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Mandatory import VAT from 1 July 2021

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  • Posts: 596 [Deleted User]


    Yes, this is known. Anything under £25 or whatever it is will no longer be VAT free from the likes of Amazon


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,460 ✭✭✭vandriver


    Thoughts...AliExpress and Wish are fecked.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,730 ✭✭✭masterboy123


    I am gonna order all my stuff now. This is going to be a big kick.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭silver2020


    vandriver wrote: »
    Thoughts...AliExpress and Wish are fecked.

    combined with more realistic postal charges it really is the end of cheap tat from china


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭rock22


    Some items on Aliexpress are available from Eu countries, usually Spain or Czechia. i imagine more and more sellers will set up distributions centres in EU to remain competitive


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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,863 Mod ✭✭✭✭whiterebel


    The big exporters from Asia can set up to pay their VAT in the EU. It's probably the previously mentioned hike in postage that will do them more damage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭Sparkling Gamorreans


    I ordered a few cheap knock off collectible figures on Aliexpress which cost between €10-€20 individually with postage included (sent separately). I understand the exporters are putting a value of approximately $10 on the packages (didn't instruct them to do so, I checked after the fact). Stupidly I had completely forgotten about the 1 July 2021 removal of the €22 exemption. Does anyone know the appetite and viability as regards to An Post enforcing this from the get go? I am wondering if I can expect to be hit with 4 or 5 flat fees. Also wondering if they'll challenge the values.

    On a separate note, does anyone know if Aliexpress intend to collect VAT for EU destination purchases from 1 July onwards? Would this be across the whole market place or on a seller by seller basis if they choose to comply? I can't find anything about their intentions online.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,054 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    Most items on AliExpress now offer delivery from within the EU to get around this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,463 ✭✭✭Masala


    Is the 1st July an Irish thing or is it coming from the EU???

    Feck it... it’s a small concession to us little people who like a bargain and who love waiting for ‘that package ‘ in the post.

    I reckon An Post will see a major fall in business after the last year they put in.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,054 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    EU, was supposed to come in on January 1st but got pushed back 6 months


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,624 ✭✭✭iba


    I ordered a few cheap knock off collectible figures on Aliexpress which cost between €10-€20 individually with postage included (sent separately). I understand the exporters are putting a value of approximately $10 on the packages (didn't instruct them to do so, I checked after the fact). Stupidly I had completely forgotten about the 1 July 2021 removal of the €22 exemption. Does anyone know the appetite and viability as regards to An Post enforcing this from the get go? I am wondering if I can expect to be hit with 4 or 5 flat fees. Also wondering if they'll challenge the values.

    On a separate note, does anyone know if Aliexpress intend to collect VAT for EU destination purchases from 1 July onwards? Would this be across the whole market place or on a seller by seller basis if they choose to comply? I can't find anything about their intentions online.

    Only a guess but my guess is that you will have to show the invoice rather than the value printed on the envelope.

    Its a whole of EU thing. I'm hoping that Ali will just collect the VAT. When you buy something on Ali, I believe Ali holds the money until you confirm the order. Once you confirm the order, the money is then released by Ali to the individual seller


  • Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭Sparkling Gamorreans


    Has anyone heard what An Post's appetite is to enforce the change come Thursday?


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,532 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Has anyone heard what An Post's appetite is to enforce the change come Thursday?

    From their own website
    From 1 July 2021: VAT & Customs Duties will be calculated/charged on all non-EU items (previously only items containing goods above €22) It is mandatory for An Post to collect these charges on behalf of Revenue. An Post is unable to deliver your item until this charge has been paid.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,470 ✭✭✭NinjaTruncs


    According to this page AliExpress will be collecting VAT which will be a good thing as we won't get hit with collection fees from An Post.

    https://service.aliexpress.com/page/knowledge?pageId=37&category=1000021915&knowledge=1060863305&language=en

    4.3kWp South facing PV System. South Dublin



  • Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭Sparkling Gamorreans


    Jim_Hodge wrote: »
    From their own website

    Thanks for providing the information. I know officially they are saying they will collect the VAT, I am wondering to what extent they will enforce this? Would they seek to collect VAT less than €1? Will they hold genuine gifts of even the smallest trinkets until VAT and flat fee are paid? It's an interesting development. In theory it removes any common sense discretion to weigh up a cost/benefit analysis of any given situation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 81,705 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    According to this page AliExpress will be collecting VAT which will be a good thing as we won't get hit with collection fees from An Post.

    https://service.aliexpress.com/page/knowledge?pageId=37&category=1000021915&knowledge=1060863305&language=en


    Yes it's the collection fee's rather than the fee's themselves that will be the major cost, hopefully more adapt the AliExpress approach.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭Darc19


    Masala wrote: »
    Is the 1st July an Irish thing or is it coming from the EU???

