If we had similar laws to US would you own a gun?

WrenBoy

I wouldn't want to be the only fella without one so Yes I would get one if I lived in America or in an Ireland with American laws.

BattleCorp

Nekarsulm wrote: »

T
And hopefully save five or ten cent per cartridge.

And have much more accurate and reliable ammo.

Probable but I would rather we not adopt their system because I think my desire to be ready for the zombie apocalypse probable isn't the reason everyone else wants one.

delboythedub

ShyMets wrote: »

Was that in Ireland. As handguns are banned

Handguns are not banned in ireland unless it's a centre fire

BattleCorp

delboythedub wrote: »

Handguns are not banned in ireland unless it's a centre fire

And even then they aren't banned. This is a bit simplified but if you had a licence for it before November 2008 you can keep it but no new licences are being given out. So, not quite banned, but grandfathered.

2011

I think that the fact that so many people in Ireland are under the impression that "guns are illegal in Ireland" demonstrates that legally held firearms do not cause any issues in this country. Having said that I would not like Ireland to have many of the firearms laws that they have in the US even though I am a keen target shooter.

ShyMets wrote: »

Was that in Ireland. As handguns are banned

This is not correct.
Here is a .22 semi auto pistol for sale in Ireland.

Wibbs wrote: »

If we could have firearms other than shotguns and small calibre hunting rifles I'd probably have a couple, but from the historic/collecting side of things. I'd definitely have one of these.

It is possible to license rifles other than "small calibre hunting rifles". You can licence a .303 Lee Enfiled for example. We even have a Lee Enfiled Association in Ireland.

It is also possible to license firearms such as a .300 Winchester magnum.

ShatterAlan

Manic Moran wrote: »

I live in a place with US type firearms laws. Yes, I own guns.

That said, as another poster pointed out, I can't imagine Ireland would turn into the US even if, for whatever odd reason, the laws changed. There is something in a lot of the American psyche which indicates it is acceptable to shoot someone for 'dissing' them, or to get a pair of runners. I don't think Irish people would suddenly change to that sort of behaviour even with greater access to firearms. Certainly there are plenty enough well armed countries which demonstrate this.



To what end? You can spray-paint a real gun day-glow yellow/orange/green. If you treat it as a less-lethal, it could end badly for you.



Three issues. Firstly, nobody in my house is allergic to metals. Dogs, however, are another problem. Secondly, a gun is cheaper overall than a rottweiler or two. Thirdly, a dog isn't just an asset, it's a part of the family which requires care, attention, time etc. It's a commitment. Not all people are inclined towards taking a pet. A tool is much more convenient.



Sortof. It's actually in between the "it's American free-for-all" and "It's quite regulated" which most people go with. Firstly, just because the tin of ammo came with a warning saying "Only open in case of war", whatever the punishment is for opening it without authorisation, it's probably not much of a concern compared to the punishment of committing whatever mischief with a gun. However, as you say, it's no longer done, the gun is kept at home for whatever reason, but the government issued ammunition is now stored centrally.

However, people discussing this also forget that there is a healthy non-government-provided firearms scene in the country. Check out "Bloke on the Range" over on Youtube, a British chap in Switzerland.

The only other Western country I can think of which routinely permits citizens to be armed out and about is Czechia, and they're not doing too badly on the firearms crime side of things either. They have a few more hoops to go through to get a permit, but if you pass the hoops, you cannot be denied. About a quarter million people out of the population of 11million have a carry permit. (Well, they call it a Class E license, but close enough). Of course 'pistol' is a Czech word, so they're inclined that way. They also were very unhappy at the recent EU laws on certain semi-auto weapons.



A quick bit of googling later, the figure for "Defensive Gun Uses" is anything from 800,000 to 6million a year, depending on who you want to listen to and what criteria are used. The last time the US Government took a look at it was quite a few years ago (Clinton era, maybe?) and they concluded 2.5million was about right.

The last figure for "crimes committed with a firearm" is a few years old, 420,000, but the NIJ shows an interesting trend down from the high of 1.5million in the mid 1990s.



You just need the right holster. I never take mine off, be I armed or not. (It's an inside-waistband holster, and if I don't wear it to increase my effective waist size by 2", my trousers fall down). If it's in the right place, you don't notice it. The drop-leg I had in the Army was also very comfortable, just the right height to rest my hand.



