Start a van conversion

eu671907

Hello and a nice weekend to everyone.
I am looking to buy a Fiat/Citroen/Peugeot L3H2 for conversion. (for transversal bed at the rear)I got lost into regulations and taxes and VRT and Declaration forms and...OMG. I did a sprinter conversion in 2008, but was easy compare with what is now.
I don't know where to start.
1) any difference if I buy the van with Irish reg or English reg? Tax/impot/vat/vrt??? Do I have to pay more if is a english reg?
2) I need to register and insure/tax to be able to drive it. Do I have to mention I want to covert? Should I wait to convert and register/tax/insure after?
3) windows location? (minimum preferably)
4) acces from cabine to rear?
5) all the rest you can think of...

So, I know nothing and I am lost. Remember, I need to know if I should buy Irish or English reg van, what is the first step about registering, tax and insurance.
Step by step information/advise is welcome.
Thank you.

colm_mcm

1) in terms of VRT, you would usually import the van and pay €200 as a panel van. Once you present it to revenue as a motor home, they charge VRT based on their estimated market value. The €200 you already paid is deducted from this total. This applies to vans registered new in Ireland too.

2) This is a bit of a divisive topic. Until it’s registered as a motor home, it’s classified as a commercial, and you’ll need to insure it as that. This can be a problem in itself for a private individual. It gets even more problematic when you introduce windows, gas etc into the equation.
Taxing as a commercial can be tricky too, you have the option to tax privately at the cc rates. This doesn’t mean you can get car insurance on a van though, it’s still commercial.

3) Technically you don’t need any windows to satisfy Revenues idea of a motorhome. Most people fit windows on the rear doors and sliding door, but it’s entirely up to yourself how you want to do it, and how much light you want in the van.

4) Not a requirement for Revenue, but is a requirement for some insurance companies. Personally I think you gain a tonne of usable space and light when you remove the bulkhead and fit swivel seats.

5) it’s not worth your while importing a Ducato/Relay/Boxer at the moment as the prices have gone mental in the uk. There is limited supply here but you’ll occasionally come across good value. Terry Lilly Commercials had a nice blue one up yesterday that was priced well. My preference would be for Ducato over Relay or Boxer, but as said everything is in short supply.
Note that the usual route of buying parts from the uk is now a lot more expensive, there are also difficulties in getting stuff like lightweight ply at the moment, so keep that in mind.

eu671907

colm_mcm wrote: »

1) in terms of VRT, you would usually import the van and pay €200 as a panel van. Once you present it to revenue as a motor home, they charge VRT based on their estimated market value. The €200 you already paid is deducted from this total. This applies to vans registered new in Ireland too.

2) This is a bit of a divisive topic. Until it’s registered as a motor home, it’s classified as a commercial, and you’ll need to insure it as that. This can be a problem in itself for a private individual. It gets even more problematic when you introduce windows, gas etc into the equation.
Taxing as a commercial can be tricky too, you have the option to tax privately at the cc rates. This doesn’t mean you can get car insurance on a van though, it’s still commercial.

3) Technically you don’t need any windows to satisfy Revenues idea of a motorhome. Most people fit windows on the rear doors and sliding door, but it’s entirely up to yourself how you want to do it, and how much light you want in the van.

4) Not a requirement for Revenue, but is a requirement for some insurance companies. Personally I think you gain a tonne of usable space and light when you remove the bulkhead and fit swivel seats.

5) it’s not worth your while importing a Ducato/Relay/Boxer at the moment as the prices have gone mental in the uk. There is limited supply here but you’ll occasionally come across good value. Terry Lilly Commercials had a nice blue one up yesterday that was priced well. My preference would be for Ducato over Relay or Boxer, but as said everything is in short supply.
Note that the usual route of buying parts from the uk is now a lot more expensive, there are also difficulties in getting stuff like lightweight ply at the moment, so keep that in mind.

Thank you colm_mcm
3) Dolmen insurance asked me 12-13 years ago for minimum of 2 windows, because of new regulation etc. I replied: when I asked you two months ago by email what do I need to be accepted you said nothing about windows. What size the windows should be? They didn't know the size..at the end the manager said: you did a good job and we let you go this time Thank you again. I want a Ducato as well. I'll have a look at the van on Terry Commercials now.

colm_mcm

Some of the insurers have their own stipulations, some might want a 2 burner gas hob, a walkway through from the front seats, certain amount of windows etc.

My take on VRT is buy a camper, kept the tax disc, delete the rest.

colm_mcm

The price of even the worst van conversions has gone crazy.

Buford T Justice

colm_mcm wrote: »

The price of even the worst van conversions has gone crazy.

I know. Some of the excuses for conversions on donedeal are going for a ridiculous amount of money. 15K for a mattress and a camping hob in the back.

Mental

phelixoflaherty

But it could be a USB powered Bonanzaville back there.

markmoto

eu671907 wrote: »

Hello and a nice weekend to everyone.
I am looking to buy a Fiat/Citroen/Peugeot

Personally I wouldn't be looking for Fiat/Citroen/Peugeot especially second hand. Their life span very short due to weak driveline.


I rather choose Mercedes/Ford/Crafter
But it just my opinion.
Thanks

Weak driveline. :pac:

They're missing the most important part; RWD!

Oh how I laugh at Italian white goods stuck in the mud one meter off the steel track of every festival.

markmoto

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Weak driveline. :pac:

They're missing the most important part; RWD!

Oh how I laugh at Italian white goods stuck in the mud one meter off the steel track of every festival.

