Neighbour wall is too high

hottea2019

Hi all,
We just bought a south-facing semi-detached house. During the viewings, we did not pay attention to the neighbour back-garden wall which blocks all late afternoon's sunlight (when the sun goes to the west) to our garden . The wall is pretty high (approximately 3 metres) and has been there long before we bought the house.
Is there any chance we can politely ask the neighbour to knock half of the wall which is a shared wall? The already have some bamboo trees next to that wall so even without that wall, we can't look into their house.
We are willing for the work and wonder how much it will cost?
Any suggestion?
Thanks

Wisesmurf

You need to talk to the Neighbour. You don't know why it's there.
Best case the neighbour hates it too and is delighted to bring it to a reasonable size
Worst case the neighbour is a mentalist and that's only the start of your problems.

Cost - not too much - Demo, a skip and capping if necessary.

Figure out the why first...

Cuddlesworth

Won't hurt to ask, you would assume it blocks their morning sun. It might not have even been put up by the neighbours, might have been put up the previous owners. The bamboo might be so they don't have to look at it.

MrMusician18

A 3m high external wall is not something you erect for fun. It's a serious bit of engineering (it at least it should be), so it was certainly put the for a reason.

Like other posters have said, once you know why it was put up it will better inform you as to how would they might be too partially taking it down.

Eric Cartman

MrMusician18 wrote: »

A 3m high external wall is not something you erect for fun. It's a serious bit of engineering (it at least it should be), so it was certainly put the for a reason.

Like other posters have said, once you know why it was put up it will better inform you as to how would they might be too partially taking it down.

this is it. I bet it was put up due to a security concern, one which may well remain. You can ask, but if they say no... you bought the house like that .. don't take it any further.

Del2005

MrMusician18 wrote: »

A 3m high external wall is not something you erect for fun. It's a serious bit of engineering (it at least it should be), so it was certainly put the for a reason.

Like other posters have said, once you know why it was put up it will better inform you as to how would they might be too partially taking it down.

Plenty of 3m high walls in estates that aren't built on level ground, there's one below my apartment. A 1m difference it ground level isn't extreme and then a 2m wall on the high side.

jimmycrackcorm

You could look into what planning permission was given for the wall as I don't believe it can be higher than 2m.
Then talk to the neighbour about getting it reduced.

hottea2019

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Won't hurt to ask, you would assume it blocks their morning sun. It might not have even been put up by the neighbours, might have been put up the previous owners. The bamboo might be so they don't have to look at it.

Yes. The wall and the bamboo block all morning sunlight to their garden so we don't know why they decided to put up such a high wall like that.

hottea2019

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

You could look into what planning permission was given for the wall as I don't believe it can be higher than 2m.
Then talk to the neighbour about getting it reduced.

Is there any planning permission to build a back-garden wall? How can we find it?

SmartinMartin

How do you know the neighbours built it? Could it have been your predecessor?

Calahonda52

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

You could look into what planning permission was given for the wall as I don't believe it can be higher than 2m.
Then talk to the neighbour about getting it reduced.

<= 2m requires no planning at rear

KildareP

Another thing to bear in mind is the sun is still quite low down in the sky towards the south/equator at this time of year.

In another month or two, it'll be much higher up and you'll get sunlight for a much greater period of the day.

hottea2019

Calahonda52 wrote: »

<= 2m requires no planning at rear

May I know where I can find that 2m regulation?

hottea2019

SmartinMartin wrote: »

How do you know the neighbours built it? Could it have been your predecessor?

The wall has 3 sides surrounding their back garden so we're pretty sure it was built by the neighbour or maybe their predecessor.

Way to make friends with the new neighbours!

karlitob

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

You could look into what planning permission was given for the wall as I don't believe it can be higher than 2m.
Then talk to the neighbour about getting it reduced.

I’m no expert but I thought there was something that if it’s greater than 5 years then there may be ‘unauthorised established use’. See below something that I raised with council re a local company and what they built on the road.

In other words, if they don’t want to knock it then you could start something you can’t finish. Thread carefully - especially if you like them.

When the issue of the sheds was previously investigated by Planning Enforcement, it was established that while they were unauthorised, they had had achieved a status of "established unauthorised use" by virtue of the time that they had been in situ. This meant that the Planning Authority was unable to initiate any enforcement action. However, in view of your correspondence the mattter will be examined by Planning Enforcement.

Doctors room ghost

If ye didn’t notice the walls in viewing the property it’s tough luck to ye now.
If I was the neighbors And ye landed over asking me to take down a boundary wall and ye fresh to a parish, I’d tell ye to fcuk right off.

awec

Maybe an obvious question but is your neighbour’s garden the same elevation as yours?

