Anxiety, depression etc MOD NOTE IN OP 28.03.21

Sunny Disposition

Years ago we didn’t know much about mental illness, but now it’s everywhere. People we used to just think were a bit nervous probably had anxiety, some we thought were lazy were deeply depressed. Just wondering what percentage would ye say have some minor mental illness, serious enough to require some medicine occasionally or the odd day off work, but not enough to keep you out of the workforce say?

Mod

Can everyone contributing to this thread please bear in mind that medical advice should not be solicited nor provided on the site.

Separately, but in addition to that; please bear in mind that people may be sharing details on the topic that are personal and quite sensitive. If you are going to dismiss those experiences without good reason and/or without some level of empathy, it is the definition of 'being a dick' and will be actioned accordingly.

Samuel T. Cogley

Thought the figure was 1 in 4 of us experience some sort of mental health issue in our lifetime. Would think its higher tbh.

Interesting piece on Al Jazeera this morning with a claim that every $1 spent on mental health treatment for anxiety and depression yields $5 to the economy.

External Association

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Years ago we didn’t know much about mental illness, but now it’s everywhere. People we used to just think were a bit nervous probably had anxiety, some we thought were lazy were deeply depressed. Just wondering what percentage would ye say have some minor mental illness, serious enough to require some medicine occasionally or the odd day off work, but not enough to keep you out of the workforce say?

A fair percentage. Of course the old phrase 'they were suffering from their nerves' was used for the more obvious suffering poor souls. Rough times. All hush hushed, family secrets.

bodice ripper

I have suffered from depression for at least the last ten years. I desperately don't want it to keep me out of the workforce, but there is no pretending it doesn't make it tougher. The insomnia alone would be a major issue. And the problem definitely isn't that I am lazy; I become agitated from sitting still or staying in the house.

The stress is such that my hair is falling out.

TP_CM

We need to look at mental health much like physical health. It's about keeping mentally fit. There are exercises we should be doing on a daily basis, and if we have a specific injury which isn't going away by itself, we should go and get professional advice to fix it. Having a mental disability shouldn't stop someone from living a decent life, much like a lot of physical abilities don't anymore.

Information is brain food. Feeding the brain things like instagram, facebook and biased news articles is like eating mcdonalds every day. We need to feed our brains with something more nutritious to give it a fighting chance.

Pretty much every single overweight person knows how to lose weight. Yet, hardly any depressed individual knows how to find hope. It shows we're not doing near enough to educate people that the brain needs looking after just like our bodies. Most teens these days probably don't even realise that staring at instagram and porn all day is the brain's version of eating fast food.

Sunny Disposition

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Thought the figure was 1 in 4 of us experience some sort of mental health issue in our lifetime. Would think its higher tbh.

Interesting piece on Al Jazeera this morning with a claim that every $1 spent on mental health treatment for anxiety and depression yields $5 to the economy.

Would say it’s way higher than that too, could be one in four over the course of a year maybe.

Sunny Disposition

bodice ripper wrote: »

I have suffered from depression for at least the last ten years. I desperately don't want it to keep me out of the workforce, but there is no pretending it doesn't make it tougher. The insomnia alone would be a major issue. And the problem definitely isn't that I am lazy; I become agitated from sitting still or staying in the house.

The stress is such that my hair is falling out.

I want to wish you well, keep battling, keep doing what you can to help yourself and you’ll eventually progress.

smurgen

bodice ripper wrote: »

I have suffered from depression for at least the last ten years. I desperately don't want it to keep me out of the workforce, but there is no pretending it doesn't make it tougher. The insomnia alone would be a major issue. And the problem definitely isn't that I am lazy; I become agitated from sitting still or staying in the house.

The stress is such that my hair is falling out.

There's only so much you can do. Try your best. Then don't beat yourself up. We're all dealt different hands and there's nothing we can do about it sometimes.
Keep the chin up.

External Association

bodice ripper wrote: »

I have suffered from depression for at least the last ten years. I desperately don't want it to keep me out of the workforce, but there is no pretending it doesn't make it tougher. The insomnia alone would be a major issue. And the problem definitely isn't that I am lazy; I become agitated from sitting still or staying in the house.

