Retail assault

Samantha0

Hello,

I am currently working in a supermarket,

Yesterday I was working in the self checkouts, a group of five travellers came through as usual with no masks on.

As they were purchasing alcohol I had to go over and approve the sale of the alcohol by scanning my card, I kindly asked them to step back so that they went on top of me, after a mouthful of verbal abuse from them, they eventually took a few steps back and I noticed that the self service checkout was also saying that the weight was off as all items placed in the bagging area after a customer scans them get weighed, long story short I saw one of them put a bottle of whisky down that hadn't been scanned when I asked them if they wanted to take it, I scanned it through and approved for the rest of the alcohol.

When I was approving it one of them came up behind me and started putting the money in the machine when I was still in the process of approving the alcohol, I again politely told him to step back both for his safety and my own personal safety. He gave me more verbal abuse then coughed at me.


We experience this abuse on a daily basis from anti makers and so on, a complete lack of regard for anyone else but them selves.

A colleague of mine refused to go over and approve their alcohol a day before and got into trouble with HR, I was just wondering if anyone has any advice in regards to our rights for refusing to serve any customers who don't follow social distancing.

I have no problem with people who genuinely can't wear a mask for certain medical reasons even though the majority of people who do have a legitimate do wear masks and even if they can't wear a mask will often wear a visor and socially distance if we have to approve their alcohol.

We are absolutely sick of the verbal and physical abuse such as being coughed on intentionally. Shoud I report this assault to the police and let them deal with it or should I speak to a manager first although after what happened to my colleague the other day it seems like management themselves have no respect for us employees who face such issues on a daily basis.

SuperSean11

Have security stand there with ye

Samantha0

SuperSean11 wrote: »

Have security stand there with ye

He was already watching them, however he himself is fearful to intervene when there are 5 of them.

dobman88

Call the Gards and report the coughing as an assault, because that's what it is.

People have been prosecuted for coughing in a Gardas face, a quick Google will throw up results to cases. Shop security are generally a waste of time and just looking for a handy number. Call the Gards asap and let them know so they at least have a record of it. Whatever about people being completely thick enough to not wear a mask, theres absolutely no reason to cough in your face, ever, and especially during a pandemic.

SuperSean11

Get manger to stand with

punisher5112

Gardai, call them yourself, record if possible but depending on what employer procedure is, you can request the footage under gdpr and I'd go further with it.

Someone purposely coughing like that is now a big no no and you could make a statement to the Gardai....

It's shocking what they are allowed away with.

Disgusting human beings, nobody in any job should have to face that, security or you.

Your employer has a legal responsibility to protect you also, if you need more information don't hesitate to ask.

I would do as mentioned above.

Wanderer2010

dobman88 wrote: »

Call the Gards and report the coughing as an assault, because that's what it is.

People have been prosecuted for coughing in a Gardas face, a quick Google will throw up results to cases. Shop security are generally a waste of time and just looking for a handy number. Call the Gards asap and let them know so they at least have a record of it. Whatever about people being completely thick enough to not wear a mask, theres absolutely no reason to cough in your face, ever, and especially during a pandemic.

Have any travellers been prosecuted for any Covid19 related rule breaking?

Grab All Association

You need to report this to your employer and An Garda Síochána.

antix80

Op, this was a problem of your making.
You knew what you were dealing with and you're talking about politely asking them this and that. Hit approve and if you think they're robbing tell security.

jay1988

antix80 wrote: »

Op, this was a problem of your making.
You knew what you were dealing with and you're talking about politely asking them this and that. Hit approve and if you think they're robbing tell security.

Seriously, the chap has been assaulted at work and he created the problem? What world do you live in?

Buddy Bubs

antix80 wrote: »

Op, this was a problem of your making.
You knew what you were dealing with and you're talking about politely asking them this and that. Hit approve and if you think they're robbing tell security.

Cop on

ButtersSuki

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Have any travellers been prosecuted for any Covid19 related rule breaking?

Good one. I’ve seen traveller weddings and funerals with 100+ in attendance and gardai turning a complete blind eye to it.

punisher5112

antix80 wrote: »

Op, this was a problem of your making.
You knew what you were dealing with and you're talking about politely asking them this and that. Hit approve and if you think they're robbing tell security.

