Ignoring people in wheelchairs

c68zapdsm5i1ru

My mother has recently had to start using a wheelchair. I am totally shocked at the way people ignore her and address me as if she isn't there. I took her to the Helix today to get her second jab and even the doctor, who should surely have known better, started asking me questions about her as if she couldn't answer for herself. I just pushed the wheelchair forward and moved back to the edge of the cubicle so he had to talk to her instead of me.

My mother is a highly intelligent person. She plays sudoku, does the Irish Times Crossword every day, is hugely up on current affairs, plays Bridge online etc.

But because she's lost the use of her legs people seem to assume she's list her faculties as well.

So rude and patronising.

Mules

Its bizarre, I wonder why people do it.

Larbre34

You're quite right.

But think of it from the perspective of a person who is meeting her for the first time ever. They don't know if they are greeting the most with it person in the World who has mobility problems, or a vegetable.

They see you as carer in the context of the situation. When your Mum becomes more used to the chair, she can exert herself more with people she meets, greeting them first and so on.

These situations take a bit of adjusting to everyone, don't think of others too harshly about it, just support your Mum in her own adjustment.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

Maybe if they actually looked at the person and not the chair they would get a good idea of whether they are a 'vegetable' (by which I presume you mean a person who is mentally incapacitated) or a person who makes eye contact and can speak for themselves.

Leg End Reject

Quinn Squeaking Valedictorian wrote: »

Maybe if they actually looked at the person and not the chair they would get a good idea of whether they are a 'vegetable' (by which I presume you mean a person who is mentally incapacitated) or a person who makes eye contact and can speak for themselves.

I would have assumed most people, especially medical professionals, would address the person directly.

If they were unable to respond it would become apparent very quickly, and/or the the person accompanying them would explain.

I think you mother needs to tell them in no uncertain terms that she can speak for herself.

grazer

Larbre34 wrote: »

They don't know if they are greeting the most with it person in the World who has mobility problems, or a vegetable.

Jesus, that’s quite the reasoning.
Surely common manners with anyone and everyone would be to look them in the eye and address them first. Make your judgements then. Which I hope would be kinder than what was expressed above.

Surreptitious

A vegetable is something you put in a stew not a living, breathing person regardless of disability. FS

Larbre34

Everyone far too sensitive as usual.

buried

A lot of people today, don't want to acknowledge or even think about the fact that anything in any way they perceive to be 'bad' could happen to them, including loosing some of their own mobility function, or loosing any other function at any time, any day, any where. But when they encounter someone in a wheelchair these people are shown immediately that here is somebody else who is in this situation, this encounter frightens these people and makes them highly uncomfortable. That's their problem though, and its probably not a nice place for them either to be in a situation where they make a normal encounter like this a uncomfortable problem for themselves. You did the right thing making the doctor actually talk to your Mam instead of you. By doing even just that you might have helped him.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

Larbre34 wrote: »

Everyone far too sensitive as usual.

So you think it's okay to call someone's parent, friend or sibling a 'vegetable' because they now have dementia or Alzheimers? Would you be happy for someone to call your mother or father that?

Larbre34

Quinn Squeaking Valedictorian wrote: »

So you think it's okay to call someone's parent, friend or sibling a 'vegetable' because they now have dementia or Alzheimers? Would you be happy for someone to call your mother or father that?

Christ yes. It'd save me the job.

Ted_YNWA

Larbre34 wrote: »

Everyone far too sensitive as usual.

Larbre34 wrote: »

Christ yes. It'd save me the job.

Mod

You might be comfortable with describing your family in blunt, crass terms but that does not mean everyone else is. Please be more respectful of the fact that others are not like this.

Do not post like this again if you want to remain active in this thread.

jmlad2020

Most people have had little or no contact with people with severe disabilities/ those in wheelchairs.
Unfortunately we seclude these people away from normal society and some exclude themselves.

I'm curteous towards those in Wheelchairs but if I didn't have a family member in one I'd be ignorant too.

It isn't rude it's being uneducated. The same way if an Irish person went to a strict Asian country where it is polite and respectful to bow your head when meeting someone.

Pauliedragon

Unfortunately the caring in the world has gone out the window. It was going long before covid but the virus has made it worse. It's a dod eat dog world at the moment and I can't see it changing.

Zebra3

Quinn Squeaking Valedictorian wrote: »

I just pushed the wheelchair forward

Were you in a scene from The Office?

