Become landlord but keep bills in my name

Firblog

Hi,

I'm moving and thinking of renting out the house I live in / own. Having read the issues people have had with non paying tenants, rent mounting up and no way to get them to leave etc I was wondering if I kept the gas & electric in my name, would it be a guard against a situation where a tenant would stay in the house without paying? If rent went into arrears I could just get the electric & gas cut off, ppl would hardly stay without heat or cooking facilities... is it a workable idea or is it against some law?

Caranica

Disconnecting utilities with tenants in situ is illegal. Also if they're not going to pay the rent they're hardly going to pay utilities so you'll be further out of pocket.

Firblog

If they stop paying the rent then I stop paying utilities, surely I cannot be expected to pay for the gas that they use, when they aren't paying rent? Can claim inability to pay... I wouldn't be disconnecting the utilities the ESB/Gas company would.

ted1

If they are in your name you are responsible. Put them in the tenants and change back when they live out.

If they don’t pay leave it to the utilities to chase

You can’t cut off their utilities.

the_syco

Firblog wrote: »

If rent went into arrears I could just get the electric & gas cut off, ppl would hardly stay without heat or cooking facilities... is it a workable idea or is it against some law?

Not workable, and fairly sure it's against the law.

Also, whilst trying to evict them, they could put a 2000w electric radiator in every room and leave them on 24/7 - you'd end up footing a substanial bill. If the bill is in the tenants name, the bill goes with them when they leave. If the bill is in your name, the bill goes to you.

km991148

If you put as much effort into finding good tenants as you do looking for creative ways to get them out then you will stand a better chance of achieving whatever business goals you have in this venture.


Plus like most things, when you try coming up with your own creative solutions, you will more than likely come a cropper by overlooking something important (like assuming responsibility for another persons fuel bills is probably gonna backfire as well as open you up to all sorts of legal risk if you start cutting people off).

Firblog

I don't know if I have explained this right

I'm talking about me paying the bills while tenants are in situ. I get a bill and pass it onto the tenants. If they stop paying the rent or the bills then I phone up the ESB / Gas company and say I'm not paying that last bill or any more bills so cut off supply. When they cut the supplies the tenants move out, I pay the bills again and everything is good.

I'd rather be caught for one/two months rent & bills than 12+ months rent.

endacl

Tenants have a right to choose their utility suppliers.

On this fact alone it’s a non starter.

Firblog

km991148 wrote: »

If you put as much effort into finding good tenants as you do looking for creative ways to get them out then you will stand a better chance of achieving whatever business goals you have in this venture.

The business goal is not to get shafted, the creative solution to get potential bad tenant out took a 1 second flash of inspiration / dumbassedness.

Firblog

endacl wrote: »

Tenants have a right to choose their utility suppliers.

On this fact alone it’s a non starter.

They can choose whatever supplier they want, just my name will be on the account..

They cannot choose the gas supplier, the whole estate is tied to calor gas.

km991148

Firblog wrote: »

The business goal is not to get shafted, the creative solution to get potential bad tenant out took a 1 second flash of inspiration / dumbassedness.

And your right to look at the risks before starting a business, but don't come up with mad stuff! Do things properly, get professionals where needed (agents and contracts etc), don't open yourself up to liabilities!

Treppen

Firblog wrote: »

I don't know if I have explained this right

I'm talking about me paying the bills while tenants are in situ. I get a bill and pass it onto the tenants. If they stop paying the rent or the bills then I phone up the ESB / Gas company and say I'm not paying that last bill or any more bills so cut off supply. When they cut the supplies the tenants move out, I pay the bills again and everything is good.

I'd rather be caught for one/two months rent & bills than 12+ months rent.

So your logic is if you stop paying the bills it'll make tenants, who refuse to pay rent, move out?

TheBoyConor

Business goal is not too get shafted?

Well with what you are proposing you are going to shaft yourself!

Its a crazy idea for the reasons already given.

You need to comply with the law and get potential tenants very very carefully.

If you are not willing to comply with the RTA law, then do not become a landlord. Simple.

km991148

Treppen wrote: »

So your logic is if you stop paying the bills it'll make tenants, who refuse to pay rent, move out?

Or force them to get the supply reconnected in their own name, leaving the ll with a bigger bill..

But I think enough people have had a go at the op now :pac:!

Good luck with it, but please don't do it this way!

Firblog

Treppen wrote: »

So your logic is if you stop paying the bills it'll make tenants, who refuse to pay rent, move out?

