Solar PV battery options

DrPhilG

So where is cheaper to import a piece of kit like this?

My batteries have duty included as they will ship to Poland, clear customs and then send on to Ireland.

But if I buy the ZEVA BMS from Australia then I'll have to pay duty/fees.

I'm a mile from the Derry border so I can have it shipped to either depending on who's going to charge less.

graememk

DrPhilG wrote: »

So where is cheaper to import a piece of kit like this?

My batteries have duty included as they will ship to Poland, clear customs and then send on to Ireland.

But if I buy the ZEVA BMS from Australia then I'll have to pay duty/fees.

I'm a mile from the Derry border so I can have it shipped to either depending on who's going to charge less.

No real difference maybe 20% vat instead of 23 as NI is sorta still in the EU.

DrPhilG

graememk wrote: »

No real difference maybe 20% vat instead of 23 as NI is sorta still in the EU.

Cheers

I'll see if there's any difference in shipping cost then. They're charging $40 to Ireland.

The REC BMS ships from Slovenia so would be within the EU, but it's double the price.

DrPhilG

Next question, do I remember correctly that the PylonTech batteries are 15s? Which I presume would mean that if I'm emulating Pylontech batteries I'd need to do the same with my build?

Anyone know what the LG batteries are?

championc

DrPhilG wrote: »

Next question, do I remember correctly that the PylonTech batteries are 15s? Which I presume would mean that if I'm emulating Pylontech batteries I'd need to do the same with my build?

Anyone know what the LG batteries are?

My reading of the ZEVA is it can do anything from 8s to 16s. It seems it just talks the Pylontech language.

graememk

DrPhilG wrote: »

Next question, do I remember correctly that the PylonTech batteries are 15s? Which I presume would mean that if I'm emulating Pylontech batteries I'd need to do the same with my build?

Anyone know what the LG batteries are?

Shouldn't matter, all the information should be supplied by the bms itself, ie max charge voltage etc

DrPhilG

Yeah just waiting for more info from the ZEVA guy before deciding.

I can get the REC for €345 but that's the bare bones. By the time you add shunt, contractor, software etc you're up near €750.

The ZEVA is still looking like a lot cheaper even with import costs.

championc

DrPhilG wrote: »

I can get the REC ...... By the time you add shunt, contractor, software

Why would you want or need those bits ?

graememk

championc wrote: »

Why would you want or need those bits ?

Looking at them, none of the current passes though the bms, like the daly/heyo ,

they instead use an external relay (contactor) for emergency shutoff if the inverter isn't doing what it's told and a shunt to measure the power used (so it can calculate the SoC)

DrPhilG

Ordered the ZEVA. Shipping to the North as the duty is a few quid cheaper.

Just hope the batteries aren't stacked up in the Suez canal...

SD_DRACULA

What's the cheapest way to a 10kwh b0attery that you can simply plug and play into a Solis 5kwh hybrid inverter?
Also are these any good if anyone has them? https://www.puredrive-energy.co.uk/purestorage-dc-hybrid-battery/

idc

SD_DRACULA wrote: »

Also are these any good if anyone has them? https://www.puredrive-energy.co.uk/purestorage-dc-hybrid-battery/

Never used one but found website strange when they provide a way to calculate size of battery you need!

Question 1 - number of panels -- just the number nothing about kWp per panel (eg 14 * 450 is larger than 18 * 315 kWp)

Question 2 - number of bedrooms - how is that meaningful ? if its to work out how many people live and thus work out usage - i could have 1,2 or 3 kids per bedroom!

championc

SD_DRACULA wrote: »

What's the cheapest way to a 10kwh b0attery that you can simply plug and play into a Solis 5kwh hybrid inverter?

Ask DrPhil in about 6 weeks time when he has the AliExpress CALB 10kW for currently just over €1200

DrPhilG

championc wrote: »

Ask DrPhil in about 6 weeks time when he has the AliExpress CALB 10kW for currently just over €1200

Hopefully less, delivery estimate is April 17th to May 8th.

BMS being shipped on Tuesday, should take about 2 weeks.

Mind you he asked about "plug and play" options which these batteries aren't. Certainly doable (since I'm going to) but when you have to wire up the series, add a BMS, sort out the various fuses etc, they're certainly not plug and play in the way that the PylonTech are.

But 10kWh of PylonTech will cost you close to €4k.

