Need to evict licensee

EddieSteele

Mic 1972 wrote: »

The Garda got involved in evicting one of my lodgers in the past, so yes they are familiar with rent-a-room and will intervene if required.
Rent-a-room is regulated by Irish law as per below. A written contract can't overwrite the nature of it.

IIs that apply also to tenants who rent-a-room?

I am sorry but I am looking for some advice here. (Also, sorry for my English but I am a Spanish native speaker) I don't even know where to start. Well two years ago, I was looking for someone to rent a room (my landlord was aware, I have been the only tenant on the lease for more than 6 years) So, I chose someone (let's call her Claire). The first year was quite ok, even if I received a warning from the property management because she had a party (we live in a small building) However, since the first lockdown, things have been escalated. She is currently unemployed due to the current situation and I work from home.

Basically, for almost a year now, she lives at night. She invites her friends to come over despite visits are not permitted. She is on drugs almost on daily basis. (and when I said drugs, it is heavy stuff like cocaine and ketamine) She is smoking in her room. She is moving stuff during night time.
I served her a notice period on Friday after having confirmation by RTB and Threshold that she is a licensee. However, on Friday night she still invited her friends to come over, they left at 10 pm to go to a party, She came back with a random dude at 11 am. They are smoking and I could smell it in the living room. Today. she invited one of her friends for a dinner and then she invited another guy to have sex with and drugs. That was too much to handle as I am working and that affects my mental health and my work.

I went to the Garda Station at 1 am and they basically told me, they can't evict her friends. They also told me they can't evict her after the notice period and it is the landlord's responsibility. Even I told them, she is a licensee and doesn't fall under the PRTB, they told me the landlord has to claim a dispute with the RTB??? I am not Irish and not familiar with Irish laws but this is completely wrong. Also, the guards told me she isn't against the law and they said "Why you don't move in another room?" Like seriously????

jimmycrackcorm

Has she signed a lease? Who did she pay rent to, you or the landlord?

EddieSteele

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Has she signed a lease? Who did she pay rent to, you or the landlord?

She hasn''t signed anything it was an oral agreement and she is paying the rent to me directly

L-M

EddieSteele wrote: »

She hasn''t signed anything it was an oral agreement and she is paying the rent to me directly

When she goes out next just leave your key in the door. She has no rights, and she sounds like someone who deserves no sympathy.

dubrov

The guards taking the easy way out as usual.

Ring them again and tell them you have a trespasser that needs to be removed. Do not refer to them as a tenant

Zebrag

afkasurfjunkie wrote: »

Kids are off now for next few weeks. Make sure they make as much noise as possible. Shrug your shoulders if she complains. Warn your other tenant in advance. She’ll go herself hopefully.

I agree with this. Not in a petty way but in a "this is YOUR home and you make the rules" way
She's a tenant renting a room. That's it. She doesn't have any say on how the house should be ran. In fact she should be counting her blessings that she isn't renting from someone who is making her life a misery, gurantee she would be gone quicker
You have a contract with her that says you can give one months notice. There you go.
Taking the bathroom key? That's hiding property for one. Pretty sure that's stealing.
I still would make all the noises and tell her to hand the keys over, if not change the bathroom lock and don't give her any keys so she doesn't have the authority to do anything.
Speak to both tenants and see if you can come to an agreement and I echo a previous poster about having a witness there because this tenant sounds vindictive.
This is your home and I think you're being too nice. Stand your ground and make her see that she doesn't rule anyone

if there are any updates can people say which poster they are replying to as there are now 2 different stories going on in this thread and replies coming in to both................... Thanks (I'm getting confused!)

EddieSteele

dubrov wrote: »

The guards taking the easy way out as usual.

Ring them again and tell them you have a trespasser that needs to be removed. Do not refer to them as a tenant

I wish I could but I sent her an email saying she has 28 days to leave (well 25 now) so she has a proof that legally she can stay here until the 5th of March.
I haven't slept last night. Her TV was too loud and she was laughing with her random guy until 4 am taking stuff and all. I had to ask for a day off today...

Mic 1972

EddieSteele wrote: »

IIs that apply also to tenants who rent-a-room?

