Would you ever consider moving to continental Europe? And if so where?

zweton

zweton wrote: »

Utrecht looks amazing, like a mini amsterdam without the tourists etc

Friend of mine lives there, it's very chill

Fandymo

Hoping to retire to either the south of Spain, if we're not in the midst of a new world war by then. Buy a cheap apartment, sit by the sea all day, nursing a few beers, watching the world pass by.

Moonbeam

I live in Norway , as long as I have kids in school there is no chance of moving back to Ireland.

arccosh

Moonbeam wrote: »

I live in Norway , as long as I have kids in school there is no chance of moving back to Ireland.

out of interest, why?

zweton

bubblypop wrote: »

Friend of mine lives there, it's very chill

did they buy there?

zweton

zweton wrote: »

did they buy there?

Yes, but many years ago.

Brian?

yer man! wrote: »

My colleagues from Utrecht in work are having an awful time finding something to buy there. One thing about housing here in general, it.is.expensive! New builds are pretty much no go as you have to win the opportunity to buy one in the developers lottery and fund it up front. A typical 100m2 terraced house would set you back at least 400k in an okay area (In the Randstad). I'm here two years now and strongly considering going back to Ireland as it's bleak here for buyers.

Now if you plan to rent, then that's fine, cheaper than Dublin and there's far more to offer here I would say.

Have you looked at how hard it is to buy in Dublin? One of the things that will stop me going home is how hard buying a house will be. I own a house in Eindhoven, got a mortgage when I lived here 6 months. 100% mortgage at 1.3%.

Before I moved here in 2018 I had approval for an 80% mortgage at 4.2%.

I bought a 150 sq m house 10 mins from Eindhoven centre, in a nice area for 362k. You won't get a thing in Dublin for that in a decent area.

On top of that, I am not getting a mortgage for at least 2 years if I change employer when I go home.

Brian?

zweton wrote: »

Yeah i heard its a nightmare from someone i know over there, worse than Ireland even.

Possibly for first time buyers. Definitely not for anyone else. So much easier to buy here.

zweton

Brian? wrote: »

Possibly for first time buyers. Definitely not for anyone else. So much easier to buy here.

Bidding wars like here too?

Brian?

zweton wrote: »

Bidding wars like here too?

Yeah. Even if you pay the same price for a house here, which is possible in the Randstadt, you will still have a much easier time doing it.

In Ireland the bank wanted piles of pay slips, bank statements, proof of savings etc.

Here I applied in 10 minutes. Sent in an employer statement. After I'd already gone sale agreed on a house. My mortgage advisor couldn't believe I was concerned I wouldn't get mortgage approval. No solicitor needed, the estate agent and notary did everything. I can't remember the cost, but i could write it off against tax anyway, so it didn't matter.

Oh and I was 6 months into a 1 year contract at the time. Got made permanent 6 months later.

It's almost like they want it to be easy to buy a house......

yer man!

Brian? wrote: »

Have you looked at how hard it is to buy in Dublin? One of the things that will stop me going home is how hard buying a house will be. I own a house in Eindhoven, got a mortgage when I lived here 6 months. 100% mortgage at 1.3%.

Before I moved here in 2018 I had approval for an 80% mortgage at 4.2%.

I bought a 150 sq m house 10 mins from Eindhoven centre, in a nice area for 362k. You won't get a thing in Dublin for that in a decent area.

On top of that, I am not getting a mortgage for at least 2 years if I change employer when I go home.

I don't want or ever plan to live in Dublin though. I live in Leiden currently and it's just insane. Bidding wars are resulting in an average overbid of 20% above asking on anything that's not an apartment. This is in all the small towns surrounding the area too. My bank told me to just use my own cash to get the property over what it's worth and they will cover the market value cost, crazy stuff.

If you have a permanent contract in Ireland you can draw down once probation is over, you cna be approved in principal at the first paycheck, i have confirmed this with AIB.

Ireland gets a lot of abuse on boards but to be fair the country is supporting FTB much better than NL.

Brian?

yer man! wrote: »

I don't want or ever plan to live in Dublin though. I live in Leiden currently and it's just insane. Bidding wars are resulting in an average overbid of 20% above asking on anything that's not an apartment. This is in all the small towns surrounding the area too. My bank told me to just use my own cash to get the property over what it's worth and they will cover the market value cost, crazy stuff.

If you have a permanent contract in Ireland you can draw down once probation is over, you cna be approved in principal at the first paycheck, i have confirmed this with AIB.

