Angus X Cows - Which Bull?

COYBIG14

Hello folks,

Looking to see which bull would be best to put with dairy based Angus X cows. We are in beef production ourselves so these calf’s would be for beef.

Thanks!

Gudstock

COYBIG14 wrote: »

Hello folks,

Looking to see which bull would be best to put with dairy based Angus X cows. We are in beef production ourselves so these calf’s would be for beef.

Thanks!

What is your market for the calves? Weanling sales, sell as stores or finish yourself?

COYBIG14

Gudstock wrote: »

What is your market for the calves? Weanling sales, sell as stores or finish yourself?

Our market would be weanling sales

kollegeknight

First time calvers?

Easy calving limo for me. AA bull or the likes makes feck all in the mart. But might be dependant on where you are in the country.

COYBIG14

kollegeknight wrote: »

First time calvers?

Easy calving limo for me. AA bull or the likes makes feck all in the mart. But might be dependant on where you are in the country.

Nope wouldn’t be first time calvers. 3 or 4 cycles done. Cheers for that.

kollegeknight

COYBIG14 wrote: »

Nope wouldn’t be first time calvers. 3 or 4 cycles done. Cheers for that.

Depends on colour and how hard calving-how much time you have around them. Hard to beat Charolais for price but calving difficulty may come into it.

I have lmx cows of varying colours and have a pb easy calving bull. The new ropes I bought for the year are still in the packet with one cow left to calf(granted I’m only calving 9 this year). Calves are hardy and do ok at sale time.
Lately I’ve found cows coming back in heat quicker.

Gudstock

Limousin bull.
Difficult to get an attractive coloured calf off of a lot of breeds off of an AA cow, colour along with quality of course, but colour is critical in trying to achieve a good price for good marketable weanlings that buyers want and like to see.
With the limo and AA cow you are likely getting mainly black calves but a few reds and they will likely have 1 copy of the F94L myostatin (muscle) gene from the limo. You need to add some muscle to dairy bred suckler cows. You need to make your black coloured calves stand out from AA bucket fed calves at weanling sales. Some limo bulls have heavier muscle myostatin genes, but tend to be harder calved. A bull like lodge hamlet carries 1 copy of f94l and 1 copy of nt831 genes and is not too hard calved, the limo bulls that carry the nt and Q myostatin defo produce better calves but you gotta be careful on the calving.
If they are maiden heifers, go guaranteed easy calving, maybe a Saler, for the first year.

Limestone Cowboy

Charolais all the way for me.

Hard Knocks

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

Charolais all the way for me.

The mouse grey colour is hard to sell as weanlings

Limestone Cowboy

Hard Knocks wrote: »

The mouse grey colour is hard to sell as weanlings

Most of them come that light silvery grey. I'd rather have them than a plain black lim if I was trying to sell them.

Limestone Cowboy

https://youtu.be/LFgOD02kVAA

Albert Johnson

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

Most of them come that light silvery grey. I'd rather have them than a plain black lim if I was trying to sell them.

+1 on the above. The grey CHx is still CH bred and should make a good store and subsequent finished animal. You'll not get as much as his white or golden counterparts off coloured cows but he'll still be ahead of a black or brown LMx off the same cow's. The CH bull should put more power into the calves off average type AAx cow's compared to the LM bull which generally breeds a plainer, lankier calf off those sort of cow's.

ABitofsense

I've a good few AAx cows. The bulls I use which have worked very well is Knell (LM4217). He brings great length, very easy calved on cows & niceish quiet calves. I used a Saler (Knottstown Roy) on a AAx hiefer, she calved a lovely heifer calf this year herself so he'll be my go to bull for hiefers. Lodge hamlet works good too as bulls but heifers come plain of him & AAx cows from what I got.
ZAG just doesn't suit my AAx cows at all, very short butty calves. Worst calves I have. He will not be used again.

SuperTortoise

ABitofsense wrote: »

I've a good few AAx cows. The bulls I use which have worked very well is Knell (LM4217). He brings great length, very easy calved on cows & niceish quiet calves. I used a Saler (Knottstown Roy) on a AAx hiefer, she calved a lovely heifer calf this year herself so he'll be my go to bull for hiefers. Lodge hamlet works good too as bulls but heifers come plain of him & AAx cows from what I got.
ZAG just doesn't suit my AAx cows at all, very short butty calves. Worst calves I have. He will not be used again.

Give them ZAG calves 3-4 months you won't be disappointed, i've had a good few from him and they all turned out fine cattle, he's my go to bull for heifers.

lab man

ABitofsense wrote: »

I've a good few AAx cows. The bulls I use which have worked very well is Knell (LM4217). He brings great length, very easy calved on cows & niceish quiet calves. I used a Saler (Knottstown Roy) on a AAx hiefer, she calved a lovely heifer calf this year herself so he'll be my go to bull for hiefers. Lodge hamlet works good too as bulls but heifers come plain of him & AAx cows from what I got.
ZAG just doesn't suit my AAx cows at all, very short butty calves. Worst calves I have. He will not be used again.

