Private School Arseholes V Public School Ruffians

Infernal Racket

Every kid in the country sits the same leaving cert examinations at the end of their school life right? Now, I have never met a kid who finished private school and turned out to be an unpolished, uncouth, ruffian and likewise I have but rarely come across any public school pupils with posh accents and high notions about themselves. I went to public school so know what life is like there and I def ended up on the ruffian side. So all you poshos out there, tell us what your teachers did within the classroom to nurture your love of crushed avocado on sourdough toast and skiing holidays in Verbier?

Thelonious Monk

I've always found men who went to private schools in Ireland to have an arrogance about them

Leg End Reject

A lot of the differences come from their parents attitudes, lifestyle and social circles. This applies to both groups.

SuperSean11

$$$ spent on a fancy named school = $$$$ in later life

Infernal Racket

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I've always found men who went to private schools in Ireland to have an arrogance about them

Arrogance is almost guaranteed

Larbre34

I've met some of the best people from state and private schools alike. And also the opposite.

To me, its about the example they are shown in the home that transcends formal education. The parents that teach a privileged kid the value of a euro and compassion and charity and the parents that teach a deprived kid the value of education and the success that comes of hard work are both contributing equally to society in my view. Its certainly what made this Country pull itself out of the dark ages.

Are there the stereotypes out there? Sure. But in the minority and they are to be pitied.

Leg End Reject

SuperSean11 wrote: »

$$$ spent on a fancy named school = $$$$ in later life

You'll meet a lot more well connected people in a fee paying school, that will open more doors later in life.

Infernal Racket

Leg End Reject wrote: »

You'll meet a lot more well connected people in a fee paying school, that will open more doors later in life.

Very much like the schools system in the states. You could be as dumb as a box of rocks but make the right friends and you'll be set for life.

There's room for both in your life really, Tarquin can help you get a great job while Deco can help you get great drugs.

TP_CM

I'm not connected with all the lads I went to private school with. I suppose I feel better educated because in first year we studied 18 subjects. We were kept in school to study in the study hall until 9pm every night. There was rugby, hockey and the PE classes wasn't just about playing soccer, we had every sport you can imagine. We were also in on Saturdays and Sunday mornings doing extra curricular programmes learning how to paint and play musical instruments and did everything from karate to fencing to debating.

I think learning loads of different things gives you a confidence in the workplace that if someone else can do something, why can't I? That kind of mindset leads to progression and then more money I suppose. I've worked with people from Sherriff st and they were more able than some people I went to school with but they just didn't want it.

Sometimes I think that what is expected of you through your school and home life dictates what you expect of yourself for the rest of your life. Obviously more a general rule than a watertight one.

Hangdogroad

I say old bean what what.

Rodin

Infernal Racket wrote: »

Every kid in the country sits the same leaving cert examinations at the end of their school life right? Now, I have never met a kid who finished private school and turned out to be an unpolished, uncouth, ruffian and likewise I have but rarely come across any public school pupils with posh accents and high notions about themselves. I went to public school so know what life is like there and I def ended up on the ruffian side. So all you poshos out there, tell us what your teachers did within the classroom to nurture your love of crushed avocado on sourdough toast and skiing holidays in Verbier?

Sunshine in the winter.
Enough said.

kowloon

I was privately educated but it didn't take, I'm still scum.

Trigger Happy

Any parent will want the best for their kids, to set them up with the best chances of a successful and fulfilled life.
If you can afford it and had a choice - would you send your kids to a private school or the local public school? Private for me.

portlygent

I honestly don't think it makes a difference. If your kids a dimwit, they'll be a dimwit in private school as well. If they're gifted, they'll perform just as well in public school.

One benefit of public school however, is the likelihood of a cocky teenager being humbled by a good kicking is much higher.

TP_CM

Trigger Happy wrote: »

Any parent will want the best for their kids, to set them up with the best chances of a successful and fulfilled life.
If you can afford it and had a choice - would you send your kids to a private school or the local public school? Private for me.

I went to private school but wouldn't necessarily choose that for my kids. I have some private schools locally but I would prefer the educate together one here instead. They have fantastic facilities and I would prefer something with more diversification. Also none of the private schools near me are mixed as far as I know.