I am sorry but I am looking for some advice here. (Also, sorry for my English but I am a Spanish native speaker) I don't even know where to start. Well two years ago, I was looking for someone to rent a room (my landlord was aware, I have been the only tenant on the lease for more than 6 years) So, I chose someone (let's call her Claire). The first year was quite ok, even if I received a warning from the property management because she had a party (we live in a small building) However, since the first lockdown, things have been escalated. She is currently unemployed due to the current situation and I work from home.

Basically, for almost a year now, she lives at night. She invites her friends to come over despite visits are not permitted. She is on drugs almost on daily basis. (and when I said drugs, it is heavy stuff like cocaine and ketamine) She is smoking in her room. She is moving stuff during night time.
I served her a notice period on Friday after having confirmation by RTB and Threshold that she is a licensee. However, on Friday night she still invited her friends to come over, they left at 10 pm to go to a party, She came back with a random dude at 11 am. They are smoking and I could smell it in the living room. Today. she invited one of her friends for a dinner and then she invited another guy to have sex with and drugs. That was too much to handle as I am working and that affects my mental health and my work.

I went to the Garda Station at 1 am and they basically told me, they can't evict her friends. They also told me they can't evict her after the notice period and it is the landlord's responsibility. Even I told them, she is a licensee and doesn't fall under the PRTB, they told me the landlord has to claim a dispute with the RTB??? I am not Irish and not familiar with Irish laws but this is completely wrong. Also, the guards told me she isn't against the law and they said "Why you don't move in another room?" Like seriously????

I had the same problem. I caught my lodgers doing lines of coke in the kitchen and told them that i wasn't going to tolerate that.
The situation deteriorated within a couple of weeks, so I called up cops who came in the middle of the night and spoke to the guys, who at that point were all nice and friendly.
I made them agree in front of the cops that they were going to leave the morning after and so they did.


This was a rent-a-room situation. The cops can evict unwelcome people from your house, as long as you live there too.

EddieSteele

Mic 1972 wrote: »

I had the same problem. I caught my lodgers doing lines of coke in the kitchen and told them that i wasn't going to tolerate that.
The situation deteriorated within a couple of weeks, so I called up cops who came in the middle of the night and spoke to the guys, who at that point were all nice and friendly.
I made them agree in front of the cops that they were going to leave the morning after and so they did.


This was a rent-a-room situation. The cops can evict unwelcome people from your house, as long as you live there too.

She is doing it in her room so basically I have no real proof... Also, I sent a notice to vacate so I am pretty sure she can use it against me.

"This was a rent-a-room situation. The cops can evict unwelcome people from your house, as long as you live there too." this isn't what they said at the Ballymun Garda Station yesterday...

And for those who told me that I could leave, it is a complete no. I have been here almost 7 years now. I love my neighbourhood, I have decorated the apartment, had great tenant before. Why I should leave? So basically someone who is not hygienic, taking stuff on daily basis, make noises can stay and I have to leave. She is not going win.

eastie17

Surely if you go to the Garda station and say there is a person in your house taking illegal drugs they have to show up and investigate that?

Seth Brundle

EddieSteele wrote: »

She is doing it in her room so basically I have no real proof... Also, I sent a notice to vacate so I am pretty sure she can use it against me.

Just tell her that due to contiinued law breaking (drug use and non-compliance of the covid regs) you are now giving her 24 or 48 hours.

EddieSteele

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Just tell her that due to contiinued law breaking (drug use and non-compliance of the covid regs) you are now giving her 24 or 48 hours.

The Garda told me there is no official laws for covid 19 so they can't ask her friend to leave and it won't work to ask someone to leave because they invited friend... I thought I was in a real nightmare yesterday...

punisher5112

How is this still going.
Advice was given.

LL living in the property means the guest in the he has no rights....
You can kick them out.

EddieSteele

eastie17 wrote: »

Surely if you go to the Garda station and say there is a person in your house taking illegal drugs they have to show up and investigate that?

Apparently no... I had a young lady at the office so I don't know but she seems to have no clue and weren't really helpful

Mic 1972

EddieSteele wrote: »

She is doing it in her room so basically I have no real proof... Also, I sent a notice to vacate so I am pretty sure she can use it against me.

"This was a rent-a-room situation. The cops can evict unwelcome people from your house, as long as you live there too." this isn't what they said at the Ballymun Garda Station yesterday...

And for those who told me that I could leave, it is a complete no. I have been here almost 7 years now. I love my neighbourhood, I have decorated the apartment, had great tenant before. Why I should leave? So basically someone who is not hygienic, taking stuff on daily basis, make noises can stay and I have to leave. She is not going win.

