Current pub laws

Bikerman2019

1. Are "take away pints" legal.
2. Is walking down / standing on the public street drinking one legal?


Reading lots about this on the news and was wondering.

Dublin Lad2021

Bikerman2019 wrote: »

1. Are "take away pints" legal.
2. Is walking down / standing on the public street drinking one legal?


Reading lots about this on the news and was wondering.

1. Apparently so but don't quote me
2. No consuming alcohol in public is illegal

Bikerman2019

Bikerman2019 wrote: »

1. Are "take away pints" legal.
2. Is walking down / standing on the public street drinking one legal?


Reading lots about this on the news and was wondering.

Current information:

1. Yes if paid for on site and removed for home consumption

2. Nope. It's for drinking at home

endacl

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Current information:

1. Yes if paid for on site and removed for home consumption

2. Nope. It's for drinking at home

If only drinks were available somewhere in sealed containers. Would be easier to carry them home without spilling. You could even keep a few in the fridge for later. They wouldn't even go flat!

Bikerman2019

I saw a pub the other night selling take away pints with a plastic lid.

Wasn't sure if it was legal, but hey, I would be afraid the pubs and any business may not be able to reopen when this is over.

Pauliedragon

Bikerman2019 wrote: »

1. Are "take away pints" legal.
2. Is walking down / standing on the public street drinking one legal?


Reading lots about this on the news and was wondering.

Takeaway pints come under the same laws as off licences so to make them illegal would mean the offies would also have to be shut. The pints can't be consumed within 100 metres of the pub.
With street drinking it's up to each individual council to do there own by laws regarding public drinking which pretty much every council in the country has made illegal.

endacl

endacl wrote: »

If only drinks were available somewhere in sealed containers. Would be easier to carry them home without spilling. You could even keep a few in the fridge for later. They wouldn't even go flat!

Be living the dream then baby

bassy

who would bother there hole getting takeaway pints at pub prices and having to bring them home.
go to the offy or supermarket...............................................

Dublin Lad2021

Dublin Lad2021 wrote: »

1. Apparently so but don't quote me
2. No consuming alcohol in public is illegal

Doesn’t no. 2 depend on the local bye laws? The actual national law is that the take away drink must be consumed a certain distance (100m?) away from the premises I believe

GM228

Pauliedragon wrote: »

Takeaway pints come under the same laws as off licences so to make them illegal would mean the offies would also have to be shut. The pints can't be consumed within 100 metres of the pub.
With street drinking it's up to each individual council to do there own by laws regarding public drinking which pretty much every council in the country has made illegal.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Doesn’t no. 2 depend on the local bye laws? The actual national law is that the take away drink must be consumed a certain distance (100m?) away from the premises I believe

Yes no.2 is governed by local bye-laws under the Local Government Act 2001, most if not all LAs have banned such as noted above.

With regards the 100M rule, it only applies to alcohol served in a "closed container", it would not apply to take-away drinks in a cup or other non closed container, in which case you revert back to the local bye-laws which allow for consumption outside a premises if there are chairs or other provisions for drinking outside.

Eggs For Dinner

Went for chips the other night ad while waiting for my order, I went in to the off-licence next door. Got myself a pint iof Guinness n a plastic tumbler and drank it outside waiting for my chips. No Gardai about and no harm done

*Absolutely gorgeous pint

xl500

Dublin Lad2021 wrote: »

1. Apparently so but don't quote me
2. No consuming alcohol in public is illegal

Drinking in public is not illegal

GM228

xl500 wrote: »

Drinking in public is not illegal

Consumption of alcohol is illegal in most (if not all) public places (unless in a designated area outside the premises).

xl500

GM228 wrote: »

Consumption of alcohol is illegal in most (if not all) public places (unless in a designated area outside the premises).

No it's not it's only governed by council bye laws

GM228

xl500 wrote: »

No it's not it's only governed by council bye laws

And you think bye-laws don't have the same effect as any other law?

If you do you are wrong. It is a criminal offence to contravene the bye-laws.

There is often the misconception that bye-laws don't have the same effect as any other form of secondary law.

xl500

GM228 wrote: »

And you think bye-laws don't have the same effect as any other law?

If you do you are wrong. It is a criminal offence to contravene the bye-laws.

There is often the misconception that bye-laws don't have the same effect as any other form of secondary law.

I think your original statement should have stated drinking in public is illegal in some local authority areas but it is certainly not illegal in public everywhere which is what your original statement implied

Guerillabear

Always heard this growing up but never tested it - are you grand drinking a can in public of it’s concealed in say a brown paper bag? Like even if the Gardaí notice, can they do anything if it’s concealed?

