Double bale handler question

leex

Case Farmall 115U here with a loader. Hoping to buy a double bale handler in next couple of months. Rear lift rated at 2900kg at 24". Should we have any concerns with 2 Fusion silage bales + carrier on back plus 1 fusion bale on loader?

Any recommendations on Fleming vs Nugent or AN Other? Need one with trip to place bales on end.

Bass Reeves

leex wrote: »

Case Farmall 115U here with a loader. Hoping to buy a double bale handler in next couple of months. Rear lift rated at 2900kg at 24". Should we have any concerns with 2 Fusion silage bales + carrier on back plus 1 fusion bale on loader?

Any recommendations on Fleming vs Nugent or AN Other? Need one with trip to place bales on end.

I do not think the tractor will lift two fusion bales at the back. When a tractor is rated at 24'' it is rated at virtually the balls of the arms. This is actually like this weight was vertically placed on the ends of the end of the arms. A bale will be 50-55 inches behind this.

I have a McCormick international rear lift is rated at over 3000 kgs and it will not lift two bales of dry silage

oxjkqg

leex wrote: »

Case Farmall 115U here with a loader. Hoping to buy a double bale handler in next couple of months. Rear lift rated at 2900kg at 24". Should we have any concerns with 2 Fusion silage bales + carrier on back plus 1 fusion bale on loader?

Any recommendations on Fleming vs Nugent or AN Other? Need one with trip to place bales on end.

Hi, there would be no problem provided the stuff isnt dripping wet silage!
1 thing to note that seems to catch a few people, as i make handlers myself, is with some handlers they have the handler pushed back 100-150mm further away from the tractor than it should be which is a lot in terms of the way the weight is distributed. I make the paddle type handlers and the trick is to keep the handler as close into the tractor, with the right geometry and u will have very little strain on your tractor or backend.

your tractor should be more than up to it.

DBK1

leex wrote: »

Case Farmall 115U here with a loader. Hoping to buy a double bale handler in next couple of months. Rear lift rated at 2900kg at 24". Should we have any concerns with 2 Fusion silage bales + carrier on back plus 1 fusion bale on loader?

Any recommendations on Fleming vs Nugent or AN Other? Need one with trip to place bales on end.

Tractor should be well able for it. There’s a local man here that provides a bale drawing and stacking service for farmers with a double handler and soft hands using a Farmall 115U.

He spends most of the summer at bales and I’ve never heard him having any problems lifting any type of bales. His brother drives a Fusion for a contractor so he ends up stacking a lot of them bales.

Bass Reeves

oxjkqg wrote: »

Hi, there would be no problem provided the stuff isnt dripping wet silage!
1 thing to note that seems to catch a few people, as i make handlers myself, is with some handlers they have the handler pushed back 100-150mm further away from the tractor than it should be which is a lot in terms of the way the weight is distributed. I make the paddle type handlers and the trick is to keep the handler as close into the tractor, with the right geometry and u will have very little strain on your tractor or backend.

your tractor should be more than up to it.

On the McCormick the lift rating is 3800 kgs. My bale handler had the lift point for the linkages within the frame. My silage was over 50%DM. Tractor would only lift two bale 3-4'' of the ground. I was surprised but unless the lift data for my tractor is wrong on tractor data I think you need a lift capacity of 5k to lift two bales. The farmall is designed wit two lift capacities. The higher rating is 5600 kgs that's the one you need to lift two bales

DBK1

Bass Reeves wrote: »

On the McCormick the lift rating is 3800 kgs. My name handler had the lift point for the linkages within the frame. My silage was over 50%DM. Tractor would only lift two bale 3-4'' of the ground. I was surprised but unless the lift data for my tractor is wrong on tractor data I think you need a lift capacity of 5k to lift two bales. The farmall is designed wit two lift capacities. The higher rating is 5600 kgs that's the one you need to lift two bales

According to tractor data the TL90 has a lift capacity of 2,970kgs. We’d only have it on the double lifter a few times a year when the bigger one is at something else but it never has an issue lifting 2 bales to any height.

The silage would never be as dry as 50%, probably down around 35 to 40%. I’d expect the bales are somewhere in the 7-800kgs weight range.

