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.22wmr Rifle

  • 19-04-2021 4:20pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 259 ✭✭ Bog Trotter99


    Does anybody know where I could get a new CZ 457 rifle in this calibre or a similar good make in same calibre. Preferably a varmint model.

    From what I can see on websites is that some only stock .22 or possibly .17


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Comments

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 2,759 Mod ✭✭✭✭ cookimonster


    Ardeesports

    Have a browse through this site -

    https://ardeesports.com/collections/rimfire

    A few options for bolt and semi auto


  • Registered Users Posts: 273 ✭✭ Sparkey84


    hiya. i witnessed a customer enquire about trading in a .22wmr last year in a rfd. point blank no. the dealer described already having too many .22wmr's that just were not selling. i suspect if you considered a second hand rifle you would have the pick of the bunch might find a great example for a good price.


  • Registered Users Posts: 456 ✭✭ Asus1


    Does anybody know where I could get a new CZ 457 rifle in this calibre or a similar good make in same calibre. Preferably a varmint model.

    From what I can see on websites is that some only stock .22 or possibly .17

    I was like you and was going to trade in my 10/22 for a wmr but I went through a few threads on here and decided to go 17hmr.The few dealers I spoke to would sell me second hand or new wmr but were honest that if I went to trade it in a few years they might not take it as trade as they would be stuck with it for a long time.
    Unfortunately the round is not "sexy" any more,the 17hmr is the king of supersonic rimfires now and dealers have little interest in it.Still if you're going to keep it for a long time go and buy one and enjoy it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 259 ✭✭ Bog Trotter99


    Sparkey84 wrote: »
    hiya. i witnessed a customer enquire about trading in a .22wmr last year in a rfd. point blank no. the dealer described already having too many .22wmr's that just were not selling. i suspect if you considered a second hand rifle you would have the pick of the bunch might find a great example for a good price.

    Well someone must have scooped them up because even second hand on the internet I can find only less than 10 new or used in Ireland.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 259 ✭✭ Bog Trotter99


    Asus1 wrote: »
    Unfortunately the round is not "sexy" any more,the 17hmr is the king of supersonic rimfires now and dealers have little interest in it.

    But only in Ireland not elsewhere. Still everyone to their own.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 259 ✭✭ Bog Trotter99


    J.R. wrote: »

    They must have appeared today. I was looking most of last week and weekend.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 259 ✭✭ Bog Trotter99


    Asus1 wrote: »
    I was like you and was going to trade in my 10/22 for a wmr but I went through a few threads on here and decided to go 17hmr.The few dealers I spoke to would sell me second hand or new wmr but were honest that if I went to trade it in a few years they might not take it as trade as they would be stuck with it for a long time.
    Unfortunately the round is not "sexy" any more,the 17hmr is the king of supersonic rimfires now and dealers have little interest in it.Still if you're going to keep it for a long time go and buy one and enjoy it.

    I read some of the old posts here and thought I would reply to this again.

    All bullets drop when they leave the barrel. Does that make them inaccurate? Usually no. Things that make a bullet inaccurate are its weight because lighter bullets can be affected by the wind more than heavier bullets.

    Sniper rounds are mostly heavy bullets. Some travel quite slow compared to screaming light bullets like .223. One of the most well known long range sniper rounds is the .50 cal which has been used by the military at 2000 yards. At 1000 yards this bullet will drop by 270". That is over 22 feet. But the thing is, it has the energy to do whats intended when it gets there.

    At the furthest you would possibly use a .17hmr or .22wmr, say 200 yards.

    .17hmr 20grn will drop by 11" and deliver 72ft-lbs.
    .22wmr 40grn will drop by 21" and deliver 102ft-lbs.

    .17hmr 20grn at 100 yards will drop by .6" and deliver 137ft-lbs.
    .22wmr 40grn at 100 yards will drop by 1.9" and deliver 170ft-lbs.