The stress is such that my hair is falling out.

I've suffered with insomnia during lockdown. WFH and lost routine a bit.

Richard Hillman

Keeping your sleep regulated is a big big factor. I know its easier said than done but if you get off kilter it will affect you badly.

I know that if I don't excercise during the day, I won't sleep early.

Also jot down a to-do list for the next day. Do everything you can to knock them all off.

This is just day to day stuff to keep you from putting your head under a Luas tram. Overall, most of us are f**ked for the future. There's very little to be hopeful of.

External Association

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Keeping your sleep regulated is a big big factor. I know its easier said than done but if you get off kilter it will affect you badly.

I know that if I don't excercise during the day, I won't sleep early.

Also jot down a to-do list for the next day. Do everything you can to knock them all off.

This is just day to day stuff to keep you from putting your head under a Luas tram. Overall, most of us are f**ked for the future. There's very little to be hopeful of.

I'm exercising well practically every day. Just going to bed at 2-3am and up around 11am. I get all my work done but I'm not getting the good early daylight hours.

Leg End Reject

While it's great that mental health is being noticed it's important not to over-diagnose.

It's normal to feel down, or even depressed, in response to life experiences like grief, a relationship breakdown or trauma, and stressed with the same or even work. These are normal occurances that have to be worked through and shouldn't be medicated.

Clinical depression or anxiety are very real, but different conditions that very often require treatment. This should be normalised and anyone experiencing these should be comfortable talking about it and seeking help.

Unfortunately, mental health services here are under resourced and that has likely been exacerbated due to Covid.

I'm on a fairly level keel with regards to mental health, but have seen others struggle and be faced with scorn or indifference. I think that is slowly changing for the better though.

External Association

Leg End Reject wrote: »

Clinical depression or anxiety are very real, but different conditions that very often require treatment.

You know, 100% when the real thing hits alright. The symptoms can be extremely severe. And I'm not even talking suicidal thoughts here. Panic attacks, fatigue where you can't shower, inability to function as in buy something in a local shop, over salivating, palpitations, breathlessness, total fear of the present and future, vomiting..the works. I don't think anyone who has never had depression or a nervous breakdown can really understand.

bodice ripper

bodice ripper wrote: »

I have suffered from depression for at least the last ten years. I desperately don't want it to keep me out of the workforce, but there is no pretending it doesn't make it tougher. The insomnia alone would be a major issue. And the problem definitely isn't that I am lazy; I become agitated from sitting still or staying in the house.

The stress is such that my hair is falling out.

I am gutted for you, and am sending you positive thoughts. That sounds awful.

Leg End Reject

External Association wrote: »

You know, 100% when the real thing hits alright. The symptoms can be extremely severe. And I'm not even talking suicidal thoughts here. Panic attacks, fatigue where you can't shower, inability to function as in buy something in a local shop, over salivating, palpitations, breathlessness, total fear of the present and future, vomiting..the works. I don't think anyone who has never had depression or a nervous breakdown can really understand.

I've never experienced that, just the normal life traumas to date, but I'm very thankful for that.

External Association

Leg End Reject wrote: »

I've never experienced that, just the normal life traumas to date, but I'm very thankful for that.

I have. It started at the end of March 1996 after my 20th birthday. I was out of circulation for 2 years. Most of my 20s were in and out of jobs. Had no energy. Thankfully since my 30s I got onto the right medical regieme and I'm very fit now.

But there's the shadow of the shadow...it lurks in the background. When you come through it once you know you can again at least.

Be thankful alright. I've had the grief of a parent dying, friends etc. They aren't easy either.

Potential-Monke

TP_CM wrote: »

Pretty much every single overweight person knows how to lose weight. Yet, hardly any depressed individual knows how to find hope. It shows we're not doing near enough to educate people that the brain needs looking after just like our bodies. Most teens these days probably don't even realise that staring at instagram and porn all day is the brain's version of eating fast food.

