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Reseeding

  • 02-04-2021 6:12pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 184 ✭✭


    We’ve disc harrowed a field and have grass seed bought. Just wondering what people’s opinions are - should we get the seed in before the frost and wintry weather or should we hold out till the end of next week?


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,611 ✭✭✭Mooooo


    The risk would be if it shoots and hard frosts come then and kill it off. There is a chance a second cold spell after this one according to MT so I would wait personally. Others may differ. If it is cold for 2 weeks you wont lose much in terms of growth out of it anyway. Ground conditions in a few weeks would be the other worry on the the other side then


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,104 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    It makes very little difference. Grass seed will not germinate for a week to 10 days maybe longer. Even in ideal conditions it takes warm moist conditions. After the hard weather you might really wet weather and not be able to.plant it for 2-3 weeks.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭epfff


    I disked once today but have no grass seed. Plan on letting this spel pass and hopefully get it in end of next week. Anything that comes after that should be OK.

    Did you put slurry out before disking?
    I didn't but it was in me head.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,104 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    If ground is tilled weed seeds will be starting to get a head start on grass seed. Even if you till it again before setting grass seed any weed seeds that have not germinated will have the advantage of being ready to germinate.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 184 ✭✭nqtfarmer


    Looks like we’ll put it out till late next week. Should be enough grass seed to cover for any weeds and of course post emergent spray too. Couldn’t risk frost and cold coming in like they’re saying. Didn’t put slurry out on it as we will hold what we have till silage is cut. I would have put out farm yard manure on it only it’s still v fresh


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭epfff


    If ground is tilled weed seeds will be starting to get a head start on grass seed. Even if you till it again before setting grass seed any weed seeds that have not germinated will have the advantage of being ready to germinate.

    Good point
    What I disked was redstart stumble that I burned off. The spray looked to have worked well but when up ckose some docks seem to have survived.
    Ground was wetter than I expected.
    I was in between what to sow so I didn't order grass seed. I will have it Tuesday so its disk twice more the next fine day and in with the seed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,355 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    epfff wrote: »
    Good point
    What I disked was redstart stumble that I burned off. The spray looked to have worked well but when up ckose some docks seem to have survived.
    Ground was wetter than I expected.
    I was in between what to sow so I didn't order grass seed. I will have it Tuesday so its disk twice more the next fine day and in with the seed.

    How long ago did you spray off


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,355 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    It makes very little difference. Grass seed will not germinate for a week to 10 days maybe longer. Even in ideal conditions it takes warm moist conditions. After the hard weather you might really wet weather and not be able to.plant it for 2-3 weeks.

    I've had grass appear in 3 to 5 days in good conditions. This time of year it could take the seed a good 10 days


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,355 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    Mooooo wrote: »
    The risk would be if it shoots and hard frosts come then and kill it off. There is a chance a second cold spell after this one according to MT so I would wait personally. Others may differ. If it is cold for 2 weeks you wont lose much in terms of growth out of it anyway. Ground conditions in a few weeks would be the other worry on the the other side then
    Ah I won't worry about it much. The frost that come this time of year aren't too severe really. I always stitch the winterage around the 20th March and it has never failed yet.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,104 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Biggest problem with spraying off is to speed up the process many increase the amount of roundup in the spray. Increasing the strength actually ends up killing leaf before the spray us absorbed into the root. 1=25-1.5l of roundup/acre is a strong enough rate to burn off for reseeding.

    Slava Ukrainii



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,402 ✭✭✭Jb1989


    Biggest problem with spraying off is to speed up the process many increase the amount of roundup in the spray. Increasing the strength actually ends up killing leaf before the spray us absorbed into the root. 1=25-1.5l of roundup/acre is a strong enough rate to burn off for reseeding.

    Doesn't go for rush killer. Have done heavy rushes with the standard dose and some with a heavier rate. Always took the heavier rate.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,355 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    Biggest problem with spraying off is to speed up the process many increase the amount of roundup in the spray. Increasing the strength actually ends up killing leaf before the spray us absorbed into the root. 1=25-1.5l of roundup/acre is a strong enough rate to burn off for reseeding.

    Its time bass. To fully kill tap root weeds like docks you need to give it a good three weeks to get through the root system. A dock could have a root 2 foot deep


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭epfff


    Reggie. wrote: »
    How long ago did you spray off

    15 days ago.
    My theory is that the spray has got to the roots after 10 days. If it was the first tilling I'd have left it another week to allow sod decompose more.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,355 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    epfff wrote: »
    15 days ago.
    My theory is that the spray has got to the roots after 10 days. If it was the first tilling I'd have left it another week to allow sod decompose more.

    Nah. The spray crowd say give it 3 weeks. I've often reseeded ground after a 10 days of sprayed off and it would be alive with docks after the powerharrow. You turn 1 root into 20 docks then


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,104 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Reggie I agree it needs time as well but a tillage lad said to me that going two litres and over can cause the root system to shut down as the leaf dies too fast. He also recommended that you use a sticker similar to what you use with rushers. This helps break down the wax on the plant and the spray adheres to the leaves better. Roundup bioactive is virtually that and ammonia added to the spray

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,011 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.