That's it in a nutshell

endacl

Firblog wrote: »

That's it in a nutshell

How many ways do you want to hear it can’t work, won’t work, and would leave you with bigger and more expensive problems in the long run?

elperello

There will also be the extra expense of disconnection and re-connection fees.

km991148

Firblog wrote: »

That's it in a nutshell

All that's gonna happen is you will screw up your own credit record/ ability to get supply while causing a minor inconvenience to the tenants (who just need to call up and claim they just moved in). It also takes months of unpaid bills to get a disconnection.

It probably opens you up to taxation issues as well as you are giving a benefit with the property and will also not look good in front of the prtb if they somehow became aware of this plan during any resolution process.

Caranica

Firblog wrote: »

If they stop paying the rent then I stop paying utilities, surely I cannot be expected to pay for the gas that they use, when they aren't paying rent? Can claim inability to pay... I wouldn't be disconnecting the utilities the ESB/Gas company would.

If the bills are in your name you are expected to pay them. In case you missed it any of the times you've been told in this thread, you cannot leave tenants without light and heat. Try it and you're looking at a mega fine, illegal eviction can be up to 20k.

km991148

Like, you'd probably be better doing a classic crap landlord move and just turning up and turfing the dodgy tenants stuff out on the street. Probably just as illegal, but much less inconvenience!!

(Not advocating this at all btw :pac:)

Firblog

Sorry folks the most logical reason not to do it was posted by endacl, tenants have a right to choose supplier, but that fails when there is no choice of supplier surely, as I'm not denying them the choice?

All other responses seem to think that I'd be open to huge bills being run up.. how? first sign of trouble, call the suppliers telling them I refuse to pay, what are they going to do? - cut off the supply. No power, no heat.

I could not be accused of cutting of the utilities, the proper people would have done it for non payment of bills. Ok be hit with reconnection fees etc, but month's deposit, month rent in advance, shouldn't be hit for too much lost rent hopefully.

I don't see any scenario where huge bills could be run up by the tenants.

jimmycrackcorm

Firblog wrote:

All other responses seem to think that I'd be open to huge bills being run up.. how? first sign of trouble, call the suppliers telling them I refuse to pay, what are they going to do? - cut off the supply. No power, no heat.

The tenants can just ring up the suppliers saying they've moved in to take over the supply.
You'd be still liable for the outstanding amounts.

Think about it. If you bought and moved into a house that had outstanding energy bills from the previous owner, do you think you wouldn't be able to get any energy suppliers?

Plus if they are tenants and you have to register with the RTB, your not going to get away with any shenanigans.

km991148

Firblog wrote: »

Sorry folks the most logical reason not to do it was posted by endacl, tenants have a right to choose supplier, but that fails when there is no choice of supplier surely, as I'm not denying them the choice?

All other responses seem to think that I'd be open to huge bills being run up.. how? first sign of trouble, call the suppliers telling them I refuse to pay, what are they going to do? - cut off the supply. No power, no heat.

I could not be accused of cutting of the utilities, the proper people would have done it for non payment of bills. Ok be hit with reconnection fees etc, but month's deposit, month rent in advance, shouldn't be hit for too much lost rent hopefully.

I don't see any scenario where huge bills could be run up by the tenants.

They won't just come the next day and disconnect you on the basis that you say you are not going to pay? It takes months. Plus if they think anyone is in the property, they cannot just cut power without good reason (many months of non payment or engagement counts) AND as I said above, even if the supply was stopped in your name (as they won't physically disconnect) then the tennant just gets it back in their name and now you have two problems.

If you say you won't pay, they will laugh at you and wonder wtf is going on (and keep billing you).

I'm sorry, there are many reasons why this is terrible, and if you are trying to defend or pursue this plan from this point on then you are probably not ready to take on the responsibility of being a landlord (for your own good as well as anyone who signs a lease with you).

1874

Firblog wrote: »

Hi,

I'm moving and thinking of renting out the house I live in / own. Having read the issues people have had with non paying tenants, rent mounting up and no way to get them to leave etc I was wondering if I kept the gas & electric in my name, would it be a guard against a situation where a tenant would stay in the house without paying? If rent went into arrears I could just get the electric & gas cut off, ppl would hardly stay without heat or cooking facilities... is it a workable idea or is it against some law?

No, its not a workable idea, it is frankly a very bad idea, it will be a waste of your time and money, you are trying to skirt around the RTA and the RTB, forget it, you dont get to skirt around it, imo sell up or keep the house for yourself.
If you go into arrears, listen to yourself, you're taking the mickey! ridiculous stuff.