Sure the cops should be familiar with the law.
If you are renting a room in your own house, your guests can stay there for as long as you allow them to be. They are entitled to reasonable notice and can't force you to keep them. They are not leasing a self contained unit

EddieSteele

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Sure the cops should be familiar with the law.
If you are renting a room in your own house, your guests can stay there for as long as you allow them to be. They are entitled to reasonable notice and can't force you to keep them. They are not leasing a self contained unit

I am not a landlord I am only the tenant which basically is a bit more complicated. RTB can't help cause I am not a landlord but a tenant who has issues with a licensee. Threshold can't help because they consider I am a sub-landlord... Police told me to open a Court claim with RTB and Agency+ landlord told me it is my responsibility...

TSQ

You have given notice. Have a locksmith ready to change the locks front and back doors on the final day, stay home all day or longer, lock her out soon as she leaves the house and dont let her back in. Pack her stuff and advise her that it will be placed outside for collection on x date

Graces7

EddieSteele wrote: »

I am not a landlord I am only the tenant which basically is a bit more complicated. RTB can't help cause I am not a landlord but a tenant who has issues with a licensee. Threshold can't help because they consider I am a sub-landlord... Police told me to open a Court claim with RTB and Agency+ landlord told me it is my responsibility...

All passing the buck of course. I am seething here for you

But maybe you are calling the wrong people?

Please, give Citizens information a call? I have found them a mine of accurate information in an astounding range of things.

ALSO ; call Threshhold.

Good luck.

EddieSteele

Graces7 wrote: »

All passing the buck of course. I am seething here for you

But maybe you are calling the wrong people?

Please, give Citizens information a call? I have found them a mine of accurate information in an astounding range of things.

ALSO ; call Threshhold.

Good luck.

roroud rtion i

Well I will wait until the 5th of March and see what will happen. The landlord doesn't mind if I change the lock however I was thinking that might have still the key to the main building entrance... and the mail box

EddieSteele

EddieSteele wrote: »

Well I will wait until the 5th of March and see what will happen. The landlord doesn't mind if I change the lock however I was thinking that might have still the key to the main building entrance... and the mail box

I was wondering this, as I was reading the thread.

Does the existing tenant (EddieSteele) have the authority to ask the licensee to leave, or does it have to come directly from the landlord who owns the property?

I already assumed the landlord's permission would be required to change any locks.

Caranica

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I was wondering this, as I was reading the thread.

Does the existing tenant (EddieSteele) have the authority to ask the licensee to leave, or does it have to come directly from the landlord who owns the property?

I already assumed the landlord's permission would be required to change any locks.

The landlord has no relationship with the tenant's licensee. So no role to play between the two.

Meeoow

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I was wondering this, as I was reading the thread.

Does the existing tenant (EddieSteele) have the authority to ask the licensee to leave, or does it have to come directly from the landlord who owns the property?

I already assumed the landlord's permission would be required to change any locks.

Eddie has sublet, so it is their risk and reward. The risk is a bad licensee, their reward is lower rent to ll. Eddie cannot expect ll to assist, as they are renting to Eddie alone.
Eddie cannot expect guards to assist, as it is not a criminal issue.
Eddie has given licensee notice, and is preempting a problem, which may not occur.
Eddie will have to pay for lock change, as it is their responsibility, not ll.

emmalynn19

Graces7 wrote: »

All passing the buck of course. I am seething here for you

But maybe you are calling the wrong people?

The buck stops with EddieSteele, nobody else. He entered into the sublet arrangement for financial gain, he is responsible, not the state.

skooterblue2

emmalynn19 wrote: »

The buck stops with EddieSteele, nobody else. He entered into the sublet arrangement for financial gain, he is responsible, not the state.

There is also the small point of not being a shi%%y tenant.

EddieSteele

emmalynn19 wrote: »

The buck stops with EddieSteele, nobody else. He entered into the sublet arrangement for financial gain, he is responsible, not the state.

What do you mean by financial gain?

EddieSteele

Just to make things clear, I have asked two years ago to my landlord if we can be two on the lease and not only myself. It was a completely no from her side and she said she only trust me as I have been a good tenant for 6 years.
Also I am not subletting for financial gain at all. My licensee pays actually less than me as she is unemployed... And of course, I had to take responsibility for this which cause me stress...

dubrov

EddieSteele wrote:

Just to make things clear, I have asked two years ago to my landlord if we can be two on the lease and not only myself. It was a completely no from her side and she said she only trust me as I have been a good tenant for 6 years. Also I am not subletting for financial gain at all. My licensee pays actually less than me as she is unemployed... And of course, I had to take responsibility for this which cause me stress...

