how much difference does bike and equipment make

2lazytogetup

if you put a decent club cyclist or pro rider and give them a 200euro hybrid aluminum bike from argos or halfords and just a tracksuit, no clip in pedals, no aerodynamic clothes, how much different would their performance be.

Are we talking a drop of 10% or 50% in speed over say 100km distance?

magicbastarder

nowhere *near* 50%. 5-10% i think; GCN have done some videos on this.

2lazytogetup

magicbastarder wrote: »

nowhere *near* 50%. 5-10% i think; GCN have done some videos on this.

Thanks Magicbastarder. ill check that out.

im thinking of doing some big races around ireland over next few years and wondering if i need to spend money on bike and equiptment. or if its more important to just be fit.

magicbastarder

races or sportives?

magicbastarder

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wdb7KEc7xJI

fat bloke

GCN and youtube generally have tonnes of these type vids but none over 100k I'd say. 10 to 15 % over 100k equates to a lot of time and a lot of distance lost / gained.
If you had a cheap hybrid like you describe I'd say I'd possibly tramp along at 22-25 kph on the flat, but on a good road bike set up that would maybe 30-32+. That's a huge difference.

2lazytogetup

magicbastarder wrote: »

races or sportives?

Sportives, i like the group element of cycling. what kind of speeds over 100k would i need to average to be able to to be half way up the classification? 30 km/h, 40 km/h?? Thanks for asking.

Macy0161

Most sportives aren't timed in my experience. A lot aren't even mass start. Far too many variables for average speed. Terrain, wind, how long people stop etc. Even individually, whether you get your fuelling right (or not).

Marty Bird

The bike doesn’t make the rider.

magicbastarder

oh, sportives would be more relaxed, you wouldn't need to worry about 40km/h!

as fat bloke mentioned as well, there's lots of ifs, buts and maybes. the difference would become much more pronounced at higher speeds.
but if you're planning on doing sportives, it'd possibly be reliability (and trustworthiness of brakes) you'd need high up on your priority list.

2lazytogetup

thanks all for those responses. much appreciated.

magicbastarder

getting back to your original question; you mentioned tracksuits. that'd be the biggest error!

2lazytogetup

magicbastarder wrote: »

getting back to your original question; you mentioned tracksuits. that'd be the biggest error!

tks, ill look into that.

Tombo2001

Just something to consider - it could also be a question of comfort, rather than just speed?

Session2019!

Been cycling 3 years now. Second hand alu road bike, no clip in pedals, runners, cheapest gear possible I can get my hands on. At the time I didn't think I'd stick to the cycling so went searching for the cheapest stuff I could find but absolutely love it now. Other than my own cycling I've done a lot of the big events, ring of kerry, ring of beara, ride Dingle, ring of Claire etc. Also do triathlons with the same gear. do get a bit of stick about my equipment but it works for me and suits me, I don't know any different 😂

Might upgrade the bike this year to a second hand carbon bike if I can find a good deal.

2lazytogetup

Session2019! wrote: »

Been cycling 3 years now. Second hand alu road bike, no clip in pedals, runners, cheapest gear possible I can get my hands on. At the time I didn't think I'd stick to the cycling so went searching for the cheapest stuff I could find but absolutely love it now. Other than my own cycling I've done a lot of the big events, ring of kerry, ring of beara, ride Dingle, ring of Claire etc. Also do triathlons with the same gear. do get a bit of stick about my equipment but it works for me and suits me, I don't know any different ��

Might upgrade the bike this year to a second hand carbon bike if I can find a good deal.

im in the same boat. i dont want to put money into it and then if not used after a few months, it just sits there reminding me that i wasted so much money and not being used. or in my original question if it makes any difference in performance.

Session2019!

2lazytogetup wrote: »

im in the same boat. i dont want to put money into it and then if not used after a few months, it just sits there reminding me that i wasted so much money and not being used. or in my original question if it makes any difference in performance.