    Horses for courses as they say, but ft-lbs is energy expelled into your target. Drop is just gravity which affects all. It all depends what you want to do.

    I cannot post examples but there are plenty of videos on subject on Youtube.


  • Registered Users Posts: 456 ✭✭ Asus1


    I read some of the old posts here and thought I would reply to this again.

    All bullets drop when they leave the barrel. Does that make them inaccurate? Usually no. Things that make a bullet inaccurate are its weight because lighter bullets can be affected by the wind more than heavier bullets.

    Sniper rounds are mostly heavy bullets. Some travel quite slow compared to screaming light bullets like .223. One of the most well known long range sniper rounds is the .50 cal which has been used by the military at 2000 yards. At 1000 yards this bullet will drop by 270". That is over 22 feet. But the thing is, it has the energy to do whats intended when it gets there.

    At the furthest you would possibly use a .17hmr or .22wmr, say 200 yards.

    .17hmr 20grn will drop by 11" and deliver 72ft-lbs.
    .22wmr 40grn will drop by 21" and deliver 102ft-lbs.

    .17hmr 20grn at 100 yards will drop by .6" and deliver 137ft-lbs.
    .22wmr 40grn at 100 yards will drop by 1.9" and deliver 170ft-lbs.

    Horses for courses as they say, but ft-lbs is energy expelled into your target. Drop is just gravity which affects all. It all depends what you want to do.

    I cannot post examples but there are plenty of videos on subject on Youtube.

    Not going to argue with any of that other than I think the 17hmr beats the wmr in that's it's less bothered by wind over a certain distance as it's going so fast,could be wrong.
    But it seems it's been surpassed in Ireland by the hmr for whatever reason and I suppose one day the hmr will be surpassed by something else.Most dealers asked me why I was trading the Ruger and I said I wanted a bit more distance to take Grey's, magpie and a few fox,not one offered me a wmr but they all said hmr first then some said 223,make of that what you will.
    Good luck which whatever you pick.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 259 ✭✭ Bog Trotter99


    Asus1 wrote: »
    Not going to argue with any of that other than I think the 17hmr beats the wmr in that's it's less bothered by wind over a certain distance as it's going so fast,could be wrong.
    But it seems it's been surpassed in Ireland by the hmr for whatever reason and I suppose one day the hmr will be surpassed by something else.Most dealers asked me why I was trading the Ruger and I said I wanted a bit more distance to take Grey's, magpie and a few fox,not one offered me a wmr but they all said hmr first then some said 223,make of that what you will.
    Good luck which whatever you pick.

    I can show you videos of .22wmr at 730 yards....pm.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 273 ✭✭ Sparkey84


    Well someone must have scooped them up because even second hand on the internet I can find only less than 10 new or used in Ireland.

    really doubt they all sold, have you rang any dealers? a good bit of stock will not be online.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,872 ✭✭✭ minktrapper


    Anyone know what kind of group the 22 WMR delivers at 200yds.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 259 ✭✭ Bog Trotter99


    Anyone know what kind of group the 22 WMR delivers at 200yds.

    Possibly the same as you can achieve with any other rimfire depending on bullet type strength of wind and whether you can see straight.

    If a man can hit a 24"x24" steel plate at 730 yards and hit similar with a .22lr at even further 1000 yards, I doubt you should have much problem at 200 yards.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcnunlqzjE8

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6j8O-rCfEc


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 259 ✭✭ Bog Trotter99


    Sparkey84 wrote: »
    really doubt they all sold, have you rang any dealers? a good bit of stock will not be online.

    Actually I text and emailed all online dealers. As to yet only one got back to me to say yah or nah. He actually got back to me by email from his phone on Sunday afternoon just an hour of me sending him a message. That is what I call a good business man and worthy of dealing with. The rest????????????


