KBC exiting Ireland

Wanderer78

namloc1980 wrote: »

As long as the legal landscape means repossessions take forever to happen and politicians talk about protecting the vulnerable, then it doesn't matter if you have a super credit union or a public bank, nothing will change in the market.

both issues need to be resolved, our dysfunctional housing market is feeding into our dysfunctional banking sector, and vice versa

65535

namloc1980 wrote: »

As long as the legal landscape means repossessions take forever to happen and politicians talk about protecting the vulnerable, then it doesn't matter if you have a super credit union or a public bank, nothing will change in the market.

If the banks had their way you would be evicted for not paying one payment, we have historic reasons to rail against these kind of actions.

ednwireland

https://www.donegallive.ie/news/news/625340/kbc-exit-a-blow-to-irish-banking-sector-that-requires-explanation-and-action-pearse-doherty-td.html

is just me or does The SF statement saying that non-performing loans are excluded from the MoU is a problem not highlight a lot of the things wrong with the current political thought ?

Nermal

Akesh wrote: »

The writing has been on the wall for a long time. The government has been warned about this for years but as usual nothing is done.

Pascal's quote this morning was disgraceful:

Nothing to do with government policy allow mortgage holders to not pay but keep their house for years. Well done Pascal.

Disgraceful, but the motivation is obvious. Less competition increases shareholder value in the banks in which Paschal still has a stake.

timmyntc

65535 wrote: »

If the banks had their way you would be evicted for not paying one payment, we have historic reasons to rail against these kind of actions.

Currently the mob have their way, and its impossible to repossess houses when people fail to pay.

If the banks had their way, you would be evicted for failure to pay your mortgage and a failure to engage with the bank to agree a repayment plan.

Banks are not going to start mass repossessions because you paid your mortgage 1 day late ffs.

namloc1980

65535 wrote: »

If the banks had their way you would be evicted for not paying one payment, we have historic reasons to rail against these kind of actions.

There are thousands of mortgages that are more than 10 years in arrears and people are still sitting in those houses.

Nobody is saying you should get turfed out after missing one payment - saying otherwise is just being very silly. But you simply can't have people 10 years in arrears with no consequences and expect the market to function well. It's incompatible.

feargantae

feargantae wrote: »

It's a 12 month contract. Same with Revolut and their premium banking offers.

Revolut isn’t a 12 month contract for any of their premium accounts. Or at least it wasn’t. I have a metal card, and only had a metal account for 2 or 3 months.

hold my beer

Nermal wrote: »

Disgraceful, but the motivation is obvious. Less competition increases shareholder value in the banks in which Paschal still has a stake.

You mean the people of Ireland have a stake in.

Bob24

Wanderer78 wrote: »

both issues need to be resolved, our dysfunctional housing market is feeding into our dysfunctional banking sector, and vice versa

Fully agreed but I am not holding my breath.

Especially with Covid which will be used an an excuse to kick the can down the road for all issues related to unsustainable debt (both public and private).

It won’t matter that those issues had been ongoing for years, they’ll say it is all because of Covid and therefore monetary policies will be used to pretend there is no issue at the cost of the overall society/economy taking the burden for bad actors.

Kewreeuss

On Clair Byrne just now some guy said not to worry much just yet because years will pass before anything happens.

Dublinandy3

I don't want to derail this thread but I always see people can't get repossessed if they don't pay their mortgage, is that actually true and that black and white. Could someone link me anything to explain, I know nothing on the subject, would be interesting to see. Seems odd (as a foreigner living in ireland for several years)

sebdavis

People complain about high mortgage rates. The reason for these is you are paying for the people who are not paying their mortgage.

So as well as paying tax which is handed to social welfare etc, then we pay a high mortgage just for people to sit not paying as well.

What does the government do? nothing. What does the opposition do? well they want more free stuff to social welfare and higher rates to pay for more people to not pay mortgages. It is a disaster

mcsean2163

KBC leaving because the housing market is broken.

In 2017 nonperforming arrears over 2 years was 5% in the major banks. That's a lot. Unpopular but something probably needs to be done.

