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What can one do - surgery needed for Procedure not available in ireland??

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    Shazamm wrote: »
    They do in children yes, but one bone at a time.
    The surgeons with more experience can do it all together *USA

    Unfortunately many in the uk don't have the experience it seems

    They operate on children because their limbs have not yet fully grown/developed. What is the US guy offering that costs millions?

    And your legs are clearly not normal. How do the Irish docs explain it ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 241 ✭✭Shazamm


    Rodin wrote: »
    They operate on children because their limbs have not yet fully grown/developed. What is the US guy offering that costs millions?

    And your legs are clearly not normal. How do the Irish docs explain it ?

    They say its psychological.....

    He's the most experienced mechanic for this and really the man who can correct these types of things. There are others who use his playbook too but its maybe 2 others.
    In the videos above the new york surgeon - trained under paley and is another who treats it

    We're talking maybe 5 experts worldwide - with experience in the condition and treating it.

    The facebook group has only 300 or so member although the condition comes to light when people realise they aren't suitable for hip or knee replacement or when they fail.


    This video below is very interesting -
    This man needs knee replacement - but they would fail due to his body mechanics so firstly the mechanics need to be corrected



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    Honestly if what you're saying is true and no developed country treats this condition surgically apart from that one US clinic I would be very wary. Ilizarov frame (from the article) is hardly new or revolutionary. Are such doctors simply willing to take more risks or provide procedures that are unsustainable long term for a price?

    Research the availability of this treatment in EU public system as a litmus test. If it's provided, you have the right to avail of it even if it takes some residency manouvering. If it's not provided - consider why.


  • Registered Users Posts: 241 ✭✭Shazamm


    strandroad wrote: »
    Honestly if what you're saying is true and no developed country treats this condition surgically apart from that one US clinic I would be very wary. Ilizarov frame (from the article) is hardly new or revolutionary. Are such doctors simply willing to take more risks or provide procedures that are unsustainable long term for a price?

    Research the availibity of this treatment in EU public system as a litmus test. If it's provided, you have the right to avail of it even if it takes some residency manouvering. If it's not provided - consider why.



    Surgeons around the world can treat knock knees bowed legs etc.
    They can use the frame absolutely
    They can put the frame on a broken leg and things hopefully turn out fine.
    The frame is nothing new.
    It has been around since the 90s.
    A lot of times there needs to be another procedure due to displacement etc.

    This is where particular skills come into play.
    Many surgeons can use rods for trauma, frames, etc


    The skill is in the correction and the diagnosis.
    If they are unable to diagnose it - how can they treat it?

    They can't

    secondly - experience is huge

    Are such doctors simply willing to take more risks or provide procedures that are unsustainable long term for a price?


    The procedures are sustainable **
    Secondly do it once - do it right

    It is down to experience and most surgeons can't treat this.
    Its that simple

    No irish surgeon is aware of the condition, - a real life experience or many well known experienced surgeons with 1000s of procedures under their belt and professors also - I can start naming them.

    We'll be here all day if I gave the names .

    It is available in the eu - but they would do one bone at a time and wouldn't have experience or successful cases

    A belfast based surgeon in kingsbridge hospital - has done 1 case in his lifetime
    And he is operating a long long time.

    Confidence comes through repetition and there needs to be accuracy and experience and this is the issue


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭Curious_Case


    Shazamm wrote: »
    They say its psychological.....


    You could challenge their assertion that your condition is psychological by pointing out the fact that your right foot is perfectly parallel to your left foot so you're not turning your leg inwards unconsciously or otherwise - knee joint and elbow are more hinge like than a shoulder or hip, which are ball & socket.

    Easy to turn knee inwards at the hip but not without turning the lower leg and foot also.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 241 ✭✭Shazamm


    You could challenge their assertion that your condition is psychological by pointing out the fact that your right foot is perfectly parallel to your left foot so you're not turning your leg inwards unconsciously or otherwise - knee joint and elbow are more hinge like than a shoulder or hip, which are ball & socket.