  • Registered Users Posts: 273 ✭✭ Sparkey84


    Actually I text and emailed all online dealers. As to yet only one got back to me to say yah or nah. He actually got back to me by email from his phone on Sunday afternoon just an hour of me sending him a message. That is what I call a good business man and worthy of dealing with. The rest????????????

    where abouts in country are you?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 259 ✭✭ Bog Trotter99


    Mayo.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,182 ✭✭✭ Feisar


    Actually I text and emailed all online dealers. As to yet only one got back to me to say yah or nah. He actually got back to me by email from his phone on Sunday afternoon just an hour of me sending him a message. That is what I call a good business man and worthy of dealing with. The rest????????????

    I said it before about the online thing, I wouldn't hang my hat on whether or not a lad answered an email as a sign one way or the other. I know not everyone agrees with me on that. A lot of lads set these things up or get them set up and half forget about them. A email account, like a shop needs to be attended it would appear a lot of people don't realize this.

    As regards rifles I was on McBrides website, he's based Athlone, plenty of WMRs there.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Registered Users Posts: 273 ✭✭ Sparkey84


    Mayo.

    if you like ill pm you the details of the dealer i spoke about, but he is other end of the country.


  • Registered Users Posts: 273 ✭✭ Sparkey84


    also do you have a wanted add in the for sale section here. i put up one for a 39a last month and was sorted within two or three posts


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 259 ✭✭ Bog Trotter99


    I really wanted new though because I am changing down and have just sold mine.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 37,373 ✭✭✭✭ Mellor


    Things that make a bullet inaccurate are its weight because lighter bullets can be affected by the wind more than heavier bullets.
    Wind can be an issue. But it’s not the only aspect affecting accuracy.
    I wmr has a reputation for being unstable in flight, due to its speed. That’s seen as the issue rather than drop.
    At the furthest you would possibly use a .17hmr or .22wmr, say 200 yards.

    .17hmr 20grn will drop by 11" and deliver 72ft-lbs.
    .22wmr 40grn will drop by 21" and deliver 102ft-lbs.

    .17hmr 20grn at 100 yards will drop by .6" and deliver 137ft-lbs.
    .22wmr 40grn at 100 yards will drop by 1.9" and deliver 170ft-lbs.

    Agree with the numbers. Wmr carries more energy. Which is a consideration.
    But they if that’s the main concern what about 17wsm.

    190ft.lbs at 200years
    280ft.lbs at 100yards


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 259 ✭✭ Bog Trotter99


    Mellor wrote: »
    Wind can be an issue. But it’s not the only aspect affecting accuracy.
    I wmr has a reputation for being unstable in flight, due to its speed. That’s seen as the issue rather than drop.

    Well if someone can film himself hitting a 2ft square plate at 730 yards and same again with an even slower .22lr at 1013 yards.....then give me slow any day. Hype is hype.

    A .22wmr at 100 yards and a .17hmr are approx same speed at about 150 yards. So at what speed do all these bullets become inaccurate?

    Inaccuracy can be down to lots of things. Speed is well down the list. If it was a main factor then what is a .50 doing at 2000 yards when it is travelling at only 950ft-sec and has dropped 1,400" which is approx 116 feet?

    Mellor wrote: »
    Agree with the numbers. Wmr carries more energy. Which is a consideration.
    But they if that’s the main concern what about 17wsm.

    190ft.lbs at 200years
    280ft.lbs at 100yards

    I am changing down so want less power than my ex-rifle a .223.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,182 ✭✭✭ Feisar


    The 17HMR drops and drifts less than the 22WMR. Sure the 22 has more power but it's not enough that gets one into a bigger category of quarry. So what's the argument for the WMR? Unless foxes are beating you out of it at circa 50 yards I'd say get the HMR.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Registered Users Posts: 456 ✭✭ Asus1


    Feisar wrote: »
    I said it before about the online thing, I wouldn't hang my hat on whether or not a lad answered an email as a sign one way or the other. I know not everyone agrees with me on that. A lot of lads set these things up or get them set up and half forget about them. A email account, like a shop needs to be attended it would appear a lot of people don't realize this.