    Feck it... it’s a small concession to us little people who like a bargain and who love waiting for ‘that package ‘ in the post.

    I reckon An Post will see a major fall in business after the last year they put in.

    Almost all of the Chinese rubbish from wish / Ali express etc are loss making for an post.

    They will be extremely happy with this.

    Their biggest customer, Amazon, pay all vat and duty and deliver all parcels to anpost so they are in effect domestic parcels.

    And in any case, most of their business originates in Ireland


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,532 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Thanks for providing the information. I know officially they are saying they will collect the VAT, I am wondering to what extent they will enforce this? Would they seek to collect VAT less than €1? Will they hold genuine gifts of even the smallest trinkets until VAT and flat fee are paid? It's an interesting development. In theory it removes any common sense discretion to weigh up a cost/benefit analysis of any given situation.

    They'll also charge their collection cost regardless of the VAT amount. They're obliged to collect the tax and won't take the hit for it themselves. They'll make more with collection fees than they'd ever make just delivering cheap Chinese packages up to now, as they lost on them up to now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,624 ✭✭✭iba


    According to this page AliExpress will be collecting VAT which will be a good thing as we won't get hit with collection fees from An Post.

    https://service.aliexpress.com/page/knowledge?pageId=37&category=1000021915&knowledge=1060863305&language=en

    Well found. I thought this would be the case cause its the only way it could be done. And Ali is such a multi-billion company, its not mush hassle for them to upgrade their IT systems.

    On the plus side, this will eradicate the €10 An Post delivery fee


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,624 ✭✭✭iba


    Darc19 wrote: »
    Almost all of the Chinese rubbish from wish / Ali express etc are loss making for an post.

    They will be extremely happy with this.

    Their biggest customer, Amazon, pay all vat and duty and deliver all parcels to anpost so they are in effect domestic parcels.

    And in any case, most of their business originates in Ireland

    There are plenty of items for sale on Ali that are not rubbish; plenty of IT stuff, tech stuff eg. android boxes, laptops, HDMI cables, Cat cables, projectors, power banks, cameras. There are good and bad quality for everything. You pay for the quality you want. I've bought hundreds of items from Ali at a fraction of what they would cost here. And I would say only about 1% I've been unhappy with. For example, I recently bought some light fittings. Cost €5 on Ali, the exact same in Woodies sells for €25.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,532 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    iba wrote: »
    There are plenty of items for sale on Ali that are not rubbish; plenty of IT stuff, tech stuff eg. android boxes, laptops, HDMI cables, Cat cables, projectors, power banks, cameras. There are good and bad quality for everything. You pay for the quality you want. I've bought hundreds of items from Ali at a fraction of what they would cost here. And I would say only about 1% I've been unhappy with. For example, I recently bought some light fittings. Cost €5 on Ali, the exact same in Woodies sells for €25.

    That doesn't change the salient point of the post: An Post lose money delivering this Chinese stuff and would be happy to see volumes decrease or to get an admin fee for collecting the duty on them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,624 ✭✭✭iba


    Jim_Hodge wrote: »
    That doesn't change the salient point of the post: An Post lose money delivering this Chinese stuff and would be happy to see volumes decrease or to get an admin fee for collecting the duty on them.

    Totally agree, has no relevance in the thread so shouldn't have been stated in the first place.

    With regards An Post, my understanding is, it will still be delivering the products but will no longer be able to collect €10 for doing so. Perhaps quantities will decrease though (would love to know if amazon.co.uk deliveries to the State has decreased since 01 Jan.).


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,054 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    iba wrote: »
    Perhaps quantities will decrease though (would love to know if amazon.co.uk deliveries to the State has decreased since 01 Jan.).

