Where did America go wrong?

nicholasIII

I just heard that a close friend of mine who lives in New York will be evicted and soon to be homeless. They don't have any close friends at the moment so they are staying in their car thankfully.

How can the "World's Greatest Country" have such a large homeless epidemic? And even have the largest number of its citizens incarcerated? When my dad was growing up in Egypt in the 70s, when you mentioned a "good, wealthy" country, America was the first thing that came to everyone's minds. He heard nothing but good things.

Today, nearly everyone has a negative opinion. Probably got worse since 9/11. And of course 2016-2020 was probably the four worst years America has ever had politically speaking.

Would anyone still move there? Assuming they don't come from a developing country?

I see sheep

It starting going wrong with the Mayflower

Batattackrat

If your poor and on welfare in Ireland you get by quite comfortably.

If your poor and on welfare in the States it's a whole different ball game.

blackvalley

I see sheep wrote: »

It starting going wrong with the Mayflower

AND Slaughtering the indigenous population wasnt a great start . :eek:

nicholasIII

Batattackrat wrote: »

If your poor and on welfare in Ireland you get by quite comfortably.

If your poor and on welfare in the States it's a whole different ball game.

America's homeless problem is actually ****ed up if you think about it.

Ireland at least has an excuse. This country has only been 'developed' for an incredibly short amount of time in it's 800 year history. (only 25+ years).

The United States has been a superpower since post WWII (70+ years). Yet they have a big homeless and prison population.

biko

Why will your friend be evicted?

Fritzbox

nicholasIII wrote: »

I just heard that a close friend of mine who lives in New York will be evicted and soon to be homeless. They don't have any close friends at the moment so they are staying in their car thankfully.

How can the "World's Greatest Country" have such a large homeless epidemic? And even have the largest number of its citizens incarcerated? When my dad was growing up in Egypt in the 70s, when you mentioned a "good, wealthy" country, America was the first thing that came to everyone's minds. He heard nothing but good things.

Today, nearly everyone has a negative opinion. Probably got worse since 9/11. And of course 2016-2020 was probably the four worst years America has ever had politically speaking.

Would anyone still move there? Assuming they don't come from a developing country?

A lot of Irish people still want to move to America - going through the misery of applying for visas and all that...

Quite possible to become homeless in Europe too, if not to the same extent as as in America.

Allinall

biko wrote: »

Why will your friend be evicted?

This.

Is he not paying his rent?

AdrianBalboa

The Reagan-era dismantling of the welfare state and demonisation of social welfare recipients along with the deregulation of financial institutions starting in the early 80s transferred wealth and power in the US from the people to the elite.

This has ensured that the living standards of Americans (along with the rest of the western world) has stagnated or declined while more and more wealth is hoovered up by a wealthy few.

Sonics2k

It was always a lie. American internal propaganda and movies were made to make the country seem a hell of a lot better than it is.

Ubbquittious

Fritzbox wrote: »

A lot of Irish people still want to move to America - going through the misery of applying for visas and all that...

Never really understood this unless they're going over for beours

Fritzbox

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Never really understood this unless they're going over for beours

I can understand it if the would-be emigrants had a profession or qualification which is in big demand in the US and where it is possible to really make it big if you were good at what you do, actor, film maker or something in the Hi-Tech industries.
If you earned your living as a barman or bricklayer, what attractions does the US hold?

Thelonious Monk

they have a laissez-faire standard towards welfare, and are of the belief that it's up to the individual to sort out their problems and not the state. They blame the poor for being poor.

Fr Tod Umptious

Fritzbox wrote: »

I can understand it if the would-be emigrants had a profession or qualification which is in big demand in the US and where it is possible to really make it big if you were good at what you do, actor, film maker or something in the Hi-Tech industries.
If you earned your living as a barman or bricklayer, what attractions does the US hold?

For trades people the money is very good and unlike Ireland, Americans have a habit of paying their trades people on time and in full.

People working in hospitality, bars etc, tend to be young and just over there for the adventure.
They are not too pushed about visas, healthcare etc, once they get tired of it they can just come home.

Options are very good for professional people as you say.

There is a great sense of value for the work you do in America.
You get payed well, taxes tend to be lower and you don't have the situation like you have in Ireland were people are not inclined to do extra work because it will kill them in tax.

Jinglejangle69

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

they have a laissez-faire standard towards welfare, and are of the belief that it's up to the individual to sort out their problems and not the state. They blame the poor for being poor.