I'm being very devils advocate tonight, but I do kinda agree with what I'm about to say. I think the opposite. I think right now is a time when we have far more information about depression and related illnesses and how to tackle them. The problem is (and not for everyone) that people want it fixed for them. I really need to stress I don't think this about everyone. I have been previously diagnosed with stress related anxiety and I've done a lot to remove the stress. Now, I rarely get a panic attack or anxious like I used to, but I've removed myself from basically all situations where that could happen. I'm now introverted and a bit of a social recluse, but I'm far happier than I previously was.

I agree social media is a bane on existence, because it's far from a positive thing (even though it could be). But you don't need a doctor to tell you to stop, you just need to stop. Like any addiction, that's the best way. You can get help with it, but ultimately it's up to you to make that choice. Depression is obviously a lot harder, but hard decisions need to be made, and that's part of the reason people find it hard to break the cycle.

I've had to put up with a lot of stick, and still do, due to the changes I've made. Family members giving out I don't go out with them anymore. Friends who don't talk to me anymore because I don't attend social situations (not that we've anything to talk about anyway, such is the "friendship"). I'm not doing all this because I want to, I'm doing it because it's better for me. And society puts expectations on people, so going against those expectations give dicks an excuse to have a go (playful or otherwise) for your change in life.

It's a hard one, because depression is very personal and each persons experience will be different, just with a similar theme. There's no 1 way to fix it, but I do believe the information and help is out there if you want it. I don't agree with paying some quack €100 a hour once a week to "talk" about your feelings, this is something you can, and should, do yourself. it's hard, it'll take time, but it's possible. But your whole world may have to change, and that's the first step, imo, to fighting it and hopefully, eventually, conquering it.

No ill intent here, just my opinion.

Leg End Reject

Ah P-M, I've said this before, but I hope you're actually happy and not just shutting yourself away because of bad experiences.

Potential-Monke

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I'm being very devils advocate tonight, but I do kinda agree with what I'm about to say. I think the opposite. I think right now is a time when we have far more information about depression and related illnesses and how to tackle them. The problem is (and not for everyone) that people want it fixed for them. I really need to stress I don't think this about everyone. I have been previously diagnosed with stress related anxiety and I've done a lot to remove the stress. Now, I rarely get a panic attack or anxious like I used to, but I've removed myself from basically all situations where that could happen. I'm now introverted and a bit of a social recluse, but I'm far happier than I previously was.

I agree social media is a bane on existence, because it's far from a positive thing (even though it could be). But you don't need a doctor to tell you to stop, you just need to stop. Like any addiction, that's the best way. You can get help with it, but ultimately it's up to you to make that choice. Depression is obviously a lot harder, but hard decisions need to be made, and that's part of the reason people find it hard to break the cycle.

I've had to put up with a lot of stick, and still do, due to the changes I've made. Family members giving out I don't go out with them anymore. Friends who don't talk to me anymore because I don't attend social situations (not that we've anything to talk about anyway, such is the "friendship"). I'm not doing all this because I want to, I'm doing it because it's better for me. And society puts expectations on people, so going against those expectations give dicks an excuse to have a go (playful or otherwise) for your change in life.

It's a hard one, because depression is very personal and each persons experience will be different, just with a similar theme. There's no 1 way to fix it, but I do believe the information and help is out there if you want it. I don't agree with paying some quack €100 a hour once a week to "talk" about your feelings, this is something you can, and should, do yourself. it's hard, it'll take time, but it's possible. But your whole world may have to change, and that's the first step, imo, to fighting it and hopefully, eventually, conquering it.

No ill intent here, just my opinion.

An awful lot of people need to talk to a professional on a regular basis in order to help make sense of themselves and their experiences. It's a positive thing. I've done it and certainly didn't feel like I was attending a "quack".

12.5% of the population of Ireland has asthma (highest in the world) but 100 years ago, no one had ever heard of it. What’s your point caller?

Rodin

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Years ago we didn’t know much about mental illness, but now it’s everywhere. People we used to just think were a bit nervous probably had anxiety, some we thought were lazy were deeply depressed. Just wondering what percentage would ye say have some minor mental illness, serious enough to require some medicine occasionally or the odd day off work, but not enough to keep you out of the workforce say?