I'd much rather my daughter work in Dunnes and be happy than work as a top executive and be miserable. For many money is everything but not for me. I came out the private schooling system and got a degree which got me earning 6 figures before the age of 30. But if I'm honest and could do it all again, I would prefer to be a primary school teacher. Once the mortgage is paid off I'll probably take that risk and go back and do that training. The rat race isn't for everyone. I wish more parents realised that.

kowloon

TP_CM wrote: »

I went to private school but wouldn't necessarily choose that for my kids. I have some private schools locally but I would prefer the educate together one here instead. They have fantastic facilities and I would prefer something with more diversification. Also none of the private schools near me are mixed as far as I know.

I wouldn't put my kids in a same-sex religious school, it might increase the grades and give them some snob value on their CV but it seems to hold them back from maturing and getting along with girls outside of the usual date-rape after a rugby game that they're accustomed to.

McGinniesta

You can't make a posh w*nker from a pig's ear

There wouldn't be a private school left standing if it was up to me.

NeuralNetwork

I went to several types of school and the private ones didn’t even seem to know the levels of snobbery that were being instilled.

I remember being too embarrassed to bring friends home because people had been mocking the fact we had an Opel instead of a BMW or Merc. or that the house wasn’t big enough or in a fancy enough area. That was at age 9 or 10!! I used to basically keep two separate sets of friends - school & home and never mixed the two.

You’d get snobby and nasty comments about having a 3 bedroom house in a nice area in the Dublin suburbs. It was absolutely bizarre when I think back on it.

I never felt like “one of them” more like I was some kind of interloper.

We moved around (including abroad) due to my parents’ jobs and it was very difficult to get school places here other than in private schools. It was that era where you had to register your kids in the local school before they were conceived...

I also went to public schools here, which are in reality private religious schools and found them extremely stuffy compared to schools on the continent.

Everything about the school system here is like they got stuck in the 19th century British model. You’d think we might have innovated a bit but ... uniforms, single sex, conservative religious values.

University here was great but the school system... where do you even start?!

They treat you like a toddler when you’re about 16. Everything’s about discipline, exams and quashing any sense of creativity or challenging authority.

The contrast with public school in France and the USA is stark. We seem to spend all our time self congratulating on how we’ve higher standards than everyone else. We don’t. It’s a weird system and we live in a state of total exceptionalism and blindness about it.

I know people who’ve moved back to France, Germany and the US specifically to avoid the Irish Catholic school system. That has impacts on our being a serious tech hub. Techies have kids and not everyone is happy with the Sister Assumpta model of education and by international comparison to similar European or western countries generally it is weird. We just don’t see it.

Sure, there are a few Educate Together schools, but they’re few and far between and actually very hard to find in Dublin. Many of the most sought after areas of Dublin for younger families have some of the most hardcore traditionalist schools due to the history of the city.

We’ve still got 96% of schools under religious “patronage” in 2021. Whether they’re private or publicly funded they’re mostly very conservative and weird compared to anywhere else around the EU.

It won’t change because we can’t it as we are all brought up worth it.

Church on Tuesday

If it can be done later in life, it will be private schooling, more so for LC cycle.

You get what you pay for. Too many teachers in public schools are just going through the motions.

NeuralNetwork

You don’t, actually.

I had both good and terrible teachers in both private and public schools here. If anything, sometimes the department of education involvement in schools led to better standards, as there seemed to be more monitoring.

In terms of teaching, atmosphere and genuine education, the best Irish example I experienced was a suburban community school with a more modern ethos. They genuinely cared about education and student welfare.

Church on Tuesday

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

You don’t, actually.

I had both good and terrible teachers in both private and public schools here. If anything, sometimes the department of education involvement in schools led to better standards, as there seemed to be more monitoring.

In terms of teaching, atmosphere and genuine education, the best Irish example I experienced was a suburban community school with a more modern ethos. They genuinely cared about education and student welfare.

Anyone I know who went to private schools did much better than when in public education.

NeuralNetwork

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Anyone I know who went to private schools did much better than when in public education.

That’s very likely due to selection bias though. If you’re sent to private school you very likely have a household of people who are seeing education as some to invest in.

If you go to school that has a general intake you may not have that level of focus.

Also I don’t remember anyone in private schools I went to who was dealing with learning disabilities or anything like that, yet there were always some in public schools.

If you’re more focused on practical subjects you’re also not likely to be heading to an academic fee paying school.

It’s easy enough to get good results when you apply an intake filter, often involving a large fee.

Does it mean that kids in public are getting worse results? I think that’s doubtful. We’re not all measuring outcomes by total school population points results. That’s a pretty poor measure.