Ireland gets a lot of abuse on boards but to be fair the country is supporting FTB much better than NL.

As I said earlier, the only people it's easier to buy in Ireland for is first time buyers.

I didn't know you could be approved that quickly either, it wasn't that way when I left.

20% over asking is nothing new in an Irish bidding war. When I was bidding on houses in 2018, in Celbridge, they'd go up 20% in a couple of hours. I was bidding on houses advertised at 350-400. I had to adjust down to bidding on houses advertised at 300 because they would go for at least 70-80k over asking every time.

josip

Sounds like the banks in NL can easily repossess a property if the buyer defaults?
Unlike here, which is what makes it a fraught market for lenders.

Brian?

josip wrote: »

Sounds like the banks in NL can easily repossess a property if the buyer defaults?
Unlike here, which is what makes it a fraught market for lenders.

I don't think so.

Ubbquittious

yer man! wrote: »

NL definitely has a ton of positives, where I live I'm 30 minutes cycle to the beach, 10 minute walk to an ice rink, and 5 minutes to a well connected railway station. So the quality of life is pretty good here! The only thing that gets me is the space, since I work from home most of the time now it's a problem. In an apartment working from the kitchen table and no outdoor space is grating...

I used to live in Leiden when I was a wee boy and those distances sound familiar. I can't remember how far it was to the ice rink but it was probably the same one you went to

Used to live in this apartment building: https://www.funda.nl/koop/verkocht/leiden/appartement-87100555-maartje-offerspad-21/

Don't know how far that is from where you are. I'd like to go back for a weekend at some stage after the covid, have a Vietnamese spring roll, sit under a parasol on a roasting summer's day with a beer. Go to the Wassenaarseslag and have an icecream and 'patatje speciaal'. But for the rest of the year I'd much rather be in a stone cottage with a big shed on a west Cork island with a strong gale blowing.

yer man!

Ubbquittious wrote: »

I used to live in Leiden when I was a wee boy and those distances sound familiar. I can't remember how far it was to the ice rink but it was probably the same one you went to

Used to live in this apartment building: https://www.funda.nl/koop/verkocht/leiden/appartement-87100555-maartje-offerspad-21/

Don't know how far that is from where you are. I'd like to go back for a weekend at some stage after the covid, have a Vietnamese spring roll, sit under a parasol on a roasting summer's day with a beer. Go to the Wassenaarseslag and have an icecream and 'patatje speciaal'. But for the rest of the year I'd much rather be in a stone cottage with a big shed on a west Cork island with a strong gale blowing.

Ah you lived near De Vink train station, nice area! I'm renting near Leiden Centraal Station at the moment, got very lucky with the place here.

The summers are honestly excellent as there's just so much to do outside and the city in general is fantastic, borrel en biertjes along the Nieuwe Rijn canal just people watching for the afternoon is one of my favourite things to do.

As others have said here, there's a brilliant quality of life to be had here. They're just having that housing problem... which is a pretty big one so it's something to just be very aware of.

Sleepy

zweton wrote: »

How did you find Pamplona and the Basque region? Plenty going on? Damn im really considering it.

I've only holidayed there a couple of times so not the most accurate appraisal of an area I'm sure but what I've seen there (Pamplona, San Sebastian/Donostia, Biaritz, Anglet, Bayonne and St Jean de Luz) I liked. The suburbs and outlying areas of towns/cities can be a little bit brutally industrial but not really any worse than the area around the Red Cow here for example. The villages and towns are typically quite pretty though and the people are wonderfully friendly and love a party! I can certainly see where the separatist movement comes from, I found those living in the French parts of the Basque region to be culturally more similar to their fellow Basque than to other French people I've met. As I said though, my experience of the area is from a couple of booze filled holidays rather than living and working there so it's extremely limited!

Aglomerado wrote: »

I was in Pamplona once, walking through on the Camino, on a morning of the Encierro! Place was hopping at 8am! I'd like to see more of it.
I like northern Spain in general though. I like the landscape, people, food and of course wine. Outside of the larger cities there are lots of pretty towns. Belorado, Santo Domingo de la Calzada, Castrojeriz and Carrion de los Condes are some that come to mind instantly (all on the French Camino).

Running the Encierro was the reason for my trip to Pamplona. It had been on my bucket list since my uncle first told me about it as a child and the San Fermin Festival was definitely one of the wildest holidays of my life!