Ramasun

hottea2019 wrote: »

The wall has 3 sides surrounding their back garden so we're pretty sure it was built by the neighbour or maybe their predecessor.

It must affect other neighbours then too, maybe ask them about it first.

coolbeans

karlitob wrote: »

I’m no expert but I thought there was something that if it’s greater than 5 years then there may be ‘unauthorised established use’. See below something that I raised with council re a local company and what they built on the road.

In other words, if they don’t want to knock it then you could start something you can’t finish. Thread carefully - especially if you like them.

When the issue of the sheds was previously investigated by Planning Enforcement, it was established that while they were unauthorised, they had had achieved a status of "established unauthorised use" by virtue of the time that they had been in situ. This meant that the Planning Authority was unable to initiate any enforcement action. However, in view of your correspondence the mattter will be examined by Planning Enforcement.

The statute of limitations for unauthorised development is seven years. If it's up longer than that then planning has no relevance. I wouldn't be bothered even looking up the planning history if it's likely to be seven years old or older.

The 2m refers to exempted development for boundary walls. If it's higher than 2m that doesn't necessarily mean it was constructed without permission either. If I were the OP I'd be asking politely but expect very little from the neighbour. You bought the house 'as is'.

coolbeans

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

If ye didn’t notice the walls in viewing the property it’s tough luck to ye now.
If I was the neighbors And ye landed over asking me to take down a boundary wall and ye fresh to a parish, I’d tell ye to fcuk right off.

What they said but this time with diplomacy. :P

Cuddlesworth

hottea2019 wrote: »

The wall has 3 sides surrounding their back garden so we're pretty sure it was built by the neighbour or maybe their predecessor.

Thats different, if their garden is 3m all around and only their garden then it sounds very deliberate.

If I was you, I'd try to get chatting with the neighbour the other side of them and see if you can get some back story on it. Neighbours who do things like build 3m walls could very possibly be the antisocial kind.

coolbeans

Hard to see what any of that achieves apart from causing bother with the neighbour because the OP has not done their due diligence.

riclad

You viewed the house, if you did not notice a 3m wall its hard to complain about it.
its likely there for security and privacy.
my advice is do not mention it for at least 3 months, maybe get to know your neighbours.
i think its unlikely to be a way you could force someone to reduce the height of a wall that could be there for years before you moved in.
is there much difference to a 2m versus a 3m wall in terms of sunlight being blocked ?
its like buying a house beside a main road ,and then complaining about traffic noise.
i,d prefer to get on well with my neighbours than get into a dispute over 1 wall.

Xterminator

Hi Op

get to know the neighbours, try to get to know all of them. Once you have established a relationship, then you can enquire as to the history of the high wall. do not make your very 1st interaction with your neighbour something like this that could be contentious.

you have to live their for years. they could be your neighbours for ages to come, just make sure you dont get off on the wrong foot. there is a truth to the fact the house was like that when your purchased it, and you dont get to make a second 1st impression.

Pipmae

KildareP wrote: »

Another thing to bear in mind is the sun is still quite low down in the sky towards the south/equator at this time of year.

In another month or two, it'll be much higher up and you'll get sunlight for a much greater period of the day.

This is a very important point. I get sun in the rear corner of my garden until close to 8pm in June/July. It's gone just after 5.30pm/6pm at the moment as it's lower in the sky.

yourdeadwright

Hey Op

Id give you some advice here if you want to talk about it with them i'd send a letter and post it in the letter box yourself, Obviously with a return address or email or phone details
,
It will seems less confrontational and take the awkwardness out of the situation

Most importantly it give them time to think about there response ,
People can be awfully protective of there own home and rights , If you catch them off guard and they responded with a "feck off" they may be stubborn and not want to back down and friends and family will tell them "no you where right , there just blow in & so on"

A letter gives them space to breath and think about a reply and not feel backed into a corner,






Just arriving on someone door step to discuss something like that and catching them off guard will not go down well,

Id take this approach even pre covid

yourdeadwright

Also is the wall well built ? If not you could say your afraid of it collapsing on the kids or what not ?

yourdeadwright

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Also is the wall well built ? If not you could say your afraid of it collapsing on the kids or what not ?

Op: Hi, I’m your new neighbour, I think your wall could kill my kids, can you take it down please.