Yes, but there's also a matter of need. For example, if you live in a high crime neighborhood, you may feel the need to have a gun, the crime being high regardless of your own activities.

For those who say you are more likely to be killed by your own gun, that's a matter of personal responsibility. If you don't store it right, or don't know how to use it, that's your own fault. However, it's worth noting that in the CDC study commissioned after Sandy Hook, it stated that those who defended themselves with a gun were more likely to come out of an encounter unharmed than those who used any other defensive technique. So it really does come down to personal responsibility. Owning a gun doesn't make you safer. Owning a gun and taking the time to learn how (and when) to use it, however, is another matter entirely.



Indeed, and conversely, criminals also take it for granted that a homeowner is probably armed with a gun. This means that they tend to take pains to ensure that the homeowner is not present in the first place. Burglary rates between the US and UK are generally similar, but the 'homeowner present' (AKA "hot burglary) rate is far lower in the US.



This line reminds me of the scene in "Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels"...
"What's that?"
"It's my Bren gun..."

The overwhelming majority of crimes are conducted with handguns. The overwhelming majority of firearms purchased for defense are handguns. There is only so big a handgun will get before it gets impractical to use. Most folks settle for a 9mm semi-auto or a .380, and it's generally stayed there for both sides.

Well, not necessarily automatic, but another person suggested learning jiu-jitsu for a year. Your typical little old lady has more chance with a pistol than in hand-to-hand.



Most people in Ireland also don't understand that every State also has a Constitution, and in the vast majority (About 44 of them), they also contain an analogue. Some of them are extremely specific such as "Every citizen has the right to keep and bear arms for security and defense, for lawful hunting and recreational use and for other lawful purposes"

I've always asked this question and can never get a logical asnwer.


Why do one own a gun or guns? And you NEVER get an answer other than the usual excuses.


You own guns because (a) they make you feel somewhat empowered and (b) you like them.



The excuses for owning a gun in the US are (i) for personal protection and (ii) for "hunting"


I thought the original reason for being armed was to defend against a tyrannical government...even though that's a myth. It was codified so that supporters from the colonies wouldn't be left behind.


I haven't seen too many armed Americans take up arms no matter what happens to their fellow citizens.



If the need to have a gun is to hunt...show me a fat cnut with a 12 gauge blasting quail out of the air or sniping a buck, between swigs of beer as if he needs to do this to feed his family.



Hunting is for necessity not for fun. Innuits hunt seals. Indigenous jungle tribes hunt boars and monkeys and it takes a while to win the hunt. They don't catch they don't eat. Whether they are using traps, spears, arrows. The American "hunter" doesn't shoot a bear or a deer or a caribou, then he stops off with his mates on the way home for a steak and a load of booze.



If you need to kill an animal and eat it to survive then you are a hunter. If you do it for entertainment and try to say that you are some kind of rugged frontiersman...then you are just full of shit

Nekarsulm

Well Alan, I own guns for several reasons.
Firstly, target shooting is fun.
Be that clay pigeon shooting or target shooting.
Both are tests of skill, enjoyed with the camaraderie of like minded individuals, and if course you are always trying to better your own score from the last day out.
Do I feel empowered by having one?
No, and why would I?
How does it empower me in any way?
Do you think I fantacize about walking around town scaring people, and get off on their fear?
Sorry, never felt like that, and I suspect neither do 99% of legal gun owners.
Illegal gun owners on the other hand, that's exactly what they want.
Because they're criminals. And need to instill fear into others to progress in their criminal dealings.
They will never have a legally held firearm, because no Garda Superintendent would ever sanction it.
And do you really think they would sign away their right to privacy in their own home, by agreeing that a Garda may inspect their home at any reasonable time, without a warrant?
That's what every legally held gun owner agrees to in the course of getting their licence.
The legal owner also signs away their right to the privacy off their own medical records, allowing a Garda get them from the gun owners GP if they want to.
Again, not the kind of thing a criminal will agree to, nor most other citizens either.
Also, I am a Sheppard, and have two firearms specifically suited for contingencies that arise in the course of the year.
At the moment ewes are lambing, and foxes are an ever present danger to newborn lambs.
A rifle is the surest and most humane way of keeping their numbers down, and saving lambs lives.
Likewise its necessary with the risk of dog attacks on my flock, and the damage couple of dogs can do make foxes look like Mother Theresa....
And finally, I have a shotgun to keep vermin down in the farmyard, and fields.
It's a different one to what I shoot clay pigeons with, a cheaper more knock-a-bout model, suited to farm work.
By vermin I mean rats, mink, grey crows and magpies.
Poisoning rat is not something I like doing, they die needlessly protracted deaths, and there is the real risk of buzzards and hawks getting poisoned by eating the corpse.
Its illegal to poison any bird, so trapping and shooting is the only way to keep their numbers under control.
So that's why I have the guns I do.
They are both tools for work, and equipment for sports.
I like the test of skill, the history behind them, the engineering involved, and the design features.
Same as a golfer with his clubs.
He couldn't hit a clay pigeon doing 40 mph across his field of vision, 30 yards away, with a 9 iron, and I couldn't drive a ball 180 yards to a green with double barrelled Baikal.
Is it that difficult to understand?