Ireland could do well with adopting this attitude to a large cohort in the country.

nicholasIII

nicholasIII wrote: »

I just heard that a close friend of mine who lives in New York will be evicted and soon to be homeless. They don't have any close friends at the moment so they are staying in their car thankfully.

How can the "World's Greatest Country" have such a large homeless epidemic? And even have the largest number of its citizens incarcerated? When my dad was growing up in Egypt in the 70s, when you mentioned a "good, wealthy" country, America was the first thing that came to everyone's minds. He heard nothing but good things.

Today, nearly everyone has a negative opinion. Probably got worse since 9/11. And of course 2016-2020 was probably the four worst years America has ever had politically speaking.

Would anyone still move there? Assuming they don't come from a developing country?

If I didn't have a child who is settled here and going to school, I would love to move to America.

America is so vast and outside of **** holes like California there are some beautiful states. Saying America is **** because of new York's problem is like saying don't go to Ireland because there are junkies on Talbot Street.

Arthur45

Sonics2k wrote: »

It was always a lie. American internal propaganda and movies were made to make the country seem a hell of a lot better than it is.

When you see the recent event in US, I think it is one of the worst democracy in the world.

ToxicPaddy

I know a good few that went to the US to live and work, some loved it, some hated it.

They worked in everything from the trades, to finance to tech.

But they all said the same things. Don't get sick there and don't buy into the credit card culture there.

The average American home has an unbelievable amount of debt from mortgages and the car finance to credit cards and education fees. If you have the income to cover it, good for you but if you get sick that's it, you're pretty much finished unless you have a massive amount stashed away.

The debt you were able to handle is now overwhelming. The job you had is gone as they can get rid of you in a blink of an eye and any money you had is gone as when your job goes, your health cover goes.

This has merely been amplified over the years and the political views have become more extreme. Those who have wealth want to keep it and grow it, those who don't are being kept down but want to get it and all groups go to more extreme lengths to keep or get it. Hence the rise in crime both violent by the have nots and financial by the haves so nothing is really safe anymore.

I was very tempted to move there in my 20s but not a hope now. Nice to visit but that's about as much as I'd do, visit every few years.

Around 1492 when Colombus arrived.

monkeysnapper

I visited America last January for 2 weeks .... family holiday... we were so lucky we had our holiday before everything went into lock down .

Anyway I wouldn't want to live there .... I remember a top gear episode where Jeremy said something like " in America their very fat, very stupid and very rude.... this isn't the holiday show ... its a fact.....

And I couldn't agree more ...

I'm not originally from Ireland but I've travelled a bit and Ireland is a great place to live and bring up a family .... obviously I suppose that depends where you live in Ireland but where I live its great.

Just wish the weather was a bit better

I see sheep

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Ireland could do well with adopting this attitude to a large cohort in the country.

Has a law been passed in Ireland that makes it mandatory to use this awful word in every bloody sentence now?

Jimbob1977

An image that has remained with me for twenty years...

In 1998, I was over in the States on a J-1 visa.

It was near the end of the trip and we were staying at a motel in Waukegan, Illinois.

It was around 11pm and I was feeling a bit hungry, so I went to the petrol station around the corner for a drink and crisps.

Behind the counter (perspex or bullet proof) was an elderly cashier.

He looked around 75 years old. Possibly 80. He was shuffling around slowly, like he had arthritis. A customer waited impatiently and sighing (Americans are incredibly impatient) while the cashier prepared the bill.

I could not believe that a man of his age needed to work in a petrol station late at night. How did he end up like this? Did he need the money that badly? What did his family think about their Dad working a night shift?

I can't think of many countries on Earth where a septugenarian or octogenarian pensioner has to work a graveyard shift to make a few dollars. For all I know, he was a decorated World War 2 veteran.

Great for a holiday. Could never live there.

Ubbquittious

monkeysnapper wrote: »

I visited America last January for 2 weeks .... family holiday... we were so lucky we had our holiday before everything went into lock down .

Anyway I wouldn't want to live there .... I remember a top gear episode where Jeremy said something like " in America their very fat, very stupid and very rude.... this isn't the holiday show ... its a fact.....

And I couldn't agree more ...

I'm not originally from Ireland but I've travelled a bit and Ireland is a great place to live and bring up a family .... obviously I suppose that depends where you live in Ireland but where I live its great.

Just wish the weather was a bit better

There's plenty fat and stupid, thats for sure. However I don't think the majority are rude. I have been over a good few times and found most of them were very friendly, albeit in an insincere too good to be true sort of a way. Still I gave them the benefit of the doubt and none of them ever wronged me.

