Eviction process

TattooedLady

We are buying a house that currently has tenants. They were given notice at the start of October and informed the seller they planned to move out 2nd April.

Now I know there's a hold on notices of termination while level 5 is happening.

The tenants told the sellers last week they haven't found anywhere to go yet. They are also refusing to let the landlord get anyone in for maintenance on the house (there's a possible rodent problem as droppings were found and leak in one the showers and few other bits of maintenance that need doing). According to their solicitors and ptrb it's grounds for eviction when they won't allow maintenance to be carried out.

I suppose my question is if it goes this way how long does eviction process take? They would be doing it via their solicitor. Obviously we are hoping they leave the end of next week as planned but just trying to understand what happens if they don't.

Caranica

In truth you could be looking at a year or more. Sounds like the vendor is going to need to pay them to leave as they have zero motivation or inclination to do so. That they are not allowing access looks like them bunkering down for a long haul.

punisher5112

Continue looking.....

They could be in there a very long time.

TattooedLady

Caranica wrote: »

In truth you could be looking at a year or more. Sounds like the vendor is going to need to pay them to leave as they have zero motivation or inclination to do so. That they are not allowing access looks like them bunkering down for a long haul.

I think this is what they want, the landlord to pay them to leave. From my conversations with the estate agent they had to let them off some rent to allow our surveyor and valuation agent in. They've been there 5 years and obviously don't want to leave.

The thought of starting again as we would have to reapply for our mortgage from scratch seems so daunting but we are selling our house too and can't hold out forever.

TattooedLady

punisher5112 wrote: »

Continue looking.....

They could be in there a very long time.

There's another house we've seen that we love. It's bigger, empty and only around 5 mins away from the house we were looking at. It's a bit more expensive but I would be hopeful we wouldn't have a problem getting the mortgage we would need with it.

Obviously if the tenants left next week it would be fine but it's looking less and less likely 🙈

Caranica

TattooedLady wrote: »

There's another house we've seen that we love. It's bigger, empty and only around 5 mins away from the house we were looking at. It's a bit more expensive but I would be hopeful we wouldn't have a problem getting the mortgage we would need with it.

I'd cut my losses and jump on this is you can afford it. You'll be waiting a long time to get those tenants out and who knows the damage that will have been done.

Claw Hammer

The landlord has to open a dispute with the RTB if the tenants don't vacate on the due date. After that the matter has to go to adjudication or mediation and then either settle for an order is made there can then be an appeal to the tribunal. If the tribunal make an order directing the tenants to vacate it may have to go to the district court for enforcement. If and when the district court make an order the order may then have to be brought to the Sheriff for execution. Even without covid , this can be a very lengthy process. 2-3 years in some cases.
There are potentially other ways the landlord could deal with it but it would require specialist legal advice.

jrosen

Move on and look at another house.

TheBoyConor

with those long protracted times and no doubt huge legal costs, and on top of that a few years of lost rent, then is it any wonder some of the more maverick land lords decide to take the chance on a scruff of the neck eviction, and deal with the compensation payout if it arises - it is still likely to be significantly cheaper than the hidden costs of protracted legal eviction via the RTB, courts and the appeals.

JimmyVik

Dont sign contracts until its vacant.
And keep looking elsewhere just in case.

MacDanger

TattooedLady wrote: »

There's another house we've seen that we love. It's bigger, empty and only around 5 mins away from the house we were looking at. It's a bit more expensive but I would be hopeful we wouldn't have a problem getting the mortgage we would need with it.

I'd start seriously looking at this now and progress it in tandem with waiting for the current house to be resolved. The only positive is that the overholding tenants aren't directly your issue

Mad_maxx

TattooedLady wrote: »

I think this is what they want, the landlord to pay them to leave. From my conversations with the estate agent they had to let them off some rent to allow our surveyor and valuation agent in. They've been there 5 years and obviously don't want to leave.

The thought of starting again as we would have to reapply for our mortgage from scratch seems so daunting but we are selling our house too and can't hold out forever.

if it was me id pay them off , less painful than the RTB process

Mad_maxx

TheBoyConor wrote: »

with those long protracted times and no doubt huge legal costs, and on top of that a few years of lost rent, then is it any wonder some of the more maverick land lords decide to take the chance on a scruff of the neck eviction, and deal with the compensation payout if it arises - it is still likely to be significantly cheaper than the hidden costs of protracted legal eviction via the RTB, courts and the appeals.

in an era of smart phones , not a wise idea

ive heard of sums of up to 10 k bribes being paid to end things quickly

even delinquent tenants become reasonable when a nice bung is dangled

TheBoyConor

The problem with bribing a tenant off to leave is that they may well take the money, then deny everything, and continue to hold out in spite of you.

