Two nations one team!

downcow

Five Eighth wrote: »

Maybe...but I think you may be giving many of those who do fly the six counties flag the benefit of the doubt.

https://www.sportsfile.com/id/018578/

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

He wants the British flag to represent both communities in the north of Ireland. How is that 'moderate'?
.

I said no such thing.
I said irfu flag or else both flags and people can choose which one represents them

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

I didn’t demand anything

You pontificate on here as if you speak for NI but you don't. You speak for Unionism and you speak as if Unionism owns NI, it doesn't.

I recommend you make peace with your Irish neighbours in the north before telling everyone else in Ireland what they should do to accommodate you.

downcow wrote: »

I said no such thing.
I said irfu flag or else both flags and people can choose which one represents them

Both flags meaning the Union Flag to represent people of NI? The Union flag represents a minority of the population in the north and is unacceptable to Nationalists.

As mentioned above - come up with agreed-upon symbols and flags and have them represent everyone.

Fionn1952

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well that’s his country. I don’t like ulster unionists much either but guys like you who can’t even allow the other side a flag, because reasons, aren’t going to unite a football team never mind the country.

Do people like myself, from predominantly (albeit mixed heritage) Irish/Nationalist backgrounds from the North, who actually played and have an interest in rugby get a say in the matter in your world? Or is it just Unionists who don't actually give a toss about the sport and don't actually support the team you're interested in placating?

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

DC and the other 'moderates' needs to have a chat with their nationalist neighbours, among others, and come to an agreement on what flag will represent everyone there while the place still exists at least.

I’m all for that. New ni flag new anthem etc. Most unionists and most nationalists o believe would go for that, but republicans would be most resistant as they dread the ni identity that is getting stronger and more cross community year on year

Five Eighth

downcow wrote: »

https://www.sportsfile.com/id/018578/

So? The six county flag does not represent Ulster rugby. Also, your photograph is from 1999. The world has moved on and so has those who support Ulster rugby.

Junkyard Tom

I watch a fair bit of Rugby myself and shout for Ulster when they're playing (except against Munster). Ulster are also seeking to expand the game into traditionally Catholic/Nationalist schools.

Good luck with that if young people have to deal with even more Unionist iconography than already exists around Rugby.

Five Eighth

A vignette. I like rugby and frequent a good few AIL games. I was in Armagh and went to see the local rugby team (City of Armagh RFC) playing a play-off game for promotion. Armagh won. Then, I couldn't believe my ears, the entire squad and supporters burst into singing 'The Boys of the County Armagh' (I would, maybe mistakenly, have associated this song with the GAA) with not one six county flag in sight.

trashcan

downcow wrote: »

Thanks.
But I saw a wee clip of the jack charlton programme the other night and southerners were saying jack reclaimed the tricolour for them as the ira use of it had left the ashamed of it (that’s not verbatim), so that’s where I got that belief.

Yeah I think you are right. I reckon most people are fairly content with ni and Roi both existing and people supporting who they want

It was Larry Mullen of U2 who said that about the flag. it’s certainly something I’ve heard from others as well, but I’ve always thought it was a nonsense. The tricolour is our national flag, and no group has any special claim on it. I certainly never felt ashamed of it because of the IRA. Anyway, there is too much emphasis on flags and anthems if you ask me.

downcow

Five Eighth wrote: »

A vignette. I like rugby and frequent a good few AIL games. I was in Armagh and went to see the local rugby team (City of Armagh RFC) playing a play-off game for promotion. Armagh won. Then, I couldn't believe my ears, the entire squad and supporters burst into singing 'The Boys of the County Armagh' (I would, maybe mistakenly, have associated this song with the GAA) with not one six county flag in sight.

Why would there be a six county flag at a one county game. That’s just rediculous.
The boys from County Armagh had just won the game, why wouldn't they sing the song?

downcow

trashcan wrote: »

It was Larry Mullen of U2 who said that about the flag. it’s certainly something I’ve heard from others as well, but I’ve always thought it was a nonsense. The tricolour is our national flag, and no group has any special claim on it. I certainly never felt ashamed of it because of the IRA. Anyway, there is too much emphasis on flags and anthems if you ask me.

Agree 100% and I’m glad to hear it is not accurate.
Neither the tricolour or the Ulster flag should be allowed to be soiled by the paramilitaries on either side.
Sinn Fein have had the local towns around me draped in tricolours this weekend and tbh it’s nationalists that are complaining, my community aren’t interested

downcow

Five Eighth wrote: »

So? The six county flag does not represent Ulster rugby. Also, your photograph is from 1999. The world has moved on and so has those who support Ulster rugby.