The adrenalin rush from running with the bulls stays with you for hours afterwards and, the morning we did it, we were well oiled by 11am, dancing through the streets with a group of locals who'd formed an impromptu brass band! We had limited Spanish, they had limited English but it didn't stop us partying together for half the day, swapping beers for Kalimotxo (red wine and coke, usually served in a melon) and Patxaran. We learned the meaning of the phrase "borracho como una cuba" that day!

We managed 3 nights of the festival before decamping to Donostia for a few days to recover. Lovely drive down and the old town in San Sebastian is beautiful. Amazing tapas and good surfing. You'd need money to retire to it though (any town with 9 michelin star restaurants is going to be expensive in fairness!).

Barna77

Sleepy wrote: »

We learned the meaning of the phrase "borracho como una cuba" that day!

ghostfacekilla

I’ve lived in Prague and currently live in Stockholm. Two great cities, both with pros and cons as everywhere has. I think I’d take Holland as first choice due to it’s close driving proximity to so many different countries and the level of english as a second language. I fled Ireland because of the rain and it rains a lot in Holland. The summers are great in Sweden, but the people all over the nordics are as much fun as finding out you’ve got a terminal illness. Berlin would be a decent option but the germans and swiss take rules so seriously that it stops being funny. We grew up on leeway. I’d greatly consider France or Italy but the general level of english spoken is low and my motivation to learn either of those languages are nil.
So, Holland. Amsterdam and not for the weed or the weather. Retirement, Ideally between Florida and Palma, Majorca if someone teaches me how to rob banks.

McGiver

ghostfacekilla wrote:

I’ve lived in Prague and currently live in Stockholm. Two great cities, both with pros and cons as everywhere has. I think I’d take Holland as first choice due to it’s close driving proximity to so many different countries and the level of english as a second language. I fled Ireland because of the rain and it rains a lot in Holland. The summers are great in Sweden, but the people all over the nordics are as much fun as finding out you’ve got a terminal illness. Berlin would be a decent option but the germans and swiss take rules so seriously that it stops being funny. We grew up on leeway. I’d greatly consider France or Italy but the general level of english spoken is low and my motivation to learn either of those languages are nil. So, Holland. Amsterdam and not for the weed or the weather. Retirement, Ideally between Florida and Palma, Majorca if someone teaches me how to rob banks.

And Prague?

ghostfacekilla

McGiver wrote: »

And Prague?

I always prefer to live somewhere with coastline close by. Czech Republic doesn't expose you to a lot of seascape. Great city, stunning and I enjoy their meat and cheese heavy cuisine. Great level of spoken english. Not a bad option if you can have a decent income as cost of living is cheap and if you can make friends with the locals or with fellow immigrants as they aren't as warm to strangers as the Irish can be.

its_steve116

Probably Germany.

murpho999

irelandrover wrote: »

I bought a house a few years ago in eindhoven just before the market went a bit crazy. Its a mid terrace house with 120m^2 floorspace and a 100m^2 garden. Within 2 minutes of my house there are about 5 playgrounds for my child that are maintained very well, i'm a 7 minute cycle to the centre, a 12 minute cycle to my work

The lifestyle is a lot better. I get 41 days holidays a year, get paid for 13 months in the year, cycle everywhere. Family life clearly comes first here rather than work, Eindhoven is small so all my friends are a max 20 minute cycle. Lots of pubs and restaurants around and just about any sport i could care to play is catered for. Loads of parks and with a 15 minute cycle we are out in nature.

None of my neighbours have every called the cops on my house parties. Warn your neighbours in advance and if they have a problem they come talk to you. You might see that as restrictive but i see it as completely fair.

A lot of positive stuff on this thread about life in NL.

I lived there for 7 years and whilst it's hard to argue about things like transport and infrastructure I just can't accept that the Dutch way of life is better.

I wonder if people who are positive live an ex pat life or a Dutch way of life as there is a difference.

I was married to a Dutch person and so got to see how they live and I found it frustrating.
Found the Dutch to be friendly and obliging but to be as dull as dishwater. No spontaneity about them like Irish people. Everything planned to a tee.
Ask a Dutch colleague at 3 o'clock on a Friday to go for pint after work and I'd be 99% certain they can't do it.
If you do get them out they don't just relax and enjoy themselves and will leave after an hour. They probably won't have bought a round of drink either.

Go to a Dutch birthday party and sit in a circle of people talking about holidays whilst eating cake and drinking coffee is a cultural shock I've never gotten over. No mingling, music or craic.