At least when you face the legal proceedings fallout of an illegal eviction, you'll get a judgement to pay X amount, and you just pay that, when you get your scolding from the judge you just take it like a champ and carry on. At least you have more certainty of having your back. If the judge doesn't order to you reinstate the tenant that is. That can be circumvented by making the house unfit for human habitation for a few months.

Mad_maxx

TheBoyConor wrote: »

The problem with bribing a tenant off to leave is that they may well take the money, then deny everything, and continue to hold out in spite of you.

At least when you face the legal proceedings fallout of an illegal eviction, you'll get a judgement to pay X amount, and you just pay that, when you get your scolding from the judge you just take it like a champ and carry on. At least you have more certainty of having your back. If the judge doesn't order to you reinstate the tenant that is. That can be circumvented by making the house unfit for human habitation for a few months.

the bung would be paid on condition that all relevant documentation was signed by the tenant , confirming their willingness to end the tenancy and vacate , if they would not agree to that after the promise of a big pay day , it would indeed be better to accept that the courts were the only option as they were " dug in like an Alabama tick "

i would not be in favour of throwing anyone out though , you dont have a leg to stand on in todays climate

CosmicFool

I wouldn't even bother. Move on to an empty house. Buying with tenants in the house will only end in a distaer.

votecounts

Can you actually evict people during Level 5?

DubCount

votecounts wrote: »

Can you actually evict people during Level 5?

While the 5km travel restriction is in place, and for 10 days after this restriction is lifted, no.

There is an element with our political system that think you should never be allowed to evict.

votecounts

DubCount wrote: »

While the 5km travel restriction is in place, and for 10 days after this restriction is lifted, no.

There is an element with our political system that think you should never be allowed to evict.

I have a feeling it will be linked to a any change in movement,

Mad_maxx

DubCount wrote: »

While the 5km travel restriction is in place, and for 10 days after this restriction is lifted, no.

There is an element with our political system that think you should never be allowed to evict.

more than an element and within media and NGO circles , the majority

Fr Peter Mc Verry was being interviewed by Ray Darcy on radio a few years ago and he said that evictions by banks or landlords should be illegal

Darcy said nothing

TattooedLady

So we have messaged the estate agent and said that if the tenants don't leave on 2nd April then we are pulling out, he said he completely understands and doesn't blame us for doing that.

In the meantime we are looking into other houses available around our area and keeping all options open.

the_syco

TattooedLady wrote: »

Obviously if the tenants left next week it would be fine but it's looking less and less likely ��

Don't see why the tenants can't stay rent free until the eviction ban finishes, and then stay maybe another year until their case is heard. There's no incentive for them to leave.

TattooedLady wrote: »

There's another house we've seen that we love. It's bigger, empty and only around 5 mins away from the house we were looking at. It's a bit more expensive but I would be hopeful we wouldn't have a problem getting the mortgage we would need with it.

Only look at empty houses, as the tenants could cause thousands euro of damage before they leave, if they ever do.

reg114

TattooedLady wrote: »

We are buying a house that currently has tenants. They were given notice at the start of October and informed the seller they planned to move out 2nd April.

Now I know there's a hold on notices of termination while level 5 is happening.

The tenants told the sellers last week they haven't found anywhere to go yet. They are also refusing to let the landlord get anyone in for maintenance on the house (there's a possible rodent problem as droppings were found and leak in one the showers and few other bits of maintenance that need doing). According to their solicitors and ptrb it's grounds for eviction when they won't allow maintenance to be carried out.

I suppose my question is if it goes this way how long does eviction process take? They would be doing it via their solicitor. Obviously we are hoping they leave the end of next week as planned but just trying to understand what happens if they don't.

Put yourself in the tenants' shoes for a second, they are being asked to leave their home in the middle of a pandemic when the country has been under lockdown since last autumn. Its not possible to physically view rental properties so no wonder they are finding it difficult to find somewhere else to live. Being evicted is traumatic enough at the best of times but given everything that is going on I cant imagine the strain its causing the tenants involved. Detach yourself emotionally from the property in question and select another. It will save you alot of stress and money. Personally I wouldnt want to take ownership of a dwelling under such strained circumstances. Factor in the fact that the cogs of the legal system in this country move very slowly. Time = money and alot of legal fees.

Hontou

I had a property for sale but had to take it off the market as Covid 19 meant the tenants could not move out. I accept that it is difficult for tenants in this situation. What is not acceptable is tenants obstructing the sale process. I desperately need to sell the house for financial reasons so was hoping to sell under market value to a buyer who would keep the tenants on. They obstructed viewings and surveyors and behaved badly in front of potential buyers. So I gave them notice to leave and plan to sell with vacant possession instead. I was giving them a chance to stay on with a different landlord but they made that impossible. Now they are angry as their 6 months notice is up....but they have more time because of the lockdown. I know they won't budge and I will then go through the RTB process. Yes it will take ages, but eventually they will go and I will get my damaged property back. This process is so damaging to all parties involved. Estate agents (wasted time), landlords and tenants ( as it encourages bad behaviour which in turn destroys the market for good tenants).

the_syco

Hontou wrote: »

Now they are angry as their 6 months notice is up....