    As regards rifles I was on McBrides website, he's based Athlone, plenty of WMRs there.

    Agree I rang him and I got a trade price for my Ruger over phone so went with him for new cz 457 hmr,he does indeed have a good few wmr in stock.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 259 ✭✭ Bog Trotter99


    Feisar wrote: »
    The 17HMR drops and drifts less than the 22WMR. Sure the 22 has more power but it's not enough that gets one into a bigger category of quarry. So what's the argument for the WMR? Unless foxes are beating you out of it at circa 50 yards I'd say get the HMR.

    The only thing that matters when your shot hits its quarry is placement and energy delivered.


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,373 ✭✭✭✭ Mellor


    Well if someone can film himself hitting a 2ft square plate at 730 yards and same again with an even slower .22lr at 1013 yards.....then give me slow any day. Hype is hype.
    Somebody can also film himself throwing a basketball into a basket from 100yards. But he can’t do it consistently.
    Plus 2ft is a big plate.
    22lr is often said to be more accurate than 22wmr at distance.
    A .22wmr at 100 yards and a .17hmr are approx same speed at about 150 yards. So at what speed do all these bullets become inaccurate?
    They are different ballistic rounds.
    WMR has a reputation for being unstable, tumbling, and generally not grouping tight. I’ve heard twist is an issue, but I don’t know, I don’t own one.
    I am changing down so want less power than my ex-rifle a .223.
    So you want less power that a 17wsm
    But more power than a 17hmr

    Fairly narrow range. WMR fits the bill.
    Seems like your mind is made up, but you asked why it had a bad name that’s all.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 259 ✭✭ Bog Trotter99


    Mellor wrote: »
    Somebody can also film himself throwing a basketball into a basket from 100yards. But he can’t do it consistently.
    Plus 2ft is a big plate.
    22lr is often said to be more accurate than 22wmr at distance.


    They are different ballistic rounds.
    WMR has a reputation for being unstable, tumbling, and generally not grouping tight. I’ve heard twist is an issue, but I don’t know, I don’t own one.


    So you want less power that a 17wsm
    But more power than a 17hmr

    Fairly narrow range. WMR fits the bill.
    Seems like your mind is made up, but you asked why it had a bad name that’s all.

    I dont know how we got into this, but I have been shooting all my life and an old codger now, hence one reason for the change down.

    Regards the things 'you hear'. The .22wmr has been around for 62 years now.

    No I do not want a hmr, it was others suggested I do that over a wmr.

    Physics is physics and it cant really be changed. Light rounds are more susceptible to wind drift unless at very high speed. Being as all bullets decrease in speed, then a lighter bullet will become more and more susceptible. One reason we do not stick a .22 on the end of an artillery shell and try and hit targets at miles distance.

    Every round has its place. But knock down is kinetic energy delivered. So you do not try and stop a charging wild boar with number 7 shot. You use a slug. Because the lighter shot even if they all hit will not do the job. The slug weighing the same as all the shot together, will.

    Yes heavier bullets drop more than lighter ones. But all bullets drop, so your barrel is never actually pointing at your target. It is always aiming well over it no matter what calibre you use.

    Every other country goes with .22wmr unless for shooting small game like birds etc. Thats ok.

    As I said I am looking for a new .22wmr and thats it. I do not believe the hype of the hmr, but it does have its place. It was introduced in 2002 and no doubt had a huge advertising budget to push it.

    This one is simple for anyone to understand. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpK2P9zhH44


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,174 ✭✭✭ J.R.




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,174 ✭✭✭ J.R.




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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,182 ✭✭✭ Feisar


    I know it’s second hand but that’s a tasty rifle:

    https://outdoorsports.ie/collections/rifle/products/anschutz-1720-22wmr-rifle

    First they came for the socialists...



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