New biker - how do you deal with these situations?

di11on

Hey folks,

Living in the south of France and just got my A2 license... all through the French system which is no mean feat!

I'm in my mid 40s and quite safety conscious. I'm quite aware of the hazards of the activity.

Anyway, something happened today which spooked me a little...

I'm on an open country road. Here in south of France, there are no hedges or anything blocking the view - really clear day, good visibility.

I see an intersection well ahead and a Hiace flatbed type vehicle approaching from a minor side road. Very clear unobstructed view. I see he slows down approaching the intersection, looking for all the world like he's seen me. However, I'm still cautious and keeping my eye on him - almost feeling like I'm a paranoid idiot... and unbelievably, at the last moment, he moves out, clearly not having seen I'm there. I was able to get around him comfortably enough, but in hindsight, if he had come out a little more aggressively or there had been another vehicle coming the other way, I could have been in very serious trouble.

What is really bothering me about this situation is that this was best-case visibility conditions and he just didn't see me. I was wearing a light grey helmet and brown leather jacket - lights on.

So what do you guys do to mitigate this scenario? I can't flash cars at every single intersection I pass - it might even be wrongly interpreted that I'm letting them out. I can't slow down at every intersection, just in case...

In hindsight I think I should have reacted more decisively, but at the same time, if I'm to do this at every intersection I cross - that just seems crazy.

What are your thoughts on this?

Jimmy Bottlehead

Drive for the worst case scenario... which, as you've seen first hand, never fails to shock or disappoint.

If that means slowing for every possibility, then do so. Not doing so increases your risk and then you're in the "Yeah but I was right, oh sh1t, I'm dead" category.

Sounds like you handled it very well though. Good visible gear, good observation, you drove defensively, and you managed to mitigate for some other arsehole's bad (and potentially fatal) driving. Well done.

blade1

di11on wrote: »

Hey folks,

Living in the south of France and just got my A2 license... all through the French system which is no mean feat!

I'm in my mid 40s and quite safety conscious. I'm quite aware of the hazards of the activity.

Anyway, something happened today which spooked me a little...

I'm on an open country road. Here in south of France, there are no hedges or anything blocking the view - really clear day, good visibility.

I see an intersection well ahead and a Hiace flatbed type vehicle approaching from a minor side road. Very clear unobstructed view. I see he slows down approaching the intersection, looking for all the world like he's seen me. However, I'm still cautious and keeping my eye on him - almost feeling like I'm a paranoid idiot... and unbelievably, at the last moment, he moves out, clearly not having seen I'm there. I was able to get around him comfortably enough, but in hindsight, if he had come out a little more aggressively or there had been another vehicle coming the other way, I could have been in very serious trouble.

What is really bothering me about this situation is that this was best-case visibility conditions and he just didn't see me. I was wearing a light grey helmet and brown leather jacket - lights on.

So what do you guys do to mitigate this scenario? I can't flash cars at every single intersection I pass - it might even be wrongly interpreted that I'm letting them out. I can't slow down at every intersection, just in case...

In hindsight I think I should have reacted more decisively, but at the same time, if I'm to do this at every intersection I cross - that just seems crazy.

What are your thoughts on this?

You done good. Better to be safe than sorry.

champchamp

di11on wrote: »

Hey folks,

Living in the south of France and just got my A2 license... all through the French system which is no mean feat!

I'm in my mid 40s and quite safety conscious. I'm quite aware of the hazards of the activity.

Anyway, something happened today which spooked me a little...

I'm on an open country road. Here in south of France, there are no hedges or anything blocking the view - really clear day, good visibility.

I see an intersection well ahead and a Hiace flatbed type vehicle approaching from a minor side road. Very clear unobstructed view. I see he slows down approaching the intersection, looking for all the world like he's seen me. However, I'm still cautious and keeping my eye on him - almost feeling like I'm a paranoid idiot... and unbelievably, at the last moment, he moves out, clearly not having seen I'm there. I was able to get around him comfortably enough, but in hindsight, if he had come out a little more aggressively or there had been another vehicle coming the other way, I could have been in very serious trouble.

What is really bothering me about this situation is that this was best-case visibility conditions and he just didn't see me. I was wearing a light grey helmet and brown leather jacket - lights on.

So what do you guys do to mitigate this scenario? I can't flash cars at every single intersection I pass - it might even be wrongly interpreted that I'm letting them out. I can't slow down at every intersection, just in case...

In hindsight I think I should have reacted more decisively, but at the same time, if I'm to do this at every intersection I cross - that just seems crazy.

What are your thoughts on this?

Wonder would a visivest have made any difference, probably not.

punisher5112

People see cars and trucks for example but it's well known they in many cases won't see the person on the bike.....

Treat everyone like they haven't seen you as some will look right through you and oy see the car or truck further back from you.

Max Headroom

Well i always assume theyre going to pull out and prepare myself, check my options..only takes a millisecond ....
And if they dont, i always give a friendly wave, they'll remember that...;)

NickNickleby

In that scenario, I would give a one second blast of the horn, maybe more than once, upon first seeing him.