EmmetSpiceland

If you want your kids doing well in the LC, but having limited social skills, send them to a “crammer” school. If you want them well adjusted and given a, more, “rounded” education go private.

If you want to run the risk of them going through life with a chip on their shoulder about gastro pub “clientele” and forever moaning about ‘The Late Late Show’, and RTÉ in general, by all means send them to a public school.

Aongus Von Bismarck

I went to a distinctly average public school in the intellectual desert that is rural Galway. Where the majority of the teachers were just phoning it in, and where the ambition for most of the students was to win a county final and get a job in a medical device factory.

It really was quite an eye-opener when I started my Business Studies and German course in Trinity, and encountered fellow students who had attended some of the more prestigious private schools in this country. They tended to be very well-rounded individuals who had that mixture of ambition, intelligence, strong character, sporting prowess, and varied hobbies and interests. These were characteristics I had developed or innately had myself, but they certainly were not sown into the fabric and ethos of the school I attended. Most of them are extremely decent individuals as well, and don’t have any of the petty grudges and jealousy that is so apparent in the wider Irish populace.

My own children will be attending private schools.

DrSerious3

Trigger Happy wrote: »

Any parent will want the best for their kids, to set them up with the best chances of a successful and fulfilled life.
If you can afford it and had a choice - would you send your kids to a private school or the local public school? Private for me.

State school all the way. Could not stand them bleeding blue and white for Blackrock with the goys.

AlphabetCards

TP_CM wrote: »

I think learning loads of different things gives you a confidence in the workplace that if someone else can do something, why can't I? That kind of mindset leads to progression and then more money I suppose.

I like this, it rings true for me and I am retarded. I was exposed to a lot academically growing up, and it gave me a decent intellect even if I am not particularly intelligent. Now, every time I see someone achieve something, I give it a go.

Aongus Von Bismarck

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

I went to a distinctly average public school in the intellectual desert that is rural Galway. Where the majority of the teachers were just phoning it in, and where the ambition for most of the students was to win a county final and get a job in a medical device factory.

It really was quite an eye-opener when I started my Business Studies and German course in Trinity, and encountered fellow students who had attended some of the more prestigious private schools in this country. They tended to be very well-rounded individuals who had that mixture of ambition, intelligence, strong character, sporting prowess, and varied hobbies and interests. These were characteristics I had developed or innately had myself, but they certainly were not sown into the fabric and ethos of the school I attended. Most of them are extremely decent individuals as well, and don’t have any of the petty grudges and jealousy that is so apparent in the wider Irish populace.

My own children will be attending private schools.

I say old keed, you dropped your monocle again. Heaven forfend a riff-raff dare breathe on it.

External Association

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I've always found men who went to private schools in Ireland to have an arrogance about them

Agreed. But to varying degrees. The more expensive the school, the more arrogant the people!

Though sometimes, you get a few people who interact with private school people with a subconscious chip on the shoulder, and a prejudice.

dotsman

There is no difference in the actual education in a fee-paying school to a non-fee-paying school.

The only difference is that, in a fee-paying school, the question is "what do you intend to do in college?" as opposed to "do you hope to go to college?"

Ultimately, you are surrounding your kids with other kids whose parents have similar values and attitudes to education as you. Therefore, little johnnie/susan's friends are likely to all be ambitious and looking to get in the 400's and 500's (maybe even the coveted 600) point wise.

If you are living in a middle class area and sending your kids to a "good" school, then they are pretty much surrounded at all times by adults who are good role models and kids who are been raised with the same attitudes. Thus, the chances of your kids "falling in with the wrong crowd", "settling for low points/options" or "dropping out" etc is very slim.

I have never understood where people get the notions that it is about connections or anything ****e like that (obviously watch too much tv). I don't know of a single person who would have ever experienced anything like that.

AlphabetCards

Deleted User wrote: »

There wouldn't be a private school left standing if it was up to me.

I never understand this. You reckon the government should be the only suppliers of education to children? The existence of private schools keeps the government honest in educational standards. Without private schools striving to produce students with the highest scores, you would just have a continually dropping baseline of performance in the educational sector. That's not an insult to teachers btw, it's just that government administrators tend to cut corners wherever they can when it comes to policy, budgets and such.

Church on Tuesday

dotsman wrote: »

There is no difference in the actual education in a fee-paying school to a non-fee-paying school.

