Covid vaccines - thread banned users in First Post

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386968#Comment_119386968

And what did the actual paper you're misrepresenting say? Does it actually mention negative efficacy outside the graph you are interpreting by yourself?

(Since you're going to ignore the question: no it doesn't. You're misrepresenting stuff again.)

King Mob

And look at that. Already abandoned the claims of the vaccine effecting menstrual cycles.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387210#Comment_119387210

Another one to add to the list.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386204#Comment_119386204

OK. If you've no evidence to indicate this is true, why do you believe it's the case?

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387061#Comment_119387061

I know, it's handy for getting the pony to drop in for some.

Better to have a healthy immune system that hasn't been tinkered with or turned into a photo copier and firing out all these replicated spike proteins anytime you've a common cold.

White blood cells create an immune response, imagine if it was reprogrammed for lashing out one response. That would be scary.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387330#Comment_119387330

Imagine all you want (fantasise maybe?) That isn't how the immune system works. Though I see we're now circled back to "natural immunity" idiocy, xkcd hasn't been posted in a few weeks.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386992#Comment_119386992

Noone claimed you wouldn't get it. Stop the revisionism

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387512#Comment_119387512

Can you prove that nobody whatsoever said that. Because all you have to do is google it. It's quite simple.

bad2thebone

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jul/22/joe-biden/biden-exaggerates-efficacy-covid-19-vaccines/

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387535#Comment_119387535

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said that COVID-19 vaccines are effective. But no vaccines are 100% effective at preventing illness. "There will be a small percentage of fully vaccinated people who still get sick, are hospitalized, or die from COVID-19," the CDC said.

This aged well.

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387538#Comment_119387538

Not seeing the problem. No different than the if he'd said wear a seatbelt so you don't die in a car crash. Nobody would expect that he meant wearing a seatbelt made you immortal, why do you think that him saying take this vaccine to protect yourself would do the same?

Now if he were a someone with a medical background quoting percentage rates for infections or hospitalisations and had said that it was 100% effective that would be a different matter, but it was more of a conversational comment by the sounds of it and you'd not expect statistics to be quoted around.

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386204#Comment_119386204

"many more" than what?

Some conditions will certainly have gone undiagnosed as soon as they would normally. Some conditions will not have been treated to the same standards as they would normally. Some will have been better treated than previously as new ways of working with patients were figured out that actually turned out better. Some conditions, especially workplace injuries, were drastically reduced. Injury from road accidents were greatly reduced.

Overall though, more people were saved by lockdowns and the reduction in deaths from covid and from health services not being as overwhelmed so that they could deal with any other cases still.

Lots of things could have been done slightly differently, but overall the lockdowns had a positive effect for society as a whole ... Even if some individuals came out of it worse for whatever reasons.

drunkmonkey

"lockdowns had a positive effect for society as a whole"

Wow, just f'n wow.

bad2thebone

This is what

This is what Professor of Immunology Paul Moynagh said recently.

Note diminished returns.

The variant that has constituted most of the wave that we've just seen is BA5. RNA vaccines don't do a good job fighting infection, so should we be looking at other vaccines, other technologies?

Note where he says , should we be looking at other vaccines, other technologies.

He also said, With regard to people not taking up the vaccine, Prof Moynagh urged caution: "We need to be careful and humble in terms of what we expect of these vaccines.

"The other problem is, do we continue to vaccinate with this original vaccine or should we look at updated forms of the vaccine?

So it's obvious that they're still vaccinating people with the original vaccines, and they're not being updated.

Unlike the flu vaccine which is updated, they're boosting people with the original vaccines.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387971#Comment_119387971

The other technologies (Novavax, Sinopharm/Vac, Adenovector) have worse efficacy and the same waning as mRNA (the waning is purely down to the human immune system and how it deals with coronavirus and is independent of the vaccine used). mRNA can also be updated more quickly, and production is faster and more reliable (but more expensive).