Jimbob1977

Ubbquittious wrote: »

There's plenty fat and stupid, thats for sure. However I don't think the majority are rude. I have been over a good few times and found most of them were very friendly, albeit in an insincere too good to be true sort of a way. Still I gave them the benefit of the doubt and none of them ever wronged me.

Americans tend to view friendships as "what can I get out of this?"

Pleasant, but typically superficial

Smee_Again

Why’s he living in his car if he hasn’t been evicted yet?

Harry Palmr

States bus thier homeless to other states with a few grand in thier hand to fool them into moving

Yurt2

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Ireland could do well with adopting this attitude to a large cohort in the country.

Oh don't worry Jingle there's more than enough of your sort to go around. Message received. Let's increase the amount of homelessness so there'll be less homelessness, right?

And we can all stand around our newly minted homeless shouting abuse and telling them pull yourself up by the bootstraps stories. We could even get Bill Cullen in as a guest speaker.

Your Face

Situation: Friend is to be evicted.

Reaction: dE WhoLE CoUntRy iZ gONe wROnG

Jimbob1977

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

Americans tend to view friendships as "what can I get out of this?"

Pleasant, but typically superficial

TBF, that attitude is pretty common throughout the world. It's the friendships that last past the other people getting what they want, that tend to last. And be meaningful. (sorry about the wording.. a wine bottle in, and everything is going a bit sluggish)

Billy Mays

A massive amount of Americans just don't give a f*ck about anyone but themselves. Freedom to not wear a mask during a pandemic trumps other people's right to life. Freedom to own an assault rifle trumps the lives of school children etc...

Millions upon millions of people living paycheck to paycheck or working 2 or 3 jobs to get by. Crap labour laws (annual leave, maternity leave etc.). Going bankrupt from getting sick. The country politically divided more than ever. One party in particular doing their best to screw over the less fortunate.

Mate of mine is moving back to Ireland with his wife (American) and young kids having been over there for 25+ years as it's not a place he wants to bring them up in anymore.

Notmything

Look up your previous account's threads, im sure you'll find the answer there.

nicholasIII

Looks like you are talking about the USA, as opposed to America. Lots of Irish people make the mistake of judging the whole country, which is massive and incredibly diverse, based on a holiday that they had in one city. I grew up in Utah, and you couldn't begin to compare life in Salt Lake City to life in NYC.

nicholasIII wrote: »

I just heard that a close friend of mine who lives in New York will be evicted and soon to be homeless. They don't have any close friends at the moment so they are staying in their car thankfully.

He didn't pay his rent, so he's going to get evicted. The USA is very straight-forwarded when it comes to things like this. If he pays his rent, he can move back into his apartment. New York is dead at the moment, so he should be able to find a new home quickly. You are not going to get to live in a $500K home rent free in the USA.

AdrianBalboa wrote: »

The Reagan-era dismantling of the welfare state and demonisation of social welfare recipients along with the deregulation of financial institutions starting in the early 80s transferred wealth and power in the US from the people to the elite.

This has ensured that the living standards of Americans (along with the rest of the western world) has stagnated or declined while more and more wealth is hoovered up by a wealthy few.

Very good. Reagan got the ball rolling, and President after President put big business first. It is going to take decades to fix the country. People are desperate for change, and the election of Trump was a product of that desperation.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

[/b]For trades people the money is very good and unlike Ireland, Americans have a habit of paying their trades people on time and in full.

People working in hospitality, bars etc, tend to be young and just over there for the adventure.
They are not too pushed about visas, healthcare etc, once they get tired of it they can just come home.

Options are very good for professional people as you say.

There is a great sense of value for the work you do in America.
You get payed well, taxes tend to be lower and you don't have the situation like you have in Ireland were people are not inclined to do extra work because it will kill them in tax.

Another great post. The working culture in the two countries is very, very different. I got some work done in our house when we moved to Ireland, and the carpenter was shocked when I paid him in full, on time. Told me it was very rare in Ireland, and people try to pull every trick in the book to screw you over here.

bennyineire

Maybe start by asking an African American when was it every right?

Peoples illusion of the U.S. being at it's height is generally 50's/60's but in fact at that time it was an apartheid state, everything since has been a very slow attempt at rebalance that has utterly failed.

The U.S. I fear is beyond repair

atilladehun

nicholasIII wrote: »

I just heard that a close friend of mine who lives in New York will be evicted and soon to be homeless. They don't have any close friends at the moment so they are staying in their car thankfully.