Where did I say it represented Ulster rugby?
I correcting some one who implied the yellow flag was more popular the white one at Ulster games.
I am consistent and I think both flags should be very welcome at Ulster games.
But I know little about Ulster rugby, just what I see on tv

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

And this is the problem, it's not his 'country'. The north is no longer a Unionist fiefdom where they get to lord it over the rest of the population.

DC and the other 'moderates' needs to have a chat with their nationalist neighbours, among others, and come to an agreement on what flag will represent everyone there while the place still exists at least.

It is my country. And it is also my catholic neighbours country. You are playing on words again. I would not react like you if a southerner talks about ‘their’ country

breezy1985

trashcan wrote: »

It was Larry Mullen of U2 who said that about the flag. it’s certainly something I’ve heard from others as well, but I’ve always thought it was a nonsense. The tricolour is our national flag, and no group has any special claim on it. I certainly never felt ashamed of it because of the IRA. Anyway, there is too much emphasis on flags and anthems if you ask me.

That reclaim the flag thing is revisionist nonsense it was never lost to be reclaimed. They are superimposing a story about the English flag for the sake of drama

Lucy8080

downcow wrote: »

It is my country. And it is also my catholic neighbours country. You are playing on words again. I would not react like you if a southerner talks about ‘their’ country

I would see it as "Our Island", my protestant neighbours would see it as such ,too.

Democracy ,respected, would have confirmed that position in the past...as well as today. The majority of the inhabitants of this Island would like this Island to be one .

downcow

Lucy8080 wrote: »

I would see it as "Our Island", my protestant neighbours would see it as such ,too.

Democracy ,respected, would have confirmed that position in the past...as well as today. The majority of the inhabitants of this Island would like this Island to be one .

Lucy you are welcome to see it as you wish, but I wonder how you would feel if someone in London described GB as their island. It is an incredibly arrogant statement, but thankfully your government dropped that arrogant aggressive claim some years ago and the world has moved on.
I am curious what you mean by ‘our island’ and how you would replicate that in eg Canada? Are you suggesting the native inhabitants descendants would rule over the rest?
Or would you move the internationally recognised national border because the neighbouring country wants it moved?

Lucy8080

downcow wrote: »

Lucy you are welcome to see it as you wish, but I wonder how you would feel if someone in London described GB as their island. It is an incredibly arrogant statement, but thankfully your government dropped that arrogant aggressive claim some years ago and the world has moved on.
I am curious what you mean by ‘our island’ and how you would replicate that in eg Canada? Are you suggesting the native inhabitants descendants would rule over the rest?
Or would you move the internationally recognised national border because the neighbouring country wants it moved?

Would you rather the phrase" agreed Island"?

Are you a supporter of Scottish Independence (your post above surely could not oppose it)? B.T.W. , my post said "Our Island", your post alluded to folks in London claiming G.B. as "their" Island.

Have you noticed the difference? If not , re-read until you have !

Junkyard Tom

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

And this is the problem, it's not his 'country'. The north is no longer a Unionist fiefdom where they get to lord it over the rest of the population.

DC and the other 'moderates' needs to have a chat with their nationalist neighbours, among others, and come to an agreement on what flag will represent everyone there while the place still exists at least.

No it is his country, that is the UK, right now. In terms of football teams that loyalty is for NI, as he said. You can't really force people into this.

Fionn1952

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Do people like myself, from predominantly (albeit mixed heritage) Irish/Nationalist backgrounds from the North, who actually played and have an interest in rugby get a say in the matter in your world? Or is it just Unionists who don't actually give a toss about the sport and don't actually support the team you're interested in placating?

Sure, you can have your view too. Where did I say you couldn't have? Also I didn't really say anything about rugby except to say I hadn't thought about the tricolour issue.

downcow

Lucy8080 wrote: »

Would you rather the phrase" agreed Island"?

Are you a supporter of Scottish Independence (your post above surely could not oppose it)? B.T.W. , my post said "Our Island", your post alluded to folks in London claiming G.B. as "their" Island.

Have you noticed the difference? If not , re-read until you have !

So you be happy if boris said the mainland was an agreed island ie agreed by the majority with no self determination for Scotland or Wales?

I personally hope Scotland stay in the UK for generations to come, but I absolutely uphold their right to self determination. So if they choose to go, they will certainly go with my blessing and remain good friends

‘Our island’ / ‘their island’ - you are just being silly again to deflect

Lucy8080

downcow wrote: »

So you be happy if boris said the mainland was an agreed island ie agreed by the majority with no self determination for Scotland or Wales?