Mental health illness is completely over (self)-diagnosed and therefore devalues genuine problems.

Leg End Reject

[Deleted User] wrote: »

12.5% of the population of Ireland has asthma (highest in the world) but 100 years ago, no one had ever heard of it. What’s your point caller?

There's always one. Sure throw in a few cancer stats while you're at it.

Then look up the the difference between physiological and psychological pathologies.

Sardonicat

Rodin wrote: »

Mental health illness is completely over (self)-diagnosed and therefore devalues genuine problems.

What's a "genuine problem"?

Leg End Reject

Sardonicat wrote: »

What's a "genuine problem"?

I'd imagine one that the poster has personal experience of. Empathy is beyond the grasp of many.

bodice ripper

bodice ripper wrote: »

I have suffered from depression for at least the last ten years. I desperately don't want it to keep me out of the workforce, but there is no pretending it doesn't make it tougher. The insomnia alone would be a major issue. And the problem definitely isn't that I am lazy; I become agitated from sitting still or staying in the house.

The stress is such that my hair is falling out.

I've similar. Tough childhood and early adulthood has triggered massive depressive episodes. I worry so much about my siblings and if they have the same. The insomnia is a bitch. It's why I'm up right now. Happens most weeknights. Went to bed tired and the mind started spinning.

I've lost my hair which I'd attribute to the effects of parent alcoholism and all the stresses that come with that. Sigh. We can only keep ploughing on. Best of luck.

One eyed Jack

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Years ago we didn’t know much about mental illness, but now it’s everywhere. People we used to just think were a bit nervous probably had anxiety, some we thought were lazy were deeply depressed. Just wondering what percentage would ye say have some minor mental illness, serious enough to require some medicine occasionally or the odd day off work, but not enough to keep you out of the workforce say?

We knew plenty about it, but just addressed it in different terms is all. I’ve no idea of the prevalence of any particular degree of ill mental health or percentages among the population, but I’ve never given any thought to think of ill mental health in those terms. I’m more concerned with the health of those people closest to me that I care about, that I can at least intervene or assist in some way if I notice that they’re having difficulty or it’s brought to my attention by themselves or other people that they’re having difficulty coping which is causing them distress and distraction and just being unable to function as they would wish to.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

An awful lot of people need to talk to a professional on a regular basis in order to help make sense of themselves and their experiences. It's a positive thing. I've done it and certainly didn't feel like I was attending a "quack".

I think a kinder interpretation of PM’s perspective is that some people just aren’t interested in therapy provided by qualified professionals (and in my experience there really are plenty of quacks among them). It can be difficult to find a professional therapist or counsellor, psychologist or psychiatrist that the person feels comfortable with, which is going to make it all that much more difficult to build a relationship based upon trust and being able to be honest with the person who is offering their services. €100 a week isn’t easy to come by for a lot of people, although there are numerous alternatives, such as talking to family and friends on an ongoing basis as opposed to just wanting to talk to someone only when one is experiencing a difficult period in their lives.

Prevention, being better than something there is no cure for, only treatment.

Mrs OBumble

TP_CM wrote: »

Pretty much every single overweight person knows how to lose weight. Yet, hardly any depressed individual knows how to find hope.

Not had it myself, but a couple of friends have suffered from actual clinical depression - the genuine disease, not just the experience of feeling down because of the challenges of day life which pretty much everyone experience sometimes.

Comments like the one above totally trivialise their experience and illness. They need actual medical treatment, not just warm fuzzy "finding hope" shyte.

It's a bit like saying we should teach diabetics where to find insulin, or asthmatics where to find oxygen, and that they could fix their diseases with the right homeopathic remedies.

Wanderer78

Sunny Disposition wrote:

Years ago we didn’t know much about mental illness, but now it’s everywhere. People we used to just think were a bit nervous probably had anxiety, some we thought were lazy were deeply depressed. Just wondering what percentage would ye say have some minor mental illness, serious enough to require some medicine occasionally or the odd day off work, but not enough to keep you out of the workforce say?