I know it's not your core question but homelessness is a global issue. Every time it comes up it's always looked at in a localised way but check out the media in all of Europe, Canada, Australia and anywhere else and you'll find the same question. How can we fix the homeless issue in X city.

It's possible to list the reasons for the problem. Blaming individuals for not working. Being unlucky with health and losing everything.

Blaming governments for not planning for its population. Or how they push property prices because most in society are someway invested in it. And how they're stuck on the merry go round of national loans, bonds and world finance.

It's like global warming, until it's profitable to keep everyone in a house there will always be homelessness.

There's 16,000 to 20,000 empty homes in NYC.

Anthony soprano is king

My experience with USA is that its all about the dollar you either have it or you don't.
Welfare system is non existant in comparison with ireland.

Its an amazing place if you are wealthy but if your struggling it is a cold country.

Sonics2k

tara2k wrote: »

He didn't pay his rent, so he's going to get evicted. The USA is very straight-forwarded when it comes to things like this. If he pays his rent, he can move back into his apartment. New York is dead at the moment, so he should be able to find a new home quickly. You are not going to get to live in a $500K home rent free in the USA.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but you're basing his eviction on non-payment of rent on literally nothing. So far as I can see, the OP didn't give any reason.

I've quite a few American friends and colleagues who've worked there for years, and I've even considered moving there myself, excluding New York or California simply due to the cost of living, but the US does by and large offer little in the way of protection to renters. It's very possible to simply get home someday and find that you're being evicted, or fired from your job.

ELM327

The US gets a lot of things right and some things wrong.

Their social welfare policy is much better than the welfare state we have here. They also have a better more equitable tax system as you pay more taxes on your property than you do on a salary - compared to here. I have no issue with their gun control policies either.

The problem is a poor education system leading to uninformed extremists on both sides. You've got the outraged superwoke Karen (white woman, mid 40s, cries and screams at you for not being a white knight archdemocrat) and equally on the other side you've got the fat lower socioeconomic redneck trump supporter who votes Red despite not really knowing why as they offer less social protections than democrats.

Both of these positions come from poor education and the removal of the requirement to provide balanced news coverage.

TheRef

Main issue is the constitution. Mericans see it as the gospel and assumes the world hasn't changed in the last 250 years.

It's used to justify FREEDOM, something that no other country in the world has. :pac:

Oh, and the fear of socialism. Helping others is one step away from communism. Can't be having that.

Cee-Jay-Cee

Batattackrat wrote: »

If your poor and on welfare in Ireland you get by quite comfortably.

I'll correct that for you. If you live in Ireland and were poor and found yourself on welfare where everything is paid for you, rent, medical care, school costs, fuel allowance along with being given a wedge of cash each week for your own use and even more if you have children, then you will no longer be poor.

riffmongous

TheRef wrote: »

Oh, and the fear of socialism. Helping others is one step away from communism. Can't be having that.

And yet Christianity is so important still, f*'d up

Its collapse began with the Twenty-second Amendment.

It has been in freefall since Nixon.

Stovepipe

You have what is effectively 52 countries fighting to take from the same pot. It might be a Federal republic but it's nothing like Germany, where each State has it's own sub-government but they are much more integrated for the common good. In Germany, when a road is built, it is seen as being for the common good of the country and the state,whereas in America, they'll argue night and day about who's going to pay for it. The bad weather is Texas recently is a classic example; Texas is not integrated into the national grid, by it's own choice, so they could not import gas or electricity from nearby States. How stupid is that?! Nationally,their electric, road, rail and gas infrastructure is creaking at the seams.
The police are effectively thousands of police forces, from the smallest town to the biggest city and range from forces that have squadrons of helicopters and world-class forensics to impoverished forces that can't afford to replace their patrol cars and often operate on the verge of bankruptcy. When absolutely every civil official of any kind, great or minor in role, has to be re-elected every four years,the ordinary civil service processes that we take for granted can come to a grinding halt. Every school teacher faces the axe every year and it is routine for school teachers to be laid off for summer holidays and be rehired in the new school year.Many don't get rehired,so they have to move to get hired someplace else. It's about on a par with pulling up with a van outside a pub in Kilburn looking for day labourers. The college system is a sinkhole of debt.
Running a country as a business is not right. We don't always get it right, in many ways, buy we do it better.

Strumms

Batattackrat wrote: »

If your poor and on welfare in Ireland you get by quite comfortably.

If your poor and on welfare in the States it's a whole different ball game.

This 1000%

Best place with things going well..

They do jack shït for you if you hit a speed bump.

KungPao

It’s messed up.