As for lifestyle yes it's easy to get a bus or train from A to B but is that everything? Cycling is great too.
But the other stuff you say? Playgrounds? Lots of them here in Ireland now and well maintained too.
Parks? Ireland is full of them.
As for being out in nature? Really, comparing what is nature in Netherlands to Ireland is just crazy. I live in Co Wicklow, and Cliff walk in Bray, or hike Sugarloaf which is all very close would beat any "nature" on offer in NL and then go further afield to Wicklow mountains and it's on another level to Dutch canals and polders that they call nature there.

Also, what got to me there was how most places were the same. The country is practically one of two colours, houses are generally all red or yellow brick and interiors are all white. The uniformity of the country and lack of space really got to me. Even where I lived, I had a house and you where only allowed to paint your hall door a particular green colour.

I'm back in Ireland 15 years now and my time away made me appreciate Ireland. It's not perfect but the nature is beautiful, people are more relaxed and lifestyle is freer. I found Dutch people just seemed to have a "group think" mentality in that they all live the same way that's just not done here. They all have the same breakfast and lunch everyday for example (Bread and cheese).

Also find food and its quality better than what I was getting in Netherlands too.

irelandrover

murpho999 wrote: »

A lot of positive stuff on this thread about life in NL.

I lived there for 7 years and whilst it's hard to argue about things like transport and infrastructure I just can't accept that the Dutch way of life is better.

I wonder if people who are positive live an ex pat life or a Dutch way of life as there is a difference.

I was married to a Dutch person and so got to see how they live and I found it frustrating.
Found the Dutch to be friendly and obliging but to be as dull as dishwater. No spontaneity about them like Irish people. Everything planned to a tee.
Ask a Dutch colleague at 3 o'clock on a Friday to go for pint after work and I'd be 99% certain they can't do it.
If you do get them out they don't just relax and enjoy themselves and will leave after an hour. They probably won't have bought a round of drink either.

Go to a Dutch birthday party and sit in a circle of people talking about holidays whilst eating cake and drinking coffee is a cultural shock I've never gotten over. No mingling, music or craic.

As for lifestyle yes it's easy to get a bus or train from A to B but is that everything? Cycling is great too.
But the other stuff you say? Playgrounds? Lots of them here in Ireland now and well maintained too.
Parks? Ireland is full of them.
As for being out in nature? Really, comparing what is nature in Netherlands to Ireland is just crazy. I live in Co Wicklow, and Cliff walk in Bray, or hike Sugarloaf which is all very close would beat any "nature" on offer in NL and then go further afield to Wicklow mountains and it's on another level to Dutch canals and polders that they call nature there.

Also, what got to me there was how most places were the same. The country is practically one of two colours, houses are generally all red or yellow brick and interiors are all white. The uniformity of the country and lack of space really got to me. Even where I lived, I had a house and you where only allowed to paint your hall door a particular green colour.

I'm back in Ireland 15 years now and my time away made me appreciate Ireland. It's not perfect but the nature is beautiful, people are more relaxed and lifestyle is freer. I found Dutch people just seemed to have a "group think" mentality in that they all live the same way that's just not done here. They all have the same breakfast and lunch everyday for example (Bread and cheese).

Also find food and its quality better than what I was getting in Netherlands too.

My wife is Dutch but we live an expat life in that most of our friends are international. We would have very few Dutch friends. However I've gone out for beers after work quite a lot with Dutch colleague without planning it in advance.

The work life balance here is far better. Of all my friends in Ireland no one works part time after having children. They all still work 5 days a week, work over 40 hours and have long enough commutes. Here only 1 person I know still works full time. Everyone else dropped to a 4 day week. And we all have a maximum 20 minute cycle to work.

I've stated before that I really struggled in other cities in the Netherlands. It was as you described above, no spontaneity among the Dutch. They all ate the same.

I wouldn't recommend to someone to move to the Netherlands but I do recommend to people to move to Eindhoven. For me it's the best of both worlds. All the benefits of the Dutch organisation, work life balance, but since its so international there is a great choice of foods and restaurants. People are also more open than the Dutch and it rubs off on the Dutch as well. One of the things that annoys me elsewhere is the awful service in bars and restaurants. But due to the fact that here a lot of restaurants are owned by foreigners, or teh waiters are foreign students the service in Eindhoven is good. And that has rubbed off on other restaurants as now people aren't as accepting of bad service.

Maybe where you live there are well maintained playgrounds but that definitely wasn't the case where I lived. As an example here I reported a broken step on a ladder via the city app. It was fixed 18 hours later.

