Is FF gone as a party?

skimpydoo

It's looking more likely that FF is slowly disintegrating and more info is in the Irish Examiner story below.

Is it time that FF and FG merged? Because it looks like only of these two party's will be left standing.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40258550.html?fbclid=IwAR0xsK3xJuNWFsV12OJt6FxEe9dsMIpcCnTBEh9Je8K2AnjKtmUu487QWjU

I says

Yes and fg also.

I Am The Law

I says wrote: »

Yes and fg also.

Yes.

skimpydoo

I says wrote: »

Yes and fg also.

Do you think they will merge?

can’t see FG going anywhere.

I says

skimpydoo wrote: »

Do you think they will merge?

No they won’t merge just go the way of the PDs.

jhegarty

If the IMF arriving didn't kill them then nothing will.

I says

jhegarty wrote: »

If the IMF arriving didn't kill them then nothing will.

This is different.

TP_CM

It certainly looks to me like Leo is still Taoiseach to be honest. Or else he is way better at PR. Remember last year with his "Unless it comes from my mouth don't believe it". And he still seems to be making a lot of those announcements nowadays.

But I can't imagine FF breaking up anytime soon. They're too old and if they do start to split up, making smaller parties, Sinn Fein will take over and ruin everything.

Everyone will still be voting one or the other in 20 years time.

mzungu

FF and FG will never merge, but things aren't looking good for FF in the medium to long term.

skimpydoo

TP_CM wrote: »

It certainly looks to me like Leo is still Taoiseach to be honest. Or else he is way better at PR. Remember last year with his "Unless it comes from my mouth don't believe it". And he still seems to be making a lot of those announcements nowadays.

So if he gets charged do we still believe what Leo says, considering he has consistently said nothing will come of this and that he won't be charged.

McGinniesta

Short of pulling their jocks down and taking a dump on the floor of the dail, what do the FF party have to do before people truly realise their incompetence

jimwallace197

Deleted User wrote: »

can’t see FG going anywhere.

Fine Gael gone sooner imo, long history of families supporting Fianna Fail in bigger numbers in this country however incompetent their party leader seems currently. He will be gone soon.

VinLieger

I says wrote: »

Yes and fg also.

Thats very Doubtful, one of them will survive and at the moment it looks like it will be FG

James Brown

As long as their are self serving greedy people only interested in looking after their own, we'll have a FF (and of course a FG).

McGinniesta

jhegarty wrote: »

If the IMF arriving didn't kill them then nothing will.

Isn't it strange that, the next time they were elected to government the arsehole fell out of the economy again.

Perhaps not their fault but their response verges on the negligent.

dulpit

skimpydoo wrote: »

Is it time that FF and FG merged? Because it looks like only of these two party's will be left standing.

Not a chance FG would merge with FF, there's no benefit to them in doing so. They (FG) have carved out a nice spot for themselves as the obvious main party that people will vote for if they don't want Sinn Féin in power. Fianna Fáil have no stand out policy areas they can cling to. They're not left enough for the likes of Labour or the Soc Dems, they're not green enough for the greens, they're not right enough for Fine Gael and not republican enough for sinn fein.

Apart from traditional ff voters who are dying off, who's left to vote for them?

rolling boh

It has been an incredible fall really even allowing for the crash .They will find it hard to get credible people to stand for them as the brand is badly damaged and looking back at the last election they got little or no transfers which meant the failed to get those final seats while in a postion to do so with any bounce at all .MM has not given them any boost and not many really stand out to take over and give them the boost .Dispite some of the problems while in power FG seem to have much more going for them especially with the oppostion so fragmented .

It’s going to be very interesting to see where their voters go. I guess SF as the alternative Republican party. But I just can’t see SF making it. I’m a big fan of Leo and a couple of his colleagues but it seems to me there’s not one decent party left to vote for tbh.

Del.Monte

Long overdue that the two "old" civil war parties merged so that they can present a strong alternative to the "new" civil war party. The way SF and the DUP are stirring the pot, that's what's staring the country in the face for those willing to see.

Government buildings

It was going to happen that either Fianna Fail or Fine Gael would become the minority party and would eventually merge, as there is no difference between them.

The only way for Fianna Fail to survive was to develop more right-wing policies. This didn't happen.

I think Sinn Fein will be in power on their own next time. The Great White hope.

Where will we turn to after Sinn Fein?

Brussels Sprout

I says wrote: »

Yes and fg also.

jimwallace197 wrote: »

Fine Gael gone sooner imo, long history of families supporting Fianna Fail in bigger numbers in this country however incompetent their party leader seems currently. He will be gone soon.