Neighbour: F**k off you idiot.

irelandrover

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Hey Op

Id give you some advice here if you want to talk about it with them i'd send a letter and post it in the letter box yourself, Obviously with a return address or email or phone details
,
It will seems less confrontational and take the awkwardness out of the situation

Most importantly it give them time to think about there response ,
People can be awfully protective of there own home and rights , If you catch them off guard and they responded with a "feck off" they may be stubborn and not want to back down and friends and family will tell them "no you where right , there just blow in & so on"

A letter gives them space to breath and think about a reply and not feel backed into a corner,






Just arriving on someone door step to discuss something like that and catching them off guard will not go down well,

Id take this approach even pre covid

If my new neighbours posted a letter through my letterbox about taking down my wall it would never be coming down.

If my neighbour knocked on the door, introduced themselves, and asked the reason why i had such a high wall id give answers.

hottea2019

Hi all,
Thank you for all of your responses. We have lived in this house for 4 months which is also the lockdown time so no chance to say hello to all neighbours here. We used to live in apartments before so this is the first time we live in a house. We admit that we had very limited experience to check the wall-blocking-sunlight during winter-viewings.
We'll see how the summer sunlight is and of course will try to get to know the neighbour first before mentioning the wall.

yourdeadwright

Dav010 wrote: »

Op: Hi, I’m your new neighbour, I think your wall could kill my kids, can you take it down please.

Neighbour: F**k off you idiot.

Believe it or not this happened to me,
The neighbour garden behind is higher so I had no problem with the height of the wall but whoever they got to do it was an absolute cowboy the wall was an absolute mess of a thing ,


I actually sent them a letter as said and even suggested they could take pictures of the wall and send it a number of websites to get opinions and eventually the agreed with me and we got it rebuilt

You'll also find if the realise the wall is built poorly and unsafe they will do something about it , given the times we live in the last thing you want is for it to fall and some f*cker looking for a pay out ,

derb12

As others have said, you don’t want your first interaction with the neighbours to be about this - either verbally or in writing.
I would like to know how well engineered it is. A long wall, 3m high, should have some sort of buttressing at intervals on their side.
I would think that it should also have substantial foundations that would reach into both sides. You could check out the foundations easy enough - maybe take some pics and post on the DIY/Construction board. You get fantastic advice over there.
Also, check out the planting on both sides as there could be plants that might undermine the foundations.
Other than that .... build a nice outdoor feature against it? Paint a mural?

hottea2019

awec wrote: »

Maybe an obvious question but is your neighbour’s garden the same elevation as yours?

Del2005 wrote: »

Plenty of 3m high walls in estates that aren't built on level ground, there's one below my apartment. A 1m difference it ground level isn't extreme and then a 2m wall on the high side.

Their land is a bit higher than mine (but definitely under 1m higher) so maybe it causes the differences.Thanks for mentioning it

jimmycrackcorm

Calahonda52 wrote: »

<= 2m requires no planning at rear

Did anyone even attempt to read the OP?

hottea2019 wrote: »

The wall is pretty high (approximately 3 metres)

mr c

hottea2019 wrote: »

Their land is a bit higher than mine (but definitely under 1m higher) so maybe it causes the differences.Thanks for mentioning it

Maybe your own garden has been dug out before
We got an extension last year going up the garden and the old garden was cleared out and the back wall is taller as a result so maybe your own garden was changed previously (just a suggestion incase it helps)

Ok OP so a few things here.

1. South facing rear garden? So that’s brilliant - looking out your back window, sun comes from your left in the morning then over your garden all day and departs to your right in the evening, correct?

If so, that means for all summer your garden will be filled with sunshine all day - but not all of your garden all of the day.
In the morning the left side of the garden will be in shade (assuming you’re in a semi detached and there’s a standard 6 foot fence between you and your other neighbour.
But from mid to late morning your entire garden will have sun. Then mid afternoon the right hand side will go into shade and the left hand side will be fully in sun- this will happen with a 6 foot wall no less a 9 foot wall

Eventually all the garden will be in shade towards evening - maybe between 6-7 pm depending on how true south you’re facing

So you’re going to have sun and a lot of sun- just not in the same spot for the entire day
And bamboo will also cast a shadow and that’s likely to be similar in size to the wall - I’d relax a bit for the moment- if you’re thinking of building a deck or something wait till summer- it will likely need to be 1/2 way down your garden to maximise evening sunshine from what you’ve described

Finally the sun will depart your garden starting from the left corner as you look out onto your back garden and will move down the garden on your left hand side- so around 7pm just outside your house on the left hand side will likely be in shade but the sun may still be shining half way down your garden also on the left hand side
A south facing rear garden is a great feature- if your neighbour had a standard ground floor extension out the back it still wouldn’t really impact the level of sunshine you’ll get in your south facing garden - enjoy it - it’s far nicer than a north or east facing garden

ted1

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Hey Op

Id give you some advice here if you want to talk about it with them i'd send a letter and post it in the letter box yourself, Obviously with a return address or email or phone details
,
It will seems less confrontational and take the awkwardness out of the situation

Do not do that. It’s extremely passive aggressive and would really alienate them.