Nature here doesn't compare with Ireland and I didn't claim it did. Dutch nature is pretty boring except for the few national nature reserves. But on the other side within an hour I am in German forests or in the ardennes.

And you couldn't pay me enough to attend another Dutch circle party.

Brian?

murpho999 wrote: »

A lot of positive stuff on this thread about life in NL.

I lived there for 7 years and whilst it's hard to argue about things like transport and infrastructure I just can't accept that the Dutch way of life is better.

I wonder if people who are positive live an ex pat life or a Dutch way of life as there is a difference.

I was married to a Dutch person and so got to see how they live and I found it frustrating.
Found the Dutch to be friendly and obliging but to be as dull as dishwater. No spontaneity about them like Irish people. Everything planned to a tee.
Ask a Dutch colleague at 3 o'clock on a Friday to go for pint after work and I'd be 99% certain they can't do it.
If you do get them out they don't just relax and enjoy themselves and will leave after an hour. They probably won't have bought a round of drink either.

Go to a Dutch birthday party and sit in a circle of people talking about holidays whilst eating cake and drinking coffee is a cultural shock I've never gotten over. No mingling, music or craic.

As for lifestyle yes it's easy to get a bus or train from A to B but is that everything? Cycling is great too.
But the other stuff you say? Playgrounds? Lots of them here in Ireland now and well maintained too.
Parks? Ireland is full of them.
As for being out in nature? Really, comparing what is nature in Netherlands to Ireland is just crazy. I live in Co Wicklow, and Cliff walk in Bray, or hike Sugarloaf which is all very close would beat any "nature" on offer in NL and then go further afield to Wicklow mountains and it's on another level to Dutch canals and polders that they call nature there.

Also, what got to me there was how most places were the same. The country is practically one of two colours, houses are generally all red or yellow brick and interiors are all white. The uniformity of the country and lack of space really got to me. Even where I lived, I had a house and you where only allowed to paint your hall door a particular green colour.

I'm back in Ireland 15 years now and my time away made me appreciate Ireland. It's not perfect but the nature is beautiful, people are more relaxed and lifestyle is freer. I found Dutch people just seemed to have a "group think" mentality in that they all live the same way that's just not done here. They all have the same breakfast and lunch everyday for example (Bread and cheese).

Also find food and its quality better than what I was getting in Netherlands too.

It's funny, I have one Dutch friend and she's great craic. All of my other friends are immigrants ( I hate the term expats), so that isn't a problem. The nature is definitely better in Ireland, as is the food.

But the standard of living is much more comfortable here .

20Wheel

Budapest looks nice.

That whole south east, ex-bloc part of europe seems to have some promise to it.
I hope that they'll grow into their potential.

yer man!

irelandrover wrote: »

My wife is Dutch but we live an expat life in that most of our friends are international. We would have very few Dutch friends. However I've gone out for beers after work quite a lot with Dutch colleague without planning it in advance.

The work life balance here is far better. Of all my friends in Ireland no one works part time after having children. They all still work 5 days a week, work over 40 hours and have long enough commutes. Here only 1 person I know still works full time. Everyone else dropped to a 4 day week. And we all have a maximum 20 minute cycle to work.

I've stated before that I really struggled in other cities in the Netherlands. It was as you described above, no spontaneity among the Dutch. They all ate the same.

I wouldn't recommend to someone to move to the Netherlands but I do recommend to people to move to Eindhoven. For me it's the best of both worlds. All the benefits of the Dutch organisation, work life balance, but since its so international there is a great choice of foods and restaurants. People are also more open than the Dutch and it rubs off on the Dutch as well. One of the things that annoys me elsewhere is the awful service in bars and restaurants. But due to the fact that here a lot of restaurants are owned by foreigners, or teh waiters are foreign students the service in Eindhoven is good. And that has rubbed off on other restaurants as now people aren't as accepting of bad service.

Maybe where you live there are well maintained playgrounds but that definitely wasn't the case where I lived. As an example here I reported a broken step on a ladder via the city app. It was fixed 18 hours later.

Nature here doesn't compare with Ireland and I didn't claim it did. Dutch nature is pretty boring except for the few national nature reserves. But on the other side within an hour I am in German forests or in the ardennes.

And you couldn't pay me enough to attend another Dutch circle party.