There's a lot of wishful thinking on display here.

Fine Gael are either the number 1 or a close 2nd in every recent poll. That's remarkable considering that they've been in power for a decade.

They're not going anywhere.

RandomViewer

dulpit wrote: »

Not a chance FG would merge with FF, there's no benefit to them in doing so. They (FG) have carved out a nice spot for themselves as the obvious main party that people will vote for if they don't want Sinn Féin in power. Fianna Fáil have no stand out policy areas they can cling to. They're not left enough for the likes of Labour or the Soc Dems, they're not green enough for the greens, they're not right enough for Fine Gael and not republican enough for sinn fein.

Apart from traditional ff voters who are dying off, who's left to vote for them?

FG have lost a lot of rural Conservative votes, Varadkar is not their sort of leader, chasing the Woke who don't vote will cost them dearly,

Dyr

RandomViewer wrote: »

FG have lost a lot of rural Conservative votes, Varadkar is not their sort of leader, chasing the Woke who don't vote will cost them dearly,

Hardly, there isnt a jot between SF and FG on social issues except when it comes to giving welfare to the native povvos. Modern Irish politics is all about being in a strong enough position to capitalise when the other lot **** up. Policy is a poor second

Feisar

RandomViewer wrote: »

FG have lost a lot of rural Conservative votes, Varadkar is not their sort of leader, chasing the Woke who don't vote will cost them dearly,

Yes, it's all well and good chasing the woke crowd as you say but ultimately pointless if they don't vote.

jimwallace197

VinLieger wrote: »

Thats very Doubtful, one of them will survive and at the moment it looks like it will be FG

Get up the yard, look at the state of their main politicians. Simon Harris who couldnt even finish a journalism degree but feels he can pontificate about covid 19 as a health minister without knowing 19 stood for the year it was found rather than the amount of corona viruses. On top of this, an absolute dope trying to appeal to the younger people with his tik tok videos.

Coveney, a miserable s**** if there ever was one. Clueless in negotiations with Britain in relation to Brexit and even more clueless in relation to which countries we should quarantine now, over a year after the pandemic started.

Heather Humphreys, I think anyone who has read the news lately knows everything there is to know about this hypocrite. I believe a second whistle blower has stepped forward about her now. To top it off, the brass neck on her defending Varadkar as she is about to take the justice ministry portfolio when he clearly committed a criminal act.

Helen McEntee, inherited a position from her Dad who was prominent in the Meath region. Nepotism at its finest, has never worked a day in the real world. Far out of her depth as the justice minister. More interested in going after men more than anything. A true feminist in that equality is not the aim of what she is trying to achieve but the suppression of male rights.

Josepha Madigan, we all know her involvement in the Maria Bailey scandal and how she encouraged her to go ahead with that claim, especially since it was Madigans family law firm Bailey went to. On top of this, wanting to remove the Kerryman newspaper name and replacing it with Kerry People seems to be high on her list of woke priorities in the time of an international crisis. Extremely hypocritical in that she campaigns vigorously against methadone clinics and travellers settling anywhere near her south Dublin constituency but is happy for them to be placed elsewhere. Not surprised her Dad's family is from Mayo tbh.

And Finally, Varadkar, I think we all know about him at this stage.

The sooner Fine Gael are removed permanently from our countries history the better.

RandomViewer

Even if FF and FG merge they'll lose the older Republican vote in FFs case and the hard right support of FG, FFs will transfer to SF but the former FGers will be putting the likes of Gemma and Delores Cahill in the Dail

An Claidheamh

Del.Monte wrote: »

Long overdue that the two "old" civil war parties merged so that they can present a strong alternative to the "new" civil war party. The way SF and the DUP are stirring the pot, that's what's staring the country in the face for those willing to see.

FG are essentially the southern version of the DUP, quite rightly SF won’t take FG crap either - something Irish people aren’t used to seeing


Amazing how both FF and FG apparently don’t know their electorate

FF and FG are essentially supposedly conservative/centrist/pro business but also heavily pro-welfare, pro-crime, pro-legal industry, they hop on any woke band wagon that their voters would feel antagonised by including anti-religious/Catholic remarks (or in FG’s case pro-Orange Order/DUP) when it is fashionable

In fact, FG live on Twitter and forget it is not real life, real support

mikemac2

Was reading these threads 10 years ago but FF have the biggest cumann system in the country and they rebuilt

And now they are in power

If boards.ie represented Ireland then David Norris would be President and Sinn Fein would be in power

dulpit

jimwallace197 wrote: »

Get up the yard, look at the state of their main politicians. Simon Harris who couldnt even finish a journalism degree but feels he can pontificate about covid 19 as a health minister without knowing 19 stood for the year it was found rather than the amount of corona viruses. On top of this, an absolute dope trying to appeal to the younger people with his tik tok videos.

