Solar PV battery options

DrPhilG

graememk wrote: »

We just use the solar man app

Where does the Solar Man take it from? Is that a Sofar system?

It's not the end of the world if I can't get the SOC to show up on the Solis app, but I definitely need to be able to get a live or close to live status from somewhere.

graememk

DrPhilG wrote: »

Where does the Solar Man take it from? Is that a Sofar system?

It's not the end of the world if I can't get the SOC to show up on the Solis app, but I definitely need to be able to get a live or close to live status from somewhere.

Solar man/solis app are the same server. - will show up like it usually does.

I can log into the solis website with the same login as the solarman .

DrPhilG

graememk wrote: »

Solar man/solis app are the same server. - will show up like it usually does.

I can log into the solis website with the same login as the solarman .

Gotcha. So that still leaves me in the same boat, the Solis app can get me a SOC, but only if the inverter is getting that info from the BMS.

Or am I confusing myself, can the inverter take the SOC directly from the battery?

championc

DrPhilG wrote: »

Gotcha. So that still leaves me in the same boat, the Solis app can get me a SOC, but only if the inverter is getting that info from the BMS.

Or am I confusing myself, can the inverter take the SOC directly from the battery?

The Solis will do it's OWN calculation, based on the battery voltage vs the battery parameters you setup. If fully charged was 53v and discharged was 51v, and you were standing with 52v, you would likely guess you had 50% remaining. That is what the Solis will do.

graememk

DrPhilG wrote: »

Gotcha. So that still leaves me in the same boat, the Solis app can get me a SOC, but only if the inverter is getting that info from the BMS.

Or am I confusing myself, can the inverter take the SOC directly from the battery?

If the inverter doesn't have a bms supplying a soc, it takes an estimate (based on settings) and works from that.

Eg on the Sofar, there is an empty voltage and full voltage,

championc

If anyone is buying a HEYO BMS, can they please contact me privately. I'm looking for someone to order an additional RS485 and a Canbus interface for me. It seems that you can maybe only order them with a new BMS purchase (which seems daft)

DrPhilG

graememk wrote: »

If the inverter doesn't have a bms supplying a soc, it takes an estimate (based on settings) and works from that.

Eg on the Sofar, there is an empty voltage and full voltage,

Ah gotcha. So the Solis app WILL still have a battery percentage showing, along with the charge/discharge rate at that time, but it will be more accurate if the BMS is communicating correctly via canbus?

championc

DrPhilG wrote: »

Ah gotcha. So the Solis app WILL still have a battery percentage showing, along with the charge/discharge rate at that time, but it will be more accurate if the BMS is communicating correctly via canbus?

Indeed, my understanding is that the inverter becomes a Dumb / Slave unit to the External BMS which then ultimately becomes the controller of charging and discharging.

Since you already have Pylontechs, surely you already see a SOC% in the app ? And surely too, if you disconnect the current Pylontech Canbus cable, it must surely disable the battery pack participation in the setup ?

DrPhilG

championc wrote: »

Indeed, my understanding is that the inverter becomes a Dumb / Slave unit to the External BMS which then ultimately becomes the controller of charging and discharging.

Gotcha.

championc wrote: »

Since you already have Pylontechs, surely you already see a SOC% in the app? And surely too, if you disconnect the current Pylontech Canbus cable, it must surely disable the battery pack participation in the setup ?

I do get a SOC, my mistake was that I thought that without canbus connection to the Daly BMS, the Solis would not know a SOC at all. Now I understand that it will, but it won't be as accurate as it would with a canbus connection.

championc wrote: »

if you disconnect the current Pylontech Canbus cable, it must surely disable the battery pack participation in the setup?

If I disconnect the Canbus cable from the PylonTech, won't the Solis be in the in the same position as if I connect a LiFePo4 pack without can connection? I.e. it will estimate the SOC rather than have a definite reading?

DrPhilG

This is the information coming from the Solis app on my system.

Main screen



Battery screen



BMS screen

DrPhilG

PS the guy I spoke to on Facebook is part of the official Solis support team, albeit in the Philippines!

He said that there had been discussion with Solis tech team about officially supporting the Daly, as it is very popular among DIY users out there. He is hoping that a future firmware update will support it.

slave1

Hey Phil, I have a Solis inverter but the App looks nothing like yours. I'm particularly interested in the first screen.
What's the exact name of the App?
Cheers

championc

DrPhilG wrote: »

If I disconnect the Canbus cable from the PylonTech, won't the Solis be in the in the same position as if I connect a LiFePo4 pack without can connection? I.e. it will estimate the SOC rather than have a definite reading?

