Dead battery.

Richard tea

Bike died this morning on the way to work. Getting towed back at the moment. I'm 99% sure it's the battery. Haven't used the bike since November and rarely started it. Serves me right. So can the battery be recovered with a charger or is it goosed now.

galwaytt

Depends on how low it got. If it went completely flat and was like that a while, I'd wager it's goosed.

But if it started o.k. this morning, and died literally 'on your way to work' I'm not sure the battery is the issue. It may be weak, but or something else at play.

Start with the battery though.

septictank

Sounds more like a blown fuse.

MaryKon

I'd say your main fuse blew. Happened to me with an sv650 few years back in the middle of M1, bike suddenly went completely dark. Replace the fuse and then check your reg/rec and alternator. Good luck!

Henry Ford III

If the bike was running the battery should be charging so it shouldn't just give up in the middle of a spin.

Richard tea

It's charging at the moment. The charger indicated 25% charged. Currently on 50% now. If the fuse was gone would the dash still light up when I switch the ignition on? I have checked all fused visually and all look fine.

goblin59

Richard tea wrote: »

It's charging at the moment. The charger indicated 25% charged. Currently on 50% now. If the fuse was gone would the dash still light up when I switch the ignition on? I have checked all fused visually and all look fine.

What bike have you got?
There could be a fuse that goes between the power and CDI that would be seperate to the dash lights.

If your rectifier / alternator circuit isn't right then you could be facing an issue there too, where it isn't able to generate enough power to keep the battery charged and make a spark.

Richard tea

goblin59 wrote: »

What bike have you got?
There could be a fuse that goes between the power and CDI that would be seperate to the dash lights.

If your rectifier / alternator circuit isn't right then you could be facing an issue there too, where it isn't able to generate enough power to keep the battery charged and make a spark.

Honda nc750x 2014. I have experience testing reg/rec issues so I'll have a look when the battery charges (if it does).

goblin59

Richard tea wrote: »

Honda nc750x 2014. I have experience testing reg/rec issues so I'll have a look when the battery charges (if it does).

Do they use self resetting relays instead of fuses?
Would definitely isolate that from being the problem.

as far as I know, even if the battery is dead some bikes can run off the power from the Reg/rec once you get the bump started.

No idea about the NC750x
I know some of the older bikes will start with a downhill roll in 3rd gear

Richard tea

If it doesn't start when I fit the battery it's obviously something else. If I get it running I'll check the reg/rec readings. I had washed the bike on the weekend so I'll check for corrosion in the starter switch etc.

zubair

In my experience with Honda, its the RR or stator.

Richard tea

zubair wrote: »

In my experience with Honda, its the RR or stator.

Correct. Done a quick check with the multimeter yesterday evening. I've experience from my old cb400 so should be straight forward

Fabio

Low batteries can cause strange things to happen, especially on more electronically advanced machines like bikes of the last 10 or 15 years. You could get away with weaker batteries on carbed bikes because your fueling system isn't dependent on electrics there. Different with fuel injection.

Optimate chargers seem to have a good record with bringing batteries back to life and desulphating them and all of that stuff but, if I were you, for peace of mind I'd buy a new battery. It is possible that your battery, which I assume hasn't had a charge in 5 months, just won't hold charge so the bike may be trying but it's a dud piece in your charging circuit now.

Check your fuses, check your earth/ground points on the bike (usually to the chassis, just make sure they're clean and tight), check any connections in the charging system (those white plastic three-pin connectors joining the three yellow wires from the stator to the charging system can end up melting on some late 90s Hondas). Ultimately, I reckon it's the battery though, Honda charging systems used to be fragile but that hasn't been the case for years now.

maestroamado

I assume the said battery started the bike in the first place so for me the battery be fine.
Visual check unreliable for me, do you have a meter?

H_Lime

Speaking generally on the subject its worthwhile fitting a voltmeter to any bike.
If numbers mean nothing to you then this is pretty foolproof and cheap

http://sparkbright.co.uk/battery-voltage-monitors.php

I use an argus battery bug which shows real-time voltage and % cca loss from start to start graphically. It sounds an audible bleep when the battery has a couple starts left in her. A real bacon saver.

Richard tea

Cool gizmo. Won't get a chance to look at the bike until this evening.

Richard tea

looks like a badly corroded connector going to the reg/rec. I damaged the connector trying to remove the spade connector. How to I work out the size connector I need? Its a long shot but would the black plastic connector be something I can pick up at a motor factors/halfords? or is it Honda specific?

Richard tea

pic for info

goblin59

Richard tea wrote: »

looks like a badly corroded connector going to the reg/rec. I damaged the connector trying to remove the spade connector. How to I work out the size connector I need? Its a long shot but would the black plastic connector be something I can pick up at a motor factors/halfords? or is it Honda specific?