Was it up before the COVID lockdown eviction ban started?

TheBoyConor

Mad_maxx wrote: »

the bung would be paid on condition that all relevant documentation was signed by the tenant , confirming their willingness to end the tenancy and vacate , if they would not agree to that after the promise of a big pay day , it would indeed be better to accept that the courts were the only option as they were " dug in like an Alabama tick "

i would not be in favour of throwing anyone out though , you dont have a leg to stand on in todays climate

100% right. You wouldn't have a leg to stand on and you would undoubtedly get penalised by the court for breach of the RTA at the very least, and a judgement against you for damages. It is almost a certainty.
However my point is that the above, and all the court appearances and costs that you might be landed with, might still work out cheaper than getting the runaround and no rent from a delinquent tenant for years while you go about it through the legal eviction RTB route.

If it were me, I would take the chance on a scruff of the neck eviction and if I end up in court and get a judgement against me, I'd just take it on the chin, knowing that it is still probably a cheaper price than 2-3 years of being messed around by the tenant and RTB.

Hontou

the_syco wrote: »

Was it up before the COVID lockdown eviction ban started?

No. 4 months of it was. The other 2 months can't start again until after the ban is lifted. They are on pause at the moment.

Dempo1

TattooedLady wrote: »

We are buying a house that currently has tenants. They were given notice at the start of October and informed the seller they planned to move out 2nd April.

Now I know there's a hold on notices of termination while level 5 is happening.

The tenants told the sellers last week they haven't found anywhere to go yet. They are also refusing to let the landlord get anyone in for maintenance on the house (there's a possible rodent problem as droppings were found and leak in one the showers and few other bits of maintenance that need doing). According to their solicitors and ptrb it's grounds for eviction when they won't allow maintenance to be carried out.

I suppose my question is if it goes this way how long does eviction process take? They would be doing it via their solicitor. Obviously we are hoping they leave the end of next week as planned but just trying to understand what happens if they don't.

Walk away, this will drag on, I'd very much doubt your solicitor would be recommending purchasing a home that is subject to a tenancy and would be insisting on vacant possession. I'd be pretty sure if your availing of a mortgage, the provider would also looking for assurances about vacant possession unless of course its a commercial mortgage

Zebrag

Hi OP

I don't know too much about buying a property with current tenants but from what I've read on boards threads previously, and like other posters have said, cut your loses. The waiting game of a year plus (you could get lucky and tenants decide to give up soonerbut I doubt that's likely) would definitely put me off. One being saving up for as long as I have only to find I've to wait even longer to just access a home and I have bought, it's not worth the time and effort and the second being the arguments and back and forth communication trying to figure out what's going on nevermind trying to find out how long you've to wait.

Like they say, the next property you look at could be a lot better :-)

Good luck :-)

C3PO

If you are due to move next week OP - have you not already signed contracts?

TattooedLady

C3PO wrote: »

If you are due to move next week OP - have you not already signed contracts?

No we aren't due to move next week, the tenants are due to leave next week. It was originally hoped we would move the week after but not now. Our solicitor only got the contracts just over a week ago and there's a mapping issue and the issue with the tenants, they couldn't give us a closing date and we said we wouldn't sign until tenants are gone and there's some headway on the mapping issue.

We've been sale agreed since end of November and to be honest we are just fed up at this stage.

Samuel T. Cogley

Took me six months to get a boundary issue sorted, and by sorted I just accepted that it was possession only. Best advice anyone who is sale agreed can get is to keep looking at other options. (Noted that it has already been given in this thread.)

TattooedLady

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Took me six months to get a boundary issue sorted, and by sorted I just accepted that it was possession only. Best advice anyone who is sale agreed can get is to keep looking at other options. (Noted that it has already been given in this thread.)

Last night we were browsing on the estate agent that's selling our house website and found a house that's only gone up. Less room in the house but we both love it, we are a family of 3 so don't need a massive space. We are seriously considering going for it.

CosmicFool

reg114 wrote: »

Put yourself in the tenants' shoes for a second, they are being asked to leave their home in the middle of a pandemic when the country has been under lockdown since last autumn. Its not possible to physically view rental properties so no wonder they are finding it difficult to find somewhere else to live. Being evicted is traumatic enough at the best of times but given everything that is going on I cant imagine the strain its causing the tenants involved. Detach yourself emotionally from the property in question and select another. It will save you alot of stress and money. Personally I wouldnt want to take ownership of a dwelling under such strained circumstances. Factor in the fact that the cogs of the legal system in this country move very slowly. Time = money and alot of legal fees.

