Government won't fund Dublin whitewater rafting attraction

osarusan

From the IT: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/government-refuses-to-fund-25m-dublin-whitewater-rafting-project-1.4516220

Controversial plans for a €25 million whitewater rafting attraction in Dublin’s docklands have been delivered a major setback after the Government refused a request to fund the project.
Dublin City Council sought €19 million towards the cost of the George’s Dock scheme under the Urban Regeneration and Development Fund (URDF), a €2 billion pot set aside for the rejuvenation of Irish cities and large towns.
However, Minister for Local Government Darragh O’Brien, whose department oversees the fund, has turned down the request.
...
The council confirmed the latest estimated cost for the attraction, which it insists would be a major tourist draw, has reached €25.4 million. When first proposed, the council estimated it would cost €12 million.

What's the story with this? Who's it for?

Valuable public attraction or playground for those who can afford it?


Overall, would it be a positive or negative development for this to be shelved probably indefinitely?

EDIT: As a non-Dub and non-Dublin dweller, it always seemed to be a pretty unusual project, strange focus and very central location, never imagined there was much demand for it, but might be way off on that.

Eric Cartman

One of the largest wastes of money the city could propose, glad its not being funded

yabadabado

Finally a bit of good news.

KevRossi

Owen Keegan is the city manager. He's a keen kayaker. He wants this, there is no public demand for it.

Join the dots.

Mav11

Started at €12m now up to €25m. I see another children's hospital or NBP in the making.

Leroy42

It strikes as the usual lack of imagination. The costs do seem very high, but Dublin should be looking at trying new things. Just because it doesn't align with the usual activities doesn't mean we shouldn't be looking at something like this.

Would it bring tourism for example? Would it provide a new activity for the people of Dublin (and wider of course)?

screamer

It’d be brought in way over budget, way behind time and for what benefit? The country is flat broke, this is just a waste of money we simply don’t have.

Nozebleed

they should spend the 25m cleaning up the canals..

EmmetSpiceland

Was a bizarre “proposal”. A waterslide park would have made more sense and even that would have been a bad idea

KevRossi

They could put a ramp in at the weir in Islandbridge for a more sustainable option. No need to pump water, there's a continuous supply provided by nature.

Here's an example of the same in Prague. The one marked 'existing course' could be built at a fraction of the price and be open to all, not just those with the money to do it.



Video of it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKFCedRcVYk

Eric Cartman

Leroy42 wrote: »

It strikes as the usual lack of imagination. The costs do seem very high, but Dublin should be looking at trying new things. Just because it doesn't align with the usual activities doesn't mean we shouldn't be looking at something like this.

Would it bring tourism for example? Would it provide a new activity for the people of Dublin (and wider of course)?

That area is saturated with tech workers and tourists, there are hotels, shops and cafe’s, prices for everything are already higher. Last thing the area needed was a new attraction.

If you were talking about putting this up by say fairview as part of a regeneration project to boost the area then perhaps, but GCD definitely doesnt need it

suicide_circus

We're in dire financial straits, now is not the time for vanity projects.

timmyntc

Would have been a good use of a manky wet hole in the ground in city center Dublin.

However people ran with the idea that it was exclusively for team-building exercises for google employees or something similar, and once the outrage mob picked up on that it was dead in the water.

The country does need a whitewater/slalom course of some description - we have a lot of whitewater/slalom athletes and all have to travel to the UK to nottingham or cardiff to avail of their courses.
It would be cheaper to fit an existing river with a course, but the problem then is
1) flows are not constant - will require a reservoir of some sort upstream to keep the water going through summer.
2) fisheries & environmental activists would never allow it. Rivers are too protected to do something like that

Which leaves a standalone course as the only option - and sure we cant build that in Dublin city where most of the population would have access to it, so we build it in a greenfield site in the middle of nowhere?

Leroy42

Certainly, as I country, we should be making far more use of water sports.

We do very little of it, and it isn't something that is a part of everyday. We are more than happy to spend millions on more football pitches, swimming pools, visitor centres etc.

Ireland could be a fantastic water sports destination and centre.

Is this the scheme to start that, doesn't look like it in terms of costs etc. But I think it is a shame if it is shelved and the entire idea was forgotten about.

Eric Cartman

Leroy42 wrote: »

Certainly, as I country, we should be making far more use of water sports.

We do very little of it, and it isn't something that is a part of everyday. We are more than happy to spend millions on more football pitches, swimming pools, visitor centres etc.

