I just ran 5k

ecdi

I ran a 5K with an Avg bpm of 157. What does this mean please.
Thanks

Murph_D

It means you ran 5k. Well done. The HR figure is meaningless on its own - you need to know how it relates to your maximum, which is different for everyone.

event

It means across a distance of 5000m your heart rate was an average of 157 beats per minute

ecdi

Is 157 a good level of exertion, or should I be pushing harder?

Annie get your Run

ecdi wrote: »

Is 157 a good level of exertion, or should I be pushing harder?

There's a whole thread on heart rate training. Have a read through it and re read MurphDs response above.

28064212

Annie get your Run wrote: »

There's a whole thread on heart rate training. Have a read through it and re read MurphDs response above.

Alternative viewpoint: don't. I'm assuming you're just starting out running, and are looking to start running more? Forget about heart rate (and pace). You will likely improve the most by just consistently going out and running at an easy pace - easy is probably a lot easier than you're currently doing. If you can't easily chat away for the entire length of your run, you're running too hard. And even then, you should probably still slow down. The vast, vast majority of improvements for beginners are achieved through regular easy running

TLDR: Slow (way) down, run more

Annie get your Run

28064212 wrote: »

Alternative viewpoint: don't. I'm assuming you're just starting out running, and are looking to start running more? Forget about heart rate (and pace). You will likely improve the most by just consistently going out and running at an easy pace - easy is probably a lot easier than you're currently doing. If you can't easily chat away for the entire length of your run, you're running too hard. And even then, you should probably still slow down. The vast, vast majority of improvements for beginners are achieved through regular easy running

TLDR: Slow (way) down, run more

Actually yes, you're 100% right. Ignore my auto response!!

MAULBROOK

I drank 2 bottles of wine, TBF I did walk the dogs this morning. moving on.

ecdi

28064212 wrote: »

Alternative viewpoint: don't. I'm assuming you're just starting out running, and are looking to start running more? Forget about heart rate (and pace). You will likely improve the most by just consistently going out and running at an easy pace - easy is probably a lot easier than you're currently doing. If you can't easily chat away for the entire length of your run, you're running too hard. And even then, you should probably still slow down. The vast, vast majority of improvements for beginners are achieved through regular easy running

TLDR: Slow (way) down, run more

Thank you for your very constructive feedback. I had to Google TLDR haha but i did read it.

I've played competitive team sports for 25 years so I don't know if I'm new to running just looking into the optics of pace and bpm and looking to improve my fitness. Don't really want to run much longer but would like to get my 5k time down. Why do I need to slow down? Thanks

Swiper the fox

ecdi wrote: »

Thank you for your very constructive feedback. I had to Google TLDR haha but i did read it.

I've played competitive team sports for 25 years so I don't know if I'm new to running just looking into the optics of pace and bpm and looking to improve my fitness. Don't really want to run much longer but would like to get my 5k time down. Why do I need to slow down? Thanks

157 is quite high alright, it would suggest that by the end you were probably over 180, sounds like you’re in your late 30s.
If you’re starting out take it easy, run slower than you want to most of the time, then when you want to run fast you’ll be better able for it and your heart won’t be bursting out of your chest.
You never said what time you ran the 5k in?

ecdi

Swiper the fox wrote: »

157 is quite high alright, it would suggest that by the end you were probably over 180, sounds like you’re in your late 30s.
If you’re starting out take it easy, run slower than you want to most of the time, then when you want to run fast you’ll be better able for it and your heart won’t be bursting out of your chest.
You never said what time you ran the 5k in?

35 years old! Today's time was 24:59
According to my app max bpm was 170

28064212

ecdi wrote: »

Thank you for your very constructive feedback. I had to Google TLDR haha but i did read it.

I've played competitive team sports for 25 years so I don't know if I'm new to running just looking into the optics of pace and bpm and looking to improve my fitness. Don't really want to run much longer but would like to get my 5k time down. Why do I need to slow down? Thanks

When you say you don't want to run much longer, do you mean you don't want to target longer distances, or you don't want to get into running? If it's the latter, this is all fairly irrelevant. If it's the former, and you just want to improve at running distances around 5k, the rest of this post is for you.

Running is a skill. It's not often thought of as such, but it is. And as a beginner, like for any other skill, you need to master the basics first. The basics, in running, is easy effort - don't worry about pace, or heart-rate, or cadence, or any of the dozen other aspects that come later. Spend lots and lots of time running easy.