Oh great one of those....

Seriously this mentality needs to stop, the op was going their job as directed, to be honest it gets to the point in these jobs you just get so use to asking.

Scum are scum and it was in no way the ops fault.

Victim shaming

antix80

antix80 wrote: »

Op, this was a problem of your making.
You knew what you were dealing with and you're talking about politely asking them this and that. Hit approve and if you think they're robbing tell security.

It’s only February but I think this could be a contender at the end of the year.

kerryjack

antix80 wrote: »

Op, this was a problem of your making.
You knew what you were dealing with and you're talking about politely asking them this and that. Hit approve and if you think they're robbing tell security.

Have to agree with you there Management says to approve it, just go over press the button get them out of the place as quickly as you can. If they take an extra bottle, that's security problem no point of being a hero on minimum wage.

Rodney Bathgate

antix80 wrote: »

Op, this was a problem of your making.
You knew what you were dealing with and you're talking about politely asking them this and that. Hit approve and if you think they're robbing tell security.

Victim blaming?

antix80

Wow didn't expect the reaction.

What i meant was.... With the upmost respect to the travelling community... Coughing at you was the least of what these people are capable of.

If management turned them away they'd end up paying them 5k a piece.

For the sake of a €20 btl of whiskey i'd double mask, say "you're over 18,lolz" and hit approve.

No assault. No tears. Nothing to me.

punisher5112

antix80 wrote: »

Wow didn't expect the reaction.

What i meant was.... With the upmost respect to the travelling community... Coughing at you was the least of what these people are capable of.

If management turned them away they'd end up paying them 5k a piece.

For the sake of a €20 btl of whiskey i'd double mask, say "you're over 18,lolz" and hit approve.

No assault. No tears. Nothing to me.

And then be questioned why you approved, why they were under 18 etc etc... Can of worms.

Just because one is a traveller doesn't mean then can do as they please....

Vestiapx

punisher5112 wrote: »

And then be questioned why you approved, why they were under 18 etc etc... Can of worms.

Just because one is a traveller doesn't mean then can do as they please....

Well ......

Sonic the Shaghog

No surprise your colleague got in trouble. I've seen plenty of shops that would rather their staff gets covid than lose even 5 euro worth of sales by falling out with a customer

Wildly Boaring

Sonic the Shaghog wrote: »

No surprise your colleague got in trouble. I've seen plenty of shops that would rather their staff gets covid than lose even 5 euro worth of sales by falling out with a customer

With these boyd it's not the few euro of sales.

It's the massive claim x 5 they'll face in the coming months

antix80

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

With these boyd it's not the few euro of sales.

It's the massive claim x 5 they'll face in the coming months

That's the point.. One of the reasons they're so brazen. The other being they'll beat the **** out of you.

Look, I'm not that concerned about covid. If i were, i wouldn't work checkouts. But why confront 5 travellers and tell them to maintain a sicial distance. It doesn't make sense. The ppl op encountered were attempting to steal and intimidate. Is it really a good time to teach them social distancing etiquette?

antix80

antix80 wrote: »

That's the point.. One of the reasons they're so brazen. The other being they'll beat the **** out of you.

Look, I'm not that concerned about covid. If i were, i wouldn't work checkouts. But why confront 5 travellers and tell them to maintain a sicial distance. It doesn't make sense. The ppl op encountered were attempting to steal and intimidate. Is it really a good time to teach them social distancing etiquette?

Why charge them for the items at all?

antix80

Dav010 wrote: »

Why charge them for the items at all?

The company installed self service checkouts.. Ask them.

Warbeastrior

I just want to stay thank you to the OP for their steller work in this pandemic amidst very challenging working conditions.
That is absolutely abhorrent behaviour and simply not on.

Feisar

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Victim blaming?

F me this chestnut. The poster offered solid real world advice and this muck is the response. It’s not like the Gardaí will be down in 2 mins and sort out the problem. I was told by a traveller I was refusing in a pub once that it was only a day out for him. The rest of us don’t want a day in court. It’s not about winning in these situations, it’s about cruising through the day with the least amount of hassle possible. There’s no medals for being right on.