Mental illnesses have probably always existed, those of us that suffer or have suffered, probably just hide it due to the shame that still exists. Most people probably need more time off work due to mental health issues, or just normal life stresses, but I wish you well if trying to explain that to an employer! And putting any potential mental health issues on the work place table could also be risky, I've seen people 'managed out the door', due to their mental health issues. So the cycle continues, those of us struggle in silence, due to fear. I've seen folks with serious mental health issues being forced back to work due to normal life commitments, when really they should have been resting. I've worked with folks who were struggling, but may have been unaware how serious their mental health issues were, this manifests in many dysfunctional ways, alcoholism, drug addiction, gambling, obesity, etc etc. This occured to me to some degree, as I've spent a lifetime struggling with mental health issues, due to the fact I spent most of my life having undiagnosed autism and other disorders.

These issues should not be happening, but they are, and it's extremely serious now, it's costing us all in many ways, and not just financially. We have a much deeper and better understanding of these complex psychological issues and disorders, but we do not have the structures in place to deal with them appropriately, our working environments, our critical needs such as accommodation and housing, the appropriate health care system to adequately deal with these issues etc etc. I'd say we d all be shocked at the true figures of how many fit these criteria

TP_CM

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Not had it myself, but a couple of friends have suffered from actual clinical depression - the genuine disease, not just the experience of feeling down because of the challenges of day life which pretty much everyone experience sometimes.

Comments like the one above totally trivialise their experience and illness. They need actual medical treatment, not just warm fuzzy "finding hope" shyte.

It's a bit like saying we should teach diabetics where to find insulin, or asthmatics where to find oxygen, and that they could fix their diseases with the right homeopathic remedies.

Totally trivialise their experience? Maybe your definition of the word "hope" is something warm and fuzzy. But the actual real life definition is "Grounds for believing that something good may happen". The opposite of that is depression. Herein lies the problem and whole point of my post.

Finding hope is the number one goal of a depressed person seeking treatment. For some, it's a chat with a mate, and for others such as your friend it's a longer journey with people who have studied it all for decades. There's no trivialising here. Well, until you started calling it "warm fuzzy something-or-other".

TP_CM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

It's a hard one, because depression is very personal and each persons experience will be different, just with a similar theme. There's no 1 way to fix it, but I do believe the information and help is out there if you want it. I don't agree with paying some quack €100 a hour once a week to "talk" about your feelings, this is something you can, and should, do yourself. it's hard, it'll take time, but it's possible. But your whole world may have to change, and that's the first step, imo, to fighting it and hopefully, eventually, conquering it.

No ill intent here, just my opinion.

I think paying someone 100€ to talk about your feelings is probably crazy too. But the issue I have here is that you're down-playing mental health professionals to being "quacks" who do nothing but sit and listen. I mean if a person needs someone to sit and listen, get a dog..

Mental health professionals who charge 100 euro an hour should, at very least, be helping patients learn what mental exercises they can be doing to overcome whatever issue it is they're facing. Say, instead of anxiety, you had a sore leg. The approach you've taken, which is completely fine, is to simply not strain it. Rest at home and there are no issues. Perfectly fine solution if you're happy with that. But for those who want to live differently, a good mental health professional should and would be starting right from the beginning, identifying the reason you became so anxious in the first place, and putting together a plan of mental exercises you could do on a daily basis to be able to walk to the shop, or up a hill, or ultimately hiking.

Like with a lot of people who have a sore leg, you could always Google it and do whatever yoga and stretches you find on Youtube and for many, the mental health equivalent of that (sleep well, write down 10 positive things a day, take deep breaths, meditate etc) is enough to get by. But seeing a professional who knows way more than the first page of Google, and who can tailor exercises to target your specific problem, while tracking your progress and goals, can bring about better results. And, again like physical ailments, it can range from a niggling problem, to one which basically needs complete surgery or medication to help fix it.

I do agree that the patient/client needs to do the majority of the work. That's always the case.

Mrs OBumble

TP_CM wrote: »

Finding hope is the number one goal of a depressed person seeking treatment. For some, it's a chat with a mate.

If the problem can be fixed by a chat with a friend, then the person does NOT have clinical depression.