I personally hope Scotland stay in the UK for generations to come, but I absolutely uphold their right to self determination. So if they choose to go, they will certainly go with my blessing and remain good friends

‘Our island’ / ‘their island’ - you are just being silly again to deflect

"Their Island" was a phrase you introduced. What is wrong with Britain being an agreed Island?

I think you are arguing with yourself now!

Edit: Contemplate what the word "Agreed" means. It is not a dictate that "Boris" has within his gift.

downcow

Lucy8080 wrote: »

"Their Island" was a phrase you introduced. What is wrong with Britain being an agreed Island?

I think you are arguing with yourself now!

Edit: Contemplate what the word "Agreed" means. It is not a dictate that "Boris" has within his gift.

I was trying to shortcut proper grammar and well you know it.
Let’s try again using your words.

Would you think it would be appropriate if someone in London referred to GB as ‘our island’ irrespective of whether scottish people thought it was appropriate. In the same way as you are referring to ‘our island’ and including my country??

Lucy8080

downcow wrote: »

I was trying to shortcut proper grammar and well you know it.
Let’s try again using your words.

Would you think it would be appropriate if someone in London referred to GB as ‘our island’ irrespective of whether scottish people thought it was appropriate. In the same way as you are referring to ‘our island’ and including my country??

Do folks in London not live on an Island called Britain. What other Island could they refer to as the Island they live on?

What Island do you live on?

downcow

Lucy8080 wrote: »

Do folks in London not live on an Island called Britain. What other Island could they refer to as the Island they live on?

What Island do you live on?

I think the idea of discussion is that we try to answer the question we are asked instead of continually avoiding them. There is quite a list of questions now that you have avoided. So why not try and answer one before asking more

....and yes they do live on the island of Britain

Lucy8080

downcow wrote: »

I think the idea of discussion is that we try to answer the question we are asked instead of continually avoiding them. There is quite a list of questions now that you have avoided. So why not try and answer one before asking more

....and yes they do live on the island of Britain

Projecting again, Downcow.

You have not answered the numerous questions about Windsor Park(1993) , You have been informed that players and journalists can be qouted in a way that would put your "position" to bed. There is even a stage play about that night , it is called "A Night In November".

The G.F.A. allows for the people in N.I. to vote to remain or leave the U.K.

You have said You would respect the Scottish People voting out of the U.K. It would not change what "island " they live on.

Do you see!

If the folks in N.I. vote themselves out of the U.K. , their Island status will still be them same as it was before!

Do you see!

Five Eighth

downcow wrote: »

Why would there be a six county flag at a one county game. That’s just rediculous.
The boys from County Armagh had just won the game, why wouldn't they sing the song?

Flags.

It is common at rugby clubs throughout Ireland to fly flags on match day. Usually positioned on flag poles and/or on top of club houses/pavilions. As stated no six counites flag was evident on that day.

If Ulster rugby are charged with developing the game in Ulster i.e. the nine counties, how do you expect them to achieve this goal by insisting on the display of the six counties flag? How do you expect Nationalists in Northern Ireland and citizens of the three Ulster counties in Ireland to react to the six counties flag being flown to represent them?

Singing of ‘The Boys of The County Armagh’

I was surprised that all participated in a song that places Armagh in the context of a 32 county Ireland. Here are the lyrics:

There's one fair county in Ireland
with memories so glorious and grand
where nature has lavished its bounty
it's the orchard of Erin's green land

I love her cathedral and city
once founded by Patrick so true
and it bears in the heart of it's bosom the ashes of Brian Boru

CHORUS:
It's my own Irish home
far across the foam
although I've often left it
in foreign lands to roam
no matter where I wander
through cities near or far
sure, my heart's at home in old Ireland
in the County of Armagh

I've travelled that part of the county through
New Town, Fork Hill, Crossmaglen
Around by the gap of Mountnorris
and home by Blackwater again
Where the girls are so gay and so hearty
None fairer in Erin Go Bragh
But where are the boys that can court them
Like the boys from the county Armagh?
CHORUS

As you can read, Brian Boru is mentioned in the lyrics and he was the High King of All Ireland.

A poster from the Unionist persuasion made the following statements on another thread:

“We don’t use counties in NI anyway.”

“…I literally never identify where I am from based on county.”

Another poster stated:

…”Outside GAA circles, people tend to identify with their nearest town if their village is especially tiny - eg Cookstown, Ballymena etc.”

