest of the continent, but much lower than what happens in Spain

I will excerpt of lot of text from the article due to translation:

The exact causes cannot be known or attributed to a single specific reason. The heat of these weeks, the covid, the consequences of the pandemic [there are indirect ones of many kinds, such as socio-health, less access to the health system due to healthcare difficulties or fear, the isolation that many older people have suffered], can influence the fragility of vulnerable people in relation to all of the above...

Salvador Peiró, director of research at the Fisabio foundation, has been thinking about these figures for some time, which already in June presented a huge excess over what was expected: 4,404 deaths, more than 10 times higher than the average for the month. He posits five hypotheses.

* The first is that there are many covid deaths that are not counted, something that seems "very unlikely". Quite the contrary: deaths of people who enter the statistics due to covid simply had a positive PCR, but the disease was not the only or main cause of death.

* Peiró's second hypothesis is one that is also pointed out by the sources consulted in the ISCIII: there are people who die due to the long lack of control in the management of chronic pathologies and the low detection of cancer in the last two years. “Again I find it difficult to fit in. On the one hand, I would expect to see more hospital admissions for decompensated diabetes, heart failure, and other classic chronic diseases. And the colleagues I ask tell me that they are not seeing this. They do say that there are more advanced cancers, but here the latency to death should be longer. It might explain some, but not all, of the excess mortality. And it should be accompanied by an uptick in emergency room hospitalizations due to chronic ailments,” he notes.

* The third and fourth hypotheses have to do with the fact that the MoMo is not measuring the excesses well. “They are models and they are probably not built for such a long-lasting heat wave,” says the epidemiologist, who also believes that he could perhaps be underestimating mortality in general, beyond temperatures. “But I checked the model and it seemed correct. I don't know if it could have any effect, but not that much”, he assures.

* The fifth hypothesis, which is perhaps the most plausible for him, is a mixture of all the previous ones. “But in two years a lot of people have died. Sick people, very old people who had died (from non-covid causes) in the months following their death from covid. The so-called harvest effect (the excess mortality in one season advances the deaths of the next) should mean that at this point we have a defect (not an excess) of mortality, which further complicates the interpretation”, adds Peiró. In his opinion, "the sensible thing to do" would be to advance the coding and analysis of mortality by cause to try to verify what is happening, if anything, because "at this time, mortality becomes relevant data for decision-making ”.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119416624#Comment_119416624

Easily explained when the associated impact of the heat wave is taken into account, and not just death by heat related causes of recorded

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119416774#Comment_119416774

In my opinion it must remain a possible contributing factor, unless it is definitively ruled out as a factor. Madness just to ignore it.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119416815#Comment_119416815

So are you suggesting the COVID vaccine killed 5000 people in the month of July in Spain?

EyesClosed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119416815#Comment_119416815

Nobody is ignoring it, it's been studied, studies have been posted over and over in here.

The vaccines are overwhelmingly safe. Nobody has shown otherwise.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119416830#Comment_119416830

Saying I think it is possible that the vaccine is a contributing factor in the excess mortality seen worldwide over the past 8 months or so does not equate to saying I think the vaccines specifically killed 5000 people in the month of July in Spain.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119416855#Comment_119416855

Do you accept that there is not one single shed of evidence to back up your theory?

EyesClosed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119416855#Comment_119416855

But I could say my opinion is I think it was dragons that have been killing people.

There's just as much evidence... None.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119416891#Comment_119416891

It was giants. Don't Quixote fought them. And, like the antivaxxers, lost.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119416882#Comment_119416882

One of the reasons I think it is possible, is that I have not seen any evidence to say it is definitely not a contributing factor, so it remains a possibility.

Have you seen any evidence proving the vaccines have nothing to do with the excess mortality?

EyesClosed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119416908#Comment_119416908

Have you seen any evidence saying it wasn't dragons?

Same logic..

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119416908#Comment_119416908

Yes

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-excess-mortality-idUSL2N2VS1BI

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119416940#Comment_119416940

That's not evidence that the vaccines are definitely not a contributing factor of the excess mortality.

That's a fact check of a specific claim that the vaccines definitely cause the mortality, with the verdict:

Misleading. There is no evidence that there was a 84% increase in excess deaths for people aged between 25 and 44 due to COVID-19 vaccines, as claimed in a video on social media. CDC data shows excess deaths related to COVID-19, not COVID-19 vaccines. 

EyesClosed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119417033#Comment_119417033

I still think its dragons... You should keep an open mind

Big Bag of Chips

@EyesClosed enough of the dragon talk. Totally irrelevant in this discussion.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119417033#Comment_119417033

You asked for "any evidence proving vaccines have nothing to do with excess mortality"

I provided some evidence.

QED

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119417145#Comment_119417145

You provided evidence of Reuters quoting some experts stating that the cause is unknown. That is not evidence proving the cause is not vaccines.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119417166#Comment_119417166

Can you quote any experts who believe that the cause is vaccines?

You're also asking for a complete nonsense here. Your asking people to prove a negative. While completely ignoring the fact you've no evidence to support the idea. That's completely illogical as demonstrated by Eyeclosed example of the deaths being caused by dragons until you can prove otherwise.

Big Bag of Chips

@King Mob there's already been a warning to drop the dragon nonsense.

Dohnjoe

Two years in with everyone vaccinated, I have no idea why this subject is still on a conspiracy theory forum with no conspiracies being presented. It makes as much sense as people discussing cancer treatment here.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119417575#Comment_119417575

Well the conspiracy theory has swung all the way back to "its killing people and its being covered up".

I’ve been reading medical studies/reports for over 30 yrs, Ive never read an article where the study was used as proof to support a cause of death which is not referenced in the study. If the article did, the nut job writing the article could point to any cause of death and say as it wasn’t ruled out in the study, it might be the cause of the increased mortality rate. The number of potential reasons would be wide and varied, to focus on the vaccine would certainly be a unique perspective.