Peregrinus

Guerillabear wrote: »

Always heard this growing up but never tested it - are you grand drinking a can in public of it’s concealed in say a brown paper bag? Like even if the Gardaí notice, can they do anything if it’s concealed?

Depends on the bye-laws. But, given typical bye-laws, wrapping a brown paper bag around the bottle will be no help at all. The belief that it does is driven by watching too much US television, like the belief that judges use gavels or that there's a crime of statutory rape.

listermint

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

Went for chips the other night ad while waiting for my order, I went in to the off-licence next door. Got myself a pint iof Guinness n a plastic tumbler and drank it outside waiting for my chips. No Gardai about and no harm done

*Absolutely gorgeous pint

Your crime there is Guinness in a plastic glass.

You should have been arrested.

Homer

Guerillabear wrote: »

Always heard this growing up but never tested it - are you grand drinking a can in public of it’s concealed in say a brown paper bag? Like even if the Gardaí notice, can they do anything if it’s concealed?

Depends if the guard has his hat on or not :P

L1011

GM228 wrote: »

Consumption of alcohol is illegal in most (if not all) public places (unless in a designated area outside the premises).

Local to me there were no restrictions until by-laws were passed in recent months, which forgot to specify the main location people with takeaway pints drink them in.

They did cover the main teenage drinking den though

GM228

xl500 wrote: »

I think your original statement should have stated drinking in public is illegal in some local authority areas but it is certainly not illegal in public everywhere which is what your original statement implied

I said most public places, not everywhere - because most LAs have banned it.

GM228 wrote: »

Yes no.2 is governed by local bye-laws under the Local Government Act 2001, most if not all LAs have banned such as noted above

Eggs For Dinner

listermint wrote: »

Your crime there is Guinness in a plastic glass.

You should have been arrested.

Desperate times call for desperate measures. I would normally be in full support but my last draught pint had been in November. I stopped short of letting him put a lid on it. A step too far methinks, even in lockdown

Bikerman2019

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

Went for chips the other night ad while waiting for my order, I went in to the off-licence next door. Got myself a pint iof Guinness n a plastic tumbler and drank it outside waiting for my chips. No Gardai about and no harm done

*Absolutely gorgeous pint

Funny you should say that scenario....

Guerillabear

Homer wrote: »

Depends if the guard has his hat on or not :P

Lol, I remember that nugget.

Dublinensis

The Dublin City Council bye-laws only apply to public places which are "within the control or management" of the Council (this reflects language in the Local Government Act delimiting the powers of councils to make bye-laws, so I'd guess other councils' bye-laws might be similar). The argument has been made that this means the bye-laws don't apply to public parks which are not run by the council such as Phoenix Park or St Stephen's Green (both under OPW management) and that public drinking in those parks is accordingly not an offence (though a park warden might still move you on or require you to put your drink away).

I'm not entirely sure whether the argument holds up but it does seem to have a degree of plausibility. It also might explain why in normal times the guards never interfere with the hordes of summertime drinkers on the TCD cricket pitch.

Though another interesting point is that the DCC bye-laws are drafted in such a way as to criminalise drinking outside a pub while standing up, so they're arguably not really made to be strictly enforced anyway.

Peregrinus

Dublinensis wrote: »

The Dublin City Council bye-laws only apply to public places which are "within the control or management" of the Council (this reflects language in the Local Government Act delimiting the powers of councils to make bye-laws, so I'd guess other councils' bye-laws might be similar). The argument has been made that this means the bye-laws don't apply to public parks which are not run by the council such as Phoenix Park or St Stephen's Green (both under OPW management) . . .

Phoenix Park and Stephen's Green both have their own bye-laws, made by the Board of Works. Pretty sure both ban drinking alcohol — if I recall them rightly, they basically ban any kind of fun at all — but I can't put my hands on them right now.

Robbo

Peregrinus wrote: »

Phoenix Park and Stephen's Green both have their own bye-laws, made by the Board of Works. Pretty sure both ban drinking alcohol — if I recall them rightly, they basically ban any kind of fun at all — but I can't put my hands on them right now.

I'm sure GM228 will know the answer to this but I think the park rangers in each place have a surprising list of powers, some of which may be suspect.

I know that when I researched public drinking byelaws before, I found that Galway City Council had given lifeguards (and basically any Council employee) powers of stop, search and seizure in a way that wouldn't stand up to any kind of scrutiny.

