Why are the Gardai not on bikes?

Tombo2001

https://twitter.com/gardainfo/status/1382350973302145026



Take a look at this video. How much is each vehicle costing? 50k?

How many pedal bikes can you buy for each one?

At least 50.

Or Pedelecs, for those reluctant to pedal themselves?

At least 25.

These SUV vehicles will conduct journeys that are 90% urban, short distance.

The Gardai will be on the road, inside a vehicle - they cant hear whats happening at footpath level, and they cant particular see it either.

If they were on a bike, they would be able to talk to people as they go, they would have a much clearer view of whats happening.

And they might even get around quicker, without having to resort to putting sirens on to beat the traffic jams.

Why is this not a strategy for the gardai.

I know there are a few of them on bikes....but really, its tokenistic, there are so few that there might as well be none.

Another major major plus of having Gardai on bikes - regularly, frequently - is that it will encourage motorists to slow down a bit.

Studies have shown that the only hi vis cyclist wear that causes motorists to slow down is one that says Garda on it.

Just wanted to bring this up, as it seems a no brainer to me.

magicbastarder

would these community support gardai also need to supplement standard garda activities?
i.e. reports of a ongoing break in at the butchers 2km away; if so, you don't necessarily want the gardai to have to react on a bicycle.

also, how many would be in rural areas, and how often might they be needed to carry people or items not suited to a bike?

i agree with you a better mix is required, but without knowing what they're actually used for, it's hard for me to judge what that mix is.

Cee-Jay-Cee

They’re community support vehicles, they collect meals, shopping, prescriptions etc for older and more vulnerable people, they call to those living in remote areas, they also attend regular calls. Bikes are not suitable for many of their duties.

07Lapierre

AFAIK the cars are hired, not purchased.

Wishbone Ash

Tombo2001 wrote: »

.. How much is each vehicle costing? 50k?

As they are state vehicles, they would not be liable for VRT etc. (so nowhere near that price - that's if they were purchased).

It was my understanding that they relieved Hertz of them following the collapse of the car rental market due to Covid-19.

Witcher

These Tucsons have all been purchased, the rented cars have been returned.

Tombo2001

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

They’re community support vehicles, they collect meals, shopping, prescriptions etc for older and more vulnerable people, they call to those living in remote areas, they also attend regular calls. Bikes are not suitable for many of their duties.

Ah come - bikes are absolutely suitable for all of those activites except accessing remote areas.

If Deliveroo required Tucsons for meal delivery....

Anyway, my point is in the opportunity cost.

You say these are community support vehicles - and yet how often do we hear people say that the Gardai are not visibile in every day community. That there arent enough of them on the street.

Its probably the biggest gripe people have with the Gardai.

And a big part of it is that they are stuck inside SUVs whenever they go anywhere.

To put it differently - if the car is superior for all of these every day activities, then why are you guys cycling?

magicbastarder

because i can choose not to cycle when it's blowing a gale and pissing out of the heavens, whereas a garda attending to someone in need won't have that choice? they may need to get to a scene in a hurry, too, etc. etc.

anyway, that's a false dichotomy you're proposed in that question. bikes are great, but that doesn't mean they're great at *everything*.

Montage of Feck

Hyundai i20 would have done the job grand.

Triangle

Tombo2001 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/gardainfo/status/1382350973302145026



Take a look at this video. How much is each vehicle costing? 50k?

How many pedal bikes can you buy for each one?

At least 50.

Or Pedelecs, for those reluctant to pedal themselves?

At least 25.

These SUV vehicles will conduct journeys that are 90% urban, short distance.

The Gardai will be on the road, inside a vehicle - they cant hear whats happening at footpath level, and they cant particular see it either.

If they were on a bike, they would be able to talk to people as they go, they would have a much clearer view of whats happening.

And they might even get around quicker, without having to resort to putting sirens on to beat the traffic jams.

Why is this not a strategy for the gardai.

I know there are a few of them on bikes....but really, its tokenistic, there are so few that there might as well be none.

Another major major plus of having Gardai on bikes - regularly, frequently - is that it will encourage motorists to slow down a bit.

Studies have shown that the only hi vis cyclist wear that causes motorists to slow down is one that says Garda on it.

Just wanted to bring this up, as it seems a no brainer to me.

A country where the entire police force is on bikes..... Absolutely insane.

There's a mix of cars, walking and bikes, it's the best solution. Bikes don't work in every place.

positron

So then, really what they need are... motorbikes!!!

Larbre34

Meh. Bicycles are grand for touring around Grafton Street in pairs, but as soon as they drop the bike to get into something, some scrote is gonna rob it.

Obviously they already use big touring motorcycles for traffic duty, but I think they should also be on lightweight agile scramblers for urban duty.