They may be feeling depressed, as part of the normal range of emotions that everyone experiences, but there's a world of difference between that and the actual disease.

anewme

Edited to add: Response was to a very disrespectful post which was removed.

Calling people speaking out about mental health challenges as "forced" or "bloody attention seeking" are reasons why we still have so many suicides in Ireland.

There has been a shift away from that archaic stuff upper lip, man up attitude and that has to be positive.

Years ago, people were labelled as having problems with their nerves or being mad and were afraid to speak out as looking for attention.

There is not one house in Ireland where mental health challenges have not visited in one way or another.

Back to your point if everybody is down from time to time or just has an off day.

Aware use the acrynom festival to identify signs of depression:

F eeling - sad, anxious, guilty
E nergy - low energy, feeling tired or fatigued
S leeping - under or over-sleeping, any change to normal sleep pattern
T hinking - poor concentration, thoughts slowed down
I nterest - loss of interest in hobbies, family or social life
V alue - low self esteem
A ches - physical aches and pains with no physical basis
L ife - loss of interest in living, thinking about death, suicidal thoughts

They suggest that if you have 5 or more of these symptoms for 2 weeks or more, it is advisable to talk to your GP and seek medical advice.

Depression can impact 1 in 10 people at any time.

There are great support mechanisms out there now to support people. Trivialising peoples experiences as per post above is adding no value and should not be encouraged.

Baggly

Mod

Can everyone contributing to this thread please bear in mind that medical advice should not be solicited nor provided on the site.

Separately, but in addition to that; please bear in mind that people may be sharing details on the topic that are personal and quite sensitive. If you are going to dismiss those experiences without good reason and/or without some level of empathy, it is the definition of 'being a dick' and will be actioned accordingly.

Rodin

Sardonicat wrote: »

What's a "genuine problem"?

Genuine depression and mental illness is very real.
Now everybody and their dog has anxiety and depression.
A nation of people who can't cope with even the most trivial of setbacks is being created through being indulged.
Mental endurance and psychological strength must be fostered.

A person needs an immune system, both physical and psychological. Each of these must develop through exposure to non-lethal pathogens or psychological stressors. If the immune system doesn't develop it's vulnerable to even the weakest of challenges.

Sardonicat

Rodin wrote: »

Genuine depression and mental illness is very real.
Now everybody and their dog has anxiety and depression.
A nation of people who can't cope with even the most trivial of setbacks is being created through being indulged.
Mental endurance and psychological strength must be fostered.

A person needs an immune system, both physical and psychological. Each of these must develop through exposure to non-lethal pathogens or psychological stressors. If the immune system doesn't develop it's vulnerable to even the weakest of challenges.

So people with mental illness are weak?

Rodin

Sardonicat wrote: »

So people with mental illness are weak?

People with genuine mental illness aren't. Illness like schizophrenia is very very real.

But many people can't cope with relatively simple things. All perspective has been lost.
Having a rough day or being sad over a break up is not necessarily clinical depression but will frequently be self-diagnosed as such.
Like many diseases like obesity, cardiovascular diseases, disease caused by smoking... prevention is better than cure.

We are not doing what we need to as a society to create people who can cope.

To quote the nurse travelling from Australia in quarantine "Even for a couple in here in one of these rooms, it's going to have serious implications for mental and physical health of anybody staying here."

Does anyone really believe there are serious implications for these people's mental health?

anewme

Rodin wrote: »

Genuine depression and mental illness is very real.
Now everybody and their dog has anxiety and depression.
A nation of people who can't cope with even the most trivial of setbacks is being created through being indulged.

What gives you the right to define who or what is "genuine." or trivial though?

Everybody copes differently with challenges and setbacks. There is no barometer to judge what is acceptable.

That's why depression and mental illness impact every person differently.

Bagging it up as being indulged is poor form and disrespectful to the people posting here.

Rodin

anewme wrote: »

What gives you the right to define who or what is "genuine." or trivial though?

Everybody copes differently with challenges and setbacks. There is no barometer to judge what is acceptable.

That's why depression and mental illness impact every person differently.