I've been given the roll eyes in the past, but I'm here to tell you about it. I wear a white helmet and hi-vis jacket and headlamp on.

And just to make it amusing, I ride a 03 Deauville. Sedately.


BTW, had to do this recently as a a car looked like it was about to enter from a side road without the driver looking in my direction (I was in my car at the time). Got the "WTF is up with you" look.

I envy you, motorcycling in the south of France:)

Del2005

di11on wrote: »

Hey folks,

Living in the south of France and just got my A2 license... all through the French system which is no mean feat!

I'm in my mid 40s and quite safety conscious. I'm quite aware of the hazards of the activity.

Anyway, something happened today which spooked me a little...

I'm on an open country road. Here in south of France, there are no hedges or anything blocking the view - really clear day, good visibility.

I see an intersection well ahead and a Hiace flatbed type vehicle approaching from a minor side road. Very clear unobstructed view. I see he slows down approaching the intersection, looking for all the world like he's seen me. However, I'm still cautious and keeping my eye on him - almost feeling like I'm a paranoid idiot... and unbelievably, at the last moment, he moves out, clearly not having seen I'm there. I was able to get around him comfortably enough, but in hindsight, if he had come out a little more aggressively or there had been another vehicle coming the other way, I could have been in very serious trouble.

What is really bothering me about this situation is that this was best-case visibility conditions and he just didn't see me. I was wearing a light grey helmet and brown leather jacket - lights on.

So what do you guys do to mitigate this scenario? I can't flash cars at every single intersection I pass - it might even be wrongly interpreted that I'm letting them out. I can't slow down at every intersection, just in case...

In hindsight I think I should have reacted more decisively, but at the same time, if I'm to do this at every intersection I cross - that just seems crazy.

What are your thoughts on this?

Unless there's a Yellow diamond on the main road then the side road has right of way in France. Was there a Yellow diamond on your road?

di11on

Thanks for the replies folks. By the sounds of things, I'm really glad this happened - because even though you know from statistics that people often don't see bikes, you don't really feel it until you experience it first hand.

NickNickleby wrote:

I envy you, motorcycling in the south of France

Yeah, it's a nice time of year for it, and nice roads. Looking forward to going to Corsica at some point - went there before and the boat was full of bikers and I was jealous! However, as of tomorrow, I'll be coming up with creative itineraries that don't take me outside of the 10km lockdown radius!!!

rock22

I think you did okay. Just remember it because it will happen again. And again , unfortunately.

I usually try to stay near the centre of the road, mainly to give me a little more room if he does come out. Also try to make eye contact , if possible. it will help you read the drivers intention.

di11on

Del2005 wrote: »

Unless there's a Yellow diamond on the main road then the side road has right of way in France. Was there a Yellow diamond on your road?

Ah yes, the famous "priorité a droite". This wasn't applying in this situation as it was a minor side road.

Mjolnir

The brain actively filters out stuff you're not looking for thats why people are more likely to hit and "not see" a parked bike over a parked car. Same applies to the road especially one they are constantly on.

You're on a bike you're invisible, ride as such. Lots of us have been in similar and worse situations honestly the best way to view it is every other road user is a moron and actively trying to kill you. You have to stay on your guard, I've had people point blank stare at me go to pull out and follow it with oh my god I didn't see you...

First squeaky bum moment is no fun, but you're OK so all good in the grand scheme. Just ride defensively, and be prepared for stupid sh!t to happen as if it's a certainty that it will.

babi-hrse

I've seen a dead motorcyclist he was in his late 50s and riding a touring BMW with a friend. From the look of the accident it looks like a car pulled out onto a major road and clipped him. The sight of it put me off ever owning a bike. One lazy car driver who gets nothing but shook up Vs a rider who's getting chest compressions in the middle of the road. Drive like there are idiots out there because half of the road are idiots and it only takes one not paying attention for a second. It's not right but it's a reality.

WestWicklow1

Get a high viz jacket or vest.

Don't forget your horn. Cover your brake lever.

Did you see him looking in your direction? No? Be very wary.

Watch the front wheels. (The fewer spokes, the easier it is to see the wheel moving). That's your first indication that he's moving.

Move left, right, left, right in your lane as you approach. He may not see you traveling in a straight line but he may if you move about.

Be absolutely sure you didn't leave your indicator on. Get into the habit of pressing the indicator off button as you ride along. No need to check if the indicator is on, if it shouldn't be on, just press it.

Betsy Og

Think you did right.

Only other option, depending on everything of course, but could you lash past the junction before he reaches it?? Obv you'd need to be certain you'd beat him to it and not give yourself another problem at the next bend or junction, because all things equal the higher the speed the bigger the mess.

I recall an instructor once telling me (after I was giving it the 'slow and cautious' answer) - sometimes you need to get the **** out of there, he can't hit if he can't reach you kinda thing.

Other than that shove out to the centreline, try to make eye contact, cover the brake. I wear a high vis, prob not cool but I'd say it does help.

Breezin

You can't control everything, no matter how you try. You probably couldn't have done anything more to influence the outcome.