AlejGuzman68

That is terrible treatment from a Doctor. But not surprising, a few Doctors I have seen over time, their bedside manner is non-existent.

pgj2015

Pauliedragon wrote: »

Unfortunately the caring in the world has gone out the window. It was going long before covid but the virus has made it worse. It's a dod eat dog world at the moment and I can't see it changing.

I disagree. what about that old man in the UK who raised 12 million for the NHS?

people who did shopping for elderly people in their neighbourhood during covid?

plenty of people are still helping others and this wont change.

Surreptitious

jmlad2020 wrote: »

Most people have had little or no contact with people with severe disabilities/ those in wheelchairs.
Unfortunately we seclude these people away from normal society and some exclude themselves.

I'm curteous towards those in Wheelchairs but if I didn't have a family member in one I'd be ignorant too.

It isn't rude it's being uneducated. The same way if an Irish person went to a strict Asian country where it is polite and respectful to bow your head when meeting someone.

Are you living under a rock? I've met loads of people in wheelchairs. Same as the rest of us usually if they are in college or in the pub with you or out and about. You do get disabled people who might not manage those things but it wouldn't be because of their legs, it would be a separate disability. Nothing to do with cultural difference whatsoever. It's usually just someone who can't walk without one.

pgj2015

I have a friend in a wheelchair. well hes not really a friend, I don't really like him actually.

jmlad2020

Surreptitious wrote: »

Are you living under a rock? I've met loads of people in wheelchairs. Same as the rest of us usually if they are in college or in the pub with you or out and about. You do get disabled people who might not manage those things but it wouldn't be because of their legs, it would be a separate disability. Nothing to do with cultural difference whatsoever. It's usually just someone who can't walk without one.

Right. On any given day on the Luas you might see one person in a wheelchair for every what.. 600 to 1000 able bodied people? I can't say I've seen too many on the streets of Dublin or any other town in Ireland.

Imagine introducing your average primary school class to someone in a wheelchair. They wouldn't know what to do. They'd look at the person with a confused and probably awkward look. Uneducated.

Surreptitious

jmlad2020 wrote: »

Right. On any given day on the Luas you might see one person in a wheelchair for every what.. 600 to 1000 able bodied people? I can't say I've seen too many on the streets of Dublin or any other town in Ireland.

Imagine introducing your average primary school class to someone in a wheelchair. They wouldn't know what to do. They'd look at the person with a confused and probably awkward look. Uneducated.

They would be children? Dublin again. There is a whole country outside Dublin. It's nothing to do with education, it would be ignorance. Like that doctor was obviously highly educated?

Stihl waters

Surreptitious wrote: »

Are you living under a rock? I've met loads of people in wheelchairs. Same as the rest of us usually if they are in college or in the pub with you or out and about. You do get disabled people who might not manage those things but it wouldn't be because of their legs, it would be a separate disability. Nothing to do with cultural difference whatsoever. It's usually just someone who can't walk without one.

I'm not living under a rock but I cant think of the last time I've met a person in a wheelchair, come to think of it I dont know anyone in a wheelchair either

Stihl waters

AlejGuzman68 wrote: »

That is terrible treatment from a Doctor. But not surprising, a few Doctors I have seen over time, their bedside manner is non-existent.

Doctors are people like us all, I dont go to the doctor hoping he's going to be friendly, I want him to diagnose the problem and help me fix it, his bedside manner is irrelevant

jmlad2020

Surreptitious wrote: »

They would be children? Dublin again. There is a whole country outside Dublin. It's nothing to do with education, it would be ignorance. Like that doctor was obviously highly educated?

Children grow up to be adults... The Doctor was once a child. If a child grows up with poor social skills you can bet that same child will have poor social skills as an adult. It doesn't magically appear. Education.

I'm from the country. I used Dublin as the precipice... I'd imagine it is the most Wheelchair friendly of all places in Ireland... and has the best facilities etc..

It's totally education. Luckily with the success of the Paralympics and TV presenters in Wheelchairs (frequently seen on the UK Television) people are becoming more EDUCATED.

AlejGuzman68

Stihl waters wrote: »

I'm not living under a rock but I cant think of the last time I've met a person in a wheelchair, come to think of it I dont know anyone in a wheelchair either

Your interaction with people with a disability would fare little in comparison to a medically trained person.

Mules

It's not just people with disabilities either, some elderly people use wheel chairs too. I don't know how more people aren't used to seeing people in wheel chairs.

Stihl waters

AlejGuzman68 wrote: »

Your interaction with people with a disability would fare little in comparison to a medically trained person.