    Easy to turn knee inwards at the hip but not without turning the lower leg and foot also.

    Yes great point

    They have refused to see me again
    public or private - this is 3 orthopaedic surgeons - royal college of surgeons -

    They will not listen or relate and the god complex is unbelievable.

    How can you complain or make your case when they label you and refuse to see you again?


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Shazamm wrote: »
    Yes great point



    How can you complain or make your case when they label you and refuse to see you again?

    If three different orthos have refused to see you again, I'd suggest the problem is you tbh


  • Registered Users Posts: 241 ✭✭Shazamm


    Stheno wrote: »
    If three different orthos have refused to see you again, I'd suggest the problem is you tbh

    Why would you say that?
    Pretty hurtful stuff.

    The orthos can't diagnose or treat the condition.
    So the problem is that. God complex.

    These people are human and don't know dtdpwtw unlike you
    Who does


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭Curious_Case


    Stheno wrote: »
    If three different orthos have refused to see you again, I'd suggest the problem is you tbh

    What did you think of the photo?
    Thigh alignment
    Knee alignment
    Lower Leg alignment
    Foot alignment


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Stheno wrote: »
    If three different orthos have refused to see you again, I'd suggest the problem is you tbh

    That is a truly appalling thing to say. Small wonder drs tend to have a God complex. They hate to be caught not knowing how to deal with a need.
    Been there . been treated like that many many times in my long life as my very real illness was not in their repertoire - so clearly it did not exist?

    And that is what this is. Outside their comfort zone.

    Look at the Xrays.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,089 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Stheno wrote: »
    If three different orthos have refused to see you again, I'd suggest the problem is you tbh

    They have a responsibility and a duty of care to their patients... a surgeon / consultant should not be of the ability to not want to see a patient...that should land them in front of a disciplinary tribunal...

    We are not THEIR patients, they are OUR medical professionals... as such they need to be ready and prepared to invest their time, experience, expertises and care to enable wellbeing / recovery ...

    The responsibility of consultants is to put the interest and health of their patients first. It’s a massive amount of trust and indeed privilege... to dedicate themselves to the good of their patients is paramount.

    Incidentally my consultant at Cappagh was by country miles the biggest incompetent excuse for a human I’ve ever encountered... if it wasn’t for me consulting with Dr Brian Murray in the Mater and him tearing him a new one and getting my treatment reinstated before I’d even arrived back at Cappagh that afternoon, I don’t know where I’d be... not running that’s for sure...


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Strumms wrote: »
    They have a responsibility and a duty of care to their patients... a surgeon / consultant should not be of the ability to not want to see a patient...that should land them in front of a disciplinary tribunal...

    We are not THEIR patients, they are OUR medical professionals... as such they need to be ready and prepared to invest their time, experience, expertises and care to enable wellbeing / recovery ...

    The responsibility of consultants is to put the interest and health of their patients first. It’s a massive amount of trust and indeed privilege... to dedicate themselves to the good of their patients is paramount.

    Incidentally my consultant at Cappagh was by country miles the biggest incompetent excuse for a human I’ve ever encountered... if it wasn’t for me consulting with Dr Brian Murray in the Mater and him tearing him a new one and getting my treatment reinstated before I’d even arrived back at Cappagh that afternoon, I don’t know where I’d be... not running that’s for sure...

    It is partly " our" fault for accepting shoddy treatment and not complaining intelligently through the proper channels.

    I have CFS/ME which a majority of medics here have literally never heard of or literally sneer at. Including consultants. There is associated a serious auto immune factor
    The only time I have had intelligent and realistic caring about this has been twice in A and E with non-Irish doctors

    OP I hope you can get to a place where you can be treated with respect and realism. And do make formal complaints if that applies? I have had an excellent outcome that way on a very serious and long winded problem.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,089 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Graces7 wrote: »
    It is partly " our" fault for accepting shoddy treatment and not complaining intelligently through the proper channels.

