Electricity prices with surge pricing in Texas

whomitconcerns

This is insane... Texans have enough problems at the moment. But reading this this morning takes the biscuit..

They can sign up to electricity providers that literally tie the rate you pay to the current demand... One guy has a 16k bill for the last 2 weeks as he was lucky enough not to be cut off..

Insane.. The suppliers say it encourages people to be careful how much they use.. Does this make any sense? Could they do it here?


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/20/us/texas-storm-electric-bills.html

Your Face

Shocking.

TheValeyard

Jesus that's absolutely mental.

MadYaker

That country is falling apart before our eyes

Mrmoe

That would meet some resistance here if implemented.

astrofool

Mrmoe wrote: »

That would meet some resistance here if implemented.

This is a plan that they chose to sign up for, they can get much cheaper electricity the rest of the time than neighbours on other plans, however, a residence signing up for this is beyond stupid, as it's more suited to companies who will plan production and capacity according to the price they can get electricity at.

The texans signed up for a fully deregulated electricity system, this is the cost of that.

(on the other hand, it's quite likely that the person complaining has saved more than the equivalent cost over their lifetime, but obviously not in one big hit)

Darc19

Similar is available to businesses here. You pay pass through charge, standing charge, a facility fee and then the wholesale electricity charge.

In the last year the wholesale electricity charge has been from under 7c to just under 10c a unit. Passthrough charge is about 7c and facility fee (billing company) is 1c-2c

Hyperbollix

America is a great window into what happens when a civilized society is left entirely to fend for itself against corporate power and relentless de-regulation.

Claw Hammer

whomitconcerns wrote: »

This is insane... Texans have enough problems at the moment. But reading this this morning takes the biscuit..

They can sign up to electricity providers that literally tie the rate you pay to the current demand... One guy has a 16k bill for the last 2 weeks as he was lucky enough not to be cut off..

Insane.. The suppliers say it encourages people to be careful how much they use.. Does this make any sense? Could they do it here?


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/20/us/texas-storm-electric-bills.html

That guy probably had lights on all over the place, air conditioning, heating TV fridges freezers running round the clock. If he wasn't so wasteful it wouldn't be as bad.

It's hilarious seeing what happens with no regulation. Other people were cut off by their suppliers and told to find someone else to sell them electricity.

Zebra3

Mrmoe wrote: »

That would meet some resistance here if implemented.

Unsure if that's a pun or not.

steddyeddy

whomitconcerns wrote: »

This is insane... Texans have enough problems at the moment. But reading this this morning takes the biscuit..

They can sign up to electricity providers that literally tie the rate you pay to the current demand... One guy has a 16k bill for the last 2 weeks as he was lucky enough not to be cut off..

Insane.. The suppliers say it encourages people to be careful how much they use.. Does this make any sense? Could they do it here?


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/20/us/texas-storm-electric-bills.html

Vote republican for decades and this is what you get. All of the poorest states in the US vote republican. Darwin awards, not sympathy are what's needed.

Harry Palmr

This sort of thing needs a circuit breaker in times of extremis.

Infrastructure is the next great American disaster.

SteM

Would never happen here. They couldn't even implement basic water charges here without certain sections of society going into meltdown.

Sleeper12

Well, they have made America great again. That's for sure

Rodney Bathgate

steddyeddy wrote: »

Vote republican for decades and this is what you get. All of the poorest states in the US vote republican. Darwin awards, not sympathy are what's needed.

Pretty judgmental post. Sickening victim blaming.

Smee_Again

Vote Republican, get screwed over and blame the Dem. It’s the way the system works.

RandomViewer

Claw Hammer wrote: »

That guy probably had lights on all over the place, air conditioning, heating TV fridges freezers running round the clock. If he wasn't so wasteful it wouldn't be as bad.

Do you turn your freezer off a lot?

Ger Roe

SteM wrote: »

Would never happen here. They couldn't even implement basic water charges here without certain sections of society going into meltdown.