SD_DRACULA

idc wrote: »

Never used one but found website strange when they provide a way to calculate size of battery you need!

Question 1 - number of panels -- just the number nothing about kWp per panel (eg 14 * 450 is larger than 18 * 315 kWp)

Question 2 - number of bedrooms - how is that meaningful ? if its to work out how many people live and thus work out usage - i could have 1,2 or 3 kids per bedroom!

This is just one that an installer quoted me as part of an install, apparently better than others as you can use the whole 5kw unlike others which you can't use last 20%?
Yeah been trying to find out things such as will it give you the full 5kw of at once if needed but no luck

championc

SD_DRACULA wrote: »

This is just one that an installer quoted me as part of an install, apparently better than others as you can use the whole 5kw unlike others which you can't use last 20%?
Yeah been trying to find out things such as will it give you the full 5kw of at once if needed but no luck

If it can give you the whole 5kW, it means that it's really nearer to a 6kW pack.

The 20% thing is more of a sensible limit (before causing severe degradation) rather than an actual limit

Deagol

championc wrote: »

If it can give you the whole 5kW, it means that it's really nearer to a 6kW pack.

The 20% thing is more of a sensible limit (before causing severe degradation) rather than an actual limit

Then surely he'd specify a 6kw battery? I think it's more likely the installer is either going into the settings and turning off the low limit... or he's BSing to make the sale?

SD_DRACULA

Deagol wrote: »

Then surely he'd specify a 6kw battery? I think it's more likely the installer is either going into the settings and turning off the low limit... or he's BSing to make the sale?

Yeah that's why I'm trying to find out if anyone here has that battery, maybe they know how it works

Deagol

SD_DRACULA wrote: »

Yeah that's why I'm trying to find out if anyone here has that battery, maybe they know how it works

I'd say ask him which battery it is on an official quote?

SD_DRACULA

This one https://www.puredrive-energy.co.uk/purestorage-dc-hybrid-battery/

Deagol

SD_DRACULA wrote: »

This one https://www.puredrive-energy.co.uk/purestorage-dc-hybrid-battery/

I think there's some confusion as to what the installer meant by using the whole 5kw. I don't think he was referring to the stored amount but the continuous power output.

For example; a 4.8kw pylontech that lot's of people use, have a continuous output of 50A max. The batteries are ~48v so 50Ax48v gives 2400watts (2.kw) continuous output from the battery alone. the puredrive on the other hand gives 100A continuous output so 100Ax48v give 4800watts (4.8kw) continuous output.

Why does this matter? Well, if you have solar panels working and say producing 1.5kw on an 'average' Irish day with a 5kw system and you turn on a couple of rings on your cooker - the overall load of your house might be something around 5.5kw.

With Puredrive battery - Solar 1.5kw + 4kw from battery and you're covered.
With Pylontech battery - Solar 1.5kw + 2.4kw from battery but you'd need to pull remainder from grid.

I think this is what the installer was referring to when he says you can use the whole 5kw from the battery. I have a puredrive 5kw and it's max discharge is set to 15% so I would expect same for yours. (So total useable capacity is 4.25kwh)

Hope that helps.

graememk

Deagol wrote: »

I think there's some confusion as to what the installer meant by using the whole 5kw. I don't think he was referring to the stored amount but the continuous power output.

For example; a 4.8kw pylontech that lot's of people use, have a continuous output of 50A max. The batteries are ~48v so 50Ax48v gives 2400watts (2.kw) continuous output from the battery alone. the puredrive on the other hand gives 100A continuous output so 100Ax48v give 4800watts (4.8kw) continuous output.

Why does this matter? Well, if you have solar panels working and say producing 1.5kw on an 'average' Irish day with a 5kw system and you turn on a couple of rings on your cooker - the overall load of your house might be something around 5.5kw.

With Puredrive battery - Solar 1.5kw + 4kw from battery and you're covered.
With Pylontech battery - Solar 1.5kw + 2.4kw from battery but you'd need to pull remainder from grid.

I think this is what the installer was referring to when he says you can use the whole 5kw from the battery. I have a puredrive 5kw and it's max discharge is set to 15% so I would expect same for yours. (So total useable capacity is 4.25kwh)

Hope that helps.

The inverter also needs to handle 100 amps too, so you could still be restricted on how much you can pull from the battery on the inverter side too. Its also 100 amps DC, around 48v.

