Incident in Tesco today

Hamsterchops

If the security guard asks you to put down your hoodie, then why wouldn't you?

Hamsterchops

Hamsterchops wrote: »

If the security guard asks you to put down your hoodie, then why wouldn't you?

"I know my rights"

The One Doctor

JackTC wrote: »

Earlier today in Tesco a lad came in with his hoody up (Mid-Late 30's, looked harmless).

The security guard asked him to put his hood down and the customer refused and began to shop. The guard continued to follow him around the store asking him to put his hood down and the customer kept refusing.

He only bought a handful of things and left. Should he have taken down the hood or was the security guard out of line?

Were you following them both around the shop?

Badly Drunk Boy

forestgirl wrote: »

The man could have a serious head injury and may be keeping it covered especially with covid around

Then he really shouldn't be out shopping if he has a serious head injury, especially with Covid around. I'd suggest he asks a friend or family member to get him a few bits for him.

greasepalm wrote: »

Early this morning was bitterly cold and is possible he was frozen?

I can see why security guard had an issue as might have been worried ?

Right or wrong as it all happens in a blink of an eye.

If it was mid summer then he would/should not have his hoodie up.

That considerate security man was probably thinking "It's so cold this morning, I think that lad should taken down his hoodie as it'll be no good to him when he goes back outside, especially after walking around this warm supermarket.".

Security guards: the unsung heroes of our times.

Fandymo

dotsman wrote: »

Ideally, the scumbag should have been beaten from the store.

However, this is Ireland, where security guards are the ones who get fcuked over if the poor criminal has their feelings hurt.

What crime was committed??

ebbsy

The security guard should have dowsed him in water and then jabbed him with a cattle prod.

JackTC

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Can't believe this thread is 6 pages long :P
Like, the reason why security guards ask to pull the hood off is because they don't want someone robbing/shoplifting without showing that mug for the cameras.

You can't see the mug of someone wearing a Burka.

It can be hard to make out someone wearing a hat with their mask.

NSAman

Fandymo wrote: »

What crime was committed??

Bad haircut!

ShatterAlan

Deleted User wrote: »

Okay... and..?

Did you read the post I replied to?

ShatterAlan

85603 wrote: »

private business, they should have told him to lose the hood or fck right off.

by rights they shouldn't have served him, but i suppose sometimes it just not worth the hassle.

Why shouldn't they have served him?

ShatterAlan

pgj2015 wrote: »

There is a big difference between assault and escorting someone off the premises. also it would be all on camera if an accusation of assault is ever made.

How can you escort someone who refuses to go anywhere. If you think that physically grabbing them and frog-marching them out is "escorting" I have news for you...that's assault.

pgj2015

ShatterAlan wrote: »

How can you escort someone who refuses to go anywhere. If you think that physically grabbing them and frog-marching them out is "escorting" I have news for you...that's assault.

so every time a bouncer ejects a drunk person from a club/pub,or every time a guard puts someone in the back of a police van or car. you are saying that is assault? you are wrong.

ShatterAlan

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Can't believe this thread is 6 pages long :P
Like, the reason why security guards ask to pull the hood off is because they don't want someone robbing/shoplifting without showing that mug for the cameras. Security guard has to be seen as doing his job too.

So your man refusing to take off his hood is being a t*at. I get it, who wants to be bothered when you're out getting a few pieces in a shop - but security man is gonna justify his job. So either tell him to f-off and go else where or take off the poxy hood. Instead of this passive aggressive "well i am gonna do what i want, my rights, you have no right blah blah" bs

So if someone doesn't like what you're wearing because they think it's "offensive" and demand that you remove it or cover it up, are you going to acquiesce just to keep the peace? Is standing up for yourself against some prick who likes to hassle you is being passive aggressive now.

ShatterAlan

Hamsterchops wrote: »

If the security guard asks you to put down your hoodie, then why wouldn't you?

If he told you to pull down your trousers would you?