Not at all. As I said, the inverter is somewhat dumb / slave in "Pylontech" mode, so knows nothing about anything.

So to run the LiFePO4's, it needs to be in Default Mode, and be setup to mimic Lead-Acid's but with tweaked settings for LiFePO4.

So disconnect the cable and it is likely to shut down charging and discharging

DrPhilG

slave1 wrote: »

Hey Phil, I have a Solis inverter but the App looks nothing like yours. I'm particularly interested in the first screen.
What's the exact name of the App?
Cheers

Solis Home by Ginlong.

championc

slave1 wrote: »

Hey Phil, I have a Solis inverter but the App looks nothing like yours. I'm particularly interested in the first screen.
What's the exact name of the App?
Cheers

Or Solarman from IGEN Tech. There are several, so the one you want us the blue icon on the white background

graememk

slave1 wrote: »

Hey Phil, I have a Solis inverter but the App looks nothing like yours. I'm particularly interested in the first screen.
What's the exact name of the App?
Cheers

If you don't have a hybrid inverter you Get something like this.

slave1

slave1 wrote: »

Hey Phil, I have a Solis inverter but the App looks nothing like yours. I'm particularly interested in the first screen.
What's the exact name of the App?
Cheers

DrPhilG wrote: »

Solis Home by Ginlong.

That’s the one I have

graememk wrote: »

If you don't have a hybrid inverter you Get something like this.

Yeah, that’s what I get, but I would like to see Grid and Consumption too. I see that data on the MyEnegri app but it’s not accurate, prefer info direct from inverter if possible...

graememk

slave1 wrote: »

That’s the one I have



Yeah, that’s what I get, but I would like to see Grid and Consumption too. I see that data on the MyEnegri app but it’s not accurate, prefer info direct from inverter if possible...

I know the inverter can use a CT for export limiting, it would definitely need one to have any chance of knowing the house load.

How come the myengri app is inaccurate?

Deagol

graememk wrote: »

I know the inverter can use a CT for export limiting, it would definitely need one to have any chance of knowing the house load.

How come the myengri app is inaccurate?

Wondering that too. I have two CT clamps: A Harvi for the Eddi and another for the inverter. Of the two, the Harvi gives much faster updates (about every 30 seconds) compared to the inverter app which is only updated every 5 or 6 minutes.

championc

slave1 wrote: »

That’s the one I have



Yeah, that’s what I get, but I would like to see Grid and Consumption too. I see that data on the MyEnegri app but it’s not accurate, prefer info direct from inverter if possible...

So long as you have the CT clamps connected to the inverter, then it's down to setting the correct Plant type in Inyep > Other Info

DrPhilG

Any downside to additional connection options on the bms? I presume not?

The Daly seems to offer all options, canbus, rs485, Bluetooth etc.



Obviously Can is the one I want, to hopefully be able to connect smoothly with the Solis. But no harm in adding the rest, very little additional cost.

championc

I finally got clarification from HEYO - you MUST get Canbus / RS485 at the time of order. Something is added at production. So it's not just an interface thing - it needs something internal too

DrPhilG

championc wrote: »

I finally got clarification from HEYO - you MUST get Canbus / RS485 at the time of order. Something is added at production. So it's not just an interface thing - it needs something internal too

That's a pain. Is there any market for them second hand? As in you could buy a replacement and then flog the old one?

DrPhilG

Just want to clarify before I put in the order.

The battery pack is:
2 x 16PCS CALB 3.2v 200Ah LiFePO4 Rechargeable Battery brand new 200AH 24V 48V 200AH Lithium iron Phosphate Packs which will be connected 16s2p making each cell 400a.

And the BMS spec should be:
* 16s
* 48v
* 100a
* Can
* Bluetooth
* RS485

DrPhilG

Really difficult to communicate with these guys without things getting lost in translation. Plus of course I'm very much an amateur.

The Heyo people tell me that I can purchase the Can connection cable at the same time as the BMS only, as already discovered by championc.

However this is a USB to CAN cable, which seems to be for connecting the BMS to a PC.

They say to connect to the inverter there needs to be a protocol match but they can't give me much information beyond that.

Deagol

DrPhilG wrote: »

Really difficult to communicate with these guys without things getting lost in translation. Plus of course I'm very much an amateur.

The Heyo people tell me that I can purchase the Can connection cable at the same time as the BMS only, as already discovered by championc.

However this is a USB to CAN cable, which seems to be for connecting the BMS to a PC.

They say to connect to the inverter there needs to be a protocol match but they can't give me much information beyond that.

That sounds strange. The protocol, say RS485, will handle the actual hardware communications, but the inverter needs to know which registers to read, what type of register (Read, Read/Write etc) each set is, what the type of data is in it (IEEE, Integer etc) and then it has to know what those registers mean actually mean.