Firblog wrote: »

If they stop paying the rent then I stop paying utilities, surely I cannot be expected to pay for the gas that they use, when they aren't paying rent? Can claim inability to pay... I wouldn't be disconnecting the utilities the ESB/Gas company would.

You might be expected, dont expect anything, or expect the unexpected, and dont quote Airplane, its not funny to do so.

Firblog wrote: »

That's it in a nutshell

Nuts alright

Firblog wrote: »

Sorry folks the most logical reason not to do it was posted by endacl, tenants have a right to choose supplier, but that fails when there is no choice of supplier surely, as I'm not denying them the choice?

All other responses seem to think that I'd be open to huge bills being run up.. how? first sign of trouble, call the suppliers telling them I refuse to pay, what are they going to do? - cut off the supply. No power, no heat.

I could not be accused of cutting of the utilities, the proper people would have done it for non payment of bills. Ok be hit with reconnection fees etc, but month's deposit, month rent in advance, shouldn't be hit for too much lost rent hopefully.

I don't see any scenario where huge bills could be run up by the tenants.

How? as someone said, bar heaters in every room,

Seriously, wont you listen, you might not be able to cut off the utilities, you certainly cant tell the providers you wont pay, you will and more for it, you are in a contract, there is no section with a get out of jail free card if your tenants decide to run up bills, end of story.
You are having a laugh, you think you can take something from the deposit for a bill you are contracted to pay??? that is in your name.


Read the RTA and read up on the RTB and all the landlord stories you can come across.
You remind me of a person who was letting rooms but not staying in the house himself, I just overheard this guy stating, he was dipping his toe into the rental market to see what ti was like, there is no dipping your toe into it, you are either not in it or you are in the deep end,thats al there is to it it, there are no half measures.

Firblog

Caranica wrote: »

If the bills are in your name you are expected to pay them. In case you missed it any of the times you've been told in this thread, you cannot leave tenants without light and heat. Try it and you're looking at a mega fine, illegal eviction can be up to 20k.

I wouldn't be disconnecting them, I'd just be refusing to pay the bills.

runawaybishop

Firblog wrote: »

Hi,

I'm moving and thinking of renting out the house I live in / own. Having read the issues people have had with non paying tenants, rent mounting up and no way to get them to leave etc I was wondering if I kept the gas & electric in my name, would it be a guard against a situation where a tenant would stay in the house without paying? If rent went into arrears I could just get the electric & gas cut off, ppl would hardly stay without heat or cooking facilities... is it a workable idea or is it against some law?

It's against the law and the tenant will take you to the cleaners. No way two ways about it.

An Ri rua

Firblog wrote: »

If they stop paying the rent then I stop paying utilities, surely I cannot be expected to pay for the gas that they use, when they aren't paying rent? Can claim inability to pay... I wouldn't be disconnecting the utilities the ESB/Gas company would.

This is genius stuff. Did you draft your post in 2005 when Boards was launched and only get to post it tonight? Or have you posted on Boards.ie in error? Maybe Boards.DRC or Boards.VictorianBritain?

1874

Firblog wrote: »

I wouldn't be disconnecting them, I'd just be refusing to pay the bills.

Oh, is that all, well doesnt sound very logical, you dont get to refuse to pay the bills, they will get the money off you in the end, somehow.
Nothing makes sense about what you are suggesting, you even used the word logical, everything you have said is illogical, you cant get away with this and are creating a situation that would be worse than just doing it the right way from the outset.

km991148

I feel I'm witnessing the start of some kind of legendary thread in the making

Gumbo

Firblog wrote: »

I wouldn't be disconnecting them, I'd just be refusing to pay the bills.

In which case, The utilities will continue to supply the property.
Have a look into the laws around utility disconnection.

Or, the tenant will just call them, tell them they’ve moved in and the bill will be in their name starting from scratch.

One of the most silly ideas I’ve heard for while, and that’s coming from a LL.

Caranica

Firblog wrote: »

I wouldn't be disconnecting them, I'd just be refusing to pay the bills.

You will still get a big bill via the RTB, tenants will claim they've paid you and lodge a case.

Sell sell sell, you're not cut out to be a landlord. Tenants have so much legal protection. And ultimately the keys to your 6 figure asset. .

I've plenty of nightmare stories to tell, paying off non paying tenants who did 5 figure damage just to get them out included. Selling was one of the happiest days of my life.

the_syco

Firblog wrote: »

If they stop paying the rent or the bills then I phone up the ESB / Gas company and say I'm not paying that last bill or any more bills so cut off supply.