bnt

I had a few chances to play with guns when I lived in South Africa, including shotguns and an automatic assault rifle. I sometimes watch YouTube channels centred on guns, such as Demolition Ranch. But there still seems to be a gap between a vague interest in guns and a desire to own one.

The idea of keeping a gun on me or in the house is a non-starter for multiple reasons, starting with having never been in a situation in Ireland where a gun would have helped. It would only have made things worse.

2011

bnt wrote: »

The idea of keeping a gun on me or in the house is a non-starter for multiple reasons, starting with having never been in a situation in Ireland where a gun would have helped.

I find myself in a situation where having a gun helps about once a week. This happens most Sundays at a round 10am on the range where I target shoot.

Manic Moran

ShatterAlan wrote: »

I've always asked this question and can never get a logical asnwer.


Why do one own a gun or guns? And you NEVER get an answer other than the usual excuses.


You own guns because (a) they make you feel somewhat empowered and (b) you like them.

It’s a fair question, but I question your answer.

I’m my case, they have a practical use for defense of self, family and home, and they are also plain enjoyable sporting equipment as a hobby. I have not been one for hunting, myself.

The excuses for owning a gun in the US are (i) for personal protection and (ii) for "hunting"

I find your use of the word “excuse” illuminating. Does one need an “excuse” for everything one does? What’s my “excuse” for getting a pilot’s license, or having more than four cylinders in my car engine? Can one not simply decide to do something?

I thought the original reason for being armed was to defend against a tyrannical government...even though that's a myth. It was codified so that supporters from the colonies wouldn't be left behind.

If you want to look at the history of of it, the SCOTUS opinion in Heller gives a good background dating to British jurisprudence.

I haven't seen too many armed Americans take up arms no matter what happens to their fellow citizens.

Has the US become that dysfunctional that it is required to a level beyond local incidents which make nothing more than local news?

Hunting is for necessity not for fun. Innuits hunt seals. Indigenous jungle tribes hunt boars and monkeys and it takes a while to win the hunt. They don't catch they don't eat. Whether they are using traps, spears, arrows. The American "hunter" doesn't shoot a bear or a deer or a caribou, then he stops off with his mates on the way home for a steak and a load of booze.

As mentioned, I’m not one for hunting myself, but given the prevalence of it as an activity around the world, even in places where meat is available at the corner store, I am unconvinced that you opinion matches predominance. In addition, large amount of game is hunting to cull populations. Hogs, for example. Though lots of other critters can be culled.

If you need to kill an animal and eat it to survive then you are a hunter. If you do it for entertainment and try to say that you are some kind of rugged frontiersman...then you are just full of shit

There is a moral argument that if we are going to eat meat, we should be capable of going through the whole process from killing to skinning to butchering, instead of just going to Superquinn. Not sure I entirely agree, but I do see the point.

85603

i can own a gun.

i dont right now because as the jim jefferies bit goes 'sometimes we all get sad'.

2011

85603 wrote: »

i can own a gun.

Maybe, maybe not.
If you want to legally possess a firearm in Ireland expect to have to jump through a lot of hoops first due to some of the most restrictive gun laws in the world.

Feisar

2011 wrote: »

Maybe, maybe not.
If you want to legally possess a firearm in Ireland expect to have to jump through a lot of hoops first due to some of the most restrictive gun laws in the world.

I don't find our laws to bad in fairness. But then they are what I am used to.