It looks like your landlord wants the easy life with you taking care of finding a second tenant and dealing with any shortfall in rent.

You'd think the landlord would at least give you reduced rent for your effort

Mrs OBumble

emmalynn19 wrote: »

The buck stops with EddieSteele, nobody else. He entered into the sublet arrangement for financial gain, he is responsible, not the state.

He is responsible for a house mate using drugs and violating Covid restrictions?

EddieSteele

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

He is responsible for a house mate using drugs and violating Covid restrictions?

I am a woman but yes it sounds I should be responsible of that apparently

EddieSteele

dubrov wrote: »

It looks like your landlord wants the easy life with you taking care of finding a second tenant and dealing with any shortfall in rent.

You'd think the landlord would at least give you reduced rent for your effort

Completely agree with you... But as I am too nice and too naive I don't say anything. I couldn't pay the full rent this month and told her. Also, tell her I could pay the difference next month. I even showed my new salary. (My current company has decreased our salary due to covid 19) She didn't even say it's ok to leave it like this for the month.

When I told her in October what happened between me and the licensee, she basically asked me but "why are you upset if she is inviting someone over" (the visits were not permitted at that time) and then I talked about the drugs issue she has, she told me to contact the police at last resort.

emmalynn19

EddieSteele wrote: »

Just to make things clear, I have asked two years ago to my landlord if we can be two on the lease and not only myself. It was a completely no from her side and she said she only trust me as I have been a good tenant for 6 years.
Also I am not subletting for financial gain at all. My licensee pays actually less than me as she is unemployed... And of course, I had to take responsibility for this which cause me stress...

The person youve sublet to is paying a percentage of the rent due on the property, why else would you sublet? For the company?

emmalynn19

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

He is responsible for a house mate using drugs and violating Covid restrictions?

Yes. He chose the tenant, he is responsible for removing them. Exactly the same as a landlord being responsible for anti-social tenants.

Graces7

emmalynn19 wrote: »

The buck stops with EddieSteele, nobody else. He entered into the sublet arrangement for financial gain, he is responsible, not the state.

I meant of course for advice not to act for him. Given that this cannot be the first time this situation has developed and that others might have helpful advice

Graces7

emmalynn19 wrote: »

The buck stops with EddieSteele, nobody else. He entered into the sublet arrangement for financial gain, he is responsible, not the state.

Interesting and revealing misinterpretation of what I wrote …

EddieSteele

emmalynn19 wrote: »

The person youve sublet to is paying a percentage of the rent due on the property, why else would you sublet? For the company?

Jesus Christ...
First of all, I was not the original tenant here, I moved in as my friend was the original tenant. Then when he decided to move back to Spain, my landlord told me I will be the only one on the lease. As I had a small salary, of course, I asked for another tenant. She said I can choose one but I will remain the only tenant in the contract. I didn't want to leave as it is a secure area, and as for the price I paid for a room it was worth it. I can't pay 1400 euros on my own...
And my first question wasn't related to what you are saying

Graces7

EddieSteele wrote: »

Apparently no... I had a young lady at the office so I don't know but she seems to have no clue and weren't really helpful

Go back to the Gardaí and ask to speak to someone higher up. And do call Citizens Information please

the_syco

EddieSteele wrote: »

She said I can choose one but I will remain the only tenant in the contract.

Thus you're the defacto landlord to your subtenant. The 28 days notice is nice, but her anti-social activities now force you to give her 48 hours to GTFO.

EddieSteele

the_syco wrote: »

Thus you're the defacto landlord to your subtenant. The 28 days notice is nice, but her anti-social activities now force you to give her 48 hours to GTFO.

I will see what will happen this week. She has been warned again by email. No one yesterday or today (well for her, her day has begun at 4 pm so I wouldn't be surprised if she invites someone over at 1 am)
I record everything on daily basis (audio, video, photos) just in case it will go further

EddieSteele

Graces7 wrote: »

Go back to the Gardaí and ask to speak to someone higher up. And do call Citizens Information please

I got the Citizenship Information, I had a really nice lady over the phone and it is actually due to her that I had all the info to give my licensee a notice period. I will call tomorrow as well, to have more info about what could result in case she refused to leave and what we could legally do.

emmalynn19

EddieSteele wrote: »

I didn't want to leave as it is a secure area, and as for the price I paid for a room it was worth it. I can't pay 1400 euros on my own...