Never used CANbus but assuming it's something like Fieldbus and then you would have similar as before - very least there needs to be definition to each AI block.

I'm not sure how it can work that the BMS can share information with the inverter unless the inverter has a 'translation' table built in for the BMS? Unless of course there is a standard table but with the relative infancy of this market I somehow doubt that exists?

DrPhilG

To be honest if the inverter is happy to estimate the state of charge based on the custom battery parameters entered, I'll live with that.

Figuring out a canbus connection with a Chinese dude is making me lose the will to live. One of the stores just said that to get a protocol match would cost $3k lol.

Deagol

DrPhilG wrote: »

To be honest if the inverter is happy to estimate the state of charge based on the custom battery parameters entered, I'll live with that.

Figuring out a canbus connection with a Chinese dude is making me lose the will to live. One of the stores just said that to get a protocol match would cost $3k lol.

I know your pain, some of my company tech is Chinese design and trying to get information from the the guys is excruciating at times due to language / cultural issues.

For the Solis, we have the Modbus register details, I wonder is it possible to match it to the BMS? Anyone any idea if the BMS Modbus map is available?

DrPhilG

Just spoke to someone online who said that they weren't able to connect their battery to the Solis at all. I think they must have a different version or model to me though.

They only had 2 approved choices for battery. My inverter offers 4 I think, and also a "user defined" option.

graememk

DrPhilG wrote: »

Just spoke to someone online who said that they weren't able to connect their battery to the Solis at all. I think they must have a different version or model to me though.

They only had 2 approved choices for battery. My inverter offers 4 I think, and also a "user defined" option.

Or an older firmware.

But as long as you have the user defined you can make it work.

graememk

Deagol wrote: »

I know your pain, some of my company tech is Chinese design and trying to get information from the the guys is excruciating at times due to language / cultural issues.

For the Solis, we have the Modbus register details, I wonder is it possible to match it to the BMS? Anyone any idea if the BMS Modbus map is available?

or even emulate the Pylontech bms! beyond my pay grade though

DrPhilG

graememk wrote: »

Or an older firmware.

But as long as you have the user defined you can make it work.

Hmm, finding a few people saying the same. That the Solis hybrid inverter won't work with LiFePo4.



(I think he means commS link)

Could always fall back to the other plan, swap the hybrid with a standard inverter and add a Sofar.

More cost and hassle though.

graememk

DrPhilG wrote: »

Hmm, finding a few people saying the same. That the Solis hybrid inverter won't work with LiFePo4.



(I think he means commS link)

Could always fall back to the other plan, swap the hybrid with a standard inverter and add a Sofar.

More cost and hassle though.

I thought the solis was able to use lead acid? They have no communication.

Deagol

graememk wrote: »

I thought the solis was able to use lead acid? They have no communication.

What do you mean 'no communication'? My Solis hybrid uses a Canbus link to talk to the Puredrive battery / BMS. It also has a user defined setting that would allow it (one assumes) to go without any link.

graememk

Deagol wrote: »

What do you mean 'no communication'? My Solis hybrid uses a Canbus link to talk to the Puredrive battery / BMS. It also has a user defined setting that would allow it (one assumes) to go without any link.

That's what I mean, no link.

I don't even have a full bms, just a balancer.using the inverter as the rest of the bms with the voltage limits

Deagol

graememk wrote: »

That's what I mean, no link.

I don't even have a full bms, just a balancer.using the inverter as the rest of the bms with the voltage limits

Gotcha!

championc

DrPhilG wrote: »

Hmm, finding a few people saying the same. That the Solis hybrid inverter won't work with LiFePO4's

I think you are listening to the wrong people. There is no link if Lead-Acid's were used, and the Default setting is specifically for Lead-Acid's.

Check as to what parameters can be configured in Default Mode, and especially what is the max charging voltage - at least 58.5v ?

The voltage ranges available will dictate whether you go 15s or 16s

If you had gone the Leaf Battery route, you would still have never connected that setups BMS to the Solis. You would be putting in voltage limits for various things, as you will do for the LiFePO4's

DrPhilG

Yup, I was listening to people who were trying to customise the LiFePo4 via "user defined".

Solis uk support are very hands off, they just said that unsupported batteries are just that unsupported. Wouldn't entertain any further questions at all.

Whereas my new buddy in the Philippines Solis support was much more helpful and said the same thing you guys just did.

DrPhilG

championc wrote: »

Check as to what parameters can be configured in Default Mode, and especially what is the max charging voltage - at least 58.5v ?

I'll go into the attic tonight and check it out, unless I can find a menu screen online today.