The example of what is currently happening in Texas is why the introduction of water charges failed. No safeguards were offered to ensure that the badly implemented process wasn't going to result in a situation where commercially motivated forces would be the only future consideration. Big Phil tried to enforce the measures and failed, some persuasion and assurance would have worked a lot better.

The Gov didn't have the foresight to get people on board first by trying to address their future concerns. They just ran into it feet first following an EU directive to get it done asap.

People were afraid of being sold out to be manipulated by market forces and that is what is now happening in Texas - a screwed up system that has more focus on generating profit than voltage.

MrMusician18

SteM wrote: »

Would never happen here. They couldn't even implement basic water charges here without certain sections of society going into meltdown.

If this kind of demand pricing model was every introduced here it would almost certainly come with unit price cap for domestic users. Simply to avoid this.

Zebra3

SteM wrote: »

Would never happen here. They couldn't even implement basic water charges here without certain sections of society going into meltdown.

Correct, as it was brought in to pay for the failure of banks.

steddyeddy

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Pretty judgmental post. Sickening victim blaming.

Yes I am blaming people who voting for a senator that fled the country through the last crisis. I worked in the US and the closest thing to a republican voter is a DUP voter. They vote based on not liking Democrats.

steddyeddy

steddyeddy wrote: »

Vote republican for decades and this is what you get. All of the poorest states in the US vote republican. Darwin awards, not sympathy are what's needed.

And what of the poorest,that didnt vote that way.....to be simply fcuked under the bus for political purposes


This is every bit as immoral.as sh1te trump used pull as regards delaying relief....its always the poor,whom.suffer the most


People should be looked after,irregardless of.their political persuasion

EmmetSpiceland

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And what of the poorest,that didnt vote that way.....to be simply fcuked under the bus for political purposes

This is every bit as immoral.as sh1te trump used pull as regards delaying relief....its always the poor,whom.suffer the most

People should be looked after,irregardless of.their political persuasion

Sounds downright unAmerican.

ressem

astrofool wrote: »

This is a plan that they chose to sign up for, they can get much cheaper electricity the rest of the time than neighbours on other plans, however, a residence signing up for this is beyond stupid, as it's more suited to companies who will plan production and capacity according to the price they can get electricity at.

The texans signed up for a fully deregulated electricity system, this is the cost of that.

(on the other hand, it's quite likely that the person complaining has saved more than the equivalent cost over their lifetime, but obviously not in one big hit)

According to the NPR report, on some retail electricity plans, after the 12 month fixed rate signup rate ends, US retail customers may be auto-switched to these wholesale plans.
Per KWh rate went from $0.12 to as high as $9.
https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-winter-storms-2021/2021/02/21/969912613/after-days-of-mass-outages-some-texas-residents-now-face-huge-electric-bills

Similar happened in Pennsylvania in 2014, it's not exclusive to Texas. US states that prevent these plans from being sold to householders are the rare case.

Das Reich

Hyperbollix wrote: »

America is a great window into what happens when a civilized society is left entirely to fend for itself against corporate power and relentless de-regulation.

Don't forget the demographic shift.

steddyeddy wrote: »

Vote republican for decades and this is what you get. All of the poorest states in the US vote republican. Darwin awards, not sympathy are what's needed.

From what I had seen California is the state with the biggest amount of homeless.

km991148

Zebra3 wrote: »

Unsure if that's a pun or not.

In these current times it's good to check!

steddyeddy

Das Reich wrote: »

Don't forget the demographic shift.



From what I had seen California is the state with the biggest amount of homeless.

True but California is the outlier. All of the poorest states in America, with the lowest quality of life vote republican.

Guy:Incognito

Das Reich wrote: »

From what I had seen California is the state with the biggest amount of homeless.

Is that by percentage of population or pure number of homeless people? Cos it's the state with the biggest population by about 11m (next being Texas)

punisher5112

Be cheaper to run a genie

Yurt2

Democratic states preside over just as much reflexive deregulation. People forget Bill Clinton was the man that put the bullet in "big-government" (shorthand for the state having a role in reigning in the excesses of the market and rentierism) and set loose the dogs of big-finance to dominate almost every aspect of the economy.