If anything, we'll see more mRNA vaccines replace traditional vaccines as the production costs come down.

Current vaccine efficacy against severe disease and preventing hospitalisations is still as strong as it ever was (~90%) which is why boosters are being used.

Omicon mRNA vaccine should be available in October, but (and said here to prevent loons acting loony later) efficacy will wane and virus mutation will reduce its efficacy against infection.

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387888#Comment_119387888

Lockdowns had a negative effect on society as a whole.

Yet there was people dancing around the headlands, piers, beaches and landmarks doing a dance.

And they were applauded for it, dancing on people's misery. Supposedly it was for people's morale. Talk about being lead by example.

Dissonance was a big thing back then. It show's how people can be told that it's for your own good.

Mind you, we were all worried in the beginning. I remember being one of the only ones left in work, myself and the tree surgeon while a lot of them scattered like flies. I had the job of locking up the estate and setting timers in the glasshouses, and making sure seedlings and rooted cuttings, and bromeliad collection were protected. Luckily I held onto my job. Didn't have to work from home.

Hearing the numbers being manipulated daily on the news, and contradictions was what made me start to question things. People dying from covid or with covid was confusing.

Mind you the first wave was scary and thankfully I didn't loose anyone close.

I did say I'd take a vaccine at the start if one was created by but I decided to hedge my bets on being one of the percentage of people who'll survive if I caught covid. I was right.

Took me nearly 2 and a half years before it finally cornered me. All my friends and family members who were vaccinated caught it early this year and late last year. They were confused about that, but I wasn't.

It went to vaccinate yourself to protect others to, whether you're vaccinated or not you'll more than likely catch it and other's will have protection from getting really sick.

See how everything was watered down. If they told everyone at the start clearly. If you're taking this vaccine it might not work or stop you from catching COVID. It will probably lesson the symptoms, but we cannot guarantee either way.

But no, that wasn't what happened.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387888#Comment_119387888

Have you any evidence to the contrary?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388059#Comment_119388059

That wasn't what happened - because that wasn't what happened.

I was vaccinated this time last year along with most of the rest of the population when the VOCs were Alpha / Kent and Delta.

All of the information presented then for vaccines at the time was valid. It provided protection against severe covid, and protection against infection and transmission. The evidence is presented in the Lancet study above and has not been contradicted.

The effectiveness of the vaccines wane. The protection v infection (antibodies) faster than the protection against severe covid which is more durable. This meant that the vaccinated in 2021 had protection against these more severe strains and enabled the country to loosen restrictions.

And then Omicron arrived. Which is milder but more infectious even than the earlier strains which are more infectious than flu.

Stop the revisionism as if the only strain has ever been Omicron. It didn't even exist when the vaccines were being rolled out here.

If you deny, for example, that the vaccine provides durable protection against severe covid, you do not do so on the basis of evidence. It is your opinion. It is baseless.

bad2thebone

@drunkmonkey

Most countries came to this conclusion.

Say 20% of people's mental health has been impacted, so that's a quarter of the population. If 20% of people are not firing on all cylinders, that means that ,80% of people are having to take up the slack in order to work harder to keep up. It's good in a way to have the capacity to take one 20% extra but it's not good that 20% of people were impacted either.

Evidence to date shows that the combined effect of the Covid-19 pandemic and associated restrictions is that approximately one person in every five in the general population in Ireland (and elsewhere) has significantly increased psychological distress (e.g. anxiety, depression).

Some people with think that's ok, or will dilute it and say it was worth it in order to keep order.

Happened throughout history and there's documentaries about this kind of thing, people saying this would never happen in our society or if it happened somewhere else.

People's human rights trampled on, but ironically it was the usual cohort of society who love being herded like sheep. The same type of people would have been mauling rosary beads long ago and letting the priest dictate their sociatial endeavours and goals.

Same thing really all or nothing.