DrPhilG

So Mark the Solis guy says there are 2 options currently.

1 - connect as Lead Acid, no BMS connection. Inverter will estimate the SOC based on battery parameters. Charge rates etc are set on the inverter, BMS manages the various protections and monitoring.

2 - connect as PylonTech, connect CAN from BMS to inverter and it should (hopefully) connect properly. He says it only needs 3 pins on the RJ45.

However what benefits does option 2 actually bring? A more accurate SOC reading?

He also says that he will speak to Solis HQ again about adding Daly as an approved BMS. Although even if that does happen I'd imagine it would be a long time before it's implemented and available.

I'm inclined to go with Option 1 for now. Forget about canbus connection to the inverter, and just add them under the Lead Acid setting and configure from there.

I'm just waiting to see what the availability is for the Overkill BMS in that case. Out of stock currently, more due in this week but if there's a lot on backorder I might be out of luck.

A little more expensive but very highly rated. Plus English manuals and support. Cost about €155 compared to around €100 for the Daly.

unkel

We're all in the same predicament with our Sofar ME3000SP. Technically it should work with other Lithium options such as Pylontech (provided of course you use a 15S configuration like Pylontech) but none of us have successfully got any of them to work, so we all use the DEFAULT setting (as used for Lead Acid)

DrPhilG

Some pictures from the setup as it stands now.

[IMG][/img][IMG][/img]

DrPhilG

Some pictures from the setup as it stands now.





I did go into the battery timed charging menu page and it didn't seemed to run from 0-100a. I thought the max for this inverter was 62.5a?

graememk

DrPhilG wrote: »

Some pictures from the setup as it stands now.


I did go into the battery timed charging menu page and it didn't seemed to run from 0-100a. I thought the max for this inverter was 62.5a?

Time to dig out your manual! If it can go more, Great

Deagol

DrPhilG wrote: »

I did go into the battery timed charging menu page and it didn't seemed to run from 0-100a. I thought the max for this inverter was 62.5a?

From the datasheet on midsummer:

Max charge is 3000w and max discharge is 62.5amp. 62.5*~48v=3000watts.

But I've observed my own one charging at 3.2kw and discharging at 3.4kw - make of that what you will!

graememk

Deagol wrote: »

From the datasheet on midsummer:

Max charge is 3000w and max discharge is 62.5amp. 62.5*~48v=3000watts.

But I've observed my own one charging at 3.2kw and discharging at 3.4kw - make of that what you will!

Yep, Seen that, I have heard (from a solar installer) that there is new ones that can handle 5kw, but haven't seen any evidence of it yet.

Deagol

graememk wrote: »

Yep, Seen that, I have heard (from a solar installer) that there is new ones that can handle 5kw, but haven't seen any evidence of it yet.

I got fed that line too - but I've deliberately tried to discharge my battery by turning on high load (6.4kw) and it maxed out the battery at ~3.4kw. And I should mention that I had the very latest firmware installed by Solis themselves.

DrPhilG

No panic on it, 3kw would be plenty for me. Especially now as I only have 6kwp.

Another thing, am I right in saying that the PylonTech is a LiFePo4 battery?



The US2000 is a a lithium ion phosphate/LFP. Dunno why I'm surprised. I just assumed that the LiFePo4 was something very different to what I have.

Deagol

DrPhilG wrote: »

No panic on it, 3kw would be plenty for me. Especially now as I only have 6kwp.

Another thing, am I right in saying that the PylonTech is a LiFePo4 battery?


The US2000 is a a lithium ion phosphate/LFP. Dunno why I'm surprised. I just assumed that the LiFePo4 was something very different to what I have.

Lithium Ion Phosphate I think is the same as LiFePo4. There's no phosphate in a Lithium Ion (LiCoO2) battery so i think it's just a kind of lazy 'typo'.

graememk

Deagol wrote: »

I got fed that line too - but I've deliberately tried to discharge my battery by turning on high load (6.4kw) and it maxed out the battery at ~3.4kw. And I should mention that I had the very latest firmware installed by Solis themselves.

It was just general chat, as I wasnt getting a hybrid anyway.

DrPhilG wrote: »

No panic on it, 3kw would be plenty for me. Especially now as I only have 6kwp.

Another thing, am I right in saying that the PylonTech is a LiFePo4 battery?


The US2000 is a a lithium ion phosphate/LFP. Dunno why I'm surprised. I just assumed that the LiFePo4 was something very different to what I have.

They say lithium ion, but they are lithium iron

Yeah same chemistry, Pylontechs have 15 cells in them.

Li - L - Lithium
Fe - F- Iron
Po4 - P- Phosphate

Different terms for the same battery.