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Mercedes EQS

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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,843 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    Cd of just 0.20, that must be the best of any mass produced car ever made? Should mean it has a very decent range at motorway speeds. Very important im Vaterland :D

    When will we see this on the roads though? I'm loving the start of a bit of competition finally in the high end of the market after Tesla's 10 year total dominance. This Mercedes, the Lucid air. The continuously improving Model S. All cars I would hope to be able to buy when they are about 6-8 years old and depreciated a good bit.

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 822 ✭✭✭ Round Cable


    unkel wrote: »
    Cd of just 0.20, that must be the best of any mass produced car ever made? Should mean it has a very decent range at motorway speeds. Very important im Vaterland :D

    A Cd of 0.2 is very impressive, the GM EV1 was 0.19, but that was a 2 seater and had a very distinctive teardrop shape, with covered rear wheels.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,797 ✭✭✭ LorenzoB


    unkel wrote: »
    Cd of just 0.20, that must be the best of any mass produced car ever made? Should mean it has a very decent range at motorway speeds. Very important im Vaterland :D

    When will we see this on the roads though? I'm loving the start of a bit of competition finally in the high end of the market after Tesla's 10 year total dominance. This Mercedes, the Lucid air. The continuously improving Model S. All cars I would hope to be able to buy when they are about 6-8 years old and depreciated a good bit.

    Given your experience, would you truly buy an 8 year old out of warranty battery car?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,843 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    LorenzoB wrote: »
    Given your experience, would you truly buy an 8 year old out of warranty battery car?

    Of course I would. If a battery problem would come up an indy will sort it for me or I would even do it myself.

    Funny thing is that nothing ever changes in people's mind set, does it? The guts of 20 years ago I bought a brilliant car, a BMW 735i for €11k, which was a good bit cheaper than the €130k it would have cost new. Back then everyone was thinking I was mad

    Everyone was thinking I was mad when I bought a brand new Ioniq in 2017. Cost me €25k, sold it 3 years later for €20k. Who is mad exactly?

    My Tesla is worth a lot more than what I paid for it over a year ago. Brilliant car, so far ahead of the game, it's unreal.

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭ peposhi


    unkel wrote: »
    Of course I would. If a battery problem would come up an indy will sort it for me or I would even do it myself.

    Funny thing is that nothing ever changes in people's mind set, does it? The guts of 20 years ago I bought a brilliant car, a BMW 735i for €11k, which was a good bit cheaper than the €130k it would have cost new. Back then everyone was thinking I was mad

    Everyone was thinking I was mad when I bought a brand new Ioniq in 2017. Cost me €25k, sold it 3 years later for €20k. Who is mad exactly?

    My Tesla is worth a lot more than what I paid for it over a year ago. Brilliant car, so far ahead of the game, it's unreal.

    In a few years time you’d be telling us about the Merc you got for a fraction of what you would have normally paid :)
    Can’t wait for it lol


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  • Registered Users Posts: 30,509 ✭✭✭✭ Lumen


    It's good to see Merc focusing on luxury AND efficiency.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭ Jizique


    unkel wrote: »
    Cd of just 0.20, that must be the best of any mass produced car ever made? Should mean it has a very decent range at motorway speeds. Very important im Vaterland :D

    When will we see this on the roads though? I'm loving the start of a bit of competition finally in the high end of the market after Tesla's 10 year total dominance. This Mercedes, the Lucid air. The continuously improving Model S. All cars I would hope to be able to buy when they are about 6-8 years old and depreciated a good bit.

    Tesla is finished in the high end of the market; even in China they sell less than 1k annually, whereas a car like the X5 sells 50k annually, with Lexus having the largest sales of any high end import model. Will be interesting to see what the new S-class sells in China this year.
    Models S/X Q1 sales came in at less than 3k globally. These products are effectively dead.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,594 ✭✭✭✭ ted1


    Jizique wrote: »
    Tesla is finished in the high end of the market; even in China they sell less than 1k annually, whereas a car like the X5 sells 50k annually, with Lexus having the largest sales of any high end import model. Will be interesting to see what the new S-class sells in China this year.
    Models S/X Q1 sales came in at less than 3k globally. These products are effectively dead.

    2% for EV vs ICE is really good.

    The S/X got a much needed refresh and sales were down as a result, as orders were paused as was production. But Musk did say in 2019 they make them
    More for sentimental reason

    I think what you meant to say is ICE is dying.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,345 ✭✭✭ Oafley Jones


    ted1 wrote: »
    2% for EV vs ICE is really good.

    The S/X got a much needed refresh and sales were down as a result, as orders were paused as was production. But Musk did say in 2019 they make them
    More for sentimental reason

    I think what you meant to say is ICE is dying.

    Yip, you can’t really be comparing apples to oranges, but this really should give Tesla the fear for their top end. The S and X needed far more than the refresh it got. They can distract with weird steering wheels and acceleration times, but they needed a whole new car to compete with what’s coming (and already there).