Effects

Montage of Feck wrote: »

Hyundai i20 would have done the job grand.

Everyone wants to drive a soft-roader these days. Even the police.

punisher5112

Some rentals never will go back.

C3PO

Larbre34 wrote: »

Meh. Bicycles are grand for touring around Grafton Street in pairs, but as soon as they drop the bike to get into something, some scrote is gonna rob it.

Obviously they already use big touring motorcycles for traffic duty, but I think they should also be on lightweight agile scramblers for urban duty.

And they wouldn't be robbed?:D

Effects

Larbre34 wrote: »

Obviously they already use big touring motorcycles for traffic duty, but I think they should also be on lightweight agile scramblers for urban duty.

They have more agile BMW F series bikes as well. I've only seen them a few times though.

Tombo2001

Triangle wrote: »

A country where the entire police force is on bikes..... Absolutely insane.

There's a mix of cars, walking and bikes, it's the best solution. Bikes don't work in every place.

Absolutely.

So if there is a mix, then where are the Gardai on bikes? I rarely see it. I'd say its a year or more since I've seen a Garda on bike.

I never said it was an either / or thing......so I'm not sure where you get your 'absolutely insane' comment from. I never said there shouldnt be police cars.

In the scheme of things though - there are hardly any police on bikes. The investment by the gardai in bikes is miniscule compared to that on cars. Why is that? And if they took just 10% of the car budget, and allocated it to bikes - this surely would result in a much more effective spend.

Of course I know that Bikes dont work for everything.

But why is it that the same logic doesnt apply for cars. Nobody says; but cars cant do X - lets not get cars.

ED E

Tombo2001 wrote: »

So where are the Gardai on bikes?

Give it about a month, once it warms up theyll be out again.

Tombo2001

Tombo2001 wrote: »

ABsolutely.

So where are the Gardai on bikes?

I never said it was an either / or thing.

of course I know that Bikes dont work for everything.

But why is it that the same logic doesnt apply for cars. Nobody says; but cars cant do X - lets not get cars.

Gardai are on bikes in urban areas. Particularly city centre and suburban estates.

We know cars don't do everything, that is why they have motorbikes, bicycles, vans, 4x4 jeeps, high powered cars, bullet proof vehicles.
Bicycles are used where they are most effective, small districts in urban areas usually. Not much point having guard on a bike patrolling half the countryside of Donegal.

Tombo2001

bubblypop wrote: »

Gardai are on bikes in urban areas. Particularly city centre and suburban estates.

We know cars don't do everything, that is why they have motorbikes, bicycles, vans, 4x4 jeeps, high powered cars, bullet proof vehicles.
Bicycles are used where they are most effective, small districts in urban areas usually. Not much point having guard on a bike patrolling half the countryside of Donegal.

But this is my point - they arent on bikes in urban areas. I dont see them. Never.

And yes, I understand that a garda cant get around half the countryside in Donegal.

But the numbers tell me that 2 million people live in Greater Dublin city and whereas only 50000 people live in rural Donegal.

I would have hoped it was obvious that I was talking about urban areas, that represent at a guess three quarters or more of the population.

My other point - is that yes you need specialist equipment - but that specialist equipment is then used for everything. Why does a Garda need to be in a high powered SUV to patrol a suburban estate? Which is your routine Garda Patrol. Bikes would be far superior for this.

Ah ok.
I don't know whereabouts you live but I see them regularly in the city centre.
I used to work out on the Southside, saw plenty there.
Where I live now? Not so much but I know they patrol a different part of the district to where I live.
So, probably depends where you live work really

Also, fyi, gardai need to have done a course before they are allowed to ride the bikes, not much training done the last year or so. In anything.

Tombo2001

bubblypop wrote: »

Ah ok.
I don't know whereabouts you live but I see them regularly in the city centre.
I used to work out on the Southside, saw plenty there.
Where I live now? Not so much but I know they patrol a different part of the district to where I live.
So, probably depends where you live work really

Also, fyi, gardai need to have done a course before they are allowed to ride the bikes, not much training done the last year or so. In anything.

Could simply be that - that the local station doesnt do it.

As you say - I wouldnt have much clue whats happening in other parts of the city, what with travel restrictions.

I like the dancing horses best.

We should have more Gardai on dancing horses.

Tombo2001

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Could simply be that - that the local station doesnt do it.

As you say - I wouldnt have much clue whats happening in other parts of the city, what with travel restrictions.

Could be that the local station doesn't even have anyone trained!
I do agree, the bikes are great for somethings

Wishbone Ash

Tombo2001 wrote: »

.. Why does a Garda need to be in a high powered SUV to patrol a suburban estate?...

