Minimum pricing for alcohol by Christmas

coconnellz

The Government intends to introduce minimum unit pricing for alcohol by Christmas, Minister of State at the Department of Health Frank Feighan has said, will this year be last drowning the shamrock I wonder?? https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.rte.ie/amp/1204194/

Fr Tod Umptious

coconnellz wrote: »

The Government intends to introduce minimum unit pricing for alcohol by Christmas, Minister of State at the Department of Health Frank Feighan has said, will this year be last drowning the shamrock I wonder??

No it won't.
Because, guess what, they are not actually banning the sale of alcohol.

coconnellz

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

[/b]
No it won't.
Because, guess what, they are not actually banning the sale of alcohol.

It was Tongue and cheek expression, it'll won't do much other than make people poorer who likes a few drinks at the weekend after all this covid buisness

Capt'n Midnight

It will not bring in 1c in extra excise duty. So nothing for health. Zilch.

Any extra VAT will be offset by reduced spending elsewhere or a reduction in savings.

The main beneficiary will be supermarket own brands who will be forced by law to increase prices by well over 100% and pocket the difference. For brands expect distributors to up the wholesale price because they can.

The theory that if you make drinking at home more expensive it will drive people to the pub ? It's as likely to make them visit the pub less because of reduced disposable income. Publicans won't see any extra business.

cian68

coconnellz wrote: »

It was Tongue and cheek expression

It was what?

Kermit.de.frog

I support this. Pricing is the most effective deterrent imo.

Zaph

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I support this. Pricing is the most effective deterrent imo.

No it's not. All that will happen is that people who are determined to drink will do so, and they'll just pay more for the cheap booze they currently consume. In order to do that they will either use up more of their disposable income on alcohol, to their, or in many cases their family's detriment, or they'll resort to crime in some form. Proper education and proper addiction support are what's needed, and upping the price using MUP without a cent of it going to the government to pay for such services is quite ludicrous.

Thelonious Monk

When this goes through, people should boycott pubs in protest, whenever they open again.
But no one will protest anything and this will be the first of many anti booze measures to come.

Wibbs

Ah here Zed, go away with your sense talking. this government move is entirely for the optics of looking to be doing something and those who view the world simply will think this simple measure will make a difference. It won't, but actually making a difference would be too much work for the government and the optics would be the same. Path of least resistance.

KrustyUCC

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

It will not bring in 1c in extra excise duty. So nothing for health. Zilch.

Any extra VAT will be offset by reduced spending elsewhere or a reduction in savings.

The main beneficiary will be supermarket own brands who will be forced by law to increase prices by well over 100% and pocket the difference. For brands expect distributors to up the wholesale price because they can.

The theory that if you make drinking at home more expensive it will drive people to the pub ? It's as likely to make them visit the pub less because of reduced disposable income. Publicans won't see any extra business.

Great points

Funny MUP was always about supporting the pubs not health

5.3 Keeping Communities Vibrant

Supporting Irish Pubs: Fine Gael recognises the importance of the Irish pub for tourism, rural jobs and as
a social outlet in communities across the country. We will support the local pub by banning the practice
of below cost selling on alcohol, particularly by large supermarkets and the impact this has had on alcohol
consumption and the viability of pubs.

https://www.drugsandalcohol.ie/14719/1/Fine_Gael_Manifesto.pdf

We already have amongst the most expensive alcohol in Europe as it is

Even if they do introduce this by Christmas that's ahead of Northern Ireland

People near the border will flock over and do their entire shop in NI

Everybody who even drinks a moderate amount of alcohol will be affected by large increases and brands will increase prices by the same amount the cheaper brands will need to brought up by MUP

Capt'n Midnight

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I support this. Pricing is the most effective deterrent imo.

Would you rather the extra cost go to the government in excise duty ?

Or increased profits for large supermarkets and distributors ?

Local off-licences won't see much extra as I'd expect wholesale prices to magically increase.

Muahahaha

When this comes in I'll be going back to home brewing. Id say there will be a bit of a boom in that sector as people find alternatives to getting royally ripped off for a few beers in the supermarket.