To use an analogy: imagine you were taking up snooker. Would you start by attempting trick shots like curving the white ball around others? Or would you spend hours and hours just making the incredibly basic shots, getting used to how the cue feels in your hands, and how the balls react to each other and the table? A hard run is like a trick shot - it's something you attempt when you're already sufficiently skilled at the basics. The basics are just easy runs

And this concept is even more important when applied to running - attempting a trick shot in snooker and failing is unlikely to result in any notable consequences. You just set the balls up and try again. Attempting a "trick shot" in running that you're not able for carries a very real risk of injury. And even if it doesn't directly cause an injury, it has an immediate impact on how well you can perform the basics for a significant amount of time afterwards - do a hard run today, and you may not even be able for a basic run tomorrow. It turns out, the aerobic benefits of running 5k in 25 minutes and the benefits of running it in 30 minutes are extremely similar, but the negatives of doing it in 25 minutes can be substantial (mainly injury possibilities and recovery time)

Without a specific target* in mind, the most beneficial thing you can do to improve your running skill is increase the amount of running you do, and all of it should be easy. Increase can mean either number of running days per week, or distance (or both), although you should be somewhat cautious about how much you increase it - a rule of thumb is around 10% per week, but it can vary greatly from person to person.

And one final takeaway - it's pretty difficult to do too much easy running. It's very easy to accidentally do too much hard running. The consequences for the former tend to be fairly minimal. The consequences for the latter can be brutal.

*By specific target, I mean you have a date where you want to perform to a specific level, e.g. a race. If you do have a specific target in mind, I would suggest looking into some structured beginner's plans (e.g. Hal Higdon's plans)

BeginnerRunner

What are you using to measure bpm? Because if it's just a fit bit or apple watch it could be wildly inaccurate.

As others have said - slow down in the short term to run faster in the long term.

average_runner

28064212 wrote: »

When you say you don't want to run much longer, do you mean you don't want to target longer distances, or you don't want to get into running? If it's the latter, this is all fairly irrelevant. If it's the former, and you just want to improve at running distances around 5k, the rest of this post is for you.

Running is a skill. It's not often thought of as such, but it is. And as a beginner, like for any other skill, you need to master the basics first. The basics, in running, is easy effort - don't worry about pace, or heart-rate, or cadence, or any of the dozen other aspects that come later. Spend lots and lots of time running easy.

To use an analogy: imagine you were taking up snooker. Would you start by attempting trick shots like curving the white ball around others? Or would you spend hours and hours just making the incredibly basic shots, getting used to how the cue feels in your hands, and how the balls react to each other and the table? A hard run is like a trick shot - it's something you attempt when you're already sufficiently skilled at the basics. The basics are just easy runs

And this concept is even more important when applied to running - attempting a trick shot in snooker and failing is unlikely to result in any notable consequences. You just set the balls up and try again. Attempting a "trick shot" in running that you're not able for carries a very real risk of injury. And even if it doesn't directly cause an injury, it has an immediate impact on how well you can perform the basics for a significant amount of time afterwards - do a hard run today, and you may not even be able for a basic run tomorrow. It turns out, the aerobic benefits of running 5k in 25 minutes and the benefits of running it in 30 minutes are extremely similar, but the negatives of doing it in 25 minutes can be substantial (mainly injury possibilities and recovery time)

Without a specific target* in mind, the most beneficial thing you can do to improve your running skill is increase the amount of running you do, and all of it should be easy. Increase can mean either number of running days per week, or distance (or both), although you should be somewhat cautious about how much you increase it - a rule of thumb is around 10% per week, but it can vary greatly from person to person.

And one final takeaway - it's pretty difficult to do too much easy running. It's very easy to accidentally do too much hard running. The consequences for the former tend to be fairly minimal. The consequences for the latter can be brutal.

*By specific target, I mean you have a date where you want to perform to a specific level, e.g. a race. If you do have a specific target in mind, I would suggest looking into some structured beginner's plans (e.g. Hal Higdon's plans)

Excellent post, but would like to ask a question here.


Sometimes when people run slow for recovery/long run they find their body is less comfortable, things hurt more at a slower pace, its like the body mechanics are different. Is this something you ever come across?

jamule

28064212 wrote: »

When you say you don't want to run much longer, do you mean you don't want to target longer distances, or you don't want to get into running? If it's the latter, this is all fairly irrelevant. If it's the former, and you just want to improve at running distances around 5k, the rest of this post is for you.

Running is a skill. It's not often thought of as such, but it is. And as a beginner, like for any other skill, you need to master the basics first. The basics, in running, is easy effort - don't worry about pace, or heart-rate, or cadence, or any of the dozen other aspects that come later. Spend lots and lots of time running easy.