I love a good rant on a Tuesday morning.

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388134#Comment_119388134

At present we're with omnicron, yes you're right.

So can we conclude that for healthy people the vaccines or boosters,one of the same really at present are as much use as a chocolate fireplace, but for immunocompromised people and the elderly it's wise to take it.

On your last paragraph you mentioned severe covid, well as it stands severe covid isn't impacting like it did before.

The vaccines still probably give a limited protection to people, but the cure and the cause are almost on equal footing as far as vaccines and your natural immunity pushing it back .

At least it's not as bad as it was. So if it keeps on mutating more and more it'll be probably go from a roaring lion to a quite purr....

So it's all good now again. And hopefully those sites and people suggesting that the vaccines are wiping people's immunity are false.

It's a very chicken and the egg coming first observation.

drunkmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388083#Comment_119388083

Bucket loads some of it some lived.

How you can even ask for evidence at this stage in the game, are you that disconnected from people physically you haven't seen, heard, read or experienced the damage caused by lockdowns.

I expect to hear the positive benefits of famine shortly the way this is going.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388875#Comment_119388875

So no, you've no actual evidence then.

Just your own biased experience that's been influenced by a steady stream of conspiracy theory grifters marketing to you.

drunkmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388908#Comment_119388908

Buckets as in loads, not sure what's the point in showing captain pregnant people any though if they/him believe it was a positive thing.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388939#Comment_119388939

If you have the evidence, please show it. Otherwise we can conclude that you have none.

And your silly insult does remind that we're still also waiting for you to substantiate your claim about the vaccines harming pregnant people. Or we can conclude that you also have no evidence for that.

Much like how every single time on this thread you've been challenged you've not been able to support any of your claims.

But please, keep trying with the silly "Captain Pregnant People" style insults (what ever the joke is supposed to be there.)

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387888#Comment_119387888

Perfect example of taking one line out of context so you can twist it to make out something different was stated.

Lockdowns were bad. Covid was bad. The last couple of years were bad.

However, lockdowns provided an important function during the last couple of years such that despite them being a bad thing, they were the better option than doing nothing.

drunkmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119389027#Comment_119389027

That's cognitive dissonance in all its glory right there.

drunkmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388958#Comment_119388958

Silly insults your the one who went all wokey in an attempt to create more fudge.

You've done your research and can't find any evidence lockdowns were a disaster and should never happen again. Wow!

There's no point me providing you with any information as you simply won't believe it as anyone who doesn't believe what you do is simply a grifter.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119389326#Comment_119389326

Lol. Still not sure what you're on about with "wokey" or "create more fudge." Your insult is just getting more and more bizarre. Not sure even you understand it.

And yup. No evidence provided because you have none. Again.

Added to the pile with the pregnancy thing... the menstruation thing... the Israeli study you didn't read... What else..?

drunkmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119389522#Comment_119389522

Yup no evidence provided, you'll need to go on that voyage of discovery all by yourself unless your willing to publish your list of approved sources of information, which you won't.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119389662#Comment_119389662

lol. The classic "do your own research" bluff.

drunkmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119389733#Comment_119389733

As I said this is a discovery process you need to do yourself.

We can't keep holding your hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387512#Comment_119387512

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoBSTEFKmDw

Biden made that claim...

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119389862#Comment_119389862

But you never supply any evidence or ever actually explain your beliefs beyond twitter length. And when you're asked even the most basic questions, you ignore and dodge and make bizarre insults.

When did this hand holding occur?

And again, why would I be convinced by your telling me to convince myself? Everything I've seen from yourself and your conspiracy pals, tells me that your arguments aren't convincing or logical.

I have done my own research.

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119389883#Comment_119389883

Can't tell the full context of that line, but he starts the clip by saying that we're NOT in a position where the vaccines are expected to protect you 100%. Basically get the vaccine, but it doesn't make you immortal.