    I have CFS/ME which a majority of medics here have literally never heard of or literally sneer at. Including consultants. There is associated a serious auto immune factor
    The only time I have had intelligent and realistic caring about this has been twice in A and E with non-Irish doctors

    OP I hope you can get to a place where you can be treated with respect and realism. And do make formal complaints if that applies? I have had an excellent outcome that way on a very serious and long winded problem.

    It’s down to the Irish mentality partially of putting people with titles or letters in front or after their names up on pedestals.... which I cannot fûcking stand. An experienced consultant will have been enabled with on average over three million euros of public money in terms of training, wages and other expenses to engage with the public and provide for management of care, treatments, recovery and wellbeing... that’s over about 8 years...for that investment we need accountability, productivity and performance... it’s been lacking in my own experience. Big time. WE pay them but some of them go around like they are doing their patients a favor.... if anybody has had the misfortune to be under Prof. Kermit Sour up in a Cappagh, fûck me... an absolute ignoramus...

    Last clown I saw in the Mater a ‘physical rehabilitation specialist’ asked me.. “ so what do you think I can do to help you ? “ yes.. because I have a medical degree too ? So am I to tell YOU ? :rolleyes:

    When I suggested hydrotherapy he acted like I stumbled on tonight’s winning lotto numbers... he replied.. “ great idea, I’ll have to find out where it’s available, I’ll be in touch “

    Never heard back from him.., but my own research from contacts found that outpatient hydrotherapy is available in the Mater hospital, where this physical rehabilitation ‘specialist’ works himself... so he either lied or he doesn’t know his job... both are unacceptable..


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    [QUOTE=Strumms;116559440]It’s down to the Irish mentality partially of putting people with titles or letters in front or after their names up on pedestals.... which I cannot fûcking stand.

    Well I have a title AND letters after my name so they have met their match!


  • Registered Users Posts: 241 ✭✭Shazamm


    No one wants to admit they're wrong and admit mistakes, in the medical field unfortunately.

    There was a saying "Doctors differ.......patients ..........."

    hmm I can't remember the rest of the saying!


  • Registered Users Posts: 241 ✭✭Shazamm


    Strumms wrote: »
    It’s down to the Irish mentality partially of putting people with titles or letters in front or after their names up on pedestals.... which I cannot fûcking stand. An experienced consultant will have been enabled with on average over three million euros of public money in terms of training, wages and other expenses to engage with the public and provide for management of care, treatments, recovery and wellbeing... that’s over about 8 years...for that investment we need accountability, productivity and performance... it’s been lacking in my own experience. Big time. WE pay them but some of them go around like they are doing their patients a favor.... if anybody has had the misfortune to be under Prof. Kermit Sour up in a Cappagh, fûck me... an absolute ignoramus...

    Last clown I saw in the Mater a ‘physical rehabilitation specialist’ asked me.. “ so what do you think I can do to help you ? “ yes.. because I have a medical degree too ? So am I to tell YOU ? :rolleyes:

    When I suggested hydrotherapy he acted like I stumbled on tonight’s winning lotto numbers... he replied.. “ great idea, I’ll have to find out where it’s available, I’ll be in touch “

    Never heard back from him.., but my own research from contacts found that outpatient hydrotherapy is available in the Mater hospital, where this physical rehabilitation ‘specialist’ works himself... so he either lied or he doesn’t know his job... both are unacceptable..


    These things are most likely not an error or a lack of knowledge.

    There things seem to be very purposeful unfortunately and it's a shame.


    This country.....


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Shazamm wrote: »
    No one wants to admit they're wrong and admit mistakes, in the medical field unfortunately.

    There was a saying "Doctors differ.......patients ..........."

    hmm I can't remember the rest of the saying!

    I think " suffer" in the missing word!

    There are a few others... " Trust me - I;m a doctor" And " Doctors bury their mistakes."

    And of course they want to avoid being sued.


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