Very true, a bit disappointing for a health professional to ignore a patient in a wheelchair, you would think they would know better

Snipp

I'd see it as a reasonable and probable conclusion to assume that you were her carer.

AlejGuzman68

Stihl waters wrote: »

Very true, a but disappointing for a health professional to ignore a patient in a wheelchair, you would think they would know better

I agree with you on that aspect.

gormdubhgorm

Mules wrote: »

Its bizarre, I wonder why people do it.

1) From a practical point of view the person in the wheelchair is not at eye level to the person standing. So psychologically people who are walking/able bodied treat the person as if they are a child.

2) There can be an assumption that a person in a wheelchair is incapable or lacks intelligence. Which is an old stereotype.

3) Many able bodied people are not used to talking to people in wheelchairs and they panic. They do not know what to do.

4) In the scenario of an able bodied person with another person with a wheelchair. It is automatically assumed that it is an 'invalid' and carer relationship. And the carer 'speaks' for the person in the chair. Which is what I assume that the doctor in the OP's scenario thought.

Despite all this disabled equality talk and treating people as equal etc, Which sounds good in theory. But when many people are faced with it on a practical level, it can all go out the window. Because of many reasons some of which are listed above.

AlejGuzman68

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

1) From a practical point of view the person in the wheelchair is not at eye level to the person standing. So psychologically people who are walking/able bodied treat the person as if they are a child.

2) There can be an assumption that a person in a wheelchair is incapable or lacks intelligence. Which is an old stereotype.

3) Many able bodied people are not used to talking to people in wheelchairs and they panic. They do not know what to do.

4) In the scenario of an able bodied person with another person with a wheelchair. It is automatically assumed that it is an 'invalid' and carer relationship. And the carer 'speaks' for the person in the chair. Which is what I assume that the doctor in the OP's scenario thought.

Despite all this disabled equality talk and treating people as equal etc, Which sounds good in theory. But when many people are faced with it on a practical level, it can all go out the window. Because of many reasons some of which are listed above.

But for a Doctor to at first know his/her patients faculties and ailments. Interact with them first and not who wheeled them into the office? How then are they going to establish a baseline of care for the patient, if they just right off the bat assume they are invalid? To me that seems like half hearted care.

Lesalare

jmlad2020 wrote: »

It isn't rude it's being uneducated. The same way if an Irish person went to a strict Asian country where it is polite and respectful to bow your head when meeting someone.

What a load of toss.

It IS rude. Unless someone has lived under a rock their entire life or is younger than 8 - if not less, seeing someone in a wheelchair shouldn't send them into a state of sheer panic and anxiety. We are all brought up in schools and at home here being told that sadly some people need a wheelchair to be mobile. And in general it's seen more than not as a means to be mobile due to unfortunate injury.

I'm dumbfounded at your comment. Likening a wheelchair-bound person (and excusing) the ignorant reaction to such by others, as akin to not being familiar with cultural differences, is baffling.

Snipp

AlejGuzman68 wrote: »

But for a Doctor to at first know his/her patients faculties and ailments. Interact with them first and not who wheeled them into the office? How then are they going to establish a baseline of care for the patient, if they just right off the bat assume they are invalid? To me that seems like half hearted care.

They were in the helix getting the vaccine. It was unlikely a doctor and they are not their patient.

McCrack

Surreptitious wrote: »

A vegetable is something you put in a stew not a living, breathing person regardless of disability. FS

A person can be in a vegetative state though

AlejGuzman68

Snipp wrote: »

They were in the helix getting the vaccine. It was unlikely a doctor and they are not their patient.

And you know this how?

AndrewJRenko

jmlad2020 wrote: »

Imagine introducing your average primary school class to someone in a wheelchair. They wouldn't know what to do. They'd look at the person with a confused and probably awkward look. Uneducated.

Your average primary school class would do a far better job at treating a person in a wheelchair with basic respect and humanity than many of the posters on this thread.

Stihl waters wrote: »

Doctors are people like us all, I dont go to the doctor hoping he's going to be friendly, I want him to diagnose the problem and help me fix it, his bedside manner is irrelevant

It's not about him being friendly. It is about him being professional. A professional response would be to engage directly with his patient. Anything else is unprofessional.

Snipp wrote: »

I'd see it as a reasonable and probable conclusion to assume that you were her carer.

Why would you assume that the person in the wheelchair is incapable of answering basic questions? A wheelchair tells you nothing about the person's intellectual capacity.

Snipp

AlejGuzman68 wrote: »

And you know this how?