And the ESB/Gas company will tell you the bill is in your name, you can pay for it, and they won't cut off the electricity.

Firblog wrote: »

I'd rather be caught for one/two months rent & bills than 12+ months rent.

You'll be caught with 12 months no rent, and 12 months of bills. And your name will be dragged through he newspapers as the scumbag landlord who tried to leave family and kids with no heating during winter.

Firblog wrote: »

I wouldn't be disconnecting them, I'd just be refusing to pay the bills.

THE

TENANTS

WON'T

CARE

But you'll be brought to court when the bills go high enough. No money to pay the bills? The utilities company will take the house.

=-=

There's no legal way of doing what you hope to do.

endacl

endacl wrote: »

How many ways do you want to hear it can’t work, won’t work, and would leave you with bigger and more expensive problems in the long run?

Oh.

A few more...

Bigfatmichael

An illegal eviction occurs where a landlord, through force, intimidation or any other means (such as cutting off utilities or changing locks), denies you access to the home you are renting or removes your belongings from the dwelling regardless of whether or not a valid notice of termination has been served.

The Residential Tenancies Act 2004 (as amended) outlines very precisely the conditions under which a tenancy may be terminated by a landlord and the steps and procedures that must be followed. A landlord can never take the law into his/her own hands.

Even if you are in rent arrears, your landlord cannot seize your belongings in order to force payment. There is a clear legal process that your landlord/agent must follow which includes giving you a written warning of the arrears and sending a copy to the Residential Tenancies Board (RTB). The RTB will then inform you of any advice available from Money Advice and Budgeting Service (MABS). If after 28 days the rent arrears have not been paid, the landlord can seek to end your tenancy by issuing a minimum of 28 days’ written notice of termination and, again, sending a copy to the RTB. If you have been impacted by COVID-19 and having difficulty paying the rent you may be able to avail of additional protection until January 2021. Please click here for more on this.

If you are threatened with an illegal eviction contact Threshold immediately.





What to do
If your landlord threatens or attempts to remove you from your property, you should contact your local Threshold office immediately. Remember, a landlord may not take the law into his/her own hands.
Contact the Gardaí immediately if someone is using force to remove you or your belongings from your home
Contact the Residential Tenancies Board (RTB) and inform them of the fact that you are being illegal evicted.
Inform your landlord that you have been in contact with the RTB, Threshold and the Gardaí
Take a sound or video recording of the illegal eviction if you can do so without putting yourself at risk. You should also take photographs.
In order to prepare for a possible RTB hearing you should keep a log of events, record vehicle number plates, incoming phone numbers, Garda names and numbers etc.
Make a list of any items you have been denied access to or that have been damaged or lost during the illegal eviction and keep any receipts for replacements
Keep a record of any other expenses incurred as a direct result of the eviction such as B&B or hotel costs.

Graham

endacl wrote: »

Oh.

A few more...

Was tempted to close the thread but now I'm kinda curious how many....

An Ri rua

You could set up hidden cameras in every room op. It is YOUR house after all. And your electricity and broadband.
Then it would be like Minority Report, you could predict that they were about to stop paying the rent and have a killswitch running on Hive, or some such contraption, and just leave those losers hatching their dirty plans in the dark. Like the rats they are.

endacl

Now we're getting places!

K.Flyer

Firblog wrote: »

I wouldn't be disconnecting them, I'd just be refusing to pay the bills.

You obviously don't know how utility services deal with people who don't pay their bills.
Your Bill, Your Debt, Your Credit Rating!
Nevermind the legal mess, as has already been mentioned, that you could walk yourself into via RTB.

Graham

Firblog wrote: »

Having read the issues people have had with non paying tenants, rent mounting up and no way to get them to leave etc I was wondering if I kept the gas & electric in my name, would it be a guard against a situation where a tenant would stay in the house without paying? If rent went into arrears I could just get the electric & gas cut off

OP, here's a quick summary.

At best, you're volunteering to be responsible for your tenants utility bills. You should be ok, they'll probably pay you for the utilities.

At worst, you're heading into illegal eviction territory. Cutting off utilities stopped being acceptable at around the same time as; sending in the heavies to collect overdue rent, or hiring goons to turf the tenants onto the kerb. Could be a very nicer earner for your ex-tenants though, unfortunately at your expense.

As plans go, it's not great.

ted1

Firblog wrote: »

I don't know if I have explained this right

I'm talking about me paying the bills while tenants are in situ. I get a bill and pass it onto the tenants. If they stop paying the rent or the bills then I phone up the ESB / Gas company and say I'm not paying that last bill or any more bills so cut off supply. When they cut the supplies the tenants move out, I pay the bills again and everything is good.