America is crocked because both parties more or less subscribe to the same empty economic playbook. Perhaps Bernie would have made a stab at stopping some of the madness, but Sleepy Joe will just be tinkering around the edges of a nation and society in serious decline.

Yurt2

Das Reich wrote: »

From what I had seen California is the state with the biggest amount of homeless.

Outrageously, some states (both Democratic and Republican leaning) actually bus homeless people to places like California and Washington State. Got a homelessness issue? Send them West.

punisher5112

Yurt! wrote: »

Outrageously, some states (both Democratic and Republican leaning) actually bus homeless people to places like California and Washington State. Got a homelessness issue? Send them West.

We could do that here, much cheaper housing on Midlands or west. Put in the infrastructure and housing, much more bang for the buck....

Yurt2

punisher5112 wrote: »

We could do that here, much cheaper housing on Midlands or west. Put in the infrastructure and housing, much more bang for the buck....

Not sure if you're actually serious.

punisher5112

Yurt! wrote: »

Not sure if you're actually serious.

No sure give them all 500 to a mill apartments or houses, that sounds about right, it's what's happening now...
The inner city homeless charity doing very well they 4 vans now 15, 17, 20, 21 regs

Yurt2

punisher5112 wrote: »

No sure give them all 500 to a mill apartments or houses, that sounds about right, it's what's happening now...
The inner city homeless charity doing very well they 4 vans now 15, 17, 20, 21 regs

OK...

Fr Tod Umptious

steddyeddy wrote: »

Vote republican for decades and this is what you get. All of the poorest states in the US vote republican. Darwin awards, not sympathy are what's needed.

People are leaving California, a solidly blue state, in their droves for Texas.

There is a poster here, mainly in the politics threads, that lives in Texas.

He/she is very good at articulating what life is really like on the ground in Texas and in American politics in general.

Far more realistic than the usual hyperbole you get around here from people who have never been to the US in their lives.

Hopefully they will chime in on this one.

Guy:Incognito

Ted doesnt seem so sure these days though.....

Cienciano

The way American politics works, seems like companies just donate to whoever is in power to change the law in their favor. It's fúcking mental. People get fúck all holidays and have very little social protection. If you question anything you're called a communist. Strange country

Zebra3

Cienciano wrote: »

The way American politics works, seems like companies just donate to whoever is in power to change the law in their favor. It's fúcking mental. People get fúck all holidays and have very little social protection. If you question anything you're called a communist. Strange country

And politicians can't proclaim their Christianity fast enough, yet they despise the poor, and are proud of it.

It's long been in decline and the final collapse will be spectacular.

With the amount of weapons in the country, it'll be more Yugoslavia than Berlin Wall.

Capt'n Midnight

Zebra3 wrote: »

Unsure if that's a pun or not.

Is that a series question given the current issue ?

Capt'n Midnight

Why a Predictable Cold Snap Crippled the Texas Power Grid

State health officials have linked more than two dozen deaths to the power crisis. Some died from hypothermia or possible carbon monoxide poisoning caused by portable generators running in basements and garages without enough ventilation. Officials say they suspect the death count will rise as more bodies are discovered.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-weather-texas-power-insight/why-a-predictable-cold-snap-crippled-the-texas-power-grid-idUKKBN2AL00N?edition-redirect=uk

Nuclear plant offline because of frozen pipes. Gas plants off line because no gas. Wind was also affected.


If Texas had been connected elsewhere it cold have imported power, but wouldn't have have needed to because winterised plant up to grid spec would have kept going.



This wasn't a freak weather event and a major outage was barely averted.

It could have been much, much worse.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Claw Hammer wrote: »

That guy probably had lights on all over the place, air conditioning, heating TV fridges freezers running round the clock. If he wasn't so wasteful it wouldn't be as bad.

He'd need to have had a field of weed plants growing in a warehouse to rack up that kind of bill.