I know a man, lovely fella, bit of a Ned Flanders, worked hard for his family as an educator in Small Town, USA. Poor bastard got cancer, and faced being ruined by the medical bills. He was worried that when he passed away his family would be financially fooked. Anyway, long story short, he started making Nazi Crank and became a big time drug lord, messing with Mexican cartels, dissolving bodies in acid, the lot.

Only in America.

jrosen

Your friend just needs to pay his rent and he wont be evicted. Are they both out of work?
Where is he in NYC? the city or state?

At the moment rents in manhattan are reduced due the number of people who have left the city. There are literally thousands of apartments to rent right now.

The Nal

Usual hysteria Im seeing here. Lazy stuff.

Its a mixed bag, like any other country. They actually have less homeless per population than Ireland, way less, and the UK, and Sweden and Australia.....

Most of America looks like this.



Normal boring uneventful people with normal boring uneventful families and normal boring uneventful jobs who are having normal boring uneventful "what do you fancy for dinner?" conversations just like anyone else.

Just because we see things that are newsworthy on telly or social media doesn't mean its the norm. Its not. Its because its newsworthy.

KungPao wrote: »

It’s messed up.

I know a man, lovely fella, bit of a Ned Flanders, worked hard for his family as an educator in Small Town, USA. Poor bastard got cancer, and faced being ruined by the medical bills. He was worried that when he passed away his family would be financially fooked. Anyway, long story short, he started making Nazi Crank and became a big time drug lord, messing with Mexican cartels, dissolving bodies in acid, the lot.

Only in America.

Or Mexico.......

Hyperbollix

Ronald Reagan. His era saw the beginning of the slide into the morass they're in today.

Continuous chipping away at sensible laws which sought to distribute wealth with some degree of fairness, laws to enable poorer sectors of society to get to tertiary education, labour laws and unionisation began to be decimated in the 80's and will probably never recover. Just a slow steady descent into a corporate state where elected representatives only serve their donors and democracy itself is a rigged game, a charade to keep the plebs quiet while the elite gorge and gorge and gorge.

For all it's many flaws, when you think of where America was in the post war period up until the last 20/30 years its been a very sad decline for a country which was once a place people all over the world dreamed of living.

I would only move to America now if I had no intention of having a family and had money burning a hole in my pocket, and even then there are many places ahead of it in the list of destinations.....

Yurt2

The Nal wrote: »

Usual hysteria Im seeing here. Lazy stuff.

Its a mixed bag, like any other country. They actually have less homeless per population than Ireland, way less, and the UK, and Sweden and Australia.....
..

You're going to have to be pulled up on this. America doesn't even take care to count its homeless population correctly.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/28/opinion/homeless-america-data.html

You'll have a hard time convincing anyone who has been to Seattle, SF, NY or a myriad of other cities, that the US has a less severe problem than Ireland (which isn't pretty in the first instance) on this front.

If you're going to accuse people of laziness, take the time to fact-check yourself before posting.

KungPao

The Nal wrote: »

Or Mexico.......

¿Qué?

The Nal

Yurt! wrote: »

You're going to have to be pulled up on this. America doesn't even take care to count its homeless population correctly.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/28/opinion/homeless-america-data.html

You'll have a hard time convincing anyone who has been to Seattle, SF, NY or a myriad of other cities, that the US has a less severe problem than Ireland (which isn't pretty in the first instance) on this front.

If you're going to accuse people of laziness, take the time to fact-check yourself before posting.

One opinion piece thats vague on details and kind of suits your point? Wow!

I've been to New York, San Francisco, LA, and San Diego in a last few years. Horrendous homeless populations. People with literally nothing, lying asleep/unconscious face down on the pavement. SF and San Diego in particular I'm in no rush to go back to. But I have read a lot about it after I was there.

Homeless figures aren't particularly accurate anywhere really and like your article says, can swing wildly even from day to day. But we have an idea.

But even if you take that 568,000 number and double it, they would still have less homeless than the UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Sweden, Germany...

Just because someone in Seattle saw a load of homeless doesn't mean theres the same proportion of homeless everywhere else.

I am tekashi 6ix9ine

KungPao wrote: »

It’s messed up.

I know a man, lovely fella, bit of a Ned Flanders, worked hard for his family as an educator in Small Town, USA. Poor bastard got cancer, and faced being ruined by the medical bills. He was worried that when he passed away his family would be financially fooked. Anyway, long story short, he started making Nazi Crank and became a big time drug lord, messing with Mexican cartels, dissolving bodies in acid, the lot.

Only in America.

Tell us more about this story fascinating stuff.