Driveline = engine/gearbox and everything in between regardless of RWD or FWD

That's what I thought but then I googled it.



Either way the engine is in sideways.

markmoto

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

That's what I thought but then I googled it.



Either way the engine is in sideways.

You are very good congratulation you made your point.


When I purchased vehicle under warranty document it was written driveline 5 years warranty and below explanation; engine, gearbox, etc
Hence I said drive line. Thanks for reading.

I agree. To me the driveline is the internal gubbins, driveshafts etc i woulda called power train or drivetrain.
I only looked it up for the gag, I know what you mean.

A lottov lads say they're very reliable all the same.

I've almost a quarter of a million miles on a T1 Merc engine (601). I don't like the roundy Sprinters...usually something expensive wrong with them.

Padre_Pio

How strict is the ask for receipts for all the material that goes into the conversion?

Buford T Justice

Padre_Pio wrote: »

How strict is the ask for receipts for all the material that goes into the conversion?

Who wants receipts?

Padre_Pio

Buford T Justice wrote: »

Who wants receipts?

Revenue conversion form (VRTCONV) asks for a conversion cost

"a list of invoices/receipts showing dates and amounts must be attached"

Buford T Justice

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Revenue conversion form (VRTCONV) asks for a conversion cost

"a list of invoices/receipts showing dates and amounts must be attached"

I wouldn't be too worried about it if it's a self conversion - You can't be expected to have a receipt for every screw and bit of timber you used. What if you had stuff from an old van that you re-used?

edit - I've submitted a query to revenue for this

markmoto

What is main reason behind receipt requests?
Would that benefit me in cost reduction ?

Buford T Justice

markmoto wrote: »

What is main reason behind receipt requests?
Would that benefit me in cost reduction ?

I believe it's more to do with an individual getting a shop to do the conversion more than anything else. Helps with calculating the OMSP

markmoto

Buford T Justice wrote: »

I believe it's more to do with an individual getting a shop to do the conversion more than anything else. Helps with calculating the OMSP

Would that mean the more I spend on conversion more I have to pay to revenue as the price of campervan increase?

Buford T Justice

markmoto wrote: »

Would that mean the more I spend on conversion more I have to pay to revenue as the price of campervan increase?

Potentially yes, but realistically no self builder will be able to provide all receipts.

eu671907

markmoto wrote: »

Personally I wouldn't be looking for Fiat/Citroen/Peugeot especially second hand. Their life span very short due to weak driveline.


I rather choose Mercedes/Ford/Crafter
But it just my opinion.
Thanks

No, no Sprinter. I had one. Rusty. Rust appears after 4-5 years... Italians are all galvanised.

markmoto

eu671907 wrote: »

No, no Sprinter. I had one. Rusty. Rust appears after 4-5 years... Italians are all galvanised.

Good point, but I rather look at the engine, gearbox and over all reliability.
As we the rust I can do rustproof my self on driveway.

Sprinters rust faster than Crafters & LTs I've noticed.

Buford T Justice

Buford T Justice wrote: »

I know. Some of the excuses for conversions on donedeal are going for a ridiculous amount of money. 15K for a mattress and a camping hob in the back.

For sale:






The complete conversion kit. Get your log book changed tomorrow!
No need to plumb or connect.
Just screw the hobs to the plylining, lash the matress in and down to the VRT centre with ya.


€5k!

Padre_Pio

Got some conflicting information about requirements for insurance companies and certification for conversions. maybe someone here can clear things up.

1. Does anyone care about your wiring gauge and rating? Does wiring need to be fireproof?

2. Is there any requirement around placing your gas can and providing a means of ventilation?

3. Do you need to remove the bulkhead? Do you need to remove the coach seat?

Buford T Justice

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Got some conflicting information about requirements for insurance companies and certification for conversions. maybe someone here can clear things up.

1. Does anyone care about your wiring gauge and rating? Does wiring need to be fireproof?

2. Is there any requirement around placing your gas can and providing a means of ventilation?

3. Do you need to remove the bulkhead? Do you need to remove the coach seat?

It depends on insurance companies. Some won't insure conversions, some will. Some require bulkhead to be removed, some don't.

Gas must be in a sealed box with a drop vent fitted. Wiring - should be covered by the SQI inspection

Padre_Pio

Buford T Justice wrote: »

It depends on insurance companies. Some won't insure conversions, some will. Some require bulkhead to be removed, some don't.

Gas must be in a sealed box with a drop vent fitted. Wiring - should be covered by the SQI inspection

That's my issue.

Everything is "it depends".
Some don't like the bulkhead.
Some don't like the coach seat.
Some don't like the swivel seat.

I called an SQI and he won't check the gas or elec. He just needs to see the bed, storage, seats and cooker meet revenue's requirements and he's good.

Insurance companies might need a RECI elec or an RGI to sign off though.

Sir Liamalot

Welcome to Ireland. Tick the boxes on the merry go round.

I never met a RECI knew his arse from his elbow in off-grid liveaboard electrics nor an RGI with any experience in high vibration mobile equipment.

If you ask too many questions you'll be paying an expert to rectify the work of a professional.

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

My take on VRT is buy a camper, kept the tax disc, delete the rest.

The sink in my camper wasn't connected to anything.

If the insurance want gas hobs fit them but don't connect any gas. Then the RGI will sign off on a safe installation.
Same goes for wiring. Put a USB port on the battery and "call it done" a REC will say it's safe because it's not mains.