Bagging it up as being indulged is poor form and disrespectful to the people posting here.

Do you think there are serious implications for the mental health for people in a 4star hotel for 12 days?

anewme

Rodin wrote: »

Do you think there are serious implications for the mental health for people in a 4star hotel for 12 days?

It very much depends on the individual and what their current state of mind is though?

Rodin

anewme wrote: »

It very much depends on the individual and what their current state of mind is though?

If 2 weeks in a 4star hotel has serious implications for mental health then there's a perfect example of why people need to be psychologically stronger... there's lads bunked down in tents in the wind and rain over the weekend ffs...

The hotel scenario perfectly illustrates my point about people not being able to cope.

We all judge. Margaret Cash was judge by all and sundry (including me) but we need to be honest and admit we all judge.
The difference between us is simply at what point we judge....

If society was a bit more honest we'd be in a far better place.

walshb

The problem is that the term mental health is far too broad these days..

Like a lot of issues, there are levels...

Personally I think the dilution in society today is why we are seeing a rush by so many to diagnose everything and anything as being the one.

Every single human suffers from mental health challenges if we apply today’s standards and diagnosis...

It called being human..

I see it as there being far too much forcing and emphasis placed on people simply being people.

Sardonicat

Rodin wrote: »

People with genuine mental illness aren't. Illness like schizophrenia is very very real.

But many people can't cope with relatively simple things. All perspective has been lost.
Having a rough day or being sad over a break up is not necessarily clinical depression but will frequently be self-diagnosed as such.
Like many diseases like obesity, cardiovascular diseases, disease caused by smoking... prevention is better than cure.

We are not doing what we need to as a society to create people who can cope.

Depression is as real as schizophrenia. People who have a history of depressive episodes or a history of trauma are far more likely to develop clinical depression following something like a break-up. This is not their fault. To use your analogy of physical health, imagine you develop lower back pain from years of physical work, or a sudden injury, or just unfortunate muscular/skeletal composition. You treat the back pain with various physical remedies, you avoid physical work and learn to move and lift things carefully. Then you trip or fall or are in a car crash or have some accident or have to lift a heavy load in an emergency situation and your back is in bits again. You can barely walk. You have difficulty carrying out even basic self care tasks. You are in terrible pain, so you have to go for treatment: physical therapies, rest, maybe a surgical procedure, maybe even short term meds, until your back can function again. Now, we all can twinge our backs, have a couple of days when we're out of action and having to take it easy. That doesn't mean for those few days you dont have an injured back and take the relevant actions to help it heal. It's the same with mental health. Some people have had to carry heavy loads all their lives. Some people had an event that causes a psychological injury, some people just get unlucky with their genes. Most of the time they can be grand, but a knock that might put you out for a week or so can spark a much longer episode thst can spiral out of control without some support, be that therapy, medication, and using coping strategies. And even if you're not prone to depressive illness, being depressed about something like a break -up is still being depressed. It may resolve itself after a while, it may not get too severe, but it may just add to the individual load you have to carry through life. We al have a limit to how much we can carry before it gets too much, just like a back can only carry so much, or repeatedly carry heavy loads for so long. Some people have stronger backs then others, but they all have a limit.

TP_CM

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If the problem can be fixed by a chat with a friend, then the person does NOT have clinical depression.

They may be feeling depressed, as part of the normal range of emotions that everyone experiences, but there's a world of difference between that and the actual disease.

I don't understand why this is a response to anything I'm saying. I've clearly mentioned the severity can range from needing a chat with a friend all the way to clinical depression. Wires are crossed somewhere but to me we're in agreement. Maybe you want to talk about them as two completely different or distinct things which I have no problem with. To me it's more a spectrum and on one side someone needs a chat and on the other they need medical attention. But if you think clinical depression is so severe that it isn't even on the same spectrum then ok, fair enough.

anewme

Rodin wrote: »

If 2 weeks in a 4star hotel has serious implications for mental health then there's a perfect example of why people need to be psychologically stronger... there's lads bunked down in tents in the wind and rain over the weekend ffs...

The hotel scenario perfectly illustrates my point about people not being able to cope.