Zag is a hit and miss bull

Albert Johnson

lab man wrote: »

Zag is a hit and miss bull

I've been of that opinion since his first crop of calves hit the ground and I've yet to see much to change my mind. He's an ideal bull for heifers imo, small easily calved and lively calves but that's the height of his merits. I see neighbours using him regularly on average to poorer type LMx, AAx, SHx cows and the resulting progeny are small, light, narrow and a mixed bag as regards temperament. Granted I've seen some better type stock off stronger cow's but they'd be further on putting a CH bull on them and the same cow's would breed a fair calf off any bull.

funkey_monkey

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

https://youtu.be/LFgOD02kVAA

@4:03 - that's part Bó Riabhach with the brindle on it.

ABitofsense

SuperTortoise wrote: »

Give them ZAG calves 3-4 months you won't be disappointed, i've had a good few from him and they all turned out fine cattle, he's my go to bull for heifers.

I thought the same last year that they would improve like Lodge Hamlet calves and used him again on some of the cows. But they didn't, my worst calves. But of course this is on my cows.
I've only a small herd of 16 cows (8x AAx) so hes not a consistent enough bull for me to risk again. Knell has been very consistent on my AAx though. His worst calf that i've had would still be ahead of any of my ZAG calves.

Anto_Meath

I have used Zag a good bit and I am happy with him. I have a mix of mostly lm cows with AI breeding back for a few generations. Would I get better calves from a CH or a bigger LM bull yes. But I am a part time farmer not always around the yard so I find Zag are easy calved and are hardy so thankfully they give very little trouble when calving. I find their temperament good but that probably comes from the cows been quite & easy managed. My problem now is getting a suitable bull for my Zag cows and heifers..

blue5000

Charolais for the weanling trade. I have a good few angus cows, blonde was a good bull on them for finishing them myself.

charolais0153

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

Most of them come that light silvery grey. I'd rather have them than a plain black lim if I was trying to sell them.

Yep,grey charolias 100 maybe 200 ahead of a black lim

bogman_bass

I’m not selling weanlings but for me the best bull for that type of cow is a blue. You get shape from the blue and a bit of fat cover from the Angus. You end up with a good bullock.

charolais0153

charolais0153 wrote: »

Yep,grey charolias 100 maybe 200 ahead of a black lim

Is it a fashion thing with the colour?

Regularly hitting mid 400 kg weights at factory on black lmx and black whitehead lmx bullocks

Sure the red looks class but they are only cattle not show ponies

Castlekeeper

Would a Parthenaise offer anything in terms of calving ease, colour and shape?
Or is there a price for them in the weanling market?
(Speaking as a dairy farmer here!)

kollegeknight

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Is it a fashion thing with the colour?

Regularly hitting mid 400 kg weights at factory on black lmx and black whitehead lmx bullocks

Sure the red looks class but they are only cattle not show ponies

Blacks always undersell on the reds here

148multi

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Is it a fashion thing with the colour?

Regularly hitting mid 400 kg weights at factory on black lmx and black whitehead lmx bullocks

Sure the red looks class but they are only cattle not show ponies

I have a neighbour who buys 45-50 weanlings, he splits them with the best kept in the road fields.
Fashion, show and pride, call it what you like.

148multi

148multi wrote: »

I have a neighbour who buys 45-50 weanlings, he splits them with the best kept in the road fields.
Fashion, show and pride, call it what you like.

But who is looking at these cattle?

Other neighbours doing the same thing maybe?

Maybe these fellas remember bibi baskin or something

kollegeknight

kollegeknight wrote: »

Blacks always undersell on the reds here

I suppose its a looks thing, its easier to see shape definition etc in a red or white animal I suppose.

kollegeknight

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I suppose its a looks thing, its easier to see shape definition etc in a red or white animal I suppose.

And in our case, when you look at carcass weights etc, the blacks out perform the reds.

Mac Taylor

Anto_Meath wrote: »

I have used Zag a good bit and I am happy with him. I have a mix of mostly lm cows with AI breeding back for a few generations. Would I get better calves from a CH or a bigger LM bull yes. But I am a part time farmer not always around the yard so I find Zag are easy calved and are hardy so thankfully they give very little trouble when calving. I find their temperament good but that probably comes from the cows been quite & easy managed. My problem now is getting a suitable bull for my Zag cows and heifers..

Lm2014 would be an option for you or eby (eby in my opinion suits a bigger type of heifer)

Anto_Meath

Thanks Mac Taylor, I actually bought a brown Simx in calf heifer this year that was carrying EBY and I have a lovely orange bull calf off him. She has a lot of milk and its really showing on him. I had a Lm2014 heifer calf last year out of a Zag heifer, the smallest calf I have seen born here in a while but when they were weaned she matched in with all the others plus she is nice and quite. I have a few in calf to LM2014 this year but they have to calf yet.

Anto_Meath

The best weanlings to sell are the golden / yellow ones or the white Charolais and in fairness they do weigh and grade in the factory. But a Ch that has a white face or is a brownish color is harder to sell unless it is very muscly. Personally I don't mind the color of an animal, it the animals potential and cost that influences me, hence I don't buy too many white Charolais or red LMs and I often wonder would I be better off selling my own good Red LM weanlings and buying in the ones that are less favored by the judges.

50HX

COYBIG14 wrote: »

Hello folks,

Looking to see which bull would be best to put with dairy based Angus X cows. We are in beef production ourselves so these calf’s would be for beef.

Thanks!

I've had the same down thru the years

For me ch/bb work best

I tried a few sim this year and yes they came black but great shape so far