It is probably time for me to upgrade a bit of my gear seen as cycling is now a permanent fixture in my life. I can't answer the performance aspect of your question but when it comes to doing the sportives/triathlons I seem to do fairly OK timewise. I have friends that have some pretty expensive tech but suits them as they prefer the shorter distances. Long distance cycling is my preference so comfort for me is key.

Tombo2001

2lazytogetup wrote: »

im in the same boat. i dont want to put money into it and then if not used after a few months, it just sits there reminding me that i wasted so much money and not being used. or in my original question if it makes any difference in performance.

The one thing I will say is that - at the moment anyway - bikes have a very good resale value.

Interesting story: I had a decent bike stolen a few years back. I was ineligible for another 18 months for BTW, so decided to buy a stop gap hybrid for 200 euro, second hand bike that was 5 years old (though with a recognized brand, Specialized).

That was three years ago.

Sold the bike last month - when I bought it, it had come with a lock that costs 50......so says I to myself, I will put it on adverts for 150. Thinking I was being cheeky almost.

Anyway, didnt think about it again as sometimes I will put stuff on adverts and there is no response, at all....

Checked a day later - 14 bids at offer price, some of those bids asking to pay more than the offer.

Long story short, I could have made a profit on it despite having it for three years on/ off.

magicbastarder

2lazytogetup wrote: »

im in the same boat. i dont want to put money into it and then if not used after a few months, it just sits there reminding me that i wasted so much money and not being used. or in my original question if it makes any difference in performance.

as has been alluded to, a correct fit (i.e. being comfortable on the bike) is probably more important than how 'good' the bike is. cycling shorts can help *a lot* if spending hours in the saddle.
if you're doing sportives and are considering a hybrid, don't consider hybrids with a suspension fork.

CantGetNoSleep

There was a lad on our group rides (25-26kmh) pre-covid who used to ride a full-on hybrid. Not even something you would consider a flat bar road bike, but a real hybrid with rack, mudguards, etc. - must have been at least 15kg. I always wondered what he would be capable of on a road bike.

mcgratheoin

fat bloke wrote: »

GCN and youtube generally have tonnes of these type vids but none over 100k I'd say. 10 to 15 % over 100k equates to a lot of time and a lot of distance lost / gained.
If you had a cheap hybrid like you describe I'd say I'd possibly tramp along at 22-25 kph on the flat, but on a good road bike set up that would maybe 30-32+. That's a huge difference.

Yeah that's a fair estimate - when I upgraded from an entry level(ish) road bike (Al frame, Sora groupset) to a decent mid range road bike (CF frame, Athena groupset) I knocked 4 minutes off a regular 30K loop I was doing at the time. Average went from 30 to 32.5kph. On a cheap hybrid I'd probably have been knocking around at 25 max.

Alu roadbike will make a big difference - pedals and gear are up to yourself but I'd be swapping the pedals out straight away - I find it makes a huge difference personally and it's a relatively cheap upgrade to make.

Daroxtar

Many sportives have a "road bike only" rule so you may want to check that out before entering. I spent a while doing spins up to 100km on my hybrid before switching to a road bike. There's a fair bit of difference. I'd say my average moved from 25-27kmh up to 30kmh fairly instantly.

CapnHex

A change of perspective perhaps, sportives are not races. Least enjoyable I did was at my maximum ability as I saw nothing, other than the wheel of the bike in front of me. Most enjoyable, every other sportive where I visited a part of the country not seen before and chatted along the way, taking in the scenery (other than the wet days!).

ednwireland

its all about the bike

07Lapierre

Daroxtar wrote: »

Many sportives have a "road bike only" rule so you may want to check that out before entering.

Really? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a sportive insist on road bikes only?

mcgratheoin

07Lapierre wrote: »

Really? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a sportive insist on road bikes only?