#WorstAdviceEver

JamesM

We're facing south east. We have a neighbours shed all across the back. We have a neighbours shed at part of the west side. In the winter we get very little sun, except close to the house, but we're not out in the back. In the summer, when we want to be out, we have sun for most of the day, and we move around and sit in different corners. It is after 1800 before we lose the sun - and that's because of the houses. The most important thing is that we have wonderful neighbours.

badboyblast

any chance of a picture of the wall? for clarity

kravmaga

hottea2019 wrote: »

May I know where I can find that 2m regulation?

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2001/si/600/made/en/print#sched2

2 metre max allowed at rear of house, see class 5

Oscar Bravo

1850 715 815 "what color was de wall caller"

Darc19

Op should measure it. It may seem high, but possibly is not much more than 2m.

It would be hard not to notice a 3m wall even in winter. You are talking 10 ft. - height of the living room ceiling and two ft more. It would stand out like a sore thumb.

bertsmom

I'm thinking though that its not that high in their garden. Their garden may perhaps be a bit lower down than the ops.
To be honest I'd be very reluctant to have new neighbours lower the wall as I think I must be a bit cynical but I'd just be thinking no in my head incase it starts off a list if requests and also from a security point of view I'd never allow a neighbour lower a garden wall.

coolbeans

kravmaga wrote: »

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2001/si/600/made/en/print#sched2

2 metre max allowed at rear of house, see class 5

...without planning permission.

mrslancaster

Some gardens have hedging that are 8/9 feet high. Our last house had a 2 storey extension built right up to the boundary wall so our patio area was in shade all day. The previous owners were elderly & didn't object to the planning. Then when we sold the EA said the buyers loved the privacy they got with the 2 storey height wall so everyone is different.
new neighbours asking for an existing garden wall to be knocked/lowered would be a bit cheeky imo.
Maybe OP could put up a trellis, plant something that will cover the concrete or build a pergola against the wall. A high wall could be useful rather than a problem.

Piehead

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Hey Op

Id give you some advice here if you want to talk about it with them i'd send a letter and post it in the letter box yourself, Obviously with a return address or email or phone details
,
It will seems less confrontational and take the awkwardness out of the situation

Most importantly it give them time to think about there response ,
People can be awfully protective of there own home and rights , If you catch them off guard and they responded with a "feck off" they may be stubborn and not want to back down and friends and family will tell them "no you where right , there just blow in & so on"

A letter gives them space to breath and think about a reply and not feel backed into a corner,






Just arriving on someone door step to discuss something like that and catching them off guard will not go down well,

Id take this approach even pre covid

What an insane idea ! Yourdeadwrong !

headtheball14

I'm trying to work out are the height limits measured from the base of the structure. Or the surrounding level. My neighbour just built and are claiming exemption. The thing is ttheynever dug out foundations. They just put hardcore and then cement . This is raising the structure up quite a bit before the structure itself was built. It's cast most of my whole garden in shadow from the afternoon on.

awec

headtheball14 wrote: »

I'm trying to work out are the height limits measured from the base of the structure. Or the surrounding level. My neighbour just built and are claiming exemption. The thing is ttheynever dug out foundations. They just put hardcore and then cement . This is raising the structure up quite a bit before the structure itself was built. It's cast most of my whole garden in shadow from the afternoon on.

Your neighbours built a wall with no foundations?

riclad

The amount of sun you get depends on the other 2 walls ,the house,s around you , how close they are , the height of the houses around the garden .the height of the other 2 walls.
i,m surrounded by 10-11 ft walls ,i think i get plenty of sunlight ,
but i might be outside 1 day a week in the summertime .

i think the chances of someone reducing the size of a wall is low, unless you pay the cost , and your neighbour is very easy going.
thev wall could have been built 40 years ago, before the neighbour bought the house.
reducing the wall by 1 metre would probably make very little difference
to the amount of sunlight you get in the garden.wait 2 months and see what your neighbour is like,
you,ll know the amount of sunlight you get during the day.

TheW1zard

Is there a level difference between the two properties?