Ireland could be a fantastic water sports destination and centre.

Is this the scheme to start that, doesn't look like it in terms of costs etc. But I think it is a shame if it is shelved and the entire idea was forgotten about.

We have loads of great space at the weir in lucan and islandbridge if we wanted to do something, areas that would benefit loads more than gcd.

I agree we need more watersports facilities but we also have to fix a massive PI insurance issue with it

Jinglejangle69

What about the homeless???

Eric Cartman

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

What about the homeless???

It certainly would have attracted more of them to the area alright.

KevRossi

timmyntc wrote: »

It would be cheaper to fit an existing river with a course, but the problem then is
1) flows are not constant - will require a reservoir of some sort upstream to keep the water going through summer.
2) fisheries & environmental activists would never allow it. Rivers are too protected to do something like that

Which leaves a standalone course as the only option - and sure we cant build that in Dublin city where most of the population would have access to it, so we build it in a greenfield site in the middle of nowhere?

Islandbridge has a constant flow of water from the Hydro station in Leixlip.

It's also far more accessible to the majority of the country than driving the whole way into the city centre.

Kayak runs can be built subject to EIA's and EIS's. If you're building on an existing weir then most of the work is done. In fact, stick a salmon pass on the other side of the weirs while you're at it. Most environmentalists would tell you they are badly needed on many rivers in the country.

Instead of throwing €25 million into one project that will cost a fortune to run (pumping water), why not build several around the country in sites that are suitable? Sure, build a centres of excellence for the country if it takes off in a few years, but the current plan is nonsense and a waste of resources that could be better spent on other kayaking facilites.

The existing site in the Docks could be developed along with the CHQ as an arts/ents/sports area for all, not just for those who have serious money to spend.

As I said above, it's a personal vanity project of Owen Keegan.

Beechwoodspark

Eric Cartman wrote: »

One of the largest wastes of money the city could propose, glad its not being funded

When I first heard of this being proposed I assumed it was either a Waterford whispers type parody or else an April fools joke or something

How Dublin City council felt this was an appropriate project worth pursuing is beyond me.

One of the earlier posts said that the city manager is a keen kayaker - is this true?? Was this his pet project that he was determined to get done??

Crazy if true.

retalivity

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

What about the homeless???

Much like bishops and sci-fi, the Homeless love rafting.

Dante

FFG would lose my vote if this shíte went ahead. The council are completely out of touch with reality, how can they justify spending a minimum €25m on this? Seriously, its up there with the Bertie Bowl in levels of dellusion.

SteM

timmyntc wrote: »

Would have been a good use of a manky wet hole in the ground in city center Dublin.

However people ran with the idea that it was exclusively for team-building exercises for google employees or something similar, and once the outrage mob picked up on that it was dead in the water.

The country does need a whitewater/slalom course of some description - we have a lot of whitewater/slalom athletes and all have to travel to the UK to nottingham or cardiff to avail of their courses.
It would be cheaper to fit an existing river with a course, but the problem then is
1) flows are not constant - will require a reservoir of some sort upstream to keep the water going through summer.
2) fisheries & environmental activists would never allow it. Rivers are too protected to do something like that

Which leaves a standalone course as the only option - and sure we cant build that in Dublin city where most of the population would have access to it, so we build it in a greenfield site in the middle of nowhere?

Not really my type of sport but if it's needed then fair enough. That area of the docks is certainly not the place for it though whether it's a manky wet hole in the ground or not.

biko

KevRossi wrote: »

Owen Keegan is the city manager. He's a keen kayaker. He wants this, there is no public demand for it.

Join the dots.

Apparently it's not relevant...

Dublin City Council have said chief executive Owen Keegan's love of kayaking is "not relevant" to plans to build a €22m white water rafting centre at the IFSC.
The council boss' love of canoing was highlight last week on RTE's Prime Time.

He has been a keen kayaker for almost 50 years and completed the Liffey descent 25 times although he has not competed in the race since 2017.
Plans for the state-of-the-art centre have been met with criticism from the public, with many questioning the need for the facility in the midst of a housing crisis across the country.

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/owen-keegan-whitewater-rafting-docklands-17385139

timmyntc

biko wrote: »

Apparently it's not relevant...

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/owen-keegan-whitewater-rafting-docklands-17385139

There could well be enough public demand to justify it - there is the floodable-street for fire service training, rafting is open to anyone in the public, and in terms of actual kayakers there are ~5000 members of canoeing ireland, and many more who arent members at all.