Snake Plisken

Cops won't do anything to them turn a blind eye seen them walking around shops with no masks and the brazen look on their faces. OP shouldn't have been left in such a risky situation, security and duty manager should have been over to watch the but probably both frightened of them. I would have left them waiting the self checkouts wouldn't have accepted the cash as it recognise the extra bottle in the bagging area. Well done Enda Kenny for giving the travellers this kind of power to harrass businesses and their employees.
If they come in again let theanafer and security deal with them if you're on the self checkouts

Esse85

I'd suggest reporting to the gardai and looking for another employer, one that puts its employee's health and safety ahead of company profits.
Nobody should have to suffer intimidation like that during work and be expected to be cool with it.

Morathi

Samantha0 wrote: »

A colleague of mine refused to go over and approve their alcohol a day before and got into trouble with HR, I was just wondering if anyone has any advice in regards to our rights for refusing to serve any customers who don't follow social distancing.

This is terrible management tbh, and if they weren't wearing masks, your colleague needs to go complain higher.

In the current state of the pandemic in Ireland, forcing someone to deal with multiple people not wearing masks is literally forcing that person to knowingly put their own health at risk. If that was me, and I got sh1t from HR, I'd be going to my solicitor.

If your employer is not enforcing mask wearing, they're also putting their whole store at risk, employees and customers.

antix80

Tesco now let's cashiers approve alcohol remotely rather than from the checkout being used. They weighed up the risk of approving under 18s vs covid precautions.
I'd nearly guess op worked in supervalu. Shambles of a self service checkout system there

Wanderer2010

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Good one. I’ve seen traveller weddings and funerals with 100+ in attendance and gardai turning a complete blind eye to it.

Gardai are too scared of them to tackle them. The dogs on the street know they are a law unto themselves and can do anything they want. I sympathise with the OP but the advice of telling the Gardai simply wont go anywhere and they need to factor that into any action or shift in mindset they adopt.

antix80

GT89 wrote: »

Serving booze to a minor is a sackable offence. Most shops it's challenge 25 or challenge 23.

Where did op mention a minor?

The DayDream

I also work in 'essential' retail (though we dont sell food or medicine and could easily be emergency only).

IME you will get no support from management, they only care about the bottom line. And people saying call the gardai have obviously never tried doing that. It's beyond useless for anti social behaviour like this.

While I don't agree with the poster saying that it's OP's fault, I do agree with some of the advice. Especially if you live locally. Go over to them with a 'howya lads, few jars is it?' hit approve and leave them to it, dont bother your hole one bit about what theyre at. You're not security and no supermarket job is worth having to look over your shoulder when you walk down the street. Far better off to be the one they know who's the sound one that works in the shop rather than the snobby b word one.

If they aren't following social distancing or are stealing or anything like that let security stop them coming in or leaving. Especially since you actually have security. The corporate overlords don't care what happens to you, they're already happy to let you risk your life. If they want to let cretins like that in then they can deal with the loss of the whiskey or whatever, don't take these scummers on yourself.

Retail is hard at the best of times but you'd be shocked how little appreciation you get from people who are getting paid 350 a week to sit on the couch yet have the nerve to make things difficult for those risking their lives to sell them Cheetos to eat on said couch.

The DayDream

antix80 wrote: »

Where did op mention a minor?

They didn't, this poster just likes to jump to bizarre conclusions like you can end up with a criminal record for selling alcohol to a minor at work. Probably the type who calls weed smokers junkies.

snoopy84

antix80 wrote:

Look, I'm not that concerned about covid. If i were, i wouldn't work checkouts. But why confront 5 travellers and tell them to maintain a sicial distance. It doesn't make sense. The ppl op encountered were attempting to steal and intimidate. Is it really a good time to teach them social distancing etiquette?

You may have misunderstood the op. They didn't approach them to confront them about stealing they had to approach them to verify the sale of alcohol. The till then told them there was an item in baggage that hadn't been scanned. Should op have just verified that aswell? I do however get your point about choosing your battles as frustrating and soul crushing as it is

AndrewJRenko

The DayDream wrote: »

I also work in 'essential' retail (though we dont sell food or medicine and could easily be emergency only).

IME you will get no support from management, they only care about the bottom line. And people saying call the gardai have obviously never tried doing that. It's beyond useless for anti social behaviour like this.