I found myself in auto survival mode just today, veering off to the right in response to an idiot suddenly bolting from a side road. A real 'here we go' moment, slo-mo and all.

She jammed on, all surprised there was actually traffic, and I lived to tell the tale.

My rule... if I can see them, and their wheels are still rolling, my wheels are stopping. As others have said, the moron can eye roll and stare all they want.

di11on

WestWicklow1 wrote: »

Get a high viz jacket or vest.
Move left, right, left, right in your lane as you approach. He may not see you traveling in a straight line but he may if you move about.

Reading this, it seems kinda obvious, but I hadn't thought of it.

Thanks everyone for the advice and comments - I wasn't really sure what I was expecting to hear when I posted, but I have found this really really helpful.

Thanks folks!

two wheels good

I'd like to add..
You jammy barsteward!

and..
Use the horn, a loud one, before the event.
There are other PaD signs worth noting too but hey, you're the local.

zubair

Pretty sure I slow down at every intersection. I occasionally throw on the high beam if I really don't trust a driver at the junction.

flashinthepan

I think If I were you i would get something with more contrast than a grey helmet and a brown jacket

raven41

I always look for the drivers eyes as opposed to looking at the vehicle. However (as in this case) even if he has seen you there is no guarantee he will still pull out. Sounds a bit strange, but sometimes you get a 6th sense for these things, just a feeling that something will happen. Go on it. Hi viz while not the trendiest thing in the world is a must.
I have a mate who rides in daylight with his high beam on, says it makes him more visible (in addition to his fog lights).
For me this makes it harder for car drivers to judge speed/distance.

di11on

flashinthepan wrote: »

I think If I were you i would get something with more contrast than a grey helmet and a brown jacket

I'm on Amazon now lol :-)

schaffer

As most have already said you need to prepare for the worst.
I've had too may close calls with cars (and people) who should have seen me but did not look or just did not see me.
Nearly got taken out on a roundabout when a guy just did not stop coming onto it. When I caught up to him at traffic lights he was embarrassed and said he just did not see me.... even wearing a high vis vest.
Some of the time people see you but they underestimate the speed and acceleration that a motorcycle has, so take the chance to move out ahead of you.

Never assume someone will see you even if they are looking directly at you.
Slow down coming up to junctions, move to the centre of the road, have situational awareness of other traffic or hazards (road surface) around you and always be prepared to emergency brake or swerve.

No amount of safety gear will stop you getting killed or seriously killed if you do not drive for the current conditions and don't speed.

zubair

raven41 wrote: »

I always look for the drivers eyes as opposed to looking at the vehicle. However (as in this case) even if he has seen you there is no guarantee he will still pull out. Sounds a bit strange, but sometimes you get a 6th sense for these things, just a feeling that something will happen. Go on it. Hi viz while not the trendiest thing in the world is a must.
I have a mate who rides in daylight with his high beam on, says it makes him more visible (in addition to his fog lights).
For me this makes it harder for car drivers to judge speed/distance.

You can tell your mate this biker thinks he's a d1ck.

As the guys advised earlier, look at the front wheels for motion rather than the drivers face or eyes. It's a well known fact and has been experienced by most of us that a driver can look directly at you and still pull out.

Your right about the 6th sense, sometimes you just know what they're going to do before they do.

dbas

zubair wrote: »

You can tell your mate this biker thinks he's a d1ck.

As the guys advised earlier, look at the front wheels for motion rather than the drivers face or eyes. It's a well known fact and has been experienced by most of us that a driver can look directly at you and still pull out.

Your right about the 6th sense, sometimes you just know what they're going to do before they do.

High beam always on is a bit much alright. My lights are always on, but I've a fazer foxeye and the full beam is blindingly bright and rarely used.
Hi viz vest and weave slightly in the lane to be visible and ALWAYS be ready.

As I drive a car too I've been lucky so far to have a sense of when a driver on the road isn't paying enough attention and hasn't seen me.

Sometimes the drivers face will tell you that they haven't seen you and you can prepare for them to do something stupid well in advance of their front wheels moving

Breezin

schaffer wrote: »

No amount of safety gear will stop you getting killed or seriously killed if you do not drive for the current conditions and don't speed.

If those are the options, think I'd prefer to be just killed! :-)

Mjolnir

Breezin wrote: »

If those are the options, think I'd prefer to be just killed! :-)

How do we differentiate between killed and seriously killed do ya reckon ?
I'd agree though seriously killed sounds rough haha

zubair

Mjolnir wrote: »

How do we differentiate between killed and seriously killed do ya reckon ?
I'd agree though seriously killed sounds rough haha

The official difference is if they bring you to the morgue on a stretcher or in a bucket.

Max Headroom

And always remember..That last car you blasted by, could be your only witness....;)

bladespin

Max Headroom wrote: »

And always remember..That last car you blasted by, could be your only witness....;)

Or the one who helps pull you out of a hedge (or not).

zubair

Max Headroom wrote: »

And always remember..That last car you blasted by, could be your only witness....;)

Haha, so true.