Not to mention professional athletes who cant train in this country due to the lack of a proper course & summer whitewater.

gmisk

What a waste of money I dread to think the money already wasted on planning etc...

Former Former Former

Mav11 wrote: »

Started at €12m now up to €25m. I see another children's hospital or NBP in the making.

Yep, serious alarm bells there. 25 million still only the 'estimated' cost, probably tack another 10m onto that for the actual cost.

Let DCC run with it if they want, not a good use of central govt money.

a very cool kid

Former Former Former wrote: »

Yep, serious alarm bells there. 25 million still only the 'estimated' cost, probably tack another 10m onto that for the actual cost.

Let DCC run with it if they want, not a good use of central govt money.

Yeah I agree with that - should be a public private partnership I reckon. DCC provide land, someone else builds it and gets to operate it for x number of years - keeping the revenue in that time.

Apoapsis Rex

Now if we can only stop the development of 'The Giant', the moving statue/advertising board.

Beechwoodspark

Some idiot on RTÉ radio at the moment saying she is distraught this isn’t happening

She said ppl could go for a swim in it before and after work ...what planet is this one on!

ec18

KevRossi wrote: »

Islandbridge has a constant flow of water from the Hydro station in Leixlip.

no it doesn't. As someone who kayaks the liffey most of the year, the flows are seasonal (winter good / summer bad ) and for an event (such as the liffey descent) a release is needed from leixlip there which depending on the water level in the reservoir isn't a guarantee. Saying there is a constant flow of water for the purpose of a slalom course is frankly false.

is_that_so

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Some idiot on RTÉ radio at the moment saying she is distraught this isn’t happening

She said ppl could go for a swim in it before and after work ...what planet is this one on!

This one!

Picture yourself in a boat on a river
With tangerine trees and marmalade skies
Somebody calls you, you answer quite slowly
A girl with kaleidoscope eyes.

While it doesn't affect me, I'm pleased to see this hairbrained scheme will not be financed from the public purse.

ec18

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Some idiot on RTÉ radio at the moment saying she is distraught this isn’t happening

She said ppl could go for a swim in it before and after work ...what planet is this one on!

one that realises that some an are that is densely populated and has a high concentration of workers might us an amenity near them?

The opposition to this is purely from those that are perpetually outraged. Why can't we have some nice things in Dublin? The whole bloody news cycle is depressing enough lately without this whataboutery for something you are outraged at. Are we supposed to put everything on hold until the country is perfect like?

Owen Keegan might be an advocate because he's aware that there is a need due to being a kayaker? Might be nice to have some sport amenity that's not a field......and caters to people who aren't into team sports .

Fred Cryton

Only in ireland would we try to build a kayaking facility in the middle of the Central Business District of the capital city.

It's like we're trying to set the city centre up as a leisure facility for the local welfare class.

Are the rest of us supposed to bring our equipment on the bus or maybe Eamon Ryan wants us to cycle into town with it?

It is so absurd and laughable and very very Irish.

Fred Cryton

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Only in ireland would we try to build a kayaking facility in the middle of the Central Business District of the capital city.

It's like we're trying to set the city centre up as a leisure facility for the local welfare class.

Are the rest of us supposed to bring our equipment on the bus or maybe Eamon Ryan wants us to cycle into town with it?

It’s also ***** drum roll ***** the centre the city for tourists and, well, everybody.

I presume you could rent kayaks. Just a thought.

It is so absurd and laughable and very very Irish.

What’s very Irish is the opposition to something fun. And the use of that pernicious phrase.


By the way if London introduced something like this, or New York or whatever, the kind of Irish people who oppose something like this would be asking why can’t we do it.

BattleCorp

Good idea but it's totally the wrong location. It should be built on the outskirts of the city as you could have suitable parking etc. and it would cost much less to build there.

BattleCorp

BattleCorp wrote: »

Good idea but it's totally the wrong location. It should be built on the outskirts of the city as you could have suitable parking etc. and it would cost much less to build there.

London has one in the outskirts. Not sure I agree though as tourists aren’t going to take a trek out to something like that

is_that_so

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Only in ireland would we try to build a kayaking facility in the middle of the Central Business District of the capital city.

It's like we're trying to set the city centre up as a leisure facility for the local welfare class.

Are the rest of us supposed to bring our equipment on the bus or maybe Eamon Ryan wants us to cycle into town with it?

It is so absurd and laughable and very very Irish.