The only difference is that, in a fee-paying school, the question is "what do you intend to do in college?" as opposed to "do you hope to go to college?"

Ultimately, you are surrounding your kids with other kids whose parents have similar values and attitudes to education as you. Therefore, little johnnie/susan's friends are likely to all be ambitious and looking to get in the 400's and 500's (maybe even the coveted 600) point wise.

If you are living in a middle class area and sending your kids to a "good" school, then they are pretty much surrounded at all times by adults who are good role models and kids who are been raised with the same attitudes. Thus, the chances of your kids "falling in with the wrong crowd", "settling for low points/options" or "dropping out" etc is very slim.

I have never understood where people get the notions that it is about connections or anything ****e like that (obviously watch too much tv). I don't know of a single person who would have ever experienced anything like that.

In terms of education or career opportunities?

AlphabetCards

dotsman wrote: »

I have never understood where people get the notions that it is about connections or anything ****e like that (obviously watch too much tv). I don't know of a single person who would have ever experienced anything like that.

It's about shared life experiences, not actual shaken-upon agreements made between teenagers in schools. I witnessed this in the British Army, and in 3 universities here in the UK. It's about having common vernacular, accents, experiences, interests.

byhookorbycrook

Trigger Happy wrote: »

Any parent will want the best for their kids, to set them up with the best chances of a successful and fulfilled life.
If you can afford it and had a choice - would you send your kids to a private school or the local public school? Private for me.

Ah , bless . Tell me that makes the fee paying school better? ( Bar having to mix with people from lower wage brackets )

Tony EH

Trigger Happy wrote: »

Any parent will want the best for their kids, to set them up with the best chances of a successful and fulfilled life.
If you can afford it and had a choice - would you send your kids to a private school or the local public school? Private for me.

It would very much depend on the quality of the school. People, too often, blindly believe that spending money equals quality. More often than not it's simply not the case.

There are many levels to consider when looking into a school and there are various strata involved. A private school doesn't necessarily mean that there is automatically a better return.

There are private schools in this country and Britain that aren't any better than the public ones and a lot of people mistakenly think that simply ponying up a few bob to send little Jane or Johnny to a private school is like sending them to Eton or Harrow.

Cyrus

dotsman wrote: »

There is no difference in the actual education in a fee-paying school to a non-fee-paying school.

The only difference is that, in a fee-paying school, the question is "what do you intend to do in college?" as opposed to "do you hope to go to college?"

Ultimately, you are surrounding your kids with other kids whose parents have similar values and attitudes to education as you. Therefore, little johnnie/susan's friends are likely to all be ambitious and looking to get in the 400's and 500's (maybe even the coveted 600) point wise.

If you are living in a middle class area and sending your kids to a "good" school, then they are pretty much surrounded at all times by adults who are good role models and kids who are been raised with the same attitudes. Thus, the chances of your kids "falling in with the wrong crowd", "settling for low points/options" or "dropping out" etc is very slim.

I have never understood where people get the notions that it is about connections or anything ****e like that (obviously watch too much tv). I don't know of a single person who would have ever experienced anything like that.

Well except for the fact that your peers are far more likely to have taken a similar career path to you so you have a network that someone else is won’t have .

It’s absolutely a thing.

Cdemess

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Ah , bless . Tell me that makes the fee paying school better? ( Bar having to mix with people from lower wage brackets )

You will meet people of all walks of life in a private school. The same in public schools too.

Never judge anyone.

Zebra3

Are there many public secondary schools in the state?

Can't recall any when I went to school though things may have changed since.

Cyrus

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Ah , bless . Tell me that makes the fee paying school better? ( Bar having to mix with people from lower wage brackets )

Facilities , teachers , chances of going to universities...

kowloon

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

They tended to be very well-rounded individuals who had that mixture of ambition, intelligence, strong character, sporting prowess, and varied hobbies and interests. These were characteristics I had developed or innately had myself, but they certainly were not sown into the fabric and ethos of the school I attended. Most of them are extremely decent individuals as well, and don’t have any of the petty grudges and jealousy that is so apparent in the wider Irish populace.

I found we were less exposed to kids from other backgrounds and the few scholarship boys tended to be extremely studious types (hence the scholarship) so they were inevitably not the most popular or representative of the culture.

Hamachi

In my opinion, public vs. private education is irrelevant unless the public school is truly atrocious, filled with disruptive, under-performing kids.