Victor

Peregrinus wrote: »

Phoenix Park and Stephen's Green both have their own bye-laws, made by the Board of Works. Pretty sure both ban drinking alcohol — if I recall them rightly, they basically ban any kind of fun at all — but I can't put my hands on them right now.

Phoenix Park Bye-laws http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1926/sro/6/made/en/print

Saint Stephen's Green http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1962/si/175/made/en/print

One of the lads got told off by a park constable in Saint Stephen's Green for having his girlfriend on his lap simpliciter.

Marcusm

Peregrinus wrote: »

Phoenix Park and Stephen's Green both have their own bye-laws, made by the Board of Works. Pretty sure both ban drinking alcohol — if I recall them rightly, they basically ban any kind of fun at all — but I can't put my hands on them right now.

An Taoiseach, as he then was, was quite clear last Summer when he was photographed drinking cans of beer in the PP that it was not at all unlawful. I imagine that more would have been made of the incident if it could have been.

GM228

Dublinensis wrote: »

The Dublin City Council bye-laws only apply to public places which are "within the control or management" of the Council (this reflects language in the Local Government Act delimiting the powers of councils to make bye-laws, so I'd guess other councils' bye-laws might be similar). The argument has been made that this means the bye-laws don't apply to public parks which are not run by the council such as Phoenix Park or St Stephen's Green (both under OPW management) and that public drinking in those parks is accordingly not an offence (though a park warden might still move you on or require you to put your drink away).

I'm not entirely sure whether the argument holds up but it does seem to have a degree of plausibility. It also might explain why in normal times the guards never interfere with the hordes of summertime drinkers on the TCD cricket pitch.

Though another interesting point is that the DCC bye-laws are drafted in such a way as to criminalise drinking outside a pub while standing up, so they're arguably not really made to be strictly enforced anyway.

The argument does indeed hold up because LA bye-laws have no application within the parks.

GM228

Peregrinus wrote: »

Phoenix Park and Stephen's Green both have their own bye-laws, made by the Board of Works. Pretty sure both ban drinking alcohol — if I recall them rightly, they basically ban any kind of fun at all — but I can't put my hands on them right now.

Neither ban alcohol.

GM228

Robbo wrote: »

I'm sure GM228 will know the answer to this but I think the park rangers in each place have a surprising list of powers, some of which may be suspect.

I know that when I researched public drinking byelaws before, I found that Galway City Council had given lifeguards (and basically any Council employee) powers of stop, search and seizure in a way that wouldn't stand up to any kind of scrutiny.

Park Ranges at Phoenix Park (and Killarney National Park) have powers of arrest for breach of bye laws, interesting to note the powers for both are pre 1937 Acts, so no presumption of constitutionality and a potential Article 50 challenge (there has never been any such challenge made).

The Galway bye laws are interesting, whilst the 2001 Act allows a LA to "include such provisions as the local authority considers appropriate for its effective application" and essentially giving them a blank cheque in terms of any most* ultra vires issues which could arise, there is also a question of compatability with constitutional rights and the justification for giving a power of stop and search to non-Gardaí.

*Actually there is a question of ultra vires in terms of stop and search, that's a matter for the Oireachtas to decide and would need to be provided for in the enabling Act, not any bye-law.

xl500

GM228 wrote: »

I said most public places, not everywhere - because most LAs have banned it.

Exactly it's Illegal in some public places

poisonated

Can you be convicted for drinking in public or is it a fine?

Victor

poisonated wrote: »

Can you be convicted for drinking in public or is it a fine?

Most places likely have a fixed charge notice (on the spot fine), but non-payment will mean court, which could mean conviction, fine and imprisonment in extreme cases.

Peregrinus

poisonated wrote: »

Can you be convicted for drinking in public or is it a fine?

In general, breach of local authority bye-laws is an offence. The penalty on summary conviction is a fine not exceeding £1,500 (€1,904), or any lesser amount that may be set by the bye-laws: Local Government Act 2001 s. 205.

The bye-laws themselves may provide the alternative of a fixed payment notice which you can pay to avoid prosecution: Local Government Act 2001 s. 206.
The fixed payment cannot be more than the maximum fine that could be imposed on prosecution and conviction (and will usually be less).

The Dublin City Council (Prohibition of Consumption of Intoxicating Liquor on Roads and in Public Places) Bye-Laws 2008 do provide the alternative of a fixed payment notice for an offence under the bye-laws; the fixed payment is €75. The maximum fine on conviction and sentences is set at €1,900. Other local authority bye-laws may differ.