.

If you don't get reasonable support from management, you could put a report in to the Health and Safety Authority

https://www.hsa.ie/eng/contact_us/workplace_contact_unit/

It might just make it harder for management to treat others in the same way in future.

Wanderer78

Samantha0 wrote:

We are absolutely sick of the verbal and physical abuse such as being coughed on intentionally. Shoud I report this assault to the police and let them deal with it or should I speak to a manager first although after what happened to my colleague the other day it seems like management themselves have no respect for us employees who face such issues on a daily basis.

Management couldn't give a sh1te about you, as long as you 'maximise share holder value', I'd go to the gardai, but that would probably mean preparing for the dole

LegacyUser

I work in retail myself hence the anon reply. I have had my fair share of unruly customers and believe me, you have more rights than you think but it's how you portray yourself while maintaining the customer to believe they have "won" as such.
Diversity being one thing, being respectable is another and that goes for both yourself and the customer. The saying " we treat everyone with respect" rings true and I will say holding your own shows more respect than you realise

1) You have a right to refuse service (to a point) - I state this lightly because technically we can't turn someone away or tell someone at the front door we aren't going to serve them on the first instance but what I will say is, during a transaction if you feel threatened or uncomfortable you are within your rights to stop, explain you're going to get a supervisor/management and you're going to let them carry on. I've done this on many occasions throughout the 12 plus years of working in retail. I've had customers scream and shout and throw things so my first instance is too state clearly that I won't be continuing the transaction but I will have someone else carry on and walk away (usually this calms them down and they've snapped out of the attitude they arrived in with) You're not refusing them a service and you're removing yourself away from a situation. You both win. How they react is different and that is what a supervisor and management is there for - to take over when a staff member is in a difficult situation

2) After the situation, go to your HR office, regardless if they are useless or not and explain everything and write it all down and tell them you want this on file. Why? Customers like the ones you've explained, go into a store with an attitude like that for a reason. Whether you agree or not is not the case but you're showing that you've raised this concern and this wouldn't be the first instance of a situation. What happens after that is also none of your concern but you've explained your actions and reasons. I've done this once over the 12 years and its saved myself the hastle of the customer returning with guns blazing and my HR know that although I am employed to a role I've been assigned too, I am not being paid to take on customers crap either. Respect goes both ways. This in turn can depend on your HR and they might tell you to just ignore it and move on which is fine but you've raised a certain concern.

(I don't mean report every single customer that didn't say hello or thank you but it's the ones who you felt put your health and safety at risk. I also want to state that this doesn't mean report every single person that made you feel the transaction didn't go well, you get what I mean)

3) Remember calm and collective goes further than you think. It's not easy believe me. I've had customers scream hurry up as soon as they've arrived to the tills but remaining calm and give that sly but not sly smile to say that you've heard them, but you're not going to bow down because they are having a rubbish day. Smile, serve, wish them a good day and off they go. Next please....

4) Let security know. They are there for a reason and your situation was valid enough for them to decided what the next step is. Usually they wave their hands and say it's fine and allow them in again but you've told them what has happened.

5) If the issue has not be dealt with by the proper authorities and the people who are supposed to have your health and safety at their best interest then you can take it further to the Health and Safety Authority who can give direct advice on how to best deal with a situation like this and prevent it from happening again. This I think will be going a step further to an issue that won't be resolved as quick as you think. Like previous posters have said, most if not all, retail companies mainly care about their profits than their staffs well-being. If there was a simple solution, it's leave and you won't have to deal with customers and some of their a**holyness.

I am a believer in standing your ground and working in retail can test the patience of a saint but I hold true when I say be Calm and Collective and before you know it, the situation wasn't as bad as it seemed. On the first instance of any transaction and you feel the customer is already making you feel awkward, start the most random conversation. My go to is to point out an item I pretend I never used and it gets them going, we both know they are talking absolute sh*te. If you're on the self service till and notice the customer has added an item that hasn't been scanned..."Whoops I'll put that in for you now there"...Their reaction towards this action to the fact that you didn't allow them rob basically is just their defence mechanism to not being able to get away with what they want. Their civil status doesn't come into equation but who know the ones who abuse it. Let them think that they are bigger than they let on and all will be fine. You just keep going about your job and day and before you know it, you've forgotten what even happened.