It's DCC doing all the crazy, Keegan and the councillors take it in turn to come up with crazy ideas.

Donald Trump

retalivity wrote: »

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

What about the homeless???

Much like bishops and sci-fi, the Homeless love rafting.

And drifting

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

London has one in the outskirts. Not sure I agree though as tourists aren’t going to take a trek out to something like that

Not sure tourists are going to trek to Dublin for it full stop. €25m buys a lot of other more urgently needed facilities for the population who live there.

Good! Sort out the social issues in the area before considering vanity projects like this.

The place would have been an absolute mess. This is a 100% Owen Keegans vanity project. Akin to the Bertie Bowl.

Start approving high rise buildings instead of stupid ideas like this. I bet an outrageous amount of time has been wasted on it.

ted1

Eric Cartman wrote: »

One of the largest wastes of money the city could propose, glad its not being funded

Rubbish. It’ll be great for the city.

Kermit.de.frog

is_that_so wrote: »

Not sure tourists are going to trek to Dublin for it full stop. €25m buys a lot of other more urgently needed facilities for the population who live there.

With that attitude nothing would ever be done to improve the city.

Something like this would be a lot better than the derelict hole in the ground right in the middle of the city.

Dublin suffers from a mix of begrudgery, small time thinking and lack of ambition.

That is why the city has always been a boring, undistinguished, unedifying place and will remain so.

Everything is moaned about, everything is shot down.

It's suppose to be a capital city ffs but look at the state of it.

BattleCorp

Deleted User wrote: »

London has one in the outskirts. Not sure I agree though as tourists aren’t going to take a trek out to something like that

Having something like that on the outskirts of a city is a good idea, not in the middle of the city. People kyaking usually have vans and trailers for the gear. That's a lot of parking spaces needed in a prime city centre location.

Don't get me wrong, something like this would be a great amenity but it's totally the wrong location.

fmlarnapairce

ideal location is the network of canals around Galway, fed by corrib, always high flow.

BattleCorp

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

With that attitude nothing would ever be done to improve the city.

Something like this would be a lot better than the derelict hole in the ground right in the middle of the city.

Dublin suffers from a mix of begrudgery, small time thinking and lack of ambition.

That is why the city has always been a boring, undistinguished, unedifying place and will remain so.

Everything is moaned about, everything is shot down.

It's suppose to be a capital city ffs but look at the state of it.

Your reply was to someone else but I'll address the begrudgery aspect.

I want to see Dublin develop and that area could do with some development. But the kayak thing is the wrong development for there. Yes, it's needed but not in that location. Locate it somewhere on the outskirts where there is more space for it.

I'm coming at it from a common sense point of view, not a begrudgery point of view.

ted1

BattleCorp wrote: »

Good idea but it's totally the wrong location. It should be built on the outskirts of the city as you could have suitable parking etc. and it would cost much less to build there.

I’d cost less as there’s a smaller catchment area. Having it in town by the DART and LUAS Line allows access , they’d have equipment for people who don’t want to bring their own.
Not everyone drives.

ted1

fmlarnapairce wrote: »

ideal location is the network of canals around Galway, fed by corrib, always high flow.

What’s the population of Galway??

BattleCorp

BattleCorp wrote: »

Your reply was to someone else but I'll address the begrudgery aspect.

I want to see Dublin develop and that area could do with some development. But the kayak thing is the wrong development for there. Yes, it's needed but not in that location. Locate it somewhere on the outskirts where there is more space for it.

I'm coming at it from a common sense point of view, not a begrudgery point of view.

Agree with this. That land is ideal for a high rise building.

Additionally there are very troublesome issues in the area with youth. I could see a lot of hassle and vandalism which would eventually turn it into a white elephant. The 25 million would be much better spent on local community initiatives.

salmocab

Connor Chubby Karate wrote: »

Agree with this. That land is ideal for a high rise building.

Additionally there are very troublesome issues in the area with youth. I could see a lot of hassle and vandalism which would eventually turn it into a white elephant. The 25 million would be much better spent on local community initiatives.

That land is mainly already water. There won’t be a high rise ever built there or even a building on the water part

Jinglejangle69

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

What about the homeless???

The homeless are an excuse when people don’t want things built.

Sir Oxman

The absolute disgusting sh1tstorm that is College Green especially in front of Trinity and the Old Parliament needs urgent action.
Maybe pump those funds into the above along with actually having a garda presence in the city centre to flush the open drug dealing/aggressiveness out of the place where tourists actually do go?