People like to create artificial standoffs in order to assert their authority. When you don't bend to their will and submit to their demands that's THEIR problem. They manufactured the situation and the only acceptable way out of it for them is for you to yield.


When you don't yield their ego is crushed and they have to back down and look foolish.


Most people on here are of the opinion that one should just do as they are told because standing up for yourself is "not worth it".

ShatterAlan

pgj2015 wrote: »

so every time a bouncer ejects a drunk person from a club/pub,or every time a guard puts someone in the back of a police van or car. you are saying that is assault? you are wrong.

Poor comparisons. The police have to physically make contact with someone in order to detain them and they need a probable cause such as suspicion or evidence that a crime was committed or is afoot.


Bouncers can eject people from clubs for causing trouble. I'm not sure what the law is with regards to physically removing someone from a nightclub for whatever reason but I'd be pretty surprised if the bouncer has carte-blanche to just punch people up and slam them out the door and onto the pavement.


Telling someone to leave a shop for not talking down their hood would definitely not stand up in court. If they refused to leave and you physically ejected them and your excuse for you action was as you mentioned then that would be very shaky ground to be on going anywhere near a courtroom.

I see sheep

Oranage2 wrote: »

Should ask him to leave then refuse service. Nothing much else they can do.

Why should he be refused service

pgj2015

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Poor comparisons. The police have to physically make contact with someone in order to detain them and they need a probable cause such as suspicion or evidence that a crime was committed or is afoot.


Bouncers can eject people from clubs for causing trouble. I'm not sure what the law is with regards to physically removing someone from a nightclub for whatever reason but I'd be pretty surprised if the bouncer has carte-blanche to just punch people up and slam them out the door and onto the pavement.


Telling someone to leave a shop for not talking down their hood would definitely not stand up in court. If they refused to leave and you physically ejected them and your excuse for you action was as you mentioned then that would be very shaky ground to be on going anywhere near a courtroom.

no one said anything about a bouncer punching people, that is obviously assault but escorting them off the premises isn't assault.

andekwarhola

It's like a lot of things in life.

It's not so much that you think it's such a big deal to do it, or that the establishment isn't being somewhat petty and draconian: more that you just marvel at the energy and commitment required by anybody over the age of 14 to defend their 'rights' in such a scenario to the extent of inconvenience and embarrassment.

ShatterAlan

pgj2015 wrote: »

no one said anything about a bouncer punching people, that is obviously assault but escorting them off the premises isn't assault.

Simply touching someone can be construed as assault.

How do you physically remove someone without putting your hands on them?

timeToLive

JackTC wrote: »

Earlier today in Tesco a lad came in with his hoody up (Mid-Late 30's, looked harmless).

The security guard asked him to put his hood down and the customer refused and began to shop. The guard continued to follow him around the store asking him to put his hood down and the customer kept refusing.

He only bought a handful of things and left. Should he have taken down the hood or was the security guard out of line?

I keep my hat on with a mask on while shopping. Haven't been told to take it down yet...

DodoDojo

pgj2015 wrote: »

2.—(1) A person shall be guilty of the offence of assault who, without lawful excuse, intentionally or recklessly—

(a) directly or indirectly applies force to or causes an impact on the body of another, or

(b) causes another to believe on reasonable grounds that he or she is likely immediately to be subjected to any such force or impact,

without the consent of the other.

(2) In subsection (1) (a), “force” includes—

(a) application of heat, light, electric current, noise or any other form of energy, and

(b) application of matter in solid liquid or gaseous form.

(3) No such offence is committed if the force or impact, not being intended or likely to cause injury, is in the circumstances such as is generally acceptable in the ordinary conduct of daily life and the defendant does not know or believe that it is in fact unacceptable to the other person.


Bouncers throw hundreds of people out of clubs/pubs, chippers etc every week in Ireland pre covid and I haven't come across many cases of assault against too many bouncers, im sure some of them deserve to be in court as well for assaults on customers of these premises.