Muahahaha

Muahahaha wrote: »

When this comes in I'll be going back to home brewing. Id say there will be a bit of a boom in that sector as people find alternatives to getting royally ripped off for a few beers in the supermarket.

If I still drank I'd be planning to make wine. Seems the easiest way around it.

spring lane jack

Aren't we lucky to have people making decisions for us. Blessed I tell ye. You can always offset this type of bollock-acting by not paying for TV license or bin collection etc

elperello

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I support this. Pricing is the most effective deterrent imo.

Deterrent to what?

In my case I drink sensibly but I will still have to pay more.

What deterrent do I need?

VinLieger

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I support this. Pricing is the most effective deterrent imo.

Detterrant to what? Weve had nearly 2 decades of declining consumption as you well know.


This is supposedly about curbing the drinking of those in society with alcohol problems ie alcohol addiction, what addicts do you know that care about the price of getting their fix?

Feisar

VinLieger wrote: »

Detterrant to what? Weve had nearly 2 decades of declining consumption as you well know.


This is supposedly about curbing the drinking of those in society with alcohol problems ie alcohol addiction, what addicts do you know that care about the price of getting their fix?

Exactly, at what point did the price of fags actually reduce consumption?

Fr Tod Umptious

VinLieger wrote: »

Detterrant to what? Weve had nearly 2 decades of declining consumption as you well know.


This is supposedly about curbing the drinking of those in society with alcohol problems ie alcohol addiction, what addicts do you know that care about the price of getting their fix?

I think it has more to do with prevention.

Increasing the entry price for alcohol i.e the lowest price in the market, would make it more expensive for young people to dabble, as it were, in alcohol.

That's the economics of it at least.

And it's a long term strategy.
Forget about the addicts, they are already a lost cause, try to prevent the next generation of addicts.

That is what has worked with smoking in combination with advertising curbs etc.

PTH2009

Load of bollocks

VinLieger

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I think it has more to do with prevention.

Increasing the entry price for alcohol i.e the lowest price in the market, would make it more expensive for young people to dabble, as it were, in alcohol.

That's the economics of it at least.

And it's a long term strategy.
Forget about the addicts, they are already a lost cause, try to prevent the next generation of addicts.

That is what has worked with smoking in combination with advertising curbs etc.

The wording from government and AAI on this has always been about stopping problem drinkers.

If price was such a detterrant why not increase excise and properly ring fence the proceeds from excise to help treatment and other ways of stopping or fixing alcohol abuse?

Also why is nobody that pushes this idiocy willing to a knowledge the massive decline in consumption we've seen while they at the same time claim alcohol has gotten cheaper?

The answer to all of the above is this is and always has been about pubs and the likes of AAI et al have jumped on the bandwagon to be seen to score a win.

The J Stands for Jay

cian68 wrote: »

It was what?

Tongue and groove, it's a type of carpentry joint used in the likes of floorboards.

Mr. teddywinkles

VinLieger wrote: »

Detterrant to what? Weve had nearly 2 decades of declining consumption as you well know.


This is supposedly about curbing the drinking of those in society with alcohol problems ie alcohol addiction, what addicts do you know that care about the price of getting their fix?

That's cause the drug culture is the main thing now. Probably fooking cheaper now too. Try telling these egits that thou

gmisk

Newry is going to get a lot busier!

hatrickpatrick

I'm seriously considering opening a homebrew workshop. If students and broke young'uns had any idea how cheap it was to make your own top-shelf quality beer, the off-trade would go bankrupt in the morning

Atlantic Dawn

gmisk wrote: »

Newry is going to get a lot busier!

I was worried over Brexit that NIRL would be considered outside the EU, current setup is perfect. If sterling devalues to help UK trade drink prices there could get crazy cheap with or without minimum pricing.

KrustyUCC

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

That's cause the drug culture is the main thing now. Probably fooking cheaper now too. Try telling these egits that thou

Ministers lately have been claiming MUP has worked in Scotland


They never mention the increase in drug taking which has replaced alcohol for many as you said it's cheaper

razorblunt

I live in Scotland, they have this in place for a while now.