Mooooo

Fusion bales, esp if they end up near the 24% dm range can have a fair weight on them. They'd make the 7840 light in the front even with the half tonne up front and she has painfully short lift arms. 412 would be light at the back lifting two of em as well. If small amount of work she may do but if doing alot it may be a bit much

DBK1

Mooooo wrote: »

Fusion bales, esp if they end up near the 24% dm range can have a fair weight on them. They'd make the 7840 light in the front even with the half tonne up front and she has painfully short lift arms. 412 would be light at the back lifting two of em as well. If small amount of work she may do but if doing alot it may be a bit much

Down at 24% you’d be expecting the bales to be very close to the 1 ton mark. 2 of them definitely would make the front light but once you’d pick one up on the loader as well weight balance shouldn’t be an issue. You’d just want to be taking your time travelling with them then.

K.G.

Used to have a tl 100 with 2 on the back and 1 on the front and had no problems so should be fine

GrasstoMilk

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I do not think the tractor will lift two fusion bales at the back. When a tractor is rated at 24'' it is rated at virtually the balls of the arms. This is actually like this weight was vertically placed on the ends of the end of the arms. A bale will be 50-55 inches behind this.

I have a McCormick international rear lift is rated at over 3000 kgs and it will not lift two bales of dry silage

Double bale handler on a 2010 5445 and stacker on front
No problem, wouldnt be able with out the bale on front though

Dunedin

leex wrote: »

Case Farmall 115U here with a loader. Hoping to buy a double bale handler in next couple of months. Rear lift rated at 2900kg at 24". Should we have any concerns with 2 Fusion silage bales + carrier on back plus 1 fusion bale on loader?

I got the loan of one last year as wanted to try before I buy. I have case 105u.

Two on the back and one on the front. fushion Bales and were fairly dry. No issue whatsoever with lifting them but I took my time drawing them in. However I decided against it in the end as it’s a lot of weight and was just more comfortable with the one on back and not too.

Could you get the loan of one somewhere to try it because a lot will depend on where your traveling, hills, potentially soft ground, etc.

endainoz

Would there not also be a concern of the tractor being under serious pressure with the bale on the front aswell? My mechanic had said to me that lads in medium sized tractors with double bale handlers and a loader run a serious risk of splitting the tractor in the middle.

It's not something I actually heard of happening but still it's a scary thought! Definitely won't be carrying 3 on the zetor this summer!

emaherx

endainoz wrote: »

Would there not also be a concern of the tractor being under serious pressure with the bale on the front aswell? My mechanic had said to me that lads in medium sized tractors with double bale handlers and a loader run a serious risk of splitting the tractor in the middle.

It's not something I actually heard of happening but still it's a scary thought! Definitely won't be carrying 3 on the zetor this summer!

It definitely can happen and I've seen it, however most modern loader brackets strengthen the chassis by being bolted at the front of the tractor right back to the rear axle to prevent the tractor splitting.

TooOldBoots

A Case Farmall 115U is a fine tractor. No better way to blagard it by overloading the front and back-end with bales.
Carrying two bales will wear the back wheel bearings, once they get worn then they put pressure on the rest of the drive train. A good way to take years off the life of a tractor.
Its easy to tell a tractor that has done a lot of bale drawing along the roads, there is a grinding whirr coming from the back of the tractor.

9935452

oxjkqg wrote: »

Hi, there would be no problem provided the stuff isnt dripping wet silage!
1 thing to note that seems to catch a few people, as i make handlers myself, is with some handlers they have the handler pushed back 100-150mm further away from the tractor than it should be which is a lot in terms of the way the weight is distributed. I make the paddle type handlers and the trick is to keep the handler as close into the tractor, with the right geometry and u will have very little strain on your tractor or backend.

your tractor should be more than up to it.