Some bouncers do assault people unlawfully and abuse their power, but they usually get away with it for 2 reasons.
1) Lack of proof. The bar will only turn over CCV footage when it is to their benefit, if one of the bouncers was in the wrong, they conveniently lose the footage. If you were to report something, most likely your only proof would be your word against theirs.

2) Anytime there is alcohol involved, the sober person who is working will usually be given benefit of the doubt which makes sense in a lot of cases but not always.

Security guards in shops can get into more trouble because somewhere like Tesco would need to hand over CCTV, as unlike a small bar, the Gardai know they have it. The person who is assaulted is most likely sober too and there would be more reliable witnesses since alcohol isn't involved. Plus in general, complaints in a shop are taken a lot more seriously than in a bar.

DodoDojo

pgj2015 wrote: »

so every time a bouncer ejects a drunk person from a club/pub,or every time a guard puts someone in the back of a police van or car. you are saying that is assault? you are wrong.

Bouncers have the same rights as anyone else. Their job is to protect the staff, customers and premises.
They should only touch people in self defence situations either to save themselves or someone else.

air assault

JackTC wrote: »

Fairly mixed responses so far - Wish I had put in a poll

There is no sign that says no hoodies anywhere around the place so I'm not sure if the guard was in the right.

I worked in security in a Tesco store for about six years. There was no policy. Security officer has no right to ask you to put your hood down. Security officers have no authority, only powers of arrest is citizens arrest like everyone else. Retail security is a defamation minefield.

Graces7

air assault wrote: »

I worked in security in a Tesco store for about six years. There was no policy. Security officer has no right to ask you to put your hood down. Security officers have no authority, only powers of arrest is citiz ens arrest like everyone else. Retail security is a defamation minefield.

It is a Tesco policy. Their premises. Same as banks denying entry to bikers unless they take their helmets off. This was covered earlier in this thread.

air assault

Graces7 wrote: »

It is a Tesco policy. Their premises. Same as banks denying entry to bikers unless they take their helmets off. This was covered earlier in this thread.

Like i said i worked there.... worked as in no longer. Most certainly wasn't a policy when i was there, or if it was i was never made aware of it.

Mimon

Are you this guy OP?

Story is similarly as exciting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgX-Gugc69I

pauliebdub

Security guard is out of line, there's no legal obligation for anyone to dress a particular way going to a shop. Some of these security personnel appear to be very poorly trained

B.A._Baracus

JackTC wrote: »

You can't see the mug of someone wearing a Burka.

It can be hard to make out someone wearing a hat with their mask.

That's the thing :P
Joeblow security guard would have no problem telling some white (etc) person to take off that hood. but wouldn't dare tell some Muslim to take off the burka. He'd be right to not ask as well. You know yourself.

ShatterAlan wrote: »

So if someone doesn't like what you're wearing because they think it's "offensive"...

Offensive? I never said offensive. Sure you're not confusing me with someone else?

ShatterAlan wrote: »

.... and demand that you remove it or cover it up, are you going to acquiesce just to keep the peace? Is standing up for yourself against some prick who likes to hassle you is being passive aggressive now.

Look, I worked in retail and I can give you dozens of examples of when people weren't budging (on a variety of matters) - Some got their way and some didn't. Those who didn't always left the store with a sour face (like clockwork, everyone who doesn't get suited does that)

Read the room. Read the situation. If you make a big stink / scene about something it does not automatically mean you will win or be suited. Weigh things up. We are talking about taking off a hood dude. A poxy hood.
As I said in the post you quoted, should someone get annoyed then say f-off to the security guard and go else where.

GreeBo

dotsman wrote: »

Ideally, the scumbag should have been beaten from the store.

However, this is Ireland, where security guards are the ones who get fcuked over if the poor criminal has their feelings hurt.

When did he become a scumbag?

Allinall

pauliebdub wrote: »

Security guard is out of line, there's no legal obligation for anyone to dress a particular way going to a shop. Some of these security personnel appear to be very poorly trained

There's also no legal obligation on Tesco's to let anyone in to their shop wearing a hoodie.