So? This is how tenancy law works. It wasnt viable for you to live there, so you brought in someone else to subsidise you living there. You are responsible for that individual, not the Garda, not your landlord, not the RTB, or threshold, or anyone else. Evict them or move out.

EddieSteele

emmalynn19 wrote: »

So? This is how tenancy law works. It wasnt viable for you to live there, so you brought in someone else to subsidise you living there. You are responsible for that individual, not the Garda, not your landlord, not the RTB, or threshold, or anyone else. Evict them or move out.

For the last time, yes I know I am responsible for my licensee's behavior.
However, if there are drugs in the flat, the Garda can actually do something, no? (or maybe I am totally wrong on that one)
"Evict them or move out" it isn't as simple as you think it is...

rightmove

emmalynn19 wrote: »

So? This is how tenancy law works. It wasnt viable for you to live there, so you brought in someone else to subsidise you living there. You are responsible for that individual, not the Garda, not your landlord, not the RTB, or threshold, or anyone else. Evict them or move out.

Are you Eddies tenant?:D

Has the licensee made any threats of violence or intimidation?

I checked with my brother who lets rooms in his house and this is what happened when he had to remove a difficult licensee due to her behaviour. When he asked her to leave (with 7 days notice) she made threats against him and his other licensee (including burning the house down with them in it if he tried to remove her) and he reported this to the local Gardai.

The Gardai took note and told him to ring them if she got aggressive or refused to leave - which she did. The Gardai then attended, but stayed outside while she removed her belongings.

They also gave her a quiet warning that it would not go well for her if she came back causing any more trouble.

He changed the locks as soon as she was gone, but he never heard a peep from her again.

Hit her with a little ghetto gospel at 8AM every day until she Fu*ks off. Get the kids to join in

Mrs OBumble

emmalynn19 wrote: »

Yes. He chose the tenant, he is responsible for removing them. Exactly the same as a landlord being responsible for anti-social tenants.

Woohoo! If a housemate does illegal stuff , it's there housemate who gets to act against them.

Vigilante justice here we come.

EddieSteele

Deleted User wrote: »

Has the licensee made any threats of violence or intimidation?

I checked with my brother who lets rooms in his house and this is what happened when he had to remove a difficult licensee due to her behaviour. When he asked her to leave (with 7 days notice) she made threats against him and his other licensee (including burning the house down with them in it if he tried to remove her) and he reported this to the local Gardai.

The Gardai took note and told him to ring them if she got aggressive or refused to leave - which she did. The Gardai then attended, but stayed outside while she removed her belongings.

They also gave her a quiet warning that it would not go well for her if she came back causing any more trouble.

He changed the locks as soon as she was gone, but he never heard a peep from her again.

I am reassured by reading this. She has not made any threats. I think she knows that if she does it, she can have trouble for sure.
The Guards I had on Sunday night, told me to open a claim with RTB. I really do think she didn't understand she was a licensee.

rightmove

rightmove wrote: »

Are you Eddies tenant?:D

What emmalynn’s post lacks in eloquence, it makes up for in clarity.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Woohoo! If a housemate does illegal stuff , it's there housemate who gets to act against them.

Vigilante justice here we come.

As the person who chose to sublet and agreed to the licensee moving in, it’s hard to see where else responsibility for sorting it out should lie.

I’m sure someone posted an RTB case a few months ago where a LL could not legally remove a licensee after the lead tenant had moved out, only the tenant could end the license agreement.

iagreebut

Buy some house plants, scented geraniums, and burn sage now and again, while AVE Satani is playing in the background...

Get black candle's too, you're free to practice black magic...

If you can't do it the nice way, go all evil...

It'll freak her out lol

EddieSteele

iagreebut wrote: »

Buy some house plants, scented geraniums, and burn sage now and again, while AVE Satani is playing in the background...

Get black candle's too, you're free to practice black magic...

If you can't do it the nice way, go all evil...

It'll freak her out lol

We don't seek revenge in Satanism (well depends on which branch you are in)
Trust me death and black metal doesn't stop her ! lol