Totally agree, the closer it is to the tractor the better. Even by a few inches.
Ive made a few paddle type ones. Mine have the centre of the pins 4 inches to the back of the bale. On a hook lift arm its very close to rubbing the bale .
Ive measured a few trip ones. The worst one was 13 inches from the pin to the back of the bale .
End result is ive used mine on a 80hp 2wd crystal with 250kg on the nose drawing fusion bales without any issue

oxjkqg

9935452 wrote: »

Totally agree, the closer it is to the tractor the better. Even by a few inches.
Ive made a few paddle type ones. Mine have the centre of the pins 4 inches to the back of the bale. On a hook lift arm its very close to rubbing the bale .
Ive measured a few trip ones. The worst one was 13 inches from the pin to the back of the bale .
End result is ive used mine on a 80hp 2wd crystal with 250kg on the nose drawing fusion bales without any issue

Correct, makes all the difference really in your tractor being balanced and unbalanced.
Crystal with a double handler be some gig

Absolutly no issue with tractors and double handlers, if the stabilisers are kept tight and your not going up and down the road at 40km/h with your 3 bales there is no issues. This myth about tractors splitting in the middle - if you have an issue with a tractor splitting a double bale handler is the least of your problems.

emaherx

oxjkqg wrote: »

Correct, makes all the difference really in your tractor being balanced and unbalanced.
Crystal with a double handler be some gig

Absolutly no issue with tractors and double handlers, if the stabilisers are kept tight and your not going up and down the road at 40km/h with your 3 bales there is no issues. This myth about tractors splitting in the middle - if you have an issue with a tractor splitting a double bale handler is the least of your problems.

It's far from a myth, it's simple physics and the modular design used in the standard tractor chassis for decades. If it wasn't an issue why do all of the loader manufacturers now make brackets that are nearly the full length of the tractor instead of just bolted to the front section?

Also the reason why JCB type diggers have not been built on tractor chassis since the very early days.

josephsoap

9935452 wrote: »

Totally agree, the closer it is to the tractor the better. Even by a few inches.
Ive made a few paddle type ones. Mine have the centre of the pins 4 inches to the back of the bale. On a hook lift arm its very close to rubbing the bale .
Ive measured a few trip ones. The worst one was 13 inches from the pin to the back of the bale .
End result is ive used mine on a 80hp 2wd crystal with 250kg on the nose drawing fusion bales without any issue

https://www.donedeal.ie/view/27431096

This one looks like the centre pins would be very close to the bale.

leex

Thanks for all the feedback. Definite food for thought.

If I went for a piped bale trailer with brakes what would be a safe number of bales to tow that would be within tractors towing capacity and safe on the road?

emaherx

The safe/legal load will be the lowest of the rated weights for the tractor and the plated trailer. Or else 5 tonne if unplated, (probably around 6 bales + the trailer).
.

Those pipe type bale trailers are probably illegal anyway as the law states every bale must have a strap across it and most I've seen have no way of strapping down bales at all.

leex

emaherx wrote: »

The safe/legal load will be the lowest of the rated weights for the tractor and the plated trailer. Or else 5 tonne if unplated, (probably around 6 bales + the trailer).
.

Those pipe type bale trailers are probably illegal anyway as the law states every bale must have a strap across it and most I've seen have no way of strapping down bales at all.

I see a few being made with an extra pipe across back with lights so it should be possible to use 2 x ratchet straps from back to front.

Brakes and plate/certification are available on 2 of the trailers I looked at. Would the plate allow much more legal weight typically?

This would be used mostly for a long field draw with about last 300m on road. A new 8 bale trailer plated with brakes and lights would be around 1800eur ish vs half that price roughly for a "decent" used 6 bale with no brakes, lights or plate. The new larger one would be preferred as long as I was fully road legal with it. A flatbed would be outside of budget right now.

emaherx

leex wrote: »

I see a few being made with an extra pipe across back with lights so it should be possible to use 2 x ratchet straps from back to front.

Brakes and plate/certification are available on 2 of the trailers I looked at. Would the plate allow much more legal weight typically?

This would be used mostly for a long field draw with about last 300m on road. A new 8 bale trailer plated with brakes and lights would be around 1800eur ish vs half that price roughly for a "decent" used 6 bale with no brakes, lights or plate. The new larger one would be preferred as long as I was fully road legal with it. A flatbed would be outside of budget right now.

The plate will in most cases allow considerably more weight. The max weight for an unplated trailer is 5 tonne including the weight of the trailer so about 6 bales max on that type of trailer.

If the trailer is braked and plated with adequate lighting then no reason you wouldn't be fully road legal with a couple of straps.

9935452

josephsoap wrote: »

https://www.donedeal.ie/view/27431096

This one looks like the centre pins would be very close to the bale.