Coveney, a miserable s**** if there ever was one. Clueless in negotiations with Britain in relation to Brexit and even more clueless in relation to which countries we should quarantine now, over a year after the pandemic started.

Heather Humphreys, I think anyone who has read the news lately knows everything there is to know about this hypocrite. I believe a second whistle blower has stepped forward about her now. To top it off, the brass neck on her defending Varadkar as she is about to take the justice ministry portfolio when he clearly committed a criminal act.

Helen McEntee, inherited a position from her Dad who was prominent in the Meath region. Nepotism at its finest, has never worked a day in the real world. Far out of her depth as the justice minister. More interested in going after men more than anything. A true feminist in that equality is not the aim of what she is trying to achieve but the suppression of male rights.

Josepha Madigan, we all know her involvement in the Maria Bailey scandal and how she encouraged her to go ahead with that claim, especially since it was Madigans family law firm Bailey went to. On top of this, wanting to remove the Kerryman newspaper name and replacing it with Kerry People seems to be high on her list of woke priorities in the time of an international crisis. Extremely hypocritical in that she campaigns vigorously against methadone clinics and travellers settling anywhere near her south Dublin constituency but is happy for them to be placed elsewhere. Not surprised her Dad's family is from Mayo tbh.

And Finally, Varadkar, I think we all know about him at this stage.

The sooner Fine Gael are removed permanently from our countries history the better.

So not a blueshirt anyway?

As much as you might not like the politicians named, doesn't get around the fact they're likely to be one of the 2 big parties for the foreseeable.

An interesting thing to think about is what will happen to Sinn Féin voters after they end up in government and can't deliver all of their promises. Will they stay loyal or drift elsewhere?

RandomViewer

Feisar wrote: »

Yes, it's all well and good chasing the woke crowd as you say but ultimately pointless if they don't vote.

Huge number of under 30s aren't registered to vote, politics is in as big a decline as religion,

Beechwoodspark

Harris didn’t even finish the first year of the journalism course by the way

The very idea that he has joined tik tok says all you need to know about that clown

jimwallace197

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

There's a lot of wishful thinking on display here.

Fine Gael are either the number 1 or a close 2nd in every recent poll. That's remarkable considering that they've been in power for a decade.

They're not going anywhere.

Polls dont mean s*** sunshine, open your eyes. Last election, they were third behind Fianna Fail and Sinn Fein. Only got into government because Martin could not contemplate going into government with Sinn Fein.

Not surprising considering he is a school teacher from Cork. The sooner he is replaced the better for Fianna Fail, when we have a Sinn Fein/Fianna Fail co-alition and the removal of Fine Gael permanently as a party, the better it will be for our country.

RandomViewer

RandomViewer wrote: »

Even if FF and FG merge they'll lose the older Republican vote in FFs case and the hard right support of FG, FFs will transfer to SF but the former FGers will be putting the likes of Gemma and Delores Cahill in the Dail

Older FFs will rot in hell before they vote for SF.

Sammy2012

dulpit wrote: »

So not a blueshirt anyway?

As much as you might not like the politicians named, doesn't get around the fact they're likely to be one of the 2 big parties for the foreseeable.

An interesting thing to think about is what will happen to Sinn Féin voters after they end up in government and can't deliver all of their promises. Will they stay loyal or drift elsewhere?

I think people want an alternative to the other 2. There is an opening for someone to start a party for the people. People will vote for SF in the next election as they are fed up of the other 2 and all their rubbish. But there is a huge % of the population who want someone to vote for who will actually represent them.

Oranage2

Depends how sinn fein do, hard to see them not getting into power after the recent **** show that's FF/FG. Though FG have the better politicians at the moment FF is still the bigger brand . Hard to see them splitting

mikemac2

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Harris didn’t even finish the first year of the journalism course by the way

The very idea that he has joined tik tok says all you need to know about that clown

If education mattered then Michael McDowell as one of the highest paid barristers in the state should have been the most amazing Minister for Justice

Albert Reynolds was a millionaire entering politics and never went to college

You don’t need a 4 year degree to be a leader. The details can be done by the permanent civil service staff.

jimwallace197

dulpit wrote: »

So not a blueshirt anyway?

As much as you might not like the politicians named, doesn't get around the fact they're likely to be one of the 2 big parties for the foreseeable.