I agree on your analysis of Eindhoven, i really liked the city. When i mentioned i went there for the weekend to my Dutch colleagues they just responded with "why did you go there? The city is so ugly" haha i thought it was great craic, brilliant bars and restaurants and i dunno, not pretentious but still well maintained which i liked.

I work for an american company here at the moment and i work far more than i ever did in Ireland, but i think my company is not normal. Money is great so i put up with it. The Dutch i have noticed do not tolerate this and generally leave after a year. I have also noticed that they tend to not go out of their way to help you out too much. I was at a conference last year about an hour away and asked my coworker for a lift home or even to just a train station so i could go home as the conference centre was out in the sticks in some country house. He lived quite close to my house but refused, offered to drop me off on the main road near the conference centre so i could get the bus to the train station.

I've definitely become more direct in work though because of the culture which is good, i will call them out if i suspect them of passing work to me that they should be doing, will flat out tell them "Bram, I'm not doing that report, you will do it".

On the local council services thing, i do have to say, they maintain their cities like nothing else, they're always out landscaping or fixing stuff. My experience in Ireland is that some councils can be a bit reactive rather than proactive but anytime I have contacted my council in Ireland about overgrown bushes or waste issues it was sorted promptly, so i can't fault them. Could be a bit of bystander effect going on in Ireland with nobody wanting to contact the council to sort stuff out.

Ubbquittious

yer man! wrote: »

I agree on your analysis of Eindhoven, i really liked the city. When i mentioned i went there for the weekend to my Dutch colleagues they just responded with "why did you go there? The city is so ugly" haha i thought it was great craic, brilliant bars and restaurants and i dunno, not pretentious but still well maintained which i liked.

I work for an american company here at the moment and i work far more than i ever did in Ireland, but i think my company is not normal. Money is great so i put up with it. The Dutch i have noticed do not tolerate this and generally leave after a year. I have also noticed that they tend to not go out of their way to help you out too much. I was at a conference last year about an hour away and asked my coworker for a lift home or even to just a train station so i could go home as the conference centre was out in the sticks in some country house. He lived quite close to my house but refused, offered to drop me off on the main road near the conference centre so i could get the bus to the train station.

I've definitely become more direct in work though because of the culture which is good, i will call them out if i suspect them of passing work to me that they should be doing, will flat out tell them "Bram, I'm not doing that report, you will do it".

On the local council services thing, i do have to say, they maintain their cities like nothing else, they're always out landscaping or fixing stuff. My experience in Ireland is that some councils can be a bit reactive rather than proactive but anytime I have contacted my council in Ireland about overgrown bushes or waste issues it was sorted promptly, so i can't fault them. Could be a bit of bystander effect going on in Ireland with nobody wanting to contact the council to sort stuff out.

Everything is kind of curated or "laid on" for you over there, a kind of "you've had your fun now pay up and go back to your tiny apartment" type affair. No wilderness, no mountains, wild camping is illegal there. Don't forget the country would go underwater very quickly if they weren't constantly maintaining it.



When I left college I got a good few phonecalls with fellas offering me jobs in Eindhoven but I'm glad I never went. Got the feeling that it was drudge work for a semiconductor company as they were being vague about it and the rent/tax over there meant I'd come home with feck all despite getting what looked like a decent wage.


Don't think I'd ever work there but wouldn't mind sitting on the camp site in Ermelo with a glass of sangria, bitterballen, cheap cans of Pils and talking sh1te on a CB radio (known as a 27mc Bakkie over there). Most of my relatives over there are dead now or I've lost touch which is a shame.



Have never found any of my crowd to be unhelpful but I think they're just slower to befriend colleagues than in Ireland. Some people are just a bit weird or unfriendly like anywhere. I met plenty of those in Ireland as well especially in Dublin.

Ubbquittious

Jim2007

Found the Dutch to be friendly and obliging but to be as dull as dishwater. No spontaneity about them like Irish people. Everything planned to a tee.

Your spontaneity is just being disorganized and expecting everyone one else to accommodate you.. why should they drop what ever they were intending to do to entertain you? especially when you are the outsider?

For most of Central Europe, especially the Germanic countries, people have work colleagues and friends and the two don’t usually overlap. Friends are the people you socialize with, not work colleagues, that is just how it is.

I’m retired now but I worked 30 years in Switzerland and don’t have any contracts with former work colleagues, it’s just how it is. I probably have say 10 good Swiss friends that I’m in constant contact with and say another 50 in my outer circle. They are people I have met through the years from when my kids were in school, community activities, clubs and so on. I can’t say I know anyone with a lot of work friends.