    I've bought way more from Amazon in the past 6 months than in any full year to date. Mostly stuff under €22. If you've Prime there were plenty of absolute steals


  • Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭Sparkling Gamorreans


    Jim_Hodge wrote: »
    They'll also charge their collection cost regardless of the VAT amount. They're obliged to collect the tax and won't take the hit for it themselves. They'll make more with collection fees than they'd ever make just delivering cheap Chinese packages up to now, as they lost on them up to now.

    I absolutely get this. I'm just asking if anyone is aware either anecdotally or by way of media reporting as to whether An Post in practice intend to pursue this to the fullest extent from 1 July. I rarely order outside the EU but I've heard before they'll sometimes not bother or miss packages with values higher than the threshold.

    That's a good spot by NinjaTruncs. I hadn't been able to find that info definitively anywhere before. There's obviously now an interim period where people have bought things prior to Ali collecting VAT but will land after 30 June. I guess I'll find out if I've been caught in the next month.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,863 Mod ✭✭✭✭whiterebel


    sugarman wrote: »
    An Posts handling fee has already been lowered to €3.50.

    Yes, they lowered it in January


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,624 ✭✭✭iba


    I absolutely get this. I'm just asking if anyone is aware either anecdotally or by way of media reporting as to whether An Post in practice intend to pursue this to the fullest extent from 1 July. I rarely order outside the EU but I've heard before they'll sometimes not bother or miss packages with values higher than the threshold.

    That's a good spot by NinjaTruncs. I hadn't been able to find that info definitively anywhere before. There's obviously now an interim period where people have bought things prior to Ali collecting VAT but will land after 30 June. I guess I'll find out if I've been caught in the next month.

    Not sure I fully understand, but An Post have for years collected VAT on goods imported from outside the EU if the value is over I believe 22 euro (I think a further 5 euro though can be added on to this bringing the value up to 27 euro).

    However lots of packages get through where the item exceeds this price and VAT is not collected. For example, if I buy something from outside the EU and the price is over 27 Euro, I take into consideration that I'd be hit with €10 euro (now €3.50 (I didn't know it had been reduced)) An Post fee plus the VAT. when I'm weighing up options where to buy from. If it gets through and I dont get charged, happy days. But if it gets stopped, I am expecting it and I've factored that into my decision before buying. 99 times out of 100 though, I'd only be buying something for less than 27 Euro though, so no VAT and no An Post fee. The times that I have had packages stopped, Ive had to send An Post by email a pic/copy of the invoice. An Post then write back saying I owe xx in VAT plus the €10 and that it will be collected by it upon delivery. I agree, they come and deliver and I pay the money to the post man.


  • Registered Users Posts: 841 ✭✭✭mondeoman72


    I cannot see this happening. The amount of little small packages coming in, I do not see them doing it. Of course they will say they are, but it is just not possible. We will see.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭VG31


    I cannot see this happening. The amount of little small packages coming in, I do not see them doing it. Of course they will say they are, but it is just not possible. We will see.

    I've had 4 packages over €22 so far this year, 3 from the UK and one from the US. I didn't have to pay VAT on any of them. I'd be very surprised if they start checking every package.


  • Registered Users Posts: 841 ✭✭✭mondeoman72


    VG31 wrote: »
    I've had 4 packages over €22 so far this year, 3 from the UK and one from the US. I didn't have to pay VAT on any of them. I'd be very surprised if they start checking every package.
    I agree. The sheer amount of stuff coming in makes it an impossibility. What they say and what they do may differ considerably.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭Sparkling Gamorreans


    iba wrote: »
    Not sure I fully understand, but An Post have for years collected VAT on goods imported from outside the EU if the value is over I believe 22 euro (I think a further 5 euro though can be added on to this bringing the value up to 27 euro).

    Apologies if I haven't explained clearly enough. I understand how it has been to date and how it is technically supposed to be going forward. I was asking if anyone know the likelihood of this change being effectively implemented by An Post. I'm wondering if An Post are resourced accordingly from a personnel and infrastructural perspective to start holding and charging on a significantly higher volume of packages and if indeed they have the appetite to do so. The posts subsequent to this one speculate not very likely. I suppose we'll find out soon enough.


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