An interesting thing to think about is what will happen to Sinn Féin voters after they end up in government and can't deliver all of their promises. Will they stay loyal or drift elsewhere?

Not deliver on their promises?? That sounds very familiar to Fine Gael & Fianna Fail, yah? Dont let hypocrisy get in the way of your criticism of Sinn Fein.

jimmycrackcorm

I says wrote: »

fg also.

I Am The Law wrote: »

Yes.

Deleted User wrote: »

can’t see FG going anywhere.

jimwallace197 wrote: »

Fine Gael gone sooner imo

Absolutely ridiculous stuff.
FF voters have a choice.
- go for the resurgent republicanism that is SF.
- go for the only centrist orientated part - FG.
- Stick with a declining FF

I think that SF will see more success in the next election. But their populist agenda will see them unstuck because they can't deliver what they promise. They have no history of actually delivering north or south unless you count stopping shootings and bombing people to bits as a win.

But SF is FF's successor. There's a cohort of people who won't ever vote for FF again because of what they did to the country. They're lost.

We're arriving politically into the age of left vs right. People who pay for the people who don't. FF have no natural place in this environment.

Zebra3

dulpit wrote: »

Not a chance FG would merge with FF, there's no benefit to them in doing so. They (FG) have carved out a nice spot for themselves as the obvious main party that people will vote for if they don't want Sinn Féin in power. Fianna Fáil have no stand out policy areas they can cling to. They're not left enough for the likes of Labour or the Soc Dems, they're not green enough for the greens, they're not right enough for Fine Gael and not republican enough for sinn fein.

Apart from traditional ff voters who are dying off, who's left to vote for them?

Yep.

FF destroyed young people's chances over the last 10+ years and they are loathed by under 30s as a result.

Absolutely no talent coming through the ranks either.

FG will always attract those who couldn't give a toss about the less fortunate in society (though many like Thatcher will dispute its' existence).

Martin avoided being the first FF leader not to get the main gig, but that's only a matter of time before it happens. He'd be well out on his ear too if there was anyone capable of replacing him even though he sets such a low bar.

BonnieSituation

jimwallace197 wrote: »

Fine Gael gone sooner imo, long history of families supporting Fianna Fail in bigger numbers in this country however incompetent their party leader seems currently. He will be gone soon.

jimwallace197 wrote: »

Get up the yard, look at the state of their main politicians. Simon Harris who couldnt even finish a journalism degree but feels he can pontificate about covid 19 as a health minister without knowing 19 stood for the year it was found rather than the amount of corona viruses. On top of this, an absolute dope trying to appeal to the younger people with his tik tok videos.

Coveney, a miserable s**** if there ever was one. Clueless in negotiations with Britain in relation to Brexit and even more clueless in relation to which countries we should quarantine now, over a year after the pandemic started.

Heather Humphreys, I think anyone who has read the news lately knows everything there is to know about this hypocrite. I believe a second whistle blower has stepped forward about her now. To top it off, the brass neck on her defending Varadkar as she is about to take the justice ministry portfolio when he clearly committed a criminal act.

Helen McEntee, inherited a position from her Dad who was prominent in the Meath region. Nepotism at its finest, has never worked a day in the real world. Far out of her depth as the justice minister. More interested in going after men more than anything. A true feminist in that equality is not the aim of what she is trying to achieve but the suppression of male rights.

Josepha Madigan, we all know her involvement in the Maria Bailey scandal and how she encouraged her to go ahead with that claim, especially since it was Madigans family law firm Bailey went to. On top of this, wanting to remove the Kerryman newspaper name and replacing it with Kerry People seems to be high on her list of woke priorities in the time of an international crisis. Extremely hypocritical in that she campaigns vigorously against methadone clinics and travellers settling anywhere near her south Dublin constituency but is happy for them to be placed elsewhere. Not surprised her Dad's family is from Mayo tbh.

And Finally, Varadkar, I think we all know about him at this stage.

The sooner Fine Gael are removed permanently from our countries history the better.

You're a credit to your Cumann.

spring lane jack

mikemac2 wrote: »

If education mattered then Michael McDowell as one of the highest paid barristers in the state should have been the most amazing Minister for Justice

You don’t need a 4 year degree to be a leader. The details can be done by the permanent civil service staff.

I call him the Minister for Heroin use Expansion. He was a useless minister. The two Cannabis Resin droughts of 2005 and 2006 led to Heroin use spiralling out of control and infesting all our towns and cities. The resumption of Poppy farming in Afghanistan after the fall of the Taliban meant the crap was easily available. He did nothing to stop it. Cork was pretty much Heroin free till that prick became minister.