Government could go in, buy the subprime, repossess the houses but leave the families in them so they become social housing.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/arizona-firm-to-buy-irish-subprime-loans-at-75-discount-1.4536367?mode=amp

75% discount....

Geuze

Dublinandy3 wrote: »

I don't want to derail this thread but I always see people can't get repossessed if they don't pay their mortgage, is that actually true and that black and white. Could someone link me anything to explain, I know nothing on the subject, would be interesting to see. Seems odd (as a foreigner living in ireland for several years)

Repossessions can happen, but the process is very slow.

If a borrower in arrears engages with their bank, there is a low chance of repossession.

65535

Dublinandy3 wrote: »

I don't want to derail this thread but I always see people can't get repossessed if they don't pay their mortgage, is that actually true and that black and white. Could someone link me anything to explain, I know nothing on the subject, would be interesting to see. Seems odd (as a foreigner living in ireland for several years)

Maybe you've heard of the way the landlord class evicted thousands in Ireland in the past ?

HalfAndHalf

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Revolut isn’t a 12 month contract for any of their premium accounts. Or at least it wasn’t. I have a metal card, and only had a metal account for 2 or 3 months.

Sorry to say it is, you’re locked in to 12 monthly payments (or could have paid for the year upfront for a small discount). If you were to downgrade or close your account before the end of the 12 month period you’ll be liable for the remaining payments.

Edit - tell a lie, it’s:

If you are on the Monthly plan, you have the option for early termination any time within the first 10 months for a break fee of €6 on Plus, €16 on Revolut Premium or €28 on Revolut Metal. If you cancel in Month 11, as you are inside the 1-month notice period you will receive your subscription for the remainder of your 12-month Monthly plan. Your subscription will not be auto-renewed for the next year.

Busi_Girl08

Busi_Girl08 wrote: »

I have an AIP with KBC, in the last week or so they very quickly shut up shop on LTI exceptions and according to our broker will be launching a new underwriting calculator from Monday making it nearly impossible for anyone to get a decent mortgage. This explains why.

Exact same happened to us. Just about squeezed in with the exception loan offer. Praying it all goes through.

sebdavis

Dublinandy3 wrote: »

I don't want to derail this thread but I always see people can't get repossessed if they don't pay their mortgage, is that actually true and that black and white. Could someone link me anything to explain, I know nothing on the subject, would be interesting to see. Seems odd (as a foreigner living in ireland for several years)

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/life-with-mortgage-arrears-in-ireland-i-had-seizures-from-stress-1.3777654#:~:text=In%20a%202017%20report%20by,in%20Northern%20Ireland%20and%20Denmark.

In a 2017 report by Competition and Consumer Protection Commission, one lender said that it takes between 18 and 72 months to repossess a home in Ireland, compared with nine-12 months in the UK, and six months in Northern Ireland and Denmark.

It seems to be a mix of stupid laws. plus the bank can't take the house without a day in court for the "victim". This of course can be delayed for years by not showing up etc.

Some of the laws mentioned here
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/losing_your_home/home_repossession.html
Seems to be a mess

sebdavis

65535 wrote: »

Maybe you've heard of the way the landlord class evicted thousands in Ireland in the past ?

Not relevant anymore and no idea why it should be mentioned in a thread about mortgages

Bob24

Dublinandy3 wrote: »

I don't want to derail this thread but I always see people can't get repossessed if they don't pay their mortgage, is that actually true and that black and white. Could someone link me anything to explain, I know nothing on the subject, would be interesting to see. Seems odd (as a foreigner living in ireland for several years)

See here a fairly good report on this topic with relevant figures from a trusted source if you want to judge by yourself: https://www.centralbank.ie/docs/default-source/statistics/data-and-analysis/credit-and-banking-statistics/mortgage-arrears/residential-mortgage-arrears-and-repossession-statistics-december-2020.pdf?sfvrsn=4

It is not technically correct to say repossessions are *impossible*, but if you look at the large number of accounts in long term arrears from my link and compare it to the quarterly number of properties being repossessed (also in the document), I think it makes it obvious that it is very, very hard and expensive for a bank to repossess. And at the current (and tiny) rate of repossessions there is no way the backlog of non-performing loans can ever be cleared.