I've definitely seen no bullhorns and no tri bars as a safety measure for hooking someone else's handlebars in a group setting. Not sure if that extends to flat bars as a general rule

Mr. Cats

07Lapierre wrote: »

Really? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a sportive insist on road bikes only?

Think there was a couple of lads did the Wicklow 200 on some Dublin Bikes scheme bikes a couple of years back for charity.

MojoMaker

A change from aluminium to CF isn't necessarily an upgrade. That's a bit of a fallacy driven by the industry and devoured by the consumer.

Now a change from a low-quality heavy bike to something more sprightly built to a higher quality level where you're less likely to experience annoying 'faults', yep than would count as an upgrade.

TheBoyConor

If your bike and gear suits your needs and makes you happy, then that is enough.

I my opinion, getting into the area of dimishing returns likes spending a few hundred high the in-vogue cycling wear or a thousand or more on the latest frame so as to get a 3 or 4% increase in times or speeds is not something that I am interested in or require. But then I have no time for or interest in chasing statistics or tracking performance on apps and the like.

I have a flat bar aluminium hybrid I got a few years back. I go out and ride it in my regular gym pants and a top, I have a nice time, exercise and enjoy the spin and scenery. It suits what I want from it and that is fine for me. Spending hundred and thousands on gear that I don't want or need will not increase my enjoyment of it.

Expensive gear and equipment might get you some improvements in statistics, but unless statistics increase your enjoyment of it, it is pointless.

mcgratheoin

TheBoyConor wrote: »

If your bike and gear suits your needs and makes you happy, then that is enough.

Precisely - whatever gets you out on the road

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Expensive gear and equipment might get you some improvements in statistics, but unless statistics increase your enjoyment of it, it is pointless.

And to finish the point - if a shiny new piece of kit is what you need to get you out and enjoying it, then go for it!!

magicbastarder

Mr. Cats wrote: »

Think there was a couple of lads did the Wicklow 200 on some Dublin Bikes scheme bikes a couple of years back for charity.

including the now editor of the sunday business post, richard oakley.

2lazytogetup

am i totally mad.... i can get 25 km/h on this front suspension mtb.

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/ie/atx-2-2020


its only about 12kg as ive added nothing to it. i need it for some canal cycles but would be looking to do 150/170km events like the ring of kerry. i dont have the money to get a second bike if it will only give me a 10% improvement. i average about 28km/h over 100km.

i imagine cycle couriers in India cycling 12 hours a day on a steel cheap bike would do well in some irish races.

07Lapierre

mcgratheoin wrote: »

I've definitely seen no bullhorns and no tri bars as a safety measure for hooking someone else's handlebars in a group setting. Not sure if that extends to flat bars as a general rule

No it doesn't usually extend to flat bars.

07Lapierre

Mr. Cats wrote: »

Think there was a couple of lads did the Wicklow 200 on some Dublin Bikes scheme bikes a couple of years back for charity.

Yes i seem to recall one guy doing the 200 on a recumbent bike.

magicbastarder

2lazytogetup wrote: »

i average about 28km/h over 100km.

that shows good fitness, regardless of the bike.

letape

2lazytogetup wrote: »

am i totally mad.... i can get 25 km/h on this front suspension mtb.

i imagine cycle couriers in India cycling 12 hours a day on a steel cheap bike would do well in some irish races.

As others have said, a sportif is not a race. For most people they are about enjoyment, with an element of personal competition and achievement for some riders - there are no classifications or results. Riders start at different times and times are not published.

Buying a proper road bike and investing in cycling clothing is also not all about “statistics” or speed. It’s also about comfort - wearing clothes that have been designed for cycling make a big difference compared with wearing trainers and a tracksuit. A well designed and made road bike that fits correctly will also be much more comfortable over a long time in the saddle than a bike designed for commuting or for off road. From personal experience, if I’m comfortable, I’ll enjoy it more and am more likely to want to cycle.

seamus

Your biggest enemy is friction - with the wind, and to a lesser extent with the road.