Tyrone212

My Dad's family were all FF. Out of the 9 of them, none of them have voted for FF in over 10-12 years and they all used to. Can't see any of them returning tbh, they don't like party anymore and none of them rate MM. I don't see that changing even when he leaves.

There were once seen as a republican party but not anymore. They've lost that vote as well by a good chunk. MM seems against a UI.

PCeeeee

The problem with FF for me is their TD's. The number of them that strike me as even semi-competent could be counted on one hand. You can argue the 'macro' politics of it (if that is even a phrase) but FF have very few people that the electorate want. IMO, it's that simple.

Gregor Samsa

I severely doubt FF will disappear in the next two Dáil terms. The next 8 months of the Covid crisis are crucial to what happens next politically. If the vaccine rollout kicks in to gear, things open up by the summer, and the tourism/hospitality/retail side of the economy starts to recover, then the FG/FF coalition will continue to the end of its term, and will stand a good chance of getting back in next time.

However, if the vaccine rollout continues to stall, and summer is still under major restrictions, then the coalition will probably fall by autumn, and SF will be in a ripe position to be the majority Government party in the next term. The'll have to do it with a hodgepodge of the smaller left parties, though. Which won't be an easy ride for them, and I can't see that surviving a full term. If FF, FG and whatever remains of Labour and the Greens manage to keep snapping at the heels as opposition during that time, they'd stand a chance of coming back the following term in some combination of a coalition.

FF's major problem is that they have no upcoming personalities, so there's absolutely nothing to make them stand out. FG, for all their many faults, at least have relative youth on the side of most of their biggest names, which gives them the potential for longevity. Labour have completely lost their way and their voice, and the Greens suffer from both the fact that "green" policies have been adopted by pretty much all parties in some way, shape or form, and that they tend to attract idealists who don't have much time for party dficippine - so it's very difficult for them to act as one when it matters.

SF's, who used to be the absolute masters of party discipline, are beginning to see that being a bigger player - and without a Messianic leader - makes this more difficult. And going onto a coalition with the likes of PBP will be severely testing for keeping discipline. What they do have going for them is a general feeling that their chance has come, so that's a momentum that probably won't stop until it is realised. So they will get their chance for sure, but the big question then will be how they handle that, especially given who they will have to depend on to do it.

If SF went into government and did a good job, managing to complete a full term and leave then country in a better state than they got it, then FF would certainly be in existential trouble, as there isn't room for both them and FG as opposition parties for longer than one term, and FF would lose more to SF than FG would.

Deleted User

Completely writing off a party with 38 tds and 276 councillors. Lads these threads are wild. :cool:

Deleted User wrote: »

Older FFs will rot in hell before they vote for SF.

That will be a be a major problem for SF, FF will drive an awfully hard bargain to go in with them.

Zebra3

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Completely writing off a party with 38 tds and 276 councillors. Lads these threads are wild. :cool:

So go on then, tell us about all the talent coming through.

Who'll replace MM?

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

That will be a be a major problem for SF, FF will drive an awfully hard bargain to go in with them.

It's not a problem at all for SF. Older voters are dying out. Younger voters have nothing to be attracted to FF. If someone asked the average punter what FF stand for, the answer would most likely be themselves.

The 26 county republican party. Did you ever hear anything like it? :rolleyes:

Fred Cryton

skimpydoo wrote: »

It's looking more likely that FF is slowly disintegrating and more info is in the Irish Examiner story below.

Is it time that FF and FG merged? Because it looks like only of these two party's will be left standing.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40258550.html?fbclid=IwAR0xsK3xJuNWFsV12OJt6FxEe9dsMIpcCnTBEh9Je8K2AnjKtmUu487QWjU

Irish politics has polarized into the Shinners on one side (welfare dependents, students, vigilantes, criminals and anti-vaxxers) and FG on the other (middle class, higher rate taxpayers, multinational workers and retired parents of same)


Fundamentally FF need to decide where they stand on that spectrum. They are in very very big trouble if the middle class even get a sniff they might get into bed with SF. Don't envy their position right now in politics.

They are going nowhere. When push comes to shove the electorate will run back to them as always.

Fred Cryton

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

However, if the vaccine rollout continues to stall, and summer is still under major restrictions, then the coalition will probably fall by autumn.

I don't see that happening. Why would it fall? Would be Turkeys voting for Christmas. Better to leave SF waiting another 4 years and Covid will be distant memory by then. Housing will still be the main issue at the next election.