To use an analogy: imagine you were taking up snooker. Would you start by attempting trick shots like curving the white ball around others? Or would you spend hours and hours just making the incredibly basic shots, getting used to how the cue feels in your hands, and how the balls react to each other and the table? A hard run is like a trick shot - it's something you attempt when you're already sufficiently skilled at the basics. The basics are just easy runs

And this concept is even more important when applied to running - attempting a trick shot in snooker and failing is unlikely to result in any notable consequences. You just set the balls up and try again. Attempting a "trick shot" in running that you're not able for carries a very real risk of injury. And even if it doesn't directly cause an injury, it has an immediate impact on how well you can perform the basics for a significant amount of time afterwards - do a hard run today, and you may not even be able for a basic run tomorrow. It turns out, the aerobic benefits of running 5k in 25 minutes and the benefits of running it in 30 minutes are extremely similar, but the negatives of doing it in 25 minutes can be substantial (mainly injury possibilities and recovery time)

Without a specific target* in mind, the most beneficial thing you can do to improve your running skill is increase the amount of running you do, and all of it should be easy. Increase can mean either number of running days per week, or distance (or both), although you should be somewhat cautious about how much you increase it - a rule of thumb is around 10% per week, but it can vary greatly from person to person.

And one final takeaway - it's pretty difficult to do too much easy running. It's very easy to accidentally do too much hard running. The consequences for the former tend to be fairly minimal. The consequences for the latter can be brutal.

*By specific target, I mean you have a date where you want to perform to a specific level, e.g. a race. If you do have a specific target in mind, I would suggest looking into some structured beginner's plans (e.g. Hal Higdon's plans)

you are almost bang on. The trick shot parraell is alot closer than you give it credit. A disaterous attempt of a trick shot is a sure way to get you fooked out of a snooker club or shot in a pub.
Run too fast too often or rip a blaize, and you will end up in a heap

Murph_D

And don’t forget to chalk the cue.

Jakey Rolling

average_runner wrote: »

Excellent post, but would like to ask a question here.


Sometimes when people run slow for recovery/long run they find their body is less comfortable, things hurt more at a slower pace, its like the body mechanics are different. Is this something you ever come across?

It's certainly something that I experience - there are certain comfortable paces that I can dial-in to. Say 4:30/km tempo, 5:30 easy. If I try easier, say 6:00/km to reduce my HR to "recovery" level then it puts my running mechanics out of kilter. Slower again to 6:30 and I'm shuffling/fast walking. (though it's often my comfortable pace several hours into an ultra).

On 80% of training runs, I run at what effort feels comfortable in the moment, depending on wind, hills etc. The other 20% would be tempo (pace you could maintain for 1 hour/10k) and hill repeats. That kind of basic mix will improve your performances over 5k/10k if you are starting from a low base.

Enduro

ecdi wrote: »

35 years old! Today's time was 24:59
According to my app max bpm was 170

I reckon one of the best things you could do right now is use your watch to tell the time of day and no more. You're setting yourself up to consistently turn a good training run into a bad experience by over-analysis.

28064212

average_runner wrote: »

Excellent post, but would like to ask a question here.

Sometimes when people run slow for recovery/long run they find their body is less comfortable, things hurt more at a slower pace, its like the body mechanics are different. Is this something you ever come across?

Two likely possibilities IMO.

(1) Over-training and/or under-recovering. Those two can be, but aren't always related. Not getting enough sleep or not fuelling properly can contribute to poor performance, even if your training load is light. Either way, it amounts to the same thing - starting your run in bad shape. For a particular run, the advice remains the same - slow down. If your body needs recovery, a slow run is often better than no run at all, where a harder run could just compound matters. Most people know if they aren't getting enough sleep or eating badly if they actually think about it, so it's always worth doing a self-review.

(2) Running form. Some people do find it difficult to combine good form and slow running. The majority of these fall into one of two categories: inexperience at running slow, or they don't actually concentrate on it. The former is relatively simple to fix - it just takes practice. A lot of people think that if they can run 5k hard after working at it for a while, they must be good at an easy 5k - it's not always the case. The latter is a little more complicated. Many people treat a slow run as a "plod" - just put one foot in front of the other and zone out. This results in heavy foot landing, slouching, a weak core, and a dozen other things that end up making it a zombie-slog. Slow runs require just as much thought as other runs. You should be actively engaged in all your runs - easy runs mean putting less physical effort in, not less mental effort

There's a handful of other possibilities like illness or actual injury, but I believe most fall into the categories above

jamule wrote: »

you are almost bang on. The trick shot parraell is alot closer than you give it credit. A disaterous attempt of a trick shot is a sure way to get you fooked out of a snooker club or shot in a pub.
Run too fast too often or rip a blaize, and you will end up in a heap

I was actually going to put that caveat in, but I didn't want to put too much emphasis on my misspent youth

Mar Azul

28064212 wrote: »

Two likely possibilities IMO.