They were given notice in October and panned to move out in April. Plenty of notice.

TattooedLady

**UPDATE**

After a long discussion we have decided to pull out of buying the house. So much has happened it just dulled its sparkle and we are now on the hunt for our new forever home!

Hontou

OP, I'd be curious to find out if those tenants move out before Autumn. If you find out in future let us know. Good luck with your new house search.

TattooedLady

Hontou wrote: »

OP, I'd be curious to find out if those tenants move out before Autumn. If you find out in future let us know. Good luck with your new house search.

The house is only round the corner from where we are now so I'll keep an eye out!

rightmove

TattooedLady wrote: »

The house is only round the corner from where we are now so I'll keep an eye out!

really is a messed up housing market where these situations arise. Government has added to the mess over the years rather then helped. Virtue signaling as policy - someone has to pay the price.

JimmyVik

rightmove wrote: »

really is a messed up housing market where these situations arise. Government has added to the mess over the years rather then helped. Virtue signaling as policy - someone has to pay the price.

If you think thats bad they want to prevent you ever being able to get a tenant out next. Dotn know how anyone will ever be able to sell their properties if rented.

C3PO

TattooedLady wrote: »

**UPDATE**

After a long discussion we have decided to pull out of buying the house. So much has happened it just dulled its sparkle and we are now on the hunt for our new forever home!

Sorry for you OP but I think that’s the right decision!

Claw Hammer

JimmyVik wrote: »

If you think thats bad they want to prevent you ever being able to get a tenant out next. Dotn know how anyone will ever be able to sell their properties if rented.

There are ways to get tenants out legally. Most landlords are too mean to pay for the professional advice necessary. I know a landlord who got a defaulting tenant out of a property legally in 6 weeks. He brought a barrister down from Dublin,who told the local solicitor what to do and was in court within 4 weeks and had the tenant ordered out and gone within another 2 weeks.

DubCount

Claw Hammer wrote: »

There are ways to get tenants out legally. Most landlords are too mean to pay for the professional advice necessary. I know a landlord who got a defaulting tenant out of a property legally in 6 weeks. He brought a barrister down from Dublin,who told the local solicitor what to do and was in court within 4 weeks and had the tenant ordered out and gone within another 2 weeks.

This is good to hear but I thought you needed to go through the RTB slow bicycle race before you could even apply to a court to look at an eviction.

Gael23

I’d walk away

agoodpunt

DubCount wrote: »

This is good to hear but I thought you needed to go through the RTB slow bicycle race before you could even apply to a court to look at an eviction.

BS There can be no eviction before a determination order unless its a cruff of the neck job

Caranica

Gael23 wrote: »

I’d walk away

The op already posted that they have!

JimmyVik

Claw Hammer wrote: »

There are ways to get tenants out legally. Most landlords are too mean to pay for the professional advice necessary. I know a landlord who got a defaulting tenant out of a property legally in 6 weeks. He brought a barrister down from Dublin,who told the local solicitor what to do and was in court within 4 weeks and had the tenant ordered out and gone within another 2 weeks.

So lets say ion the OPs case the tenants dont seem to want to leave.
If the owner of the house wants to get them out, whats the worst case scenario to get them out legally? How long?

Hontou

JimmyVik wrote: »

So lets say ion the OPs case the tenants dont seem to want to leave.
If the owner of the house wants to get them out, whats the worst case scenario to get them out legally? How long?

I'm anticipating starting the process through the RTB in June (assuming level 5 lockdown over by mid April, and my tenants remaining 2 months notice then being up in June). Including the tenants appealing, I'm hoping all will be done and dusted within 6 months of contacting the RTB. That is based on our notice being valid for the purposes of selling the property. As we served notice last Summer, that means around 1 year and 5 months. But if they simply don't go? I don't know. Anecdotally I hear 2 years. In which case their part 4 is up anyway.

Claw Hammer

JimmyVik wrote: »

So lets say ion the OPs case the tenants dont seem to want to leave.
If the owner of the house wants to get them out, whats the worst case scenario to get them out legally? How long?

Years. A very evil tenant could keep it going for 7 or 8 years.

JimmyVik

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Years. A very evil tenant could keep it going for 7 or 8 years.

Now you've put people even more off renting out their houses than they were before

Hontou

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Years. A very evil tenant could keep it going for 7 or 8 years.

Surely when the part 4 is up, then it is a black and white case of out the door? (except during eviction bans).

JimmyVik

Hontou wrote: »

Surely when the part 4 is up, then it is a black and white case of out the door? (except during eviction bans).

Said many a person before they rented their properties and are now in tears