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,594 ✭✭✭✭ ted1


    Yip, you can’t really be comparing apples to oranges, but this really should give Tesla the fear for their top end. The S and X needed far more than the refresh it got. They can distract with weird steering wheels and acceleration times, but they needed a whole new car to compete with what’s coming (and already there).

    I don’t think they fear competition from EV, they welcome it. The more EVs on the road the more likely others are to buy one.
    Would you prefer to corner a niche market with 50% of 50,000 cars. Or would you Prefer to have 5% of the markets that’s 50 million. ?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,529 ✭✭✭✭ Dont be at yourself


    Looks like they've sacrificed styling to achieve that CD. A bit disappointint -- the headline range numbers are very impressive, but if I'm buying a Merc, I'd happily sacrifice that for more distinctive styling. Perhaps it'll be better in the metal.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,345 ✭✭✭ Oafley Jones


    ted1 wrote: »
    I don’t think they fear competition from EV, they welcome it. The more EVs on the road the more likely others are to buy one.
    Would you prefer to corner a niche market with 50% of 50,000 cars. Or would you Prefer to have 5% of the markets that’s 50 million. ?

    The EV market is going to take off regardless of what Tesla or any company do. I think we’ve already reached (or are reaching a critical inflexion point. The “we welcome competition” line is one of the oldest, most insincere, worn out pieces of PR guff that no one should pay attention to. No company welcomes a competitor that puts out a better product in the same space.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,509 ✭✭✭✭ Lumen


    Looks like they've sacrificed styling to achieve that CD. A bit disappointint -- the headline range numbers are very impressive, but if I'm buying a Merc, I'd happily sacrifice that for more distinctive styling. Perhaps it'll be better in the metal.

    Mercedes have been producing pig ugly cars ever since they discovered rounded corners in the early 2000s.

    One day I'll buy myself a dictator spec 600, flags and all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭ Jizique


    ted1 wrote: »
    I don’t think they fear competition from EV, they welcome it. The more EVs on the road the more likely others are to buy one.
    Would you prefer to corner a niche market with 50% of 50,000 cars. Or would you Prefer to have 5% of the markets that’s 50 million. ?

    Try telling that to the shareholder of Ferrari


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭ Jizique


    ted1 wrote: »
    2% for EV vs ICE is really good.

    The S/X got a much needed refresh and sales were down as a result, as orders were paused as was production. But Musk did say in 2019 they make them
    More for sentimental reason

    I think what you meant to say is ICE is dying.

    ICE is dying and I never said otherwise; I am just saying that the luxury segment of the market is likely to remain in the hands of the current incumbents as Tesla imcreasingly disappears from the high value, high margin market


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭ Jizique


    ted1 wrote: »
    2% for EV vs ICE is really good.

    How can you compare the market share for EV to a single product of an ICE competitor; Ferrari outsells the S/X in China.
    Total imports in China in 2020 is circa 1m units, Tesla S/X is less than 1k.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,509 ✭✭✭✭ Lumen


    Unfortunately for Tesla shareholders, the company isn't valued based on 5% market share of all passenger vehicles. That's the size of Daimler, whose market cap is 1/8 of Tesla.

    Tesla's story is about translating it's incredible US EV market share (80% I think) into global domination, becoming the Apple of EVs. Currently it's around 30% in Europe and 10% in China.

    What Tesla really need is a European design studio. Global platform with local styling. It's just a skateboard underneath, right?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭ slave1


    Lumen wrote: »

    What Tesla really need is a European design studio. Global platform with local styling. It's just a skateboard underneath, right?

    Nope, Tesla just one car away from full line up and that's the Tesla 2, smaller version of the 3.
    Then we'll have the Premium S and X and Roadster, high volumes Y and 2 and 3 and that will be it for Tesla passenger vehicles as I believe after that they are done and will keep that lineup forever with just facelifts and incremental changes over the years.
    Cyber/Semi/Powerwall with finish off rest of Tesla battery production capacity, so just Solar and Supercharger network and that's the company done and dusted.
    Very focused PLC.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭ Jizique


    slave1 wrote: »
    Nope, Tesla just one car away from full line up and that's the Tesla 2, smaller version of the 3.
    Then we'll have the Premium S and X and Roadster, high volumes Y and 2 and 3 and that will be it for Tesla passenger vehicles as I believe after that they are done and will keep that lineup forever with just facelifts and incremental changes over the years.
    Cyber/Semi/Powerwall with finish off rest of Tesla battery production capacity, so just Solar and Supercharger network and that's the company done and dusted.
    Very focused PLC.