That one looks like a carbon copy of the ones i made bar min would have been a little heavier with a bit more bracing . 10mm wall thickness on the 4inch box iron , with heavy duty bushes and genuine kv tines.

leex

emaherx wrote: »

The plate will in most cases allow considerably more weight. The max weight for an unplated trailer is 5 tonne including the weight of the trailer so about 6 bales max on that type of trailer.

If the trailer is braked and plated with adequate lighting then no reason you wouldn't be fully road legal with a couple of straps.

Is there much involved in getting an older trailer plated? Is it a road worthiness certificate or simply a rating for speeds/weights?

selectamatic

leex wrote: »

I see a few being made with an extra pipe across back with lights so it should be possible to use 2 x ratchet straps from back to front.

RSA could still do ya for that if they felt like it though.

They had a tractor and load of bales up on Twitter last year with a similar strapping technique and said it was insufficient.

emaherx

leex wrote: »

Is there much involved in getting an older trailer plated? Is it a road worthiness certificate or simply a rating for speeds/weights?

There are companies advertising on Dondeal to certify and plate trailers. Some will even do any work required to bring them up to spec such as brakes etc.

It is simply just a rating for speeds/weights, without plating it will be assumed 5 tonne and under 40kph

emaherx

selectamatic wrote: »

RSA could still do ya for that if they felt like it though.

They had a tractor and load of bales up on Twitter last year with a similar strapping technique and said it was insufficient.

I'd bet that vehicle had other issues too.

Issue is the tie down requirements are very vague, and mearly state that loads need to be adequately tied down.

selectamatic

emaherx wrote: »

I'd bet that vehicle had other issues too.

Issue is the tie down requirements are very vague, and mearly state that loads need to be adequately tied down.

Yep iirc the tax was out 13 years :pac: but they made a point about the straps too and stated points and a fine were issued.

josephsoap

Looking to upgrade my tipping trailer with one that could be also be used for drawing bales for the coming season

Would the likes of a 14 x 7’6” tipping trailer hold 6 bales in the total on the floor (3 each side) with out the use of any bale extension that sometimes comes with them.

Water John

Bale diameter is 1.2m just under 12 ft for 3 bales.

Jb1989

Water John wrote: »

Bale diameter is 1.2m just under 12 ft for 3 bales.

Yea a 4 x4 bale in the old language.

hopeso

josephsoap wrote: »

Looking to upgrade my tipping trailer with one that could be also be used for drawing bales for the coming season

Would the likes of a 14 x 7’6” tipping trailer hold 6 bales in the total on the floor (3 each side) with out the use of any bale extension that sometimes comes with them.

Yes, 14' would be plenty. I carry 6 bales as you describe on a 13', and they overhang slightly at the rear....

Grueller

hopeso wrote: »

Yes, 14' would be plenty. I carry 6 bales as you describe on a 13', and they overhang slightly at the rear....

I do the same and then 2 on top. Then 14 on a bale trailer with the other tractor. 22 in at a time and you don't be long shifting them.

lab man

I've a similar system here bought a double axle trailer about 5 yr ago brings 14 and one my father and I made off an old p&t truck Carrys 11 I'm thinking of putting a slide type floor on the dbl axle trailer so it can be extended another 4 ft by a hyd ram for carrying hay

Ford4life

josephsoap wrote: »

Looking to upgrade my tipping trailer with one that could be also be used for drawing bales for the coming season

Would the likes of a 14 x 7’6” tipping trailer hold 6 bales in the total on the floor (3 each side) with out the use of any bale extension that sometimes comes with them.

It would, have used a hourihane trailer and with the backdoor on and the fusion bales a little big sagged down just put on the front and back bales first and then drop the middle one down then and you wont tear the sides of the bale

Ford4life

leex wrote: »

Case Farmall 115U here with a loader. Hoping to buy a double bale handler in next couple of months. Rear lift rated at 2900kg at 24". Should we have any concerns with 2 Fusion silage bales + carrier on back plus 1 fusion bale on loader?

Any recommendations on Fleming vs Nugent or AN Other? Need one with trip to place bales on end.

As long as theres atleast a single assistor ram on her it wont be a bother to her, ford 7810 is rated at 1800kg and with a single assistor ram she'll lift 2 fusion bales for us that would be 800kgs each roughly plus the handler youd be touching 2200kgs