Someone else can put up the calculations, but basically the more aerodynamic you can make yourself, you save lots in effort. Which means you can go a little faster or a little further, for the same effort.

This is where the gear makes the difference. Tracksuits, no matter how tight, will catch some of the wind, pulling you back. Big wide flat bars and an upright position make your body catch more wind, pulling you back. Regular runners are designed to be very airy, catching lots of wind. GAA shorts won't be as bad as tracksuit bottoms, but they'll still catch quite a bit of air.

You don't have to spend a lot of money, you just need the right equipment.

Macy0161

There's a fair difference between bar width of flat bar road bike, and hybrid (or mtb) though?

It'd be hard to imagine wide bars going well in a large group that you sometimes get at the start of sportives, regardless of the rules to be honest.

Mr. Cats wrote: »

Think there was a couple of lads did the Wicklow 200 on some Dublin Bikes scheme bikes a couple of years back for charity.

But that wasn't a CI event, as the IVCA wasn't affliated. Same as the Ring of Kerry being a free for all regarding bikes.

hesker

Would definitely recommend getting something cheap but roadworthy until you know you are interested enough to spend more.

When I got back into cycling I bought an old steel lightweight with Columbus tubing from the mid 80s. Cost me €230 in mint condition. It had components which were top of the range at the time it was built so I was delighted with it as it was something I could never afford when I was a kid.

I did about 10 Sportives on it including ROK. Did me absolutely fine. Good enough for about 3.45 to 4 hours over 100km.

I had more conversations with people on that bike than I have now on my latest and greatest. Loads of people used to ask me about it and tell me stories of their own steel bikes from when they were young.

thehairygrape

Interesting thread.
I would imagine that unless you’re in to racing and gettting marginal improvements in your times, then the actual bike wouldn’t make that much difference. A really expensive bike can’t pedal itself, and Sean Kelly would beat me hands down riding a tricycle.
However, clothing is another matter. I couldn’t imagine doing a long cycle in shorts and tracksuit bottoms. Would definitely invest is a pair of good cycling shorts/long legged version for the winter (although I personally hate leggings both in running and cycling).
As mentioned earlier, a good bike fit is probably the best investment I ever made. Just feels easier on the bike, so can go for longer without strain. Then again, I’m not a fast cyclist (or runner).

grogi

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

There was a lad on our group rides (25-26kmh) pre-covid who used to ride a full-on hybrid. Not even something you would consider a flat bar road bike, but a real hybrid with rack, mudguards, etc. - must have been at least 15kg. I always wondered what he would be capable of on a road bike.

Weight of the bike accounts for a very small weight of the raider/bike combination. Adding 10kg to the bike does not cripple you a lot, a bit on the inclines only.

Long rides what matters is aero - drop bars will get you more aero and allow to cycle on flats faster with same effort.

YakerK

There are so many factors that contribute towards both speed and comfort it's really impossible to say what someone should do, but from my own perspective I upgraded my road bike from an lower mid-range bike (alu frame, carbon forks, basic wheels, 105 groupset) to an upper-mid range bike (all carbon, ultegra, slightly better wheels) and I can clearly notice the difference in performance. say it's 10%-15% faster all other factors being equal. That's not going to be important to many, but for solo rides it allows me to go further and in group rides I spend less energy - both wins for me!

Although to be fully fair, I suspect the tyres are the single biggest factor, both bikes had road tyres, but on my older bike they are considerably heavier duty than on the newer ones which have a much slicker contact surface!

07Lapierre

A light bike
Skinsuit
Aero Helmet
EPO
growth homone
Cortisone
And an empty coke can

joe40

Has anyone ever compared themselves on a good road bike orientated hybrid compared to an actual road. The only difference is essentially the handle bars. ( Open to correction here) on most leisure cycles riders are rarely riding on the drops mostly hands on top of handle bar.

smacl

Mr. Cats wrote: »

Think there was a couple of lads did the Wicklow 200 on some Dublin Bikes scheme bikes a couple of years back for charity.