They also have figures on how long ongoing repossessions request have been in the legal system, and as you can see many of them have been in there for over 5 years (keeping in mind that the banks probably spent quite a bit of time trying to get paid themselves before resorting to legal actions). For those mortgages not only the bank is not getting paid, but they have ongoing associated legal costs - so at some point it doesn’t make financial sense to keep going anymore.

cruizer101

65535 wrote: »

If the banks had their way you would be evicted for not paying one payment, we have historic reasons to rail against these kind of actions.

No one here is saying it should be that extreme, but at the other end of the scale you have people not making any repayments and having no consequences.

The line needs to be drawn somewhere in the middle to reach a balance where banks can repossess but people aren't kicked out on the street for minor issues.

Something along the lines of if someone is paying less than interest only for an extended period the bank can repossess.

TempAc

Dublinandy3 wrote: »

I don't want to derail this thread but I always see people can't get repossessed if they don't pay their mortgage, is that actually true and that black and white. Could someone link me anything to explain, I know nothing on the subject, would be interesting to see. Seems odd (as a foreigner living in ireland for several years)

Yeah it's true, data is published regularly on the central bank website. The data actually only covers mortgages held by entities with an retail credit or credit servicing licence though.

To give you some indications of the problems, there's over 5,000 cases currently in legal, 2,000 of those have been in the legal system for over 5 years, in q4 2020 only 29 properties were reposessed.

Then there's the over 11,000 mortgage holders in arrears who aren't engaging or cooperating.

So you can imagine the costs of all the legal proceedings required, the fees attached, and how the cost gets passed on to paying mortgage holders. This is why we can't have nice things like sub 2% mortgage interest rates.

jmayo

65535 wrote: »

If the banks had their way you would be evicted for not paying one payment, we have historic reasons to rail against these kind of actions.

Ah complete bullshyte.
A bank is not going to initiate proceeding on one or even two missed payments.
Do you think someone should remain in a property they haven't paid a penny towards in years ?
Yes years.

65535 wrote: »

Maybe you've heard of the way the landlord class evicted thousands in Ireland in the past ?

It is because of people like you that has helped create the situation were those paying mortgages, and those trying to get new mortgages, are going to be paying through the nose because of the exit of foreign owned banks who have had enough.

Less banks means less competition and less options for consumers no matter what the useless gimp Donoghue tries to pedal on radio this morning.

We really do need a new fiscal conservative party in this country, one that actually starts to care about those of us who pay our way.

65535

65535 wrote: »

If the banks had their way you would be evicted for not paying one payment, we have historic reasons to rail against these kind of actions.

How about a healthy medium?

sebdavis

65535 wrote: »

If the banks had their way you would be evicted for not paying one payment, we have historic reasons to rail against these kind of actions.

Banks are a business. They want to make money. This is 100% not the case and any Bank who would consider this would be gone very very very quickly.

The Banks should have the ability to take over a house if the person is clearly not paying and has no intention of paying the mortgage. At the moment this process drags out for years and the bank is not going to take the hit. So they add more interest to everyone else to cover for the bad people.

Henry Ford III

Behave folks. No more bickering or backbiting. Stay on topic too.

Gael23

Does this mean anything for deposits?

JTMan

Gael23 wrote: »

Does this mean anything for deposits?

KBC said that BoI would purchase "liabilities". Deposits are liabilities at the bank level.

That said, KBC did not clearly call out deposits and BoI do not need more deposits. The opposite in fact.

I would guess that deposits will be returned but it is not clear.

Arthur Daley

jmayo wrote: »

We really do need a new fiscal conservative party in this country, one that actually starts to care about those of us who pay our way.

A fiscal conservative party will be a start. Don't think there is much evidence that Ireland has ever had one before. Maybe the PDs under Michael McDowell. Maybe.

Dublinandy3

Thanks All