1.6 or 2.0 litre - hardly 'high powered'. Probably the bog standard base models.

EB_2013

Hyundai Tucson ix35 Comfort OGP 5DR, 2021
Body: 5 Door Mpv Engine CC: 1598 Fuel: Diesel Colour: White

Seeing as the video appears more to be an advert for Hyundai I'm sure they got a good deal.

Larbre34

C3PO wrote: »

And they wouldn't be robbed?:D

On motorcycles you can fit isolation switches, locking wheels etc, which would make them very difficult to steal opportunistically.

Carrying off a 200+ kg scrambler as a dead weight without transport and a bit of planning is far less likely than with a bicycle.

Cee-Jay-Cee

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Ah come - bikes are absolutely suitable for all of those activites except accessing remote areas.

If Deliveroo required Tucsons for meal delivery....

Anyway, my point is in the opportunity cost.

You say these are community support vehicles - and yet how often do we hear people say that the Gardai are not visibile in every day community. That there arent enough of them on the street.

Its probably the biggest gripe people have with the Gardai.

And a big part of it is that they are stuck inside SUVs whenever they go anywhere.

To put it differently - if the car is superior for all of these every day activities, then why are you guys cycling?

You haven’t taken into account that there exists towns and villages outside of Dublin where bikes are useless. Do you expect a Garda on a bike to collect ten meals and cycle god knows how many miles to deliver them?

Get real, you made a suggestion, a bad one with no foresight or insight into the job they do.

You’d probably be the first one complaining about the delay waiting on a Garda to call to you in a time of need because if you had your way that Garda would be 5km away on a bike delivering a meal to biddy who turned 90 yesterday and lives on her own.

Bikes are not suitable for policing needs in this country.

sy_flembeck

Before I retired I spent many years on a Garda MTB. In fact, it was doing that course that got me back on my own bike. I loved it and it was very popular with my colleagues, as in it was a desirable course to get and a desirable duty to perform.

The bikes generally aren't left idle because nobody wants to use the but as others have said here, with the best will in the world bikes are neither appropriate for adequate for every policing duty.

It's really as simple as that.

bbuzz

I saw a guard up at the featherbeds viewing point on a MTB in March - fair play to him for getting up there on that.

Have to agree though with a lot of replies, there are times and places for bikes and cars - was the 40 minutes or so it took the guard to cycle up to the Featherbeds value for money? Probably not ...

CramCycle

bbuzz wrote: »

I saw a guard up at the featherbeds viewing point on a MTB in March - fair play to him for getting up there on that.

Have to agree though with a lot of replies, there are times and places for bikes and cars - was the 40 minutes or so it took the guard to cycle up to the Featherbeds value for money? Probably not ...

Depends on whether they value the ability to get PBs on Strava while working.

Personally, I think Gardai on rollerskates was a craze from 80s movies that was never given proper chance to develop :pac:

In reality though, they do use bikes but there are limited settings they are useful for, dense urban areas, basically walking the beat but covering a far wider area with a quicker response time locally but outside of that, they are limited. Scramblers were probably looked at but while they could achieve a lot, I imagine the risk/reward ratio was not seen as favourable. Cars/Jeeps in urban areas aren't great but it also stops what the scramblers don't and that is chasing someone who for safety reasons you would be better off letting go as you are more likely to cause an accident than prevent one.

Tombo2001

sy_flembeck wrote: »

Before I retired I spent many years on a Garda MTB. In fact, it was doing that course that got me back on my own bike. I loved it and it was very popular with my colleagues, as in it was a desirable course to get and a desirable duty to perform.

The bikes generally aren't left idle because nobody wants to use the but as others have said here, with the best will in the world bikes are neither appropriate for adequate for every policing duty.

It's really as simple as that.

I can only talk about what I see - a police car drives through our estate once a fortnight or so, on routine checks.

Never by foot, never on bike. Always by car.

I just see it as a massive opportunity lost, to say hello to people, to integrate.

Doing this type of routine work by car just creates a sense of separateness.


Another thing - when the Gardai are doing a routine call, a police car rocking up outside someones house, the police getting out of the car & walking up to the door.... it attracts a lot of attention - whats going on here, look the police are at so and so's.

A few times we've had break-ins, and the gardai call around afterwards - I'm not saying its a big deal, but a bike would be far more discreet than having the squad car outside the house.

A related issue for me is that they are coming from a station that would be a ten minute cycle away - a journey that I would never ever consider doing by car myself, because apart from anything else the bike gets you there quicker.

Just to reiterate:
- I am not saying they are suitable for every policing duty. What I am saying is that there are a lot of instances where they are superior to the car, for several reasons, and yet not being used.
- In case I havent said enough times already, no i dont mean rural areas.