TL;DR smile, think to yourself "you're a cnut" and bid them a lovely day

punisher5112

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Management couldn't give a sh1te about you, as long as you 'maximise share holder value', I'd go to the gardai, but that would probably mean preparing for the dole

And then unfair dismissal or constructive dismissal....

Jaysus the op done their job, done as training tells them, they didn't look to be assaulted.

Nobody in any job or as an ordinary citizen should be subject to such or any abuse, threats or harm.

The employer has a duty of care and is held in much higher account to do so. Protect their employees and customers to a legal standard.

Wanderer78

punisher5112 wrote: »

And then unfair dismissal or constructive dismissal....

Jaysus the op done their job, done as training tells them, they didn't look to be assaulted.

Nobody in any job or as an ordinary citizen should be subject to such or any abuse, threats or harm.

The employer has a duty of care and is held in much higher account to do so. Protect their employees and customers to a legal standard.

its not called 'precarious employment' for nothing

Fiery mutant

For those saying management have to enforce mask wearing, all they can do is request the customer wears a mask, and if they refuse, call the gardai. I’ve done it a number of times over the last few months, and to be fair to the gardai, they are being strict on this, and we normally see them within a few minutes.

Sorry for your experience OP, nobody needs this hassle when they are just trying to work. Speak to your line manager anyway and express your frustrations, see if there is anything they can do if something like this pops up again.

thegetawaycar

Ring Gardai, don't mention travellers, just say customers coughing on you and not wearing masks. I've seen this once or twice and in fairness the Gardai arrived quick enough

Samantha0

antix80 wrote: »

Tesco now let's cashiers approve alcohol remotely rather than from the checkout being used. They weighed up the risk of approving under 18s vs covid precautions.
I'd nearly guess op worked in supervalu. Shambles of a self service checkout system there

Supervalu indeed, terrible place

Vestiapx

Samantha0 wrote: »

Supervalu indeed, terrible place

Same basic local Tesco staff since they were quinsworth. Lads I remember seeing stacking shelves are management now.

Supervalue have different staff every time I go in.
That's how you know.

Ciarrai76

Definitely report to Gardai. I work in retail and I don't hesitate to call Gardai, and if this happened to me it would be done in a flash!

Gardai told us to call them if you have any sort of incidents regarding masks etc. They have the power to deal with it. Don't put yourself at risk.

Strumms

I know it’s all very well in hindsight and this is NOT a criticism...I’d have probably like you tried to be proactive and what not in the heat of the moment but..

You were coughed on, during a pandemic, deliberately, by a customer...

At that point I’d have not lifted a finger for them, I’d walk away, stop assisting them, report them and the incident in detail to a manager...

What the manager should do is inform security, who should inform them their custom is no longer desired and they are to exit the store immediately, a simple hesitation to comply with the instruction call the Gardai..

IF the manager attempted to return you to assist them or admonish / discipline you over not continuing to assist them... walk, there and then, simply wouldn’t work in those conditions, I’d also report your employer and the incident to the HSE.

OMM 0000

It's not your company.

The owners and management are not providing the resources to deal with this problem.

You should not be expected to deal with it.

Let them steal the whiskey.

poisonated

How do you know they are travellers? Coughing on someone is disgusting (especially at the moment).

a_squirrelman

poisonated wrote: »

How do you know they are travellers? Coughing on someone is disgusting (especially at the moment).

They were there, you were not.

It was in their town, where they most likely know in some way or another who is who.
And on top of that, who doesn't know a traveller as soon as they open their mouths.
Silly question.

punisher5112

poisonated wrote: »

How do you know they are travellers? Coughing on someone is disgusting (especially at the moment).

Very easily

yesiam1

OMM 0000 wrote: »

It's not your company.

The owners and management are not providing the resources to deal with this problem.

You should not be expected to deal with it.

Let them steal the whiskey.

This. It's of no loss to you if people manage to steal something. It's not worth the abuse you will receive.
Your company is insured for lost/damaged/stolen stock. Your company also makes a large profit and your managers get paid nicely.

I personally would give zero ****es if somebody managed to steal the whisky. Leave them off it if makes your life easier.