Tell me how

Most significant relevance in to last weeks events in Texas was how Republicans and their media wing used it to try to abort the Green New Deal before it has even been implemented.
Read an article on Bill Gates and his view on the climate issue earlier today and when 50% of America is so steadfast against modifying the use of fossil fuels, it seems impossible that they are going to have the collective will to make the changes required.

When you put some of the key points from the week together, it reads like some dystopian nightmare.

Ted Cruz, the US Senator and his wife, the Managing Director of Goldman Sachs, took off to Mexico for 4 days when their house lost power. Ted previously voted against Federal aid for victims of hurricane Sandy but had asked Biden to provide this for Texas before he left. Some people who remained in Texas had to melt snow for house water and if they had power, were at risk of being on the hook for bills such as above. Meanwhile, the guy Cruz beat in his last election, Beto O'Rourke, organised 750K welfare calls and gave guidance to people in need and the Liberal 'Bogeylady' for most Republicans, AOC, initiated a charity drive which has just collectively raised $5M for Texan charities.

But in the next election cycle, the electorate will once again be told that Liberals care more about immigrants than they do Americans and what is needed is a Republican who understands the hardship of the common man to fight for the people in Washington. As AOC was in Texas on Saturday, two prominent Republican congress people, Lauren Boebert and Matt Gaetz were attending a $10,600/couple fundraiser for a Republican senator at Mar-A-Lago.

I bet that even now, some Texans would still prefer a system where a catastrophe can force such bills on people just so that it meant a government body had no say on how their electricity was supplied to them.

Randle P. McMurphy

Not an ounce of sympathy for any of them in that state. They are paying the price for ignorance and stupidity. You reap what you sow.

AndyBoBandy

If I charge my electric car from empty to full at home in Ireland, it costs me about €4.25, and I'd get about 400km of range...

If I was in Texas last week and charged the same car at $9/kWh, it would cost me $450 to fill it up from empty!! (the typical cost to fill it should have been about $5-$7 in Texas 3 weeks ago).

km991148

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

He'd need to have had a field of weed plants growing in a warehouse to rack up that kind of bill.

Not anymore, these days the lights are very efficient.

Bitcoin mining is now becoming the accepted term for high electric use!

jester77

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

If I charge my electric car from empty to full at home in Ireland, it costs me about €4.25, and I'd get about 400km of range...

If I was in Texas last week and charged the same car at $9/kWh, it would cost me $450 to fill it up from empty!! (the typical cost to fill it should have been about $5-$7 in Texas 3 weeks ago).

Doing the maths, your kWh price is €0.085. Is electricity really that cheap in Ireland :eek:

Smee_Again

jester77 wrote: »

Doing the maths, your kWh price is €0.085. Is electricity really that cheap in Ireland :eek:

My day rate including VAT is €0.1567 and the night rate is €0.751.

ancapailldorcha

Yurt! wrote: »

Democratic states preside over just as much reflexive deregulation. People forget Bill Clinton was the man that put the bullet in "big-government" (shorthand for the state having a role in reigning in the excesses of the market and rentierism) and set loose the dogs of big-finance to dominate almost every aspect of the economy.

America is crocked because both parties more or less subscribe to the same empty economic playbook. Perhaps Bernie would have made a stab at stopping some of the madness, but Sleepy Joe will just be tinkering around the edges of a nation and society in serious decline.

It's not remotely both sides despite the Trumpsters constantly playing this card. One party is at least democratic, the other supported a coup. At least now, there's a president who can confidently say that Nazis and white supremacists beloved by the previous president are bad.

steddyeddy

Cienciano wrote: »

The way American politics works, seems like companies just donate to whoever is in power to change the law in their favor. It's fúcking mental. People get fúck all holidays and have very little social protection. If you question anything you're called a communist. Strange country

Yes and politicians like Mitch Connell rush to block legislation that would put a limit on corporate donors and make it possible to know who funds what.

These states continually elect people that act against their best interest but never learn despite the consequences. I do feel sorry for those who didn't vote for Trump's party but not an once for those who didn't.