The biggest single predictor of a successful outcome in life is IQ or intellectual horse power. A decent IQ paired with a solid work ethic is an almost unstoppable combo.

I’m the eldest of five. Both my parents are very bright, but had to leave school at 14/15 to start working back in the ‘70s. Education is a massive priority for both of them. My siblings and I went to bog standard rural CBS and convent schools. Today, all of us have at least a masters and are successful professionally, except for my youngest sister who is in her final year in Trinity.

Some innate smarts plus hard work will take you as far as you want to go in life.

.anon.

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I've always found men who went to private schools in Ireland to have an arrogance about them

I have never met a privately educated person who appeared to suffer from imposter syndrome. They're either taught never to doubt their own abilities, or never to show it. A good life skill, maybe, but it leads to a lot of deeply mediocre people in positions of power and authority.

Tony EH

.anon. wrote: »

I have never met a privately educated person who appeared to suffer from imposter syndrome. They're either taught never to doubt their own abilities, or never to show it. A good life skill, maybe, but it leads to a lot of deeply mediocre people in positions of power and authority.

Arrogance is not a skill.

Hamachi

.anon. wrote: »

I have never met a privately educated person who appeared to suffer from imposter syndrome. They're either taught never to doubt their own abilities, or never to show it.

100% correct. I wish I had that self-belief instilled at a young age. It would eliminate a lot of the self-doubt that many of us experience.

The one upside to imposter syndrome is that it keeps you on your toes and drives you to keep pushing forward. The trick is to not let it overwhelm you. Acknowledge it and carry on regardless.

spurious

I taught a group from a private primary school quite a while ago while training. We were covering the concept of poverty, so, lots of international examples and explanations.

At the end of the class I asked could they think of any Irish examples of poverty. One child, absolutely earnestly, said her neighbours because 'they only have one car and go to Ireland on their holidays'.

In my experience, the most decent people came from the Educate Together schools.

.anon.

Tony EH wrote: »

Arrogance is not a skill.

Giving off an aura of confidence wherever you go, regardless of your abilities, is absolutely a skill.

Tony EH

.anon. wrote: »

Giving off an aura of confidence wherever you go, regardless of your abilities, is absolutely a skill.

Arrogance isn't confidence either.

Hoboo

Tony EH wrote: »

Arrogance is not a skill.

Self-confidence is often misinterpreted as arrogance by those with their own insecurities.

Church on Tuesday

Speaking from my own experience, and my experiences may be clouded here, but I went to a fairly prominent public secondary school in the West living off of past glories and I got a bang average education. There were some excellent teachers and there are many excellent teachers in public schools, but the majority were simply past their best; they knew it and the students (because kids are not dumb) knew it too.

In my LC cycle for English we had three different teachers. Three. One of them was a sub teacher massively out of her depth. Craic like that will impact on your studies no matter how dedicated you are as a student. It was a farce. A friend of mine who got pulled out was sent to a private school in Galway and excelled. I had to get grinds for Irish for a year because my regular teacher was basically an alcoholic, so my parents, in a sense, were paying for an education anyways.

At the end of the day, it really depends on what the student or parents want to do. Disruptive students in public schools should be encouraged to learn a trade at a tech school, they don't want to be there, let's face it and are only going to hold back the student who does actually want to learn and be there and that disruption will have a massive impact on the classrooms ability to learn and function also. It can be and was massively frustrating.

If you are a serious student and actually want a decent academic education, and if your family has the means to do so, then private is probably the best way to go if your local public school isn't delivering. Students or indeed parents that want to do the best for themselves or their kids aren't up their arse or anything, they just want to succeed and do their best by their children.

spurious

Hamachi wrote: »

In my opinion, public vs. private education is irrelevant unless the public school is truly atrocious, filled with disruptive, under-performing kids.

The biggest single predictor of a successful outcome in life is IQ or intellectual horse power. A decent IQ paired with a solid work ethic is an almost unstoppable combo.

I’m the eldest of five. Both my parents are very bright, but had to leave school at 14/15 to start working back in the ‘70s. Education is a massive priority for both of them. My siblings and I went to bog standard rural CBS and convent schools. Today, all of us have at least a masters and are successful professionally, except for my youngest sister who is in her final year in Trinity.

Some innate smarts plus hard work will take you as far as you want to go in life.

This. Parental interest and involvement is crucial.
This can manifest as fighting for years for a Gaelscoil, or an Educate Together, or paying fees. Parents with an interest are a HUGE asset to a child.