We all judge. Margaret Cash was judge by all and sundry (including me) but we need to be honest and admit we all judge.
The difference between us is simply at what point we judge....

If society was a bit more honest we'd be in a far better place.

I don't believe it does. It shows everyone has different thresholds.

Peoples mental health is personal to them.

It's not for you to tell them what is or what isnt coping. There is no minimum defined level.

Rodin

Sardonicat wrote: »

Depression is as real as schizophrenia. People who have a history of depressive episodes or a history of trauma are far more likely to develop clinical depression following something like a break-up. This is not their fault. To use your analogy of physical health, imagine you develop lower back pain from years of physical work, or a sudden injury, or just unfortunate muscular/skeletal composition. You treat the back pain with various physical remedies, you avoid physical work and learn to move and lift things carefully. Then you trip or fall or are in a car crash or have some accident or have to lift a heavy load in an emergency situation and your back is in bits again. You can barely walk. You have difficulty carrying out even basic self care tasks. You are in terrible pain, so you have to go for treatment: physical therapies, rest, maybe a surgical procedure, maybe even short term meds, until your back can function again. Now, we all can twinge our backs, have a couple of days when we're out of action and having to take it easy. That doesn't mean for those few days you dont have an injured back and take the relevant actions to help it heal. It's the same with mental health. Some people have had to carry heavy loads all their lives. Some people had an event that causes a psychological injury, some people just get unlucky with their genes. Most of the time they can be grand, but a knock that might put you out for a week or so can spark a much longer episode thst can spiral out of control without some support, be that therapy, medication, and using coping strategies. And even if you're not prone to depressive illness, being depressed about something like a break -up is still being depressed. It may resolve itself after a while, it may not get too severe, but it may just add to the individual load you have to carry through life. We al have a limit to how much we can carry before it gets too much, just like a back can only carry so much, or repeatedly carry heavy loads for so long. Some people have stronger backs then others, but they all have a limit.

And people can train their backs and become stronger or the back becomes stronger by repeated stress, strain and then recovery.
We are not training people for increasing their mental strength and then something small breaks them.

Enough force will break the strongest back or mind but typically it is the minimal of impacts causing "damage".
The point remains that we must strengthen mental resolve.

Rodin

anewme wrote: »

I don't believe it does. It shows everyone has different thresholds.

Peoples mental health is personal to them.

It's not for you to tell them what is or what isnt coping. There is no minimum defined level.

My point is the threshold is much lower than in the past and needs to be raised.

walshb

Sardonicat wrote: »

So people with mental illness are weak?

Actually, yes. Mental health illness that weakens us.

And having weakness is inherent in us all

So, in admitting it here is in no way bad form

Every person will encounter weakness.

Let’s not try twist that into anything other than us being us

And people overcome weakness and fragility and traumas all the time..

The saying, which I find quite annoying, it’s ok not be ok....can easily be turned to its ok to be weak, or show weakness..

anewme

Rodin wrote: »

My point is the threshold is much lower than in the past and needs to be raised.

No, its not much lower than in the past, it's just not stigmatised as much to speak out about it,

anewme

walshb wrote: »

Actually, yes. Mental health illness that weakens us.

And having weakness is inherent in us all

So, in admitting it here is in no way bad form

Every person will encounter weakness.

Let’s not try twist that into anything other than us being us

And people overcome weakness and fragility and traumas all the time..

The saying, which I find quite annoying, it’s ok not be ok....can easily be turned to its ok to be weak, or show weakness..

Can you not see the difference between weakness and illness?

walshb

anewme wrote: »

Can you not see the difference between weakness and illness?

Yes.

An illness weakens us...

So, suffering with any illness makes us weak, weaker, less strong..

And it is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of.

All of us will encounter these issues and illnesses, whether they be mental illness or physical illness...

Some people will suffer more and suffer more easily. This is what we are..

Rodin

anewme wrote: »

No, its not much lower than in the past, it's just not stigmatised as much to speak out about it,

I don't agree.

People talking about serious implications for mental health from staying in a 4 star hotel need called out on their BS.
I don't believe for one second that these people will suffer mental illness from this.