MojoMaker

If it wasn't already mentioned, it does appear that Gardai on bicycles are just not taken seriously.

columbus_66

I saw 3 Garda on bikes in Lucan at lunchtime, they must have be looking at this forum!

magicbastarder

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I can only talk about what I see - a police car drives through our estate once a fortnight or so, on routine checks.

Never by foot, never on bike. Always by car.

yep, that's probably a scenario where a garda on a bike makes sense.

beggars_bush

07Lapierre wrote: »

AFAIK the cars are hired, not purchased.

Leased

0lddog

@OP, try asking on the 'Emergency Services' forum ? ( https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1023 )

sy_flembeck

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I can only talk about what I see - a police car drives through our estate once a fortnight or so, on routine checks.

Never by foot, never on bike. Always by car.

I just see it as a massive opportunity lost, to say hello to people, to integrate.

Doing this type of routine work by car just creates a sense of separateness.


Another thing - when the Gardai are doing a routine call, a police car rocking up outside someones house, the police getting out of the car & walking up to the door.... it attracts a lot of attention - whats going on here, look the police are at so and so's.

A few times we've had break-ins, and the gardai call around afterwards - I'm not saying its a big deal, but a bike would be far more discreet than having the squad car outside the house.

A related issue for me is that they are coming from a station that would be a ten minute cycle away - a journey that I would never ever consider doing by car myself, because apart from anything else the bike gets you there quicker.

Just to reiterate:
- I am not saying they are suitable for every policing duty. What I am saying is that there are a lot of instances where they are superior to the car, for several reasons, and yet not being used.
- In case I havent said enough times already, no i dont mean rural areas.

All valid points. Don't get me wrong, I'm not dismissing or trying to disprove the legitimate question you asked, I am merely answering it as best as I can (from memory at this stage!)

AndrewJRenko

AGS already have a decent fleet of bikes and spend a fair old whack on gear for cyclists too.

I've seen them in the city centre and at large crowd events. It must be 10 years or more since I've seen them around the burbs.

Every city station should have one cycling officer out on every daytime shift. As well as the community benefits, it would improve Garda perspectives and understanding of the challenges of safe cycling.

Ability to ride should be a mandatory criteria for recruitment campaigns.

fixXxer

It might not be bikes thats the problem but the guards themselves.

punisher5112

They're way too busy at the motorway checkpoints again, causing huge stress and traffic for those working trying to get home after a long days work.

cletus

punisher5112 wrote: »

They're way too busy at the motorway checkpoints again, causing huge stress and traffic for those working trying to get home after a long days work.

In fairness, it's not like that gardai at those checkpoints either chose to be there, or decided themselves to set them up.

They're just out doing a job

Eamonnator

fixXxer wrote: »

It might not be bikes thats the problem but the guards themselves.

They should have deployed stinger

cletus

Eamonnator wrote: »

They should have deployed stinger

It's a ****e situation to be in for that Garda. I've had similar situations, insofar as your dealing with a kid like that, and they don't care about the punishments you can hand out, and they know that you can't give them a punishment that they might care about.

Basically it boils down to them saying "**** you, now what are you going to do about it"

Eamonnator

cletus wrote: »

It's a ****e situation to be in for that Garda. I've had similar situations, insofar as your dealing with a kid like that, and they don't care about the punishments you can hand out, and they know that you can't give them a punishment that they might care about.

Basically it boils down to them saying "**** you, now what are you going to do about it"

I know, he was on a loser, no matter what he did, however, I fail to see how the Garda was the problem.

cletus

Eamonnator wrote: »

I know, he was on a loser, no matter what he did, however, I fail to see how the Garda was the problem.

Probably for the same reason that they're out deliberately holding up poor folks who just want to go home...

breezy1985

cletus wrote: »

Probably for the same reason that they're out deliberately holding up poor folks who just want to go home...

What are the motorway checkpoints checking for ?

CramCycle

Eamonnator wrote: »

They should have deployed stinger

breezy1985 wrote: »

What are the motorway checkpoints checking for ?

I live near the one that is near the end of the M50 (southside). Seems to be tax/insurance/NCT plus a general roadside chat all under the Covid Regs. Weird it was reinstalled again this week, but the Gardai were only stopping one in 100. Better putting an ANPR camera over each lane and just fining people for tax/NCT/Insurance fails but it did stop people bombing through that merge section before Bray at 160kmph

Odyssey 2005

punisher5112 wrote: »

Some rentals never will go back.

I'm pretty sure they bought them all

cletus

breezy1985 wrote: »

What are the motorway checkpoints checking for ?

I've absolutely no idea. I still stand by my earlier comment

punisher5112

breezy1985 wrote: »

What are the motorway checkpoints checking for ?

Your journey, where from and to....