I'd rather be caught for one/two months rent & bills than 12+ months rent.

Utilities don’t cut off after 1 or 2 months.
To be honest. Sounds like being a landlord isn’t for you. Just sell the place.

Bigfatmichael

And what happens when they send you the money for the bills with a reference in their bank account for it and still withhold the rent.

What happens when they send you 20 documented emails and texts as evidence of power and gas been shut off.

paulieeye

I'm not sure what all the negative responses are for, OP I think its a great idea. It would give you full control on your tenants basic utilities they need to survive. Wait until its a cold snap then turn off the heat. Hopefully they will have a young family, no one would risk the health of their child so they probably just move into a hotel or something.

You need to protect yourself against them lighting a fire however, have you considered a sprinkler system?

km991148

paulieeye wrote: »

I'm not sure what all the negative responses are for, OP I think its a great idea. It would give you full control on your tenants basic utilities they need to survive. Wait until its a cold snap then turn off the heat. Hopefully they will have a young family, no one would risk the health of their child so they probably just move into a hotel or something.

You need to protect yourself against them lighting a fire however, have you considered a sprinkler system?

Well for that we do daily inspections where everything is doused with a watering can. If the place is kept quite damp then it will be hard to set on fire.



Seriously: I'm sorry OP, protecting your property is a serious and valid concern, but I think trying your best to find good tenants in the first place is the way to go and serves the best protection. Don't cheap out on that part of the process take time to find good people and minimise the chances of the worst case happening.

paulieeye

km991148 wrote: »

Well for that we do daily inspections where everything is doused with a watering can. If the place is kept quite damp then it will be hard to set on fire.

Make sure you give a daily 24hrs notice that there will be a visitation to comply with regulations

km991148

paulieeye wrote: »

Make sure you give a daily 24hrs notice that there will be a visitation to comply with regulations

Of course! I'm not a cowboy ffs

dancingqueen

Firblog wrote: »

That's it in a nutshell

It is against the law to cut off utilities/water/access to a tenant of a property. If you are going to be a landlord, do it properly. There are enough cowboys out there.

And yes, even if it's in your name.

You are also refusing them proof of address by putting bills in your own name. Not the smartest.

ted1

dancingqueen wrote: »

It is against the law to cut off utilities/water/access to a tenant of a property. If you are going to be a landlord, do it properly. There are enough cowboys out there.

And yes, even if it's in your name.

You are also refusing them proof of address by putting bills in your own name. Not the smartest.

If the bills are in his name. The tenant isn’t liable for them. I certainly wouldn’t pay a bill that’s addressed to someone else.

dancingqueen

ted1 wrote: »

If the bills are in his name. The tenant isn’t liable for them. I certainly wouldn’t pay a bill that’s addressed to someone else.

That is also a possibility but it would also go against their lease, it should have that all utilities are to be paid by the tenant mentioned. It could be a grey area though, if he won't let them have the bills in their own names, should it be taken to the PRTB. Either way, it's not the smartest idea!

ted1

dancingqueen wrote: »

That is also a possibility but it would also go against their lease, it should have that all utilities are to be paid by the tenant mentioned. It could be a grey area though, if he won't let them have the bills in their own names, should it be taken to the PRTB. Either way, it's not the smartest idea!

If the tenant was to hand over the money for the bills it’s be taxable including USC.

Claw Hammer

Firblog wrote: »

Sorry folks the most logical reason not to do it was posted by endacl, tenants have a right to choose supplier, but that fails when there is no choice of supplier surely, as I'm not denying them the choice?

All other responses seem to think that I'd be open to huge bills being run up.. how? first sign of trouble, call the suppliers telling them I refuse to pay, what are they going to do? - cut off the supply. No power, no heat.

I could not be accused of cutting of the utilities, the proper people would have done it for non payment of bills. Ok be hit with reconnection fees etc, but month's deposit, month rent in advance, shouldn't be hit for too much lost rent hopefully.

I don't see any scenario where huge bills could be run up by the tenants.

The energy regulator will not allow it, the RTB will not allow it and your clever dick schem will fail. If your tenants don't pay rent, the remedy is open a dispute with the RTB or sue them in court. It is specifically forbidden to cut of utilities as a means of pressurising tenants.

dancingqueen

ted1 wrote: »

If the tenant was to hand over the money for the bills it’s be taxable including USC.

not if the bills are addressed to someone else