The fact that a rugby club in NI won a game and sang in celebration of their win in the context of their county suggests that the above statements are incorrect.

downcow

Lucy8080 wrote: »

Projecting again, Downcow.

You have not answered the numerous questions about Windsor Park(1993) , You have been informed that players and journalists can be qouted in a way that would put your "position" to bed. There is even a stage play about that night , it is called "A Night In November".

The G.F.A. allows for the people in N.I. to vote to remain or leave the U.K.

You have said You would respect the Scottish People voting out of the U.K. It would not change what "island " they live on.

Do you see!

If the folks in N.I. vote themselves out of the U.K. , their Island status will still be them same as it was before!

Do you see!

More questions and no answers!

And now you have downgraded the television evidence you said clearly showed what you say went on at Windsor and you are now offering journalistic reports and a fictional play. You couldn’t make it up.

It is impossible to disprove something that doesn’t exist. It’s like asking someone to prove god doesn’t exist.
You produce your tv evidence of the game and we’ll go from there showing eg billy b conducting the sectarian singing.
Or could it be it’s all lies?

Lucy8080

downcow wrote: »

More questions and no answers!

And now you have downgraded the television evidence you said clearly showed what you say went on at Windsor and you are now offering journalistic reports and a fictional play. You couldn’t make it up.

It is impossible to disprove something that doesn’t exist. It’s like asking someone to prove good doesn’t exist.
You produce your tv evidence of the game and we’ll go from there showing eg billy b conducting the sectarian singing.
Or could it be it’s all lies?

I think you are making it up as you go along. "More questions no answers!" (according to you)....have a look at the post you "quoted" above, from myself....point out the question if you can see one!

Is this just a wind up now?<<<<<<<<< That is actually a question ( if it helps you out ).

Lucy8080

downcow wrote: »

More questions and no answers!

And now you have downgraded the television evidence you said clearly showed what you say went on at Windsor and you are now offering journalistic reports and a fictional play. You couldn’t make it up.

It is impossible to disprove something that doesn’t exist. It’s like asking someone to prove god doesn’t exist.
You produce your tv evidence of the game and we’ll go from there showing eg billy b conducting the sectarian singing.
Or could it be it’s all lies?

Accredited journalists/players and a subsequent stage play are all based on something that cannot be proved? Is that your position?

If it is, we may all give up and let you have at yourself and whatever alternative world you feel you have encountered.

downcow

Five Eighth wrote: »

Flags.

It is common at rugby clubs throughout Ireland to fly flags on match day. Usually positioned on flag poles and/or on top of club houses/pavilions. As stated no six counites flag was evident on that day.

If Ulster rugby are charged with developing the game in Ulster i.e. the nine counties, how do you expect them to achieve this goal by insisting on the display of the six counties flag? How do you expect Nationalists in Northern Ireland and citizens of the three Ulster counties in Ireland to react to the six counties flag being flown to represent them?

Singing of ‘The Boys of The County Armagh’

I was surprised that all participated in a song that places Armagh in the context of a 32 county Ireland. Here are the lyrics:

There's one fair county in Ireland
with memories so glorious and grand
where nature has lavished its bounty
it's the orchard of Erin's green land

I love her cathedral and city
once founded by Patrick so true
and it bears in the heart of it's bosom the ashes of Brian Boru

CHORUS:
It's my own Irish home
far across the foam
although I've often left it
in foreign lands to roam
no matter where I wander
through cities near or far
sure, my heart's at home in old Ireland
in the County of Armagh

I've travelled that part of the county through
New Town, Fork Hill, Crossmaglen
Around by the gap of Mountnorris
and home by Blackwater again
Where the girls are so gay and so hearty
None fairer in Erin Go Bragh
But where are the boys that can court them
Like the boys from the county Armagh?
CHORUS

As you can read, Brian Boru is mentioned in the lyrics and he was the High King of All Ireland.

A poster from the Unionist persuasion made the following statements on another thread:

“We don’t use counties in NI anyway.”

“…I literally never identify where I am from based on county.”

Another poster stated:

…”Outside GAA circles, people tend to identify with their nearest town if their village is especially tiny - eg Cookstown, Ballymena etc.”

The fact that a rugby club in NI won a game and sang in celebration of their win in the context of their county suggests that the above statements are incorrect.

I find that all very hard to follow.
If it is any help to you, my closest wee loyalist flute band from the village of Maghera is called the ‘Star of Down’ so I don’t know the point you are making

Lucy like evidence https://m.facebook.com/SODMaghera1975/videos/2774651405936172/