    We are on the sea s edge and even we are very slow sowing grass in April.you could often get a cutting wind that severely stunt grass seed.i think grass seed does best in in May or august


  • Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭FeelTheBern


    Looking for some advice - not very familiar with spraying or reseeding as mainly old pasture here. Have about 30 acres with a lot of dandelions in the grass (as well as the usual other weeds including a reasonable share of docks). Had meant to go about spaying them this year but forgot until I saw some yellow heads appearing today - missed a good chance over past few weeks.

    Two parts really -

    1 - about 20 acres (including silage ground) has a fair share of dandelions but not covered with them. Was going to try to get them sprayed next week - would it work ok to spray in the cold weather that is forecast and what would be most economical spray to use?

    2 - around 10 acres of old pasture is covered with dandelions. If I spray now there will be a lot of bare ground left - would it work to stitch in new grass later in May to fill it out? I was also thinking could leave it for a while until grazed and spray off to reseed fully but imagine lot of the dandelions would have already seeded by then and also stone very close to the top of ground here so a drought early in summer quite possible.

    Any advice appreciated!


  • Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭locha


    Anyone here experience of direct reseeding. I.e spraying off the grass and then direct seeding no harrowing/disking etc. I understand that the machine puts slug pets down and the grass is not thick to begin with. Have 15 acres to do so would be a big enough saving. Was quoted 70 an acre.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,215 ✭✭✭Dunedin


    locha wrote: »
    Anyone here experience of direct reseeding. I.e spraying off the grass and then direct seeding no harrowing/disking etc. I understand that the machine puts slug pets down and the grass is not thick to begin with. Have 15 acres to do so would be a big enough saving. Was quoted 70 an acre.

    Reggie is your man.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,355 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    Dunedin wrote: »
    Reggie is your man.

    Oh the pressure


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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,355 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    locha wrote: »
    Anyone here experience of direct reseeding. I.e spraying off the grass and then direct seeding no harrowing/disking etc. I understand that the machine puts slug pets down and the grass is not thick to begin with. Have 15 acres to do so would be a big enough saving. Was quoted 70 an acre.

    Are you drilling or stitching?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,980 Mod ✭✭✭✭Genghis Cant


    Reggie. wrote: »
    Are you drilling or stitching?

    About 20 acres sprayed off here.
    If you didn't mind , for my benefit and I'm sure a few more could you set out the next steps in chronological order. In both drilling and stitching if it wasn't too much trouble.
    Thanks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,104 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    I am not sure if I had sprayed off land I would stitch into ground. Cheapest way is to get a lad with an independent disc harrow. Two runs should cost about 50-60/acres. If it is level after the discing (and it usually is) you can spread seed direct on top. If not a light run of a chain harrow.
    It is possible to spread grass seed with a fertlizer spreader. Hardest part is setting it up. Then roll it twice. A bag of granlime / acre is always a good idea with any reseeding. Slug pellets are not critical with this method but I usually put out a few kg with the seed

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,355 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    About 20 acres sprayed off here.
    If you didn't mind , for my benefit and I'm sure a few more could you set out the next steps in chronological order. In both drilling and stitching if it wasn't too much trouble.
    Thanks.

    Right. I'm gonna be abit biased here over drilling as I don't do it as I don't like it.

    Disc and powerharrow would be the the guaranteed job for grass striking as the ground is "blackened". Thats the term we use. When reseeding the blacker the field is the better soil contact you'll get. Also you'll see results quicker as you'll see the smallest haze of green contrasted against the bare soil. Only thing here would be that ground can be tender for a year or two so leave your big heavy slurry tankers in the yard for about 12 months. Your only working the top 2 to 4 inches of ground but you will find stones.

    Drilling is where you cut a slot in the ground and drop the seed into it. Works for some people but I am seeing mixed results here. Seed does get through any trash but I do believe that the slot in the ground is the issue here. The following roller can't seem to close in the slot after the drill. I'm beginning to hear of lads putting the guttler roller on drills to help with this. Also the grass is left in lines which I don't personally like (leave that to the tillage lads). Reason I don't like the lines as it leaves too much room for weeds to grow between them and its wasted ground imo. Slug pellets are needed for this as if the slot isn't closed then Mr slug can get into the slot and travel the length of the field hoovering up the seed and stay nice and safe in the slot also. Also I've seen the slot widen in really dry weather to nearly over an inch or two and the next heavy rain washes the seed out of it as it acts like a river bed. Now these are what I've seem myself as the 2 things I go in after most often with the guttler are drills and seed barrows. I've never seen the lines of a drill fill up either. Lad local here had it done 3 years ago and still lines in the field. I had to stitch it to fill up the gaps but lads will have their preference.