It says they were in the helix getting the jab in the opening post. It was unlikely a doctor as the HSE are paying low rates for vaccinating relatively speaking - its honestly a fraction of a doctor's salary on offer.

AlejGuzman68

IMO, any health care provider who just assumes a patient who cannot walk into their practice, incapable of thinking or talking for themselves. Without first interacting with them is a crappy provider. We all know where assumptions get you in life.

Stihl waters

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It's not about him being friendly. It is about him being professional. A professional response would be to engage directly with his patient. Anything else is unprofessional.

You're correct of course but I was addressing the point made by the poster about them having met doctors whose bedside manner left a lot to be desired

Pauliedragon

pgj2015 wrote: »

I disagree. what about that old man in the UK who raised 12 million for the NHS?

people who did shopping for elderly people in their neighbourhood during covid?

plenty of people are still helping others and this wont change.

I agree with you but in my experience with the public through work is the opposite. Most are great people but the amount of abuse that's being handed out in the last few years in insane. One example I'll give is I helped a woman who was clearly in distress in the middle of Cork city from booze/drugs so I brought her to the Simon charity so she could be looked after yet anyone I told what happened said I should've just left her there. What I mean is the level of caring seems to be getting lower.

Hollister2020

Can totallly relate from a personal experience about 4 years ago.. i was in a wheelchair after a surgery and was at a shopping center. Went to stock up on some of my almost used up makeup products. I went to the area i needed to be in.. knew exactly what i wanted.. the woman at the till area looked straight at me and looked right away before i could say what i wanted.. she looked back.. ignored me again.. it took for a woman from a seperate booth area to shout to the woman amd say.. "that girl is waiting or your help" .. i purchased my products and left feeling like absolute **** ! Still do whenever the memory pops back up !

Lesalare

Hollister2020 wrote: »

Can totallly relate from a personal experience about 4 years ago.. i was in a wheelchair after a surgery and was at a shopping center. Went to stock up on some of my almost used up makeup products. I went to the area i needed to be in.. knew exactly what i wanted.. the woman at the till area looked straight at me and looked right away before i could say what i wanted.. she looked back.. ignored me again.. it took for a woman from a seperate booth area to shout to the woman amd say.. "that girl is waiting or your help" .. i purchased my products and left feeling like absolute **** ! Still do whenever the memory pops back up !

Gawd. Sorry to hear that. People can be right sh*ts.

It's got to be due to the utter fear of being stuck in a wheelchair long term. It's projection stuff due to their own worries and fears to be in that situ themselves.

Panthro

Surely OP the best thing for you to do is stand in front of the doctor and say very slowly and clearly "HELL OHHH DOC TORRR.. THE PATIENT WILL SEEEE YOU NOWWWW...!
{perhaps throw in some hand gestures, point to your mum for "patient" and your eye for "see". Maybe even a thumbs up sign at the end to ensure they're OK with it.)
They'll ask what you are u at, you'll say your mums fine bar her mobility, you were just making sure the doctor was fine also before letting them near yer mum.

Lesalare

Panthro wrote: »

Surely OP the best thing for you to do is stand in front of the doctor and say very slowly and clearly "HELL OHHH DOC TORRR.. THE PATIENT WILL SEEEE YOU NOWWWW...!
{perhaps throw in some hand gestures, point to your mum for "patient" and your eye for "see". Maybe even a thumbs up sign at the end to ensure they're OK with it.)
They'll ask what you are u at, you'll say your mums fine bar her mobility, you were just making sure the doctor was fine also before letting them near yer mum.

Alt maybe the OP should have started lurching into manic sign language at the doctor, and then their Mum could say "Oh sorry doc, let me translate the reason I am here, which is clearly for my Covid vaccine...".

Alfred123

Quinn Squeaking Valedictorian wrote: »

My mother is a highly intelligent person. She plays sudoku, does the Irish Times Crossword every day, is hugely up on current affairs, plays Bridge online etc.

But because she's lost the use of her legs people seem to assume she's list her faculties as well.

So rude and patronising.

I guess a doctor should know better.