You might be able to get the spade connectors themselves to put into the housing.
Halfords would sell something like that.

Richard tea

goblin59 wrote: »

You might be able to get the spade connectors themselves to put into the housing.
Halfords would sell something like that.

Yeah my hope is to get a big enough spade connector. I'll weather proof it using the original housing.

CJhaughey

Those are proprietary Honda connectors, also used on the 1000cc 'blades
You will have trouble with the other one as well looking at the verdigris on the wiring.
That is salt corrosion from the road salt.
If you intend to keep it for a while I would consider getting a replacement RR with sealed plugs.
In the meantime I would definitely open both those connectors and give them a good wash with hot water and some baking soda and scrub them out. Dry them off and refit with some silicone grease or Vaseline at a pinch,slather them liberally so no more salty water gets into them or you will have further problems.
Also check the stator to RR wires there is another plug that connects the three yellow from the stator to the three yellow that go into the RR and that will give trouble as well if water has entered it.
Those poxy Honda engineers specced a unique connector just for those RR units, others have the Shindengen QLW sealed type which are better sealed.

CJhaughey

Forgot to add if you are replacing the terminals, standard 1/4" or 6.35mm terminals won't fit, you need ones from an H4 headlight fitting, they are slightly wider @7.5mm
https://www.vehiclewiringproducts.co.uk/c-1-home/c-55-lighting/c-140-front-lamps/p-1149-main-bulb-connector-for-h4-bulb-straight-terminals

Richard tea

CJhaughey wrote: »

Forgot to add if you are replacing the terminals, standard 1/4" or 6.35mm terminals won't fit, you need ones from an H4 headlight fitting, they are slightly wider @7.5mm
https://www.vehiclewiringproducts.co.uk/c-1-home/c-55-lighting/c-140-front-lamps/p-1149-main-bulb-connector-for-h4-bulb-straight-terminals

Cj is there anything you don't know about bikes... So it's measured from eye to eye 7.5mm?

CJhaughey

Richard tea wrote: »

Cj is there anything you don't know about bikes... So it's measured from eye to eye 7.5mm?

I think it is the width of the spade in the actual RR unit. I have been caught before with the old H4 bulbs thinking they were the standard 1/4" spades that you can buy anywhere but they were extremely tight and hard to fit.
I then discovered the different width terminals :rolleyes:
Sometimes you can force them on, but with cheap terminals they often fracture and that is one connection you really want to have a proper connection.
I would recommend crimping and soldering to make a really good connection, you need all the available current passing through those connectors and any dodgy ones won't give you reliable current.

galwaytt

CJhaughey wrote: »

I think it is the width of the spade in the actual RR unit. I have been caught before with the old H4 bulbs thinking they were the standard 1/4" spades that you can buy anywhere but they were extremely tight and hard to fit.
I then discovered the different width terminals :rolleyes:
Sometimes you can force them on, but with cheap terminals they often fracture and that is one connection you really want to have a proper connection.
I would recommend crimping and soldering to make a really good connection, you need all the available current passing through those connectors and any dodgy ones won't give you reliable current.

Don't forget the 4.8mm spades either

Zebbedee

You've a lot of corrosion there all right. Bound to get poor contacts.

It would be no harm to spray a load of acf-50 over all those connections inside and out.

Fabio

Richard tea wrote: »

pic for info

Looking at that pic, it seems like the r/r is mounted in front of the rear wheel where all manner of stuff is probably flung at it. It might be worth making up a little cover or a flap to keep the worst off but still allow air to flow through the fins.

As others have mentioned, waterproof connections would be the best thing here. Dilectric grease liberally applied will help with non-wp connectors.

Hotblack Desiato

Looks to me like a really bad location for the rec/reg :rolleyes:

You found the culprit, but it is possible for a battery to seem ok and then just die, especially if it's been stored discharged. Plate disintegrates, shorts a cell out and it's game over.

Those terminals are often not big enough for the job, either. When I had to replace my rec/reg it came with much bigger connectors for the stator wires (both halves of the connector) and direct connection to the battery on the output side.

goblin59 wrote: »

as far as I know, even if the battery is dead some bikes can run off the power from the Reg/rec once you get the bump started.

Doubt any can these days. Pretty much any medium or big bike less than 40 years old is going to have CDI which needs some level of battery charge, some carbed bikes and all FI bikes have a fuel pump which is going to need some higher level of battery charge again. That said I have bump started an FI bike which was hardly able to turn the engine at all (after taking the lighting fuses out!)

Really old bikes with magneto and points ignition would run with no battery at all...

Richard tea

Back in business. Managed to pick up some spade terminals. Packed it with electrical silicone grease. It's not an ideal job and I'll have to tidy it up again.