(2) Running form. Some people do find it difficult to combine good form and slow running. The majority of these fall into one of two categories: inexperience at running slow, or they don't actually concentrate on it. The former is relatively simple to fix - it just takes practice. A lot of people think that if they can run 5k hard after working at it for a while, they must be good at an easy 5k - it's not always the case. The latter is a little more complicated. Many people treat a slow run as a "plod" - just put one foot in front of the other and zone out. This results in heavy foot landing, slouching, a weak core, and a dozen other things that end up making it a zombie-slog. Slow runs require just as much thought as other runs. You should be actively engaged in all your runs - easy runs mean putting less physical effort in, not less mental effort

For me it was definitely number 2. I've been running for many years, sadly the older I got - the more stiffness and difficult my workouts became. Best thing I did was slowing down, sounded counterintuitive at the time and now I'm back enjoying and feeling the benefits of my workouts.
Slowing down didn't come easy, fell into the plodding category. Over time it improved and my mantra of "short steps, quick arms" has served me well on easy days and a noticeable increase in cadence and actually finishing an easy run knowing I could go again.

Well done on the 5k, be patient. Hopefully it's a life long habit, so what's the hurry.

Peterx

Just for another point of view...

With 25 years of team sports behind and a bar set at 25 minutes I would suggest trying to get to 20 minutes for the 5k.
Get an 8 or 12 week programme and follow it.
There's plenty of easy running on most programmes but these are still trying times we are living in so nice to have a solid goal to aim for.

I do appreciate the advice to not analyse and to always run easy but some people like the oul analysis, if you are one of those people go ahead and enjoy working out your tempo pace and your interval pace and all that good stuff.

Edit - I myself did way too much speedwork last March/April and got injured, Covid madness and all that. If that happens to you you'll have to get a bike

Andrewf20

I found the 220 - your age for max BPM scarily accurate. I never bothered looking at heart rate even after getting a garmin.

Swiper the fox

Enduro wrote: »

I reckon one of the best things you could do right now is use your watch to tell the time of day and no more. You're setting yourself up to consistently turn a good training run into a bad experience by over-analysis.

The analysis actually makes it fun when you're starting out, it's easy to say forget abou the watch when you've been at it for years and are an elite athlete. The reason more people run now is more than partly because the gadgetry makes it a bit of craic, people are analytic in general.

Enduro

Swiper the fox wrote: »

The analysis actually makes it fun when you're starting out, it's easy to say forget abou the watch when you've been at it for years and are an elite athlete. The reason more people run now is more than partly because the gadgetry makes it a bit of craic, people are analytic in general.

Having a bit of craic with the analytics is absolutely no problem. Having the analytics turn a perfectly good training run into a negative experience isn't though, especially if done regularly. That's the opposite of having the craic, and more likely to lead to a "feck this" point sooner or later (and if the analytics leads to racing every training run to beat the numbers, then that compounds the issue, since progress is less likely and an analytics death spiral is the likely outcome of such a poor approach to training)

Swiper the fox

Enduro wrote: »

Having a bit of craic with the analytics is absolutely no problem. Having the analytics turn a perfectly good training run into a negative experience isn't though, especially if done regularly. That's the opposite of having the craic, and more likely to lead to a "feck this" point sooner or later (and if the analytics leads to racing every training run to beat the numbers, then that compounds the issue, since progress is less likely and an analytics death spiral is the likely outcome of such a poor approach to training)

He’s just starting out, and he’s asking a bit of advice. Telling him to ditch the watch sounds great and it’s common advice given by seasoned runners, but I completely disagree, he’ll learn in time not to be a slave to the watch and to manage his pace but he’s more likely to continue when he has some data to see and analyse

Enduro

Swiper the fox wrote: »

he’ll learn in time not to be a slave to the watch and to manage his pace but he’s more likely to continue when he has some data to see and analyse

- Not if the data is telling him he is putting in more effort and going backwards
- Not if injury puts a stop to his running, thus calling a halt to "over time"

It's not just beginners that have these issues either. Plenty of top end runners put themselves into a very bad place by over-training. It's a danger of being too driven.

Swiper the fox

That's fair enough,
I think telling somebody to leave the watch at home is counterproductive, why do you assume that he won't learn to use the data to improve his training?

ecdi

Using the watch makes the run more enjoyable and can track improvements. Not looking to break any records
My Garmin watch says I burned 635 calories on my run today. Would that be anyway near accurate!