That comment from Biden was not a statement of scientific fact and he made no claim of vaccines being 100% effective.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119389883#Comment_119389883

And every loon on here who is spinning vaccines are killing us is also on another thread talking about him having dementia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119389919#Comment_119389919

"You're not going to get covid if you have these vaccinations"

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119389942#Comment_119389942

I don't understand the connection. Sorry.

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119389952#Comment_119389952

"Your not going to die in a car crash if you wear a seat belt"

"Your not going to get a headache if you take an aspirin."

"Your not going to hit by a car if you wear a helmet when cycling."

"Your not going to cut your fingers gardening if you wear gloves."

"Your not going to trip over if you stop looking at your phone when walking down the street."

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119389977#Comment_119389977

Did Biden also say those things?

drunkmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119389977#Comment_119389977

Oh give over and admit they lied..

https://twitter.com/TheMilkBarTV/status/1550647428809781251?s=20&t=7akX7V9idCTP7PWTkRdySQ

bad2thebone

Biden is supposedly the most powerful individual on the planet and it's obvious he has people telling him what's right and wrong.

The American president has a lot of influence.

People will take him for his word, but the debunkers will excuse it,or post a response oh here we go now, next they'll bring up whatever again....

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119390028#Comment_119390028

More twitter dumping.

Can you provide a direct quote from a medical organisation that directly states 100% that you will not get covid?

If not (which we both know you're not) why not?

Why is all you can point to is these out of context quotes?

drunkmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119390067#Comment_119390067

Really, out of context. Are we really going back to you saying they didn't say what they said.

There was an active campaign here and globally urging people to get the jab to protect others, they peddled a lie, it was never going to do that which was admitted by the Whitehouse advisor a few days ago.

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119390018#Comment_119390018

... And Trump didn't tell people to drink bleach or stick a UV light up their backside. He did however have no idea how stupid it was for him to be asking if those were viable actions to take to combat covid.

Biden in no way was making any claim about vaccines being 100% effective. It was merely a comment about taking vaccines saving lives overall and not a scientific statement.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119390108#Comment_119390108

Cool. So why aren't you able to find any examples of medical organisations directly stating unambiguously 100%?

And nope, that's not what I'm saying. More hypocrisy on your part.

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119390108#Comment_119390108

It's funny how you have to post in your face evidence, that goes against the script of the cult . But they pull out an eraser and rub it out and say what they meant to say was....

Absolutely insane.

That's a brilliant clip, fair play to whomever did the "research" to show up the lies.

We had our very own expert's at the same shoite.

Buyer's remorse can be annoying alright when you invested your self into the current thing.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119390108#Comment_119390108

It wasn't a lie.

To say "it was never going to do that" is untrue and contradicted by the evidence:

Vaccine effectiveness (any vaccine) against SARS-CoV-2 infection of any severity

Waning was slightly slower for mRNA-1273, with a vaccine effectiveness of 96% (94 to 97; p<0·001) at 15–30 days and 59% (18 to 79; p=0·012) from day 181 onwards...

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-67362200089-7/fulltext

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119389883#Comment_119389883

Any chance the full conversation explained it? Conspiracy theorists love to cut videos so they appear to say what they don’t say.

drunkmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119390202#Comment_119390202

• Vaccine was 100% effective in preventing severe disease as defined by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and 95.3% effective in preventing severe disease as defined by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration
• Vaccine was 100% effective in preventing COVID-19 cases.
• I bet you know who made that claim? I'd be very surprised if you didn't know.
• That was the lie, then they all started peddling it.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119390361#Comment_119390361

Have you withdrawn your earlier claim, made without evidence, that the vaccine was never going to prevent infection or transmisison? A claim which has been discredited with reference to the Lancet study

Is this a new claim, again made without evidence?

It was 100 percent effective in the trials. Where is the lie?

If you are saying it was a lie, then you are saying they knew it could not prevent infection. You have done no such thing.