    No chance - can’t make money on small cars and Tesla no exception.
    Stock is priced for unending growth and 20m units annually out of a global market of 100m cars so anything less will cause a collapse in the share price


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,594 ✭✭✭✭ ted1


    Jizique wrote: »
    No chance - can’t make money on small cars and Tesla no exception.
    Stock is priced for unending growth and 20m units annually out of a global market of 100m cars so anything less will cause a collapse in the share price

    They will make money on small cars. They started with the luxury models to bring down their pricing and costs. Tesla have bought down battery cysts significantly a d they are still decreasing. The manufacturing process is constantly being streamlined, automated. Look at how the stamping press removed 70 parts ans associated costs such welding and assembly


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,925 ✭✭✭ NSAman


    Jizique wrote: »
    No chance - can’t make money on small cars and Tesla no exception.
    Stock is priced for unending growth and 20m units annually out of a global market of 100m cars so anything less will cause a collapse in the share price

    Tesla’s market price is based on the future potential, its infrastructure (which is better than anyone else’s in the states) and the fact that currently is it the leader in innovation.

    Think about it, leading the charging infrastructure is an amazing feat.

    While I have driven the Tesla line up and yes it is fun, the only other I have tested is the lucid air...it’s like a completely different level of car. Can’t wait to get my hands on a few more like the EQS.

    Someone said Mercedes has built dog-ugly cars recently, I would disagree. The design of merc’s has improved incredibly. This eqs is odd alright buy you can be damned sure it will be a winner.

    The looser in design from the big companies is BMW ...talk about ugly cars lately!


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,594 ✭✭✭✭ ted1


    Jizique wrote: »
    No chance - can’t make money on small cars and Tesla no exception.
    Stock is priced for unending growth and 20m units annually out of a global market of 100m cars so anything less will cause a collapse in the share price

    That’s if you look at the small picture , like a traditional ICE manufacturer.
    They’ve a huge set of infrastructure in their charging network. Their solar and battery division is growing especially at Grid scale. The robotaxis when they get going will be a big revenue Generator. Think Uber but they own the entire chain


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭ Jizique


    ted1 wrote: »
    That’s if you look at the small picture , like a traditional ICE manufacturer.
    They’ve a huge set of infrastructure in their charging network. Their solar and battery division is growing especially at Grid scale. The robotaxis when they get going will be a big revenue Generator. Think Uber but they own the entire chain

    Dream on - FSD coming next quarter every quarter since 2016.
    No axe to grind but FSD will not be a thing this decade, they won’t make money in small cars, and other OEMs are not as far behind as you think.
    For starters, there is no market for small cars in the US.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,594 ✭✭✭✭ ted1


    Jizique wrote: »
    Dream on - FSD coming next quarter every quarter since 2016.
    No axe to grind but FSD will not be a thing this decade, they won’t make money in small cars, and other OEMs are not as far behind as you think.
    For starters, there is no market for small cars in the US.

    FSD will get there.
    They have the cyber truck for the states. Big mark up, no paint job, all pressed metal, etc.
    America makes up a small % of the whole world. While they have no market for small cars, Europe, Africa, South America and Asia do


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,925 ✭✭✭ NSAman


    ted1 wrote: »
    FSD will get there.
    They have the cyber truck for the states. Big mark up, no paint job, all pressed metal, etc.
    America makes up a small % of the whole world. While they have no market for small cars, Europe, Africa, South America and Asia do

    Not entirely true.

    2020 approx 73 million cars sold. China 24million USA 18 million

    While small cars are more popular in Asia and Europe, there is a trend starting in USA for more efficiency (finally) hence EV like Tesla are very prevalent on the roads.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,797 ✭✭✭ LorenzoB


    NSAman wrote: »
    Not entirely true.

    2020 approx 73 million cars sold. China 24million USA 18 million

    While small cars are more popular in Asia and Europe, there is a trend starting in USA for more efficiency (finally) hence EV like Tesla are very prevalent on the roads.

    https://www.forbes.com/wheels/news/best-selling-cars-suvs-pickups-2020/?amp

    Still buying more petrol trucks than anything


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,594 ✭✭✭✭ ted1


    LorenzoB wrote: »

    “Still” is a strawmans word. Is the number diminishing ? Upto the time they didn’t, prole bought Nokia phones


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭ Jizique


    ted1 wrote: »
    “Still” is a strawmans word. Is the number diminishing ? Upto the time they didn’t, prole bought Nokia phones

    Rising - market was 50/50 a decade ago but cars now only 25% with trucks crossovers at 75%.
    Similar trends here with crossovers and SUVs but obviously not as pronounced yet.
    Carmakers increasingly getting rid of their smallest offerings in Europe (happened in US a decade ago), can’t make money on them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,925 ✭✭✭ NSAman


    LorenzoB wrote: »

    True, and that is not going to change in the foreseeable future. Unlike most countries, you drive to live here. Spending upwards of 3 hours a day commuting comfort wins.

    Plus it is SO easy to purchase a car here, unlike Ireland.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,907 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    This looks interesting.
    Depending on price (It is an electric S klasse after all) it would be a competitor to traditional luxury saloons, along with pinching Taycan/Model S sales






    https://www.carwow.co.uk/mercedes/news/4267/mercedes-eqs-price-specs-release-date


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