    Stitching would be your guttler green master or similar machine. Ideal setup would be that the contractor has the front ripper also. This means your getting 2 runs in one go. The front rippers job is to remove as much trash as possible and blacken the soil for the green master behind. The less trash in the field the better for this machine. Most lads would spray and cut silage which leave the field very bare or lets sheep do the eating. Either that or leave the grass about 3 weeks so that its well dead. You could use pellets here if ya want to as it depends on what cover the slugs have after the field is done. Slugs need to hide during the day but they could be an issue. I find this the best all rounder as your not messing with the soil too much but its advisable to add a little more kg per acre just to be safe. You shouldn't rip up too many stones. Grass will strike the same as the powerharrow its just you might not see it as quickly due to the trash thats left on the field. As the grass will have to come on abit to rise above the yellow of the field.



    Pellets are usually about 2kgs an acre. We normally mix it per bag. Say a bag into the hopper then a kg of pellets and mix it up..

    When spraying off the longer you leave it the better. At least 2 weeks or ideally 3. Have been sent into fields before this time and some amount of docks appeared. Now they were sorted with post emergence but still to see them spread was mad.

    Stitching with the guttler seems to be getting very popular this year. One fella in the curragh racecourse was even quoting me about avoiding the release of carbon so go figure on that one. So no powerharrow or plough allowed.


    Anyone else want to know anything else just shout. Either here or PM. These are my own opinions on what I've seen on my travels and they will no doubt differ from other peoples.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,355 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    I am not sure if I had sprayed off land I would stitch into ground. Cheapest way is to get a lad with an independent disc harrow. Two runs should cost about 50-60/acres. If it is level after the discing (and it usually is) you can spread seed direct on top. If not a light run of a chain harrow.
    It is possible to spread grass seed with a fertlizer spreader. Hardest part is setting it up. Then roll it twice. A bag of granlime / acre is always a good idea with any reseeding. Slug pellets are not critical with this method but I usually put out a few kg with the seed

    Dont know what type of land you have bass but in the Midlands you'd definitely need the powerharrow after a disc


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,104 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Reggie. wrote: »
    Dont know what type of land you have bass but in the Midlands you'd definitely need the powerharrow after a disc

    There is 1-2 things about discing. You need to graze the ground bare. That means mob graze it. If you are in dairying then this may not be appropriate. You need to let the grass die back for at least 14+ days before discing.

    When you disc you need an independent disc as opposed to the old traditional.disc harrow. You need speed when doing it. Second run must be at a an angle to first run not accross it. Usually second run should be out of line with the he first about 10'&20' along the run if a square 4-5 acre field.

    Ya land need to be dry any lad that has sprayed off land now and is going tilling it has dryish land I expect. You may need to give it a day or two to dry and run a chain harrow on it. Direct stitching would not work as well.on my ground and would probably work well on wetter ground. So ya you have to take ground conditions into account.

    Remember grass in other senario's us a vigorous weed. All you need do is give it fairy adequate conditions and it will thrive an extra kg or two of grass seed solves s lot of reseeding issues. This costs 5/kg it's better than spending another 50+ on tilling

    Remember the three R's when reseeding roll, RL and roll again

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,355 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    There is 1-2 things about discing. You need to graze the ground bare. That means mob graze it. If you are in dairying then this may not be appropriate. You need to let the grass die back for at least 14+ days before discing.

    When you disc you need an independent disc as opposed to the old traditional.disc harrow. You need speed when doing it. Second run must be at a an angle to first run not accross it. Usually second run should be out of line with the he first about 10'&20' along the run if a square 4-5 acre field.

    Ya land need to be dry any lad that has sprayed off land now and is going tilling it has dryish land I expect. You may need to give it a day or two to dry and run a chain harrow on it. Direct stitching would not work as well.on my ground and would probably work well on wetter ground. So ya you have to take ground conditions into account.

    Remember grass in other senario's us a vigorous weed. All you need do is give it fairy adequate conditions and it will thrive an extra kg or two of grass seed solves s lot of reseeding issues. This costs 5/kg it's better than spending another 50+ on tilling

    Remember the three R's when reseeding roll, RL and roll again

    I know all above bass but only soil i seen to break up well enough after the disc would be the black peaty soil. Heavy soil in the Midlands i find needs the extra work as it drys like concrete but lumps when wet.

    True about the ground as in wet vs dry but also remember what your sowing aswell. I've to sow mixed species in that curragh place and its sandy soil. Dry ground suits the mixed species better


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,806 ✭✭✭GrasstoMilk


    Waste of time discing with out power Harrow after
    You'll only have clods
    You need a fine seed bed to get the best strike possible with grass seed

    2 runs of a horcsh disc and run of power Harrow with seed is how we do it here


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,215 ✭✭✭Dunedin


    Waste of time discing with out power Harrow after
    You'll only have clods
    You need a fine seed bed to get the best strike possible with grass seed

    2 runs of a horcsh disc and run of power Harrow with seed is how we do it here

    I’ve reseeded a few different ways here in past 3 years and would agree 100% on the above as it’s proved by far the best results for me. Midlands area as referenced by Reggie.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,355 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    Waste of time discing with out power Harrow after
    You'll only have clods
    You need a fine seed bed to get the best strike possible with grass seed

    2 runs of a horcsh disc and run of power Harrow with seed is how we do it here

    Thats the way i do it outside of stitching with the guttler

    Powerharrow still king around here


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