Correct about the rear wheel kicking up alot of spray. I had a mudguard removed to repair it. Best I get that sorted and for it again.

zubair

I had a similar connection issue due to corrosion with my clutch switch which would be more exposed than these. I just wiped it down with some wd40 and then put a little on the male connector and plugged it in and out a few times, then I sprayed it with some acf to protect it, hasn't caused any problems since.

Hotblack Desiato

You can get electrical contact cleaner spray (e.g. Servisol) which is better for cleaning out switches than WD40 although the latter would probably usually do the job. Great for crackly radio / amp knobs

Dunno if it's still a thing but years ago you could get sprays intended to coat car ignition leads to keep damp out.

Put silicone grease on the connector terminals, don't worry about using too much any excess will be pushed out and just wipe it off. The idea is that you will still get the necessary metal-to-metal contact but the grease will keep moisture and oxygen away. Great stuff on aerial / satellite TV connections too.

A clutch switch carries no real current though, a brake light switch has a much harder job!

Richard tea

H_Lime wrote: »

Speaking generally on the subject its worthwhile fitting a voltmeter to any bike.
If numbers mean nothing to you then this is pretty foolproof and cheap

http://sparkbright.co.uk/battery-voltage-monitors.php

I use an argus battery bug which shows real-time voltage and % cca loss from start to start graphically. It sounds an audible bleep when the battery has a couple starts left in her. A real bacon saver.

I got onto them. Going to order one. Seems invaluable for any bike ill have as it pin points charging trouble fast.

Richard tea

Bright spark volt meters arrived. I thought they would have come with a ring terminal to connected direct to the battery. I can sort this myself if need be.


I was just wondering if I could just wire them to this fusebox I installed yonks ago? https://easternbeaver.com/Main/Wiring_Kits/Fuseboxes/PC-8/pc-8.html


Electrical connections instructions are as follows

Hotblack Desiato

I am so not going to click on a link called "eastern beaver" on a work pc :pac:

Does that circuit go off with the ignition?

goblin59

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

I am so not going to click on a link called "eastern beaver" on a work pc :pac:

Does that circuit go off with the ignition?

haha, If i hadn't heard of them before on another forum I'd be cautious too.
They're accessory breakout boxes

Richard tea

Yeah it's a fuse panel. I currently have my heated grips and auxiliary lights wired to them.

Richard tea

Took a chance and wired it to the fuse panel. Seems to be working fine. Ill leave it as is unless someone knows a reason not to wire it this way.

Richard tea

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

I am so not going to click on a link called "eastern beaver" on a work pc :pac:

Does that circuit go off with the ignition?

It has 6 switched live and 2 unswitched.

H_Lime

Love the Eastern beaver kit, have a switchable loom on one of the dr's from him.
You could measure the voltage there vs at the battery terminals to see if there's a drop, should be marginal so I'd rock on as you have it.

flashinthepan

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Dunno if it's still a thing but years ago you could get sprays intended to coat car ignition leads to keep damp out.

Damp start
https://ardauto.ie/p/lubricant_holts_damp_start

two wheels good

Anyone get caught for customs charges from EBeaver? Have we free trade deals with Japan?

Cable-tie a short piece of bicycle tube over the R/R connectors. Not the whole unit!

CJhaughey

Ballistol make some sealant as well. It is actually a physical barrier not just an oil.
I still have a can of that Damp start somewhere, its just a light oil.
https://www.ballistol-shop.de/Seal-Film-Spray-and-Insulating-Spray-200-ml_B-S_240.html

listermint

two wheels good wrote: »

Anyone get caught for customs charges from EBeaver? Have we free trade deals with Japan?

Cable-tie a short piece of bicycle tube over the R/R connectors. Not the whole unit!

Got some eb headlamp wiring relays before I don't recall any additional fees tbh

Hotblack Desiato

H_Lime wrote: »

Love the Eastern beaver

:cool:

CJhaughey wrote: »

Ballistol make some sealant as well. It is actually a physical barrier not just an oil.
I still have a can of that Damp start somewhere, its just a light oil.
https://www.ballistol-shop.de/Seal-Film-Spray-and-Insulating-Spray-200-ml_B-S_240.html

Yeah there was one to displace moisture to get you started, but there was another one which formed a kind of rubbery film intended to prevent you getting into trouble (;)) . Desperate measures in a damp climate in the days when many cars still didn't have electronic ignition!

H_Lime

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

:cool:



Yeah there was one to displace moisture to get you started, but there was another one which formed a kind of rubbery film intended to prevent you getting into trouble (;)) . Desperate measures in a damp climate in the days when many cars still didn't have electronic ignition!

Lolz:D you've a duuurty mind Eoin.