I was on a hybrid with front suspension myself first time doing it and my brother in-law was on a 26" hardtail. Another friend also on a hardtail called it a day after 160k. Personally I wouldn't fancy a flat bar on anything over 100k again given a choice. It took me a while to move to drops but they have a lot of advantages, i.e. lower and more stable descending, more hand positions give more comfort on a long day, drops give you a chance to get out of the wind a bit when it is blustery (particularly if you ride solo), gear changes are lighter. Even more important is comfy gear and a decent saddle that works for you. Bib shorts with a decent pad, good gloves, layers that let you sweat and dry quickly if you get wet. Wind proof gilet and shoe covers are nice in cooler weather.

Slower than most club cyclists myself but was about an hour faster over the 200k on road bike than the hybrid.

ED E

joe40 wrote: »

Has anyone ever compared themselves on a good road bike orientated hybrid compared to an actual road. The only difference is essentially the handle bars. ( Open to correction here) on most leisure cycles riders are rarely riding on the drops mostly hands on top of handle bar.

It's not about the drops, it's about the hoods

TGD

2lazytogetup wrote: »

if you put a decent club cyclist or pro rider and give them a 200euro hybrid aluminum bike from argos or halfords and just a tracksuit, no clip in pedals, no aerodynamic clothes, how much different would their performance be.

Are we talking a drop of 10% or 50% in speed over say 100km distance?

Your relative drop in speed would be much less than that of a pro ricer or good club racer as you would be going slower and wind-drag etc. has less negative impact the slower you go.

Flyer1

I started road cycling last year on a €300 10 year old alu frame road bike. I was consistently averaging 25.5-27 km/h over 2/3 hour spins.

Friend of mine offered me his 1 year old carbon road bike with full ultegra drive train and disc brakes there 2 weeks ago for a price that I could not refuse.

I notice my average speed now is 30-31km/h on the same spins as the previous bike, there's a nice bit of climbing involved so I reckon the overall lighter bike and better selection of gearing has helped. The new bike is significantly more comfortable too, I attribute it partially to the change from 23 - 28mm tyres but also the more forgiving geometry of the bike. The carbon bike is also significantly lighter on paper but I can't say i've noticed that on climbs as of yet.

Yellahmann

The big gains are going from a basic bike like a 99 euro mtb to an entry level road bike with tiagra.

Big gains also going from tracksuit and billowing jacket to fitted cycling outfits with hard soles cycling shoes.

Entry level to mid level wheels and tyres also sees gains.

No significant difference will be seen between Tiagra/Mirage to Dura Ace/Record di2/EPS etc.

No significant difference will be seen between a ten year old entry level aluminium road frame and a brand new top spec Carbon frame.

A well maintained second hand road bike frame with the current tiagra components and a good set of wheels will perform the same as the best frame and components with the same wheelset.

Only training makes a difference beyond €1000

2lazytogetup

Yellahmann wrote: »

The big gains are going from a basic bike like a 99 euro mtb to an entry level road bike with tiagra.

Big gains also going from tracksuit and billowing jacket to fitted cycling outfits with hard soles cycling shoes.

Entry level to mid level wheels and tyres also sees gains.

No significant difference will be seen between Tiagra/Mirage to Dura Ace/Record di2/EPS etc.

No significant difference will be seen between a ten year old entry level aluminium road frame and a brand new top spec Carbon frame.

A well maintained second hand road bike frame with the current tiagra components and a good set of wheels will perform the same as the best frame and components with the same wheelset.

Only training makes a difference beyond €1000

great post, ill think ill do what you are suggesting.

2lazytogetup

great responses all. irish cycling must breed a nice friendly culture going on the above responses. i look forward to meeting you type of guys and gals on the sportives when i get into it properly.