I used crutches for the last few years after breaking my leg - a non union femur. 2-3 years of utter discomfort, pain killers, misery etc

Thankfully, i can walk again. I have learned what its like to be an invalid and so have more empathy for those similarly afflicted. I feel more at ease talking to folk with disabilities coz I have direct experience

I used to resent being singled out for special attention, being allowed to queue jump etc.. but i get that people around the invalid can feel awkward. They are not sure how to behave - afraid that an act of kindness might appear condescending, afraid of seeming "too helpful" thus making the invalid feel even more useless

The doctor in the OP above is learning also, i guess. You did right to let your Mam speak for herself tho

But in general, i think its simply people feeling awkward as opposed to not wanting to help

OscarMIlde

Hollister2020 wrote: »

Can totallly relate from a personal experience about 4 years ago.. i was in a wheelchair after a surgery and was at a shopping center. Went to stock up on some of my almost used up makeup products. I went to the area i needed to be in.. knew exactly what i wanted.. the woman at the till area looked straight at me and looked right away before i could say what i wanted.. she looked back.. ignored me again.. it took for a woman from a seperate booth area to shout to the woman amd say.. "that girl is waiting or your help" .. i purchased my products and left feeling like absolute **** ! Still do whenever the memory pops back up !

Had a similar experience following major elective dental surgery.I could barely speak afterwards due to the nerves affected from the surgery, as well as looking horrendous, from bruising and swelling. It was absolutely shocking the difference in treatment before the surgery when I could articulate clearly and looked fine and how I was treated afterwards. Nurses would walk off and ignore me because they couldn't be bothered waiting for me to get the words out. If they deigned to help me at all, they spoke very loudly and slowly as if the fact that I had difficulty speaking meant I was also now incapable of understanding them. Staff giving out cloths for washing in the morning would never give me anything as I looked so dreadful and they didn't want to look at me. I remember a really nice lady across from me told them I needed some washcloths too, and the guy looked in my direction, saw what I looked like, and walked away making sure to avoid any further contact.

I knew disabled people were a huge target of fear and loathing from people, as I have a brother with a severe intellectual disability, but to experience it first hand was something else entirely.

To be fair also, all my doctors were lovely to me, as was one nurse on call at night, who spent the guts of an hour helping to clean me, when I hadn't even asked her to. The rest however were an absolute disgrace, and should have never opted to work in a 'caring' profession.

Lesalare

OscarMIlde wrote: »

Had a similar experience following major elective dental surgery.I could barely speak afterwards due to the nerves affected from the surgery, as well as looking horrendous, from bruising and swelling. It was absolutely shocking the difference in treatment before the surgery when I could articulate clearly and looked fine and how I was treated afterwards. Nurses would walk off and ignore me because they couldn't be bothered waiting for me to get the words out. If they deigned to help me at all, they spoke very loudly and slowly as if the fact that I had difficulty speaking meant I was also now incapable of understanding them. Staff giving out cloths for washing in the morning would never give me anything as I looked so dreadful and they didn't want to look at me. I remember a really nice lady across from me told them I needed some washcloths too, and the guy looked in my direction, saw what I looked like, and walked away making sure to avoid any further contact.

I knew disabled people were a huge target of fear and loathing from people, as I have a brother with a severe intellectual disability, but to experience it first hand was something else entirely.

To be fair also, all my doctors were lovely to me, as was one nurse on call at night, who spent the guts of an hour helping to clean me, when I hadn't even asked her to. The rest however were an absolute disgrace, and should have never opted to work in a 'caring' profession.

Jesus. Seriously sorry to hear that. Humans are right pigs at times.

Alfred123

OscarMIlde wrote: »

To be fair also, all my doctors were lovely to me, as was one nurse on call at night, who spent the guts of an hour helping to clean me, when I hadn't even asked her to. The rest however were an absolute disgrace, and should have never opted to work in a 'caring' profession.

I can relate to this. My accident happened in a foreign country. I often felt like discharging myself from the hospital such was the level of 'abuse' i got from some nursing staff. Doctors would talk me out of leaving.

Like you, I also came across some very caring folk in the place that made up for the negatives

I was also very afraid of falling into self-pity - of giving up.

Great way to learn humility

c68zapdsm5i1ru

Snipp wrote: »

I'd see it as a reasonable and probable conclusion to assume that you were her carer.

Why?
And even if I was why would that mean she can't speak for and about herself?

Alfred123

Quinn Squeaking Valedictorian wrote: »

Why?
And even if I was why would that mean she can't speak for and about herself?

Simply telling the doctor, nicely, that your Mum can speak for herself would have sorted it. No fuss

Perhaps the Doc was not in sharpest form vaccinating patient after patient and was having a bad day - trying his best to welcome you and your Mum - who knows.

When I was stuck on crutches for 3 years, i erred on the side of caution .. allowing for people's, awkwardness, not expecting 1st class treatment.
Nobody died

Feisar

I never ignore, always stare.