SD_DRACULA

Deagol wrote: »

I think there's some confusion as to what the installer meant by using the whole 5kw. I don't think he was referring to the stored amount but the continuous power output.

For example; a 4.8kw pylontech that lot's of people use, have a continuous output of 50A max. The batteries are ~48v so 50Ax48v gives 2400watts (2.kw) continuous output from the battery alone. the puredrive on the other hand gives 100A continuous output so 100Ax48v give 4800watts (4.8kw) continuous output.

Why does this matter? Well, if you have solar panels working and say producing 1.5kw on an 'average' Irish day with a 5kw system and you turn on a couple of rings on your cooker - the overall load of your house might be something around 5.5kw.

With Puredrive battery - Solar 1.5kw + 4kw from battery and you're covered.
With Pylontech battery - Solar 1.5kw + 2.4kw from battery but you'd need to pull remainder from grid.

I think this is what the installer was referring to when he says you can use the whole 5kw from the battery. I have a puredrive 5kw and it's max discharge is set to 15% so I would expect same for yours. (So total useable capacity is 4.25kwh)

Hope that helps.

Yes that's the value I was looking for, will it push out the full 5kw (or close to) when needed i.e. cooker on or ev charger which will pull around 4000w when charging.

Deagol

graememk wrote: »

The inverter also needs to handle 100 amps too, so you could still be restricted on how much you can pull from the battery on the inverter side too. Its also 100 amps DC, around 48v.

Its a bit confusing - my Solis seems to stop at 3.4kw output and the installer is confused because he's been told the latest version can do the full 5kw. But he just swapped mine for the latest version and it still seems to stop at 3.4-3.5kw.

graememk

Deagol wrote: »

Its a bit confusing - my Solis seems to stop at 3.4kw output and the installer is confused because he's been told the latest version can do the full 5kw. But he just swapped mine for the latest version and it still seems to stop at 3.4-3.5kw.

Ive heard the same, but have no experience with it.. 3.4kw at say 52v is 65 amps, 52.8V is about 50% for a 16S battery.

The plyons are paralleled so if you had 4.8kwh(2x2.4) you could still pull 100 amps from it.

The Solax inverters can pull that sort of power, but they work from a high voltage battery.

SD_DRACULA

championc wrote: »

Ask DrPhil in about 6 weeks time when he has the AliExpress CALB 10kW for currently just over €1200

What's the name/model/URL for it and is it plug and play with Solis inverter?
Pretty sure I'm paying twice that for a 5kwh

Deagol

SD_DRACULA wrote: »

What's the name/model/URL for it and is it plug and play with Solis inverter?
Pretty sure I'm paying twice that for a 5kwh

Drphil is doing a DIY battery system using 'bare' individual cells he's buying directly from China. He will have to wire them together and stick diodes between them etc. Then he has a BMS coming from Australia (I think) that should look after the charge state and talk to his inverter.

It's a fantastic deal price wise but he's taking a big gamble in some ways. I'd not fancy his chances of getting warranty satisfaction if any of the cells go south etc so there's a pay off in terms of the risk he's taking.

Personally, I'd be too risk adverse to try it but fair dues to anyone who goes for it.

championc

SD_DRACULA wrote: »

What's the name/model/URL for it and is it plug and play with Solis inverter?
Pretty sure I'm paying twice that for a 5kwh

See my post #46 on this thread, which shows my installed setup, and links.

No absolute need for the battery pack to be integrated with the Solis. Me (and others) have the batteries connected as thought they are Lead-Acid's.

SD_DRACULA

Deagol wrote: »

Drphil is doing a DIY battery system using 'bare' individual cells he's buying directly from China. He will have to wire them together and stick diodes between them etc. Then he has a BMS coming from Australia (I think) that should look after the charge state and talk to his inverter.

It's a fantastic deal price wise but he's taking a big gamble in some ways. I'd not fancy his chances of getting warranty satisfaction if any of the cells go south etc so there's a pay off in terms of the risk he's taking.

Personally, I'd be too risk adverse to try it but fair dues to anyone who goes for it.

Ok fair enough in that case, thought it was more of a plug and play solution and I agree about the warranty/safety aspect of it.
If they can be thrown in a shed or not the main house wouldn't be too bad.

SD_DRACULA

Anyone here using the givenergy batteries? https://midsummer.ie/buy/giv-energy/giv-batt-5200
What are they like? Can they give the full 5.2kw continuously or you only get half that?