You can still buy 12 packs of beer for £8. Just another excuse to maintain rip off Ireland.

elperello

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Ministers lately have been claiming MUP has worked in Scotland


They never mention the increase in drug taking which has replaced alcohol for many as you said it's cheaper

Or the increase in cross border sales in towns like Carlisle and Berwick on Tweed.

https://inews.co.uk/news/long-reads/uk-towns-carlisle-booze-cruise-scotland-border-alcohol-tax-321504

SEPT 23 1989

I think a swipe card with your maximum weekly alcohol unit allowance is the way forward if we are ever to tackle this drinking scourge

Fr Tod Umptious

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

I think a swipe card with your maximum weekly alcohol unit allowance is the way forward if we are ever to tackle this drinking scourge

No way.

If I want to spend all my money on booze regardless of how expensive it is let me, but don't force some arbitrary quota on me.

That would be peak nanny state.

L1011

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

I think a swipe card with your maximum weekly alcohol unit allowance is the way forward if we are ever to tackle this drinking scourge

And every non-drinker in the country will rent their card out, and Newry/Strabane/Omagh/Enniskillen will suddenly have an off-licence every second shop.

Also the unit "calculation" is basically baseless and was picked as a number that sounded acceptable. Every country in the world has their own weekly amounts. The UK has a different calculation of a unit too.

Thelonious Monk

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I'm seriously considering opening a homebrew workshop. If students and broke young'uns had any idea how cheap it was to make your own top-shelf quality beer, the off-trade would go bankrupt in the morning

I do it myself, I have a pilsner and an IPA in the shed that are really good. The key for me is to leave them long enough for them to mature and get rid of that homebrewey taste. It's not practical though, if I wanted year round available booze I'd probably need to invest in some industrial level apparatus for brewing.

Geuze

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I think it has more to do with prevention.

Increasing the entry price for alcohol i.e the lowest price in the market, would make it more expensive for young people to dabble, as it were, in alcohol.

That's the economics of it at least.

And it's a long term strategy.
Forget about the addicts, they are already a lost cause, try to prevent the next generation of addicts.

That is what has worked with smoking in combination with advertising curbs etc.

If this is correct, then Germany, with 50cl cans starting at 29 cent, bottles of spirits starting at 4.99, and 50cl of beer in some pubs from 2.20, should be a broken society, beset with addiction, alcoholism, social problems.

Of course, it's not.

Price is not the problem, and price is not the solution.

Geuze

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

I think a swipe card with your maximum weekly alcohol unit allowance is the way forward if we are ever to tackle this drinking scourge

Instead of ever more rules, regulations, why not try the opposite?

Remove the significance of alcohol.

Make it more like wine in Spain, beer in Germany.

Let's not copy the Nordic attitudes.

Thelonious Monk

Geuze wrote: »

Instead of ever more rules, regulations, why not try the opposite?

Remove the significance of alcohol.

Make it more like wine in Spain, beer in Germany.

Let's not copy the Nordic attitudes.

Doesn't matter what we think though, every member of the Oireachtas is favour of these new rules. This is only the beginning too, there'll be no end to their nannying.

Galwayguy35

I thought they were having problems passing it as it was going against some EU law.

Its a load of bollix anyway, my uncle was a chronic alcoholic and it didn't matter if a bottle of whiskey cost €1 or €100 he was going to buy it.

This is just going to hit those of us who like a social drink to unwind and relax.

VinLieger

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I thought they were having problems passing it as it was going against some EU law.

Its a load of bollix anyway, my uncle was a chronic alcoholic and it didn't matter if a bottle of whiskey cost €1 or €100 he was going to buy it.

This is just going to hit those of us who like a social drink to unwind and relax.

They were but the Scottish whiskey distillers lost their case at EU level so it's been given the go ahead unfortunately

L1011

VinLieger wrote: »

They were but the Scottish whiskey distillers lost their case at EU level so it's been given the go ahead unfortunately

They didn't lose, the Scottish Govt had to prove that it would work and were allowed a trial.

It hasn't worked - it has just transferred harm to drugs with far worse outcomes (and there are plenty of secondary problems of alcos having even less money to spend on their kids, robbing, etc etc) - but they left the EU before it could be proven it hasn't.


We have already tried, and lost the case, on minimum price on smokes.

Price is not a problem. Attitudes are a problem, and being treated like bold children with alcohol being a temptation is a problem. Get rid of 2:30 closing and the 2:29 pint stack goes away. Allow lower alcohol drinks / drinks with parents at 16-18 and the field-drinking mostly goes away. This is all extremely simple stuff done in other countries; but we're going for MUP because MUP benefits publicans (it makes the price of a pint much closer to the price of drinking at home, so people go out) and FF/FG are riddled with them.

Capt'n Midnight

L1011 wrote: »

Allow lower alcohol drinks

Not only are lower alcohol drinks allowed they attract a much lower excise duty which makes them cheaper.

Publicans killed them at birth by price gouging by charging about the same price as full alcohol drinks. In the same way they charge an absolute bloody fortune for soft drinks.

hatrickpatrick

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I do it myself, I have a pilsner and an IPA in the shed that are really good. The key for me is to leave them long enough for them to mature and get rid of that homebrewey taste. It's not practical though, if I wanted year round available booze I'd probably need to invest in some industrial level apparatus for brewing.

Hehe letting them ripen enough to not taste green is indeed the biggest homebrewer's dilemma

I could offer one piece of advice regarding supply - you can boost your supply substantially by breaking one of the cardinal rules of homebrewing and doubling the sugar addition to an ordinary kit, thus almost doubling the ABV to around 8% or so. Now, most homebrewers will tell you that this will result in a horribly dry beer, and they would be right, if you don't make any dry additions. However, if a couple of days before bottling you were to turn it into a ginger beer (buy around 250g of ginger in the supermarket, peel it, chop it up and just dump it into your fermenter) or a dry hopped IPA (get a 100g bag of Citra hops and again just dump half of them in, keep the other half in a sealed ziplock bag in the fridge for the next batch) you can mitigate this effect substantially - and voila, delicious, double strength home brew for more or less the same price

On top of this, dry hopping with that much of a hop addition (or indeed that large a ginger addition) really speeds up the time it takes in the fridge for your beer to taste incredible, the "green" taste of an unconditioned beer subsides very very quickly into the background when your beer has been "tampered" with in this manner prior to bottling.

Just one guy's opinion, of course! But if you do it this way, you can churn out two new 40-pint batches every month once you're into the rhythm of it Using this method, it's precisely one month from brewing day to drinkability (two weeks in primary, two weeks at room temperature for carbonation and just two days in the fridge before it becomes acceptably ripe, with this increasing exponentially for every extra day you leave it in the fridge)

Depending on how much you like to drink on average, this will at the very least substantially cut down on your trips to the offie

Dyr

coconnellz wrote: »

The Government intends to introduce minimum unit pricing for alcohol by Christmas, Minister of State at the Department of Health Frank Feighan has said, will this year be last drowning the shamrock I wonder?? https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.rte.ie/amp/1204194/

Hopefully it lead to less nastiness on our streets like the bould Frankie Feighan repeatedly elbowing a pensioner

singmeasongy

i can see why its being brought in you see lads buying slabs of does 30/40 c beers. its not about making profift for pubs our health system has to pay for all these drink related conditions which is costing millions.

and yes it will result in less consumption how can it not.

minimum pricing is a good think. people moaning here can afford to pay extra if it results in premium brans going up 40/50c or just drink less.......oh wait :rolleyes:

L1011

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Not only are lower alcohol drinks allowed they attract a much lower excise duty which makes them cheaper.

I meant allow lower alcohol drinks at 14/16 as some countries do.

The state needs to stop alcohol consumption being seen as 'naughty' and tempting - yet everything they're doing is the opposite. Hiding alcohol in shops just makes it more of a intriguing temptation, not less.

Thelonious Monk

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Hehe letting them ripen enough to not taste green is indeed the biggest homebrewer's dilemma

I could offer one piece of advice regarding supply - you can boost your supply substantially by breaking one of the cardinal rules of homebrewing and doubling the sugar addition to an ordinary kit, thus almost doubling the ABV to around 8% or so. Now, most homebrewers will tell you that this will result in a horribly dry beer, and they would be right, if you don't make any dry additions. However, if a couple of days before bottling you were to turn it into a ginger beer (buy around 250g of ginger in the supermarket, peel it, chop it up and just dump it into your fermenter) or a dry hopped IPA (get a 100g bag of Citra hops and again just dump half of them in, keep the other half in a sealed ziplock bag in the fridge for the next batch) you can mitigate this effect substantially - and voila, delicious, double strength home brew for more or less the same price

On top of this, dry hopping with that much of a hop addition (or indeed that large a ginger addition) really speeds up the time it takes in the fridge for your beer to taste incredible, the "green" taste of an unconditioned beer subsides very very quickly into the background when your beer has been "tampered" with in this manner prior to bottling.

Just one guy's opinion, of course! But if you do it this way, you can churn out two new 40-pint batches every month once you're into the rhythm of it Using this method, it's precisely one month from brewing day to drinkability (two weeks in primary, two weeks at room temperature for carbonation and just two days in the fridge before it becomes acceptably ripe, with this increasing exponentially for every extra day you leave it in the fridge)

Depending on how much you like to drink on average, this will at the very least substantially cut down on your trips to the offie

Some good advice, I think I'm going to put another brew on in the next couple of weeks.
I do already make alcoholic ginger ale though, I've a few bottles left, it comes in at around 7.2%, and all you need is citrus fruits and ginger and sugar. It's delicious. I work around this recipe and make 25 litres at a time

https://homebrewsupply.com/learn/make-alcoholic-ginger-ale.html

But yes the extra hops would hide the homebrewy taste I think is what you're saying, I find with the hoppy IPAs I've made it can be disguised alright, the 3 times I've made pilsner, my current batch is the nicest, as it was so horrible at the start that I didn't go near it again until recently, now it's smooth and a lovely clear colour.

Trump Derangement Syndrome

Living in rural Ireland there hasn't been a drinking problem since the celtic tiger days of pubs wedged Friday Saturday and Sunday night.

Since 2008 there has been pub closures every year and I don't know what will be left by the time this pandemic is over.

So trying to make out that alcohol consumption and the drinking culture is rising year on year out in rural Ireland is ridiculous and an outright lie.

VinLieger

singmeasongy wrote: »

i can see why its being brought in you see lads buying slabs of does 30/40 c beers. its not about making profift for pubs our health system has to pay for all these drink related conditions which is costing millions.

and yes it will result in less consumption how can it not.

minimum pricing is a good think. people moaning here can afford to pay extra if it results in premium brans going up 40/50c or just drink less.......oh wait :rolleyes:

But we already have less consumption, in fact every year since 2005 we've had less consumption so what's the problem?

ThunbergsAreGo

A pathetic law by our pathetic nanny state politicians

ThunbergsAreGo

VinLieger wrote: »

But we already have less consumption, in fact every year since 2005 we've had less consumption so what's the problem?

Thats the thing our attitude towards alcohol is changing anyways, this is totally unnecessary.

VinLieger

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Thats the thing our attitude towards alcohol is changing anyways, this is totally unnecessary.

Not if your a publican, they are loosing out badly because our attitudes are changing, I would wager the majority of the consumption drops are happening in the pub trade.

elperello

singmeasongy wrote: »

i can see why its being brought in you see lads buying slabs of does 30/40 c beers. its not about making profift for pubs our health system has to pay for all these drink related conditions which is costing millions.

and yes it will result in less consumption how can it not.

minimum pricing is a good think. people moaning here can afford to pay extra if it results in premium brans going up 40/50c or just drink less.......oh wait :rolleyes:

Where are you getting 30/40c beers?

Garibaldi?

My cousin makes wine using kits